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All things work together for the good of those who love God.
Just remember when people attack you, slander you, and otherwise abuse you that all things work together for the good of those who love God. Keep your head up, and keep your eyes on Jesus Christ the prize, for He is the author and finisher of your faith, not the bullies. I will quote the relevent Scripture below.
Romans 8:28: And we know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to His purpose.
Those who do not walk in a pack are not necessarily lost- they just trust their sense of direction more than the 2000year old map that constantly contradicts itself and doesn't seem to be possible. Some go off and make their own, some get another, newer crazy map. But most of the people who think they are following the 2000year-old map are following one of the people who went off and made their own.
Not necessarily. You can make your own map... by mapping. Which is, in this comparison, what scientists are doing. To add to the conceit, the mappers found an underwater volcano in their mapping, which is not on the old map- so the old-map-followers refuse to believe it is there. There will be, of course, those who make up a crazily wrong map on their own.
All maps have errors. Let's call the map an individual's view of the world, instead of a scripture.
Anything can be mapped- and it's not geography, it's cartography.
Salvation? From what? Sin? Hell?
Sin: there is no original sin, only a responsobility to take care of the environment (social, political, physical...) you are in- and any wrongs against this environment must be righted/paid for.
Hell: complex messy matter- I think you probably don't have to worry about this~ you can only go to a hell if you intend to somehow.
It's pointless to argue this if you refuse to see God then nothing I say will change your mind. You have rejected him in your heart. All I said was that those who lose God may find him again in your case I hope you do. I hope you put all this nonsense behind you and turn to The Lord. But ultimately you must decide to do that.
I consider myself very open minded about religion- by your statement, more open minded than you. I subscribe to a dozen- including Wicca, Shinto, Hinduism, Norse paganism, Buddhism, Taoism, Celtic Paganism, Greek/Roman paganism, Egyptian paganism, Aztec paganism... the list tends to go on as I research more due to my obsession with culture. But the Abrahamic religions are not as interesting, and believe their god is perfect, which I find a little pretentious. Omnibenevolent yet sends disbelievers to hell, all knowing yet makes mistakes, omnipotent yet rules an imperfect and cruel kingdom. I just don't buy it.
Why would a perfect god make a world where every day is a fight for survival, except for a select few? Why would a god create creatures so beautiful and friendly, then make more creatures, equally beautiful, designed to prey on them and rip them apart while still alive? Why would a god create the bubonic plague?
I don't mind the idea of higher beings that care little for humans, or forces of nature to be revered passing cruel judgements. As long as their followers don't run around saying they love and care for humans.
This is why I find the Abrahamic religions hypocritical.
God is the father we are his children like all parents he cannot just give us what we need then we would never learn to survive he can only give us what we need to learn to survive, Like all parents he must punish us when we do wrong, and like all parents he must teach us the most important lesson life isn't fare the strong prosper the weak die. The world is a struggle to survive because that struggle makes us strong you cannot appreciate the good if you do not know the bad.
According to creationists, he/she/it made life- and made it unfair.
Why would he want us to be strong? Why would he even bother? If he made everything then it makes everything at every point in time- and decided events like the holocaust, the Rwandan genocide, the Romanov murders, brutal executions... everything. That's not at all benevolent- there are non-traumatisingly-violent ways to make people strong, and I'm sure an all powerful god could find them.
B) the holocaust, Rwandan Genocide, Romanov murders etc. where perpetrated by people not by God. I was referring to desiesses we have been ravaged by many different desiesses in our past. Many most of us are now immune to or have developed cures and/or vaccines to. So we are now in that sense stronger.
Yes I subscribe the theory of intelligent design also called divine intervention. Which states that the Big Bang and evolution did happen and that they were both caused by God.
This is prosperity preaching if I've ever read it. All things don't work for the good of those who 'love God'. I should know. I'm not even certain he exists... if he does, he is the most indifferent person of all time. And that's me being nice.
Wrong. It is not prosperity preaching to quote God's word. God can bring something good out of even the worst situations is what I am saying. Do not pretend to know a religion that you are not even a member of. That is like saying that Republicants know everything about the Democrat party.
I don't pretend to know. I do know. I've known for a little less than two decades now, whenever I was old enough to understand at least. I come from a Christian upbringing... why else do you think I used the term 'prosperity preaching'? Also, it is fallacious to assume I would know nothing of a religion simply because I do not subscribe to its' belief system. I have argued with many atheists who know far more about Christianity than most of those who profess a faith in the Christ figure. They study other religions because it interests them, and probably amused at many of the contradictions they find.
So do not presume to tell me my business when you know nothing of me. Now sober up before you even try to argue again.
Wrong. You clearly know nothing about CHRISTianity if you call quoting the Bible "prosperity preaching". It sounds like your issues is with God and the Bible, not me.
It wasn't quoting the bible that came across as 'prosperity' preaching to me. It's also a bit contradictory since a lot of Christians actually suffer and die. Good things happen to evil men, and bad things happen to those who try to live good lives (of course, this is inherently pointless as man has an evil nature). So don't sell me on a lie.
Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith. I know I am a bitch, but it is because I care too damn much about too damn much. I would kill to be like you or Hellno and be one cool dude or in my case, dudette.
No, you wouldn't. And I wouldn't curse anyone to be like me. It's bad enough that I believe I'm losing my sanity. There are times I wish I could just shut my brain off for half an hour or so. I always feel like I'm thinking about or rehearsing something and it really annoys me that I can't stop. I am unable to focus my efforts in any productive way until it's almost too late to do shit about it. Who the hell would want to be me? Only those ignorant of who I really am.
You would be trapped in an endless cycle of despair and pointlessness. You would become someone who will never be noticed nor missed, outside of family. You would find yourself in a culture you can never fit into, and as a result have no possible hope of survival.
And you wouldn't be able to end it all because you refuse to give up, no matter what, just to spite the world that spawned you. So you would more than likely die a horrible death with no honor. I am not to be admired, because I am corrupt and impure. There are parts of me that want to revel in the destruction of others, though I know I will never act on those impulses out of cowardice or inconvenience.
I would rather be simpler and live a normal life with a stable income than be me. At least I would be happy.
As for being 'one of the smartest' that goes without saying. I have Asperger's. Naturally I'm going to be a bit smarter than the average joe. Not proud of it but that's what my stepdad's friend says is the case, and he would know.
Fair enough. I still admire your intellect even if you hate me, and I more than know what it is like to want to be normal for one damn day. Than again, maybe not, because it would suck to know peace and return to Hell. I just do not feel like being "disabled". I do not feel like having autism, OCD, PTSD, and bipolar all at once. I feel like a complete failure and I have been running from myself my whole life. I want to be happy, gosh darn it. Thank you for listening. :'(
Very, very true. As the years go by, it becomes more and more difficult to endure this life and this society. I pretty much live by this scripture, even though I know I might lose my mind in the end.
Nothing happens without God's prior knowledge. He put the world and time into motion knowing full well that tornado X would occur. He couldve put time into motion creating a future where tornado X DOESNT happen but everything else is still the same, but he didnt. Therfore he intended it to occur
Nope. God has inherent omniscience. Meaning he knows everything he knows and he has the ability to obtain the knowledge of what he doesnt. Meaning that it occured without his prior knowledge. He put the world in motion with his hopes in mind. Not completely planned out. Learned this from OddHannah. Try again my friend.
Omniscience means he knows everything there is to know about everything from every perspecitve in every time and context. Im sorry buy OddHannah is an airhead. God knew everything that would ever happen in the entire timeline of the existence of everything. He also put it all into motion. Therfore whatever occurs is his will for it to be so.
You could also look at it on the flip side. God didnt ever attempt to intervine and save anyone who ever died in a natural disaster or tragedy EVER therfore we can interpret that it is his will that these people died anyways.
Either these two things or he ISNT actually omipotent or omniscient. In which case, he isnt God.
And of course it all comes down to the fact that this argument is absolutely pointless because most likely god doesnt even exist so its like debating the color of a unicorn.
God has inherent omniscience. Meaning he know everything he knows. If he wants to obtain something he can. OddHannah is a smart girl. People just dont want to listen. Inherent omniscience is different from plain old omniscience. Same for omnipotence. Intrinsic omnipotence is what God has. Intrinsic omnipotence and inherent omniscience are the qualities of God. He didnt know everything would happen the way it does now. Primarily to preserve free will.
Either these two things or he ISNT actually omipotent or omniscient. In which case, he isnt God.
I believe OddHannah explained it quite well to me. It didnt bring me into the faith but it makes sense.
Also you cant really say he isn't "God". That is just a name for him. Yahweh may be his name. We really don't know. Also you can't say he isn't a god.
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science :the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 :a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship ; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler
This is from merriam webster. You cannot say God isn't God. Thats like saying Lizzie isn't Lizzie (felt a little awkward saying that) or AveSatanas isn't AveSatanas. "God" is a title or a name we give him and one he is supposed to be fine with being called. He has many names. You can't say he isn't God and you can't say he isn't a god. Regardless of what God chooses to do he is still a god.
God didnt ever attempt to intervine and save anyone who ever died in a natural disaster or tragedy EVER therfore we can interpret that it is his will that these people died anyways.
No it's not. He didn't intend for this to happen. Can you prove he did?
: involved in the constitution or essential character of something : belonging by nature or habit : intrinsic
Omniscience-
: having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2
: possessed of universal or complete knowledge
All "inherent omniscience" means is exactly what ive been saying this whole time. Omniscience is infinite awareness, understanding, and insight of all of the knowledge of the universe. Whether or not its inherent is irrelivant and certainly doesnt alter the definition of omniscience in any way. Your entire argument is based upon a bunk, made up definition and im only concerned with what words actually mean. sorry
OddHannah is a smart girl. People just dont want to listen
Ever wonder WHY? Because she isnt so smart. She just provides convincing misinformation.
This is from merriam webster. You cannot say God isn't God.
That was a stupid argument. im sorry but its quite obvious what i meant by what i said. What i meant was that he shouldnt be considered A God. And why is he called GOD? because he's A GOD. So if he ceases to be A GOD he should also no longer be considered GOD or at least addressed as such.
No it's not. He didn't intend for this to happen. Can you prove he did?
Dictionary definitions don't work in this instance. Look up both words together like I provided for you. I told you what I means. Word play shall not penetrate my defenses this time.
So trying to just take words apart in hopes of qualifying your argument won't work. I am telling yiu the definition for inherent omniscience is exactly what I told you and what I provided above.
Whether or not its inherent is irrelivant and certainly doesnt alter the definition of omniscience in any way. Your entire argument is based upon a bunk, made up definition and im only concerned with what words actually mean. sorry
Sorry but you are truly wrong here. You misunderstood critically. My argument is in fact still standing. Talking down my argument wont work either.
Ever wonder WHY? Because she isnt so smart. She just provides convincing misinformation.
No thats just how people are. People dont listen.
That was a stupid argument. im sorry but its quite obvious what i meant by what i said. What i meant was that he shouldnt be considered A God.
So my argument was stupid but I was specific. You weren't. I would check your own argument. You weren't speciric enough to even qualify your argument. My argument is perfectly sound and in tact. He still is a God regardless of what you say. Which I already said. You didn't even read my argument did you?
And why is he called GOD? because he's A GOD. So if he ceases to be A GOD he should also no longer be considered GOD or at least addressed as such.
That makes no sense. Explain how God isn't a god or cannot be a god if he isnt omniscient or omnipotent but created all this. Please logically explain that. Zeus is considered a God. Thor is considered a God. I dont think either one of them were omnipotent or omniscient. So please explain to mrle how God isnt.
My first argument above
You argument is flawed. You failed. Playing with words wont work. I can see right through this. Even if you boosted your diction and syntax or hightened your literary or rhetorical skills it wouldn't change anything. You missed my points that came from the girl who you deem as an "airhead".
It does not make sense to know everything that it wants to know: to not know X intentionally, then one must know X to be able to not know it. Moreover, a being that knows everything cannot not know everything; it is a logical contradiction.
However, His omnipotence cannot do the logically impossible. He cannot make a square circle or a married bachelor; He cannot make Himself non-God or non-maximally-great or non-omnipotent or non-omniscient. That is a logical contradiction. And if He could do the logically impossible, then it is not illogical to assume that God knows everything and does not know everything at the same time. So for one point: it is illogical to say that God does not know everything, while being omniscient.
For another point: it says in the Bible that God knows everything, which means that He cannot not know something (ie choose which things He knows).
Yes, bad things do frequently happen in this world. And I'm not totally against the argument, which you seem to be suggesting here, that God plans nasty events on purpose for some stated end. Yes, God probably did plan things like holocausts of history and the ignorance that spread during the dark ages. It's my speculation that God allowed this to happen intentionally to teach mankind what is possible in this universe if we subscribe to different beliefs and philosophies. Some ways of living are simply more destructive, more outrageous than others ( like the flat-out rejection of knowledge or the practice of slavery ) and God will respond to these outrages through pain and destruction ( the Black Death; the incredible loss of life during the Civil War ).
It's my view that God is limited in what he can do, and in a universe like ours moral dilemmas will constantly be encountered. To put it simply, God kills what threatens intelligent life! That is a policy he will always follow.
But hey, we eat other living things to survive; our parents must make important sacrifices to raise us. That's life in our universe! It's an inescapable situation on our planet. If any of us want to live we have to eat--and that requires that something dies. ( But hey, I don't see people choosing suicide over this moral dilemma--no, people want more and more! )
AveSatanas, what I find hypocritical about your hatred of this God is that you're a satanist--and scripturally Satan isn't a kind fellow!
You, if anbody, should be defending the cruelty of God! That's the image you respect the most, worship! Hypocrisy!
Now I have no admiration for a cruel God either, but I believe it is trying to construct a more heavenly place on planet Earth, and that is why I want to work in its favor. In my view God is educating us about how bad things really can get for us and that simultaneously serves as an example as to why we should strive for Heaven! I will absolutely work for God if this is his intended aim. Unequivocally!
Yes, bad things do frequently happen in this world. And I'm not totally against the argument, which you seem to be suggesting here, that God plans nasty events on purpose for some stated end. Yes, God probably did plan things like holocausts of history and the ignorance that spread during the dark ages.
So you admit he is not all good?
It's my speculation that God allowed this to happen intentionally to teach mankind what is possible in this universe if we subscribe to different beliefs and philosophies.
Thus reinforcing the fact that he's a jealous prick. "if you believe the wrong shit ill destroy you" what an asshole. And thats really stupid too because when something bad happens theres always a natural explaination for why it happened, so if god was trying to get people to notice him it doesnt work if the disaster occurs naturally.
Some ways of living are simply more destructive, more outrageous than others ( like the flat-out rejection of knowledge or the practice of slavery ) and God will respond to these outrages through pain and destruction ( the Black Death; the incredible loss of life during the Civil War ).
1) Okay so since some ways of living are distructive, god responds to them with destruction...not teaching and guidance no no that would be productive. instead he sets us back even farther. Your God is an absolute moron as well as a prick.
2) You see it's funny. Because god CONDONES slavery. So god commands slavery, then we do slavery, then he punishes us for doing slavery with more destruction? MAKES SENSE.
3) as for the rejection of knowledge....the catholic church and christianity kept science down and killed countless intellectuals who tried to GIVE us knowledge and they still teach people not to question anything about God. They feed off ignorance.
It's my view that God is limited in what he can do, and in a universe like ours moral dilemmas will constantly be encountered. To put it simply, God kills what threatens intelligent life! That is a policy he will always follow.
So he kills intelligent life to save intelligent life that he created? He created the world knowing that everything that demanded punishment would happen...so how can he punish something he caused to occur? And wouldnt you say that genocide and slavery are threatening to intelligent life? God condones them and carries them out himself! Hes killing intelligent life! Thousands of years ago disease almost whiped humanity off the face of the earth! and according to you that was GODs doing. So he isnt helping, hes making things far worse!
But hey, we eat other living things to survive; our parents must make important sacrifices to raise us. That's life in our universe! It's an inescapable situation on our planet. If any of us want to live we have to eat--and that requires that something dies. ( But hey, I don't see people choosing suicide over this moral dilemma--no, people want more and more! )
A system that god apparently put into place...
AveSatanas, what I find hypocritical about your hatred of this God is that you're a satanist--and scripturally Satan isn't a kind fellow!
I dont actually believe satan exists and surely you must know that Satan isnt only found in your bible correct? Satanism is independent from christianty. Go google it sometime. And anyways first and foremost im an atheist, satanism is only my philosophy. And it should be noted that i dont hate god and that certainly isnt the reason i dont believe in him. I just find that the god that you people propogate to be real is the most abhorrent character ever! Vindictive, cruel, idiotic, blind, jealous, ect. And it just blows my mind that anyone can actually think that this god is intelligent and loving. So sure, IF such a god exists then yeah, i would hate him. And did you know that Satan means TRUTH in sanskrit? The language it originated from? Thats what i "worship". Truth. Knowledge. Humanity. These are what Satan symbolizes.
You, if anbody, should be defending the cruelty of God! That's the image you respect the most, worship! Hypocrisy!
See above. i dont think either of them are real. And sorry, i have MORALS. Thats why i dont defend your asshat of a god. And what you dont get is that Satan isnt even really bad. He kills 10 people in the entire bible. God kills somewhere around 2 million give or take including animals. And Satan only did so with God's permission! So if anyone is the bad guy here it isnt Satan. I for one would respect the guy who stood up to your bully of a god more than the bully himself.
Now I have no admiration for a cruel God either, but I believe it is trying to construct a more heavenly place on planet Earth, and that is why I want to work in its favor
More heavenly because the whole human race will be whipped out. He's destroying the world, thats counter productive and idiotic.
In my view God is educating us about how bad things really can get for us and that simultaneously serves as an example as to why we should strive for Heaven!
Or he doesnt exist and these things are just products of nature and people.
I will absolutely work for God if this is his intended aim. Unequivocally!
AveSatanas, to me God is like a human being, with one exception. God is selfish--check. God demands loyalty--check. God kills and decimates--check. God rewards those who are loyal to him--check. God is very, very powerful--big fat check.
What you want, Ave, is a God that considers himself your equal. God is the universe, your're a tiny little piece. You ain't getting it. Welcome to the truth every human in every part of the world must deal with ( including me, who has had somewhat of a difficult life. Definitely not the worst though. ).
As to your statement on slavery, it was arrogant, egomaniacal people that condoned slavery. God probably didn't do anything to stop it when it was beginning ( and I agree with you that this makes God somewhat culpable; but I don't subscribe to the idea that God is perfect, no more than you are or I am. ), but he definitely allowed Bible writers to experience it hands on ( seeing that so many of them defended it ). The Hebrew, who were onced enslaved by Egyptians, didn't seem to learn from that experience and continued to justify the practice of slavery, and so, in return, God had them enslaved at several times throughout their history as a reward. Only over the last centuries has mankind finally understood that slavery is wrong because it encourages notions of human inequality . . . . Wherever those notions continue, God will always take the liberty to make such communities feel petty and vulnerable when possible.
Yes, God is a jerk. There's something to learn from that.
The way we treat others is the way we should expect God to treat us. Communities that treat others kindly and lovingly will get such treatment.
Communities that don't--they should expect hell on Earth. Hell on Earth. Yes. God can be mean.
Welcome to life in this universe . . . now pick your pain. Or select genuine compassion and love.
