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Debate Info

7
9
Americans support selected ter Americans do not support any
Debate Score:16
Arguments:17
Total Votes:16
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 Americans support selected ter (7)
 
 Americans do not support any (9)

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Americans have 'double standards' on terrorism.

Most Americans not only condemn Islamic terrorism, but, as a Nation are in the vanguard in the fight against it's spread and those who perpetrate the endless slaughter of civilians worldwide. However, Americans supported and financed Irish terrorists who used the 10s of millions of dollars to murder and  maime civilians,( men, woman, children, babies and unborn babies in the mother's womb) as well as to destroy the industrial and commercial life of Nortehrn Ireland;- a condition from which we have not fully recovered. It is recognised that American corporations have created many jobs here with significant investment. However, it was American dollars which helped the psychopathic terrorists to destroy the jobs in the first place, and the horrors they carried out were, and still are, albeit at a lesser frequency, just as atrocious as the Islamic terrorists. The terrorists, from both sides here control the drug supply and distribution in their respective communities and continue to terrorise all of society. 

Americans support selected ter

Side Score: 7
VS.

Americans do not support any

Side Score: 9

That is far from the only terrorist group we have directly or indirectly supported through out our history. Our actions in the cold war directly led to the creation of Al Qaeda, simply so that we had another tool to fight against the U.S.S.R. Our actions also led to the current regime in Iran, which is one of the countries that provides the most funding for Islamic Extremists.

Side: Americans support selected ter
daver(1771) Disputed
1 point

Our actions in the cold war directly led to the creation of Al Qaeda,

Actually Al Qaeda, along with countless other vermin, are spawn of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is older than our country. Simply because they use Russian and western weapons has nothing to do with their thousand year old ideology of violence and oppression. Iran was overrun with Islamic fundamentalists that wanted to rule the country with Sharia Law. Sharia existed for well over a thousand years before we came along. Your causality is weak.

Side: Americans do not support any
1 point

Actually Al Qaeda, along with countless other vermin, are spawn of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is older than our country.

According to the information I keep finding the Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928. I thought our country, unless you aren't from the US, was officially founded in 1776.

Side: Americans support selected ter
1 point

If America worked with the Muslim Brotherhood to establish Al Qaeda in an effort to overthrow the Russians, than nothing that you wrote disagrees with GenericName.

Side: Americans do not support any
1 point

You are right, we only organized them, funded them, and trained them. We clearly didn't create them.

Iran had a democratically elected leader that we overthrew in favor of a dictator that we thought was malleable. That backfired, and now they are ruled by one of the more conservatively Muslim regimes in the world.

Edit: Additionally, the Muslim Brotherhood is most certainly not older than our country. It is older than our involvement in Afghanistan, sure, but we've got over a hundred years on them.

Side: Americans support selected ter
1 point

Most Americans condemn terrorism.

Sadly, America as a country has been supporting different terrorist groups for quite a long time.

Side: Americans support selected ter

With the exception of a handful of extremists that aren't worth mentioning, Americans as a people do not support terrorism at any level.

I can understand the thought, though. Decisions of varying popularity have been made by the government. In some cases, our government has offered varying forms of aid to organizations outside of the US. In some of these cases, the organization in question is known or suspected to have engaged in terrorist activity; misinformation or cover-ups typically apply in these cases. In other cases, the organization in question 'goes rogue' after receiving aid from the US government- sometimes due to a power vacuum created or left behind by the US government, and sometimes with no such excuse.

I am unaware of any cases where aid was lent to organizations that US citizens could reasonably be expected to recognize as terrorists.

In many cases, these represent dirty dealings by a portion of our government, which is typically hidden from the citizens and even the rest of the government until it is 'too late.'

Can you reasonably hold an individual culpable for something when he is separated by multiple degrees from the event in question, and is wholly ignorant of the affair (Not ignorant due to laziness, but due to a lack of information, the presence of misinformation, and many other factors)?

Should the janitor at Enron have been held culpable for the whole accounting fiasco?

I think not, even if I up the ante to assume the janitor had purchased one share of stock, and as such was entitled to vote on 'official business.' Remember, this wasn't 'official business' and he still doesn't have any accurate information regarding the affair. Even if he had accurate info, the vote he got from his share isn't even a blip to the board.

Side: Americans do not support any
1 point

Thousandin1;- My post was not meant in any way to suggest that the government of the United States of America give aid or succour to Irish terrorist groups. Indeed they gave great assistance by way of intelligence to the U.K, forces of law and oerder. However, successive American administrations did little, if anything to outlaw terrorist fund raising organisions such as Noraid. Many 1000s of U.S. citizens made donations totaling 10s of millions of dollars to Irish murder gangs. I only wish that they could have seen the death, disfigurement, mutilation of human bodies and destruction which their bloodied dollars had caused for over 30 years, These misguided Americans aided and abetted the terrorists to slaughter over 3000 people and mutilate countless 1000s of others, many on whom have since committed suicide rather than face the world with their disfigurements. My argument is that there is no point in going into denial and turning a blind eye to the fact that large numbers of American citizens were indirectly responsible for a significant proportion of the carnage and destruction in the towns and cities of Northern Ireland. Prior to the so called ''troubles'' Northern Ireland was a prosperous part of the U.K. making a very positive contribution to the coffers of the treasury at Westminster. Once the psychopathic murderers and job destroyers commenced their ''war on the people'' they bombed our factories, places of business, killed directors of both domestic and international corporations as well as torching 1000s of vehicles in the public, commercial sectors and private transport. How would Americans feel if the same proportion of Irish people had donated huge amounts of dosh to help fund the shocking atrocity of 9/11?

Side: Americans do not support any
thousandin1(1931) Clarified
1 point

The less intelligent Americans would probably blame 'The Irish' in your scenario, but those of average or better intelligence would recognize these actions as those of an extreme minority; remember proportions, the US has a population nearly 70x that of ireland, so 'many thousands' in the US translates to 'many dozens' in Ireland.

"Many thousands" also does not constitute "large numbers of American citizens" given our population of ~320 million. This represents an EXTREME minority. This is less than our smallest ethnic minority, "Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander Hispanic," which is just shy of 60,000 individuals and represents less than a tenth of a percentage of our population.

It's ridiculous to judge a society by the actions of an extreme minority, any way you slice it. The proper place to direct the anger in your scenario would be towards the government of Ireland, and I'd expect the government of Ireland to assist in apprehending and extraditing the offenders. I would have no issue with our government doing same- only with being judged by the actions of an extreme minority, by your own numbers.

Side: Americans support selected ter
1 point

When I was constructing the heading for my debate issue I was mindful that it would have been be prudent to have commenced the title with;- ''Some'' Americans, as the probability of someone pooh poohing the numbers by attempting to ''reduce them to the ridiculous'' was very likely. However, my omission provided you with the foundation of your excellent and, in many ways, patriotic counter argument. As a long term admirer of America and it's citizens I am very aware of the population of that vast country and how it was, and perhaps still is, a percentage of the Irish American population which provided, promoted and glorified the murder squads of Irish terrorists as well as making a significant contribution towards the financing of their diabolic deeds. I absolutely am not, nor never have for one second claimed that the American nation as a whole supported the crimes the psychopathic low lives were committing in Ireland; simply pointing out that there were adequately significant numbers of them providing finance which not only enhanced the ability of the terrorists to ply their vile trade of death and destruction, but also were partially responsible for prolonging the misery of a long suffering people. I don't have any official figures but I clearly remember a B.B.C, report stating that at one rally alone there were in excess of 5000 Irish terrorist supporters. I appreciate that this is an infinitesimal percentage ( around .0015%, I think) of the population of the United States of America, but it is still over 5000 Americans who supported the terrorists of their choice. Can anyone cherry pick the terrorists which they consider to be justified in their barbaric acts and condemn those with whose cause they don't agree. I would be certain that the Islamic low lives could dream up some ideological goal, the achievement of which justifies the means. These same American supporters of Irish terrorism would undoubtedly express their outrage at the on going atrocities committed by the Islamic filth. The percentage of terrorist killers in Northern Ireland was deemed to be no more than 0.6% of the population which equated to around 1000 active murders. 1000 murderous maniacs can cause a lot of death, just in the same way 5000 wealthy supporters can exacerbate an already desperate situation. The point here is that percentages are of less relevance than the actual numbers.

Side: Americans do not support any
1 point

You know, I can't remember his name at the moment, but someone Brown was a big terrorist towards slave owners. He did kill many people in very bad ways, but I think everyone can agree his cause was just. I think terrorism depends on your views. I know this was a very lacking post, but if I get into an argument I'll do more digging on the facts.

Side: Americans do not support any