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10
5
True False
Debate Score:15
Arguments:12
Total Votes:15
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 True (8)
 
 False (4)

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atypican(4875) pic



An imaginary problem is a real problem

A creation of the mind may only exist in the mind, but it does exist. ie. the imaginary is real.

We are very used to logic that states, things imaginary are by definition "not real". But that logic is akin to saying "thoughts don't exist"

Please chime in and say either you get my point, or challenge me to better articulate it, articulate it better yourself, explain why my point is an expression of delusion, whatever.


Superstition, bigotry and prejudice, ghosts though they are, cling tenaciously to life; they are shades armed with tooth and claw. They must be grappled with unceasingly, for it is a fateful part of human destiny that it is condemned to wage perpetual war against ghosts. A shade is not easily taken by the throat and destroyed.” ~Victor Hugo

True

Side Score: 10
VS.

False

Side Score: 5
3 points

I think that the use of the term "real" requires some kind of precising. I do agree, however, with the general idea of imaginary problems being real ones. We have examples of purely imaginary things that are nevertheless "real". I bring attention to the concept of "rights". They are ostensibly unreal, yet display all of the hallmarks of "real things": they impact the world, particularly societal formations, human behavior and expectations; they help decide what policies can legitimately become laws; and they are defended with both pen and sword. That doesn't happen to non-real things. However, "real" still requires further precising.

Side: True
1 point

"You also have not address my point regarding the difference between imagination, and the subjects of such imagination."~Bohemian

If you wouldn't mind asking the question I neglected to answer, in as clear of terms as possible.

Side: True
1 point

Sure. If I thought I was on fire and I ran around screaming that I was on fire, but I wasn't really on fire... well that would certainly be an imaginary problem, but because I actually believe that I am on fire, then the real problem would be that I'm mentally unstable. So an imaginary problem can be a real problem, but they aren't the exact same problem. The imaginary problem can be caused by the real problem, but the exact problem that was imagined is not the same as the real problem. Unless of course, the problem that you imagined turns out to be true. In which case, it would only be a real problem and no longer an imaginary one.

Side: True
1 point

I guess what you are saying makes sense but the imaginary problem would be real to the person and not to the rest of us. Let me explain:

If I in my head see myself as being really sick and can actually tell you what I am sick with (knees, fever, throwing up and chills) then I will convince my body to be sick but when going to a doctor I have nothing.

Then for me the imaginary problem is real for me. Does that make sense?

Side: True
1 point

You're awesome when you're sick and making up debates.

One very good and very provable completely cerebral thought test can prove without a doubt that not only is any imagined problem real, but anything any human can ever think of ever is very much based at its core in nothing but what one has sensed... or based in reality in other words. No matter how fantastic it seems this is always the case.

Test: Imagine a completely original thing then describe it.

You can't. Every part of this fantastic thing is taken from things sensed, exaggerated, combined, altered, do what you will to this thing, it is another thing or other things sensed.

Blah, I could go on but inevitably someone will try and describe a striped fanged amoeba who breathes something that does not exist while adjaof the ahouer

And I'll explain you see stripes everywhere along with fangs and know what an amoeba is. That they breathe is assumed regardless what it is and that they just strung together letters with no representation of meaning.

Then they could say it does not breath and I'd say neither do rocks so you still did not make something up.

In the purest sense humans are incapable of a truly original thought. This includes imagining problems.

Side: True

I think so. An imaginary problem can turn into reality. Reality can then get ugly.

Side: True
2 points

We are very used to logic that states, things imaginary are by definition "not real". But that logic is akin to saying "thoughts don't exist"

The thoughts exist, the subjects of the thoughts do not.

Side: False
atypican(4875) Disputed
1 point

If I close my eyes and think of X and use my imagination to make a picture of it, X would be the subject of my thought correct?

I understand that if I am imagining a hammer I have not thereby created a hammer but rather an internal symbolic representation of one.

I do not recognize error in the way I am thinking about this yet, but someone may be able to get through to me at some point. :) mAybe someone's patient enough to trap me with my own logic. That would be cool!

enjoy the video in the mean time

fmri thought identification
Side: True
Bohemian(3860) Disputed
1 point

I understand that if I am imagining a hammer I have not thereby created a hammer but rather an internal symbolic representation of one

Yes, but your examples are of things that already exist, they exist independent of thought. A leprechaun does not exist and thinking of one does not bring it into existence.

Side: False
1 point

You know I do understand what you are saying! There is a lot of sense. Thoughts exist. But, they exist only as far as your brain is going. Imagination is true and is complete with reality. But, your thoughts and your imagination will not make it to the thoughts of others or become true with the collaboration with others imagination. There has to be an output. An action. You have to put it out verbally or make it happen in order to achieve the status of being real. Because as long as it's inside your brain... It is unknown or is true only to yourself. Societal rules need evidences.

Side: False