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Are Atheists To Blame For All of America's Problems?
Glenn Beck believes that atheists are to blame for all of the U.S.'s woes. Afterall, the fastest growing group in all 50 states are the non-religious, and yet for the *first* time in the history of the country, we've had economic and social turmoil. Coincidence?
I won't say only atheists are to blame for all of our problems, but I think we do have some problems in society that stem from the atheist/theist debates. I think we are way too busy fighting each other that we don't notice the possible fall of society. We used to be at the top of the scale for education. Then we got into silly arguments over whether or not God should be allowed in the Pledge and some patriotic songs. Now, we are at the bottom of the scale! Only 26% of high school graduates go on to college and out of all of the students who actually graduate (this negates all drop-outs, which is roughly 1 drop-out every 20-30 seconds) only one-third are even ready for a four year college. We debate too much over frivolous things and this takes away from attention that should be given to our children and our schools.
There are, obviously, other things that we take away from, but just showing this data explains that we don't pay attention to our education. And why? Because atheists and theists, for some reason, can't seem to agree on anything. Because blacks and whites differ on their views. Because democrats and republicans fight over everything. Yes, atheists can be blamed for deteriorating our society, but if atheists are blamed, shouldn't we all be blamed. Remember, it takes two to tango.
Are you serious? Our math and science test scores are dropping, and the Christian's response is to teach theology in science class, and you blame atheists?
I'm not sure what solution you're advocating. Are you claiming atheists should just shutup and let Christian extremists stamp God on everything, and that that would somehow improve education?
I'm saying we should all shut up and put our differences aside to look toward the future. I don't care what you do to be an atheist and I'm sure you don't care what i do to be a theist. I am proposing that we take our differences and "leave them at the door".
"and you blame atheists?"
If you even read what I wrote, you would understand that I CLEARLY blamed everyone. I blamed people with my beliefs and people with your beliefs.
To an extent, I agree with what you're saying. But there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed. Instances where religion oversteps its bounds, like the insertion of religious dogma into science textbooks, isn't a difference that can be left at the door.
That's why I think religion and science should be taught separately. In early CCD classes, I learned about creationism. In public school, I learned about evolution. After learning both, I officially made an informed decision that evolution seemed more credible and realistic than creationism, and therefore truer.
If you would like to put atheists in the equation as to why society has the problems it does right now, then that would be fine; but to assign total blame on them is just plain ludicrous. We as a society, as a whole, have morphed into extremists from every angle and nobody wants to lose or bend even slightly.
Society has changed so drastically not only because people just don’t seem to care as much anymore but because we aren’t nurturing our children, who our future, the same way we used to. Monetary gain has become the picture of ideal so much so that we are paying to much attention to our job positioning and not enough to our children.
People are allowing other people to basically raise their children because their position is that much more important as it is what pays for their upbringing. But ask yourselves this, who exactly is raising your kids when you aren’t?
Parenting is a diminishing skill as it is all too easy to allow other people to do your job. Kids and adults alike are given ample electronic devises to keep them busy and too preoccupied to even interact appropriately with each other leaving media with total power to obstruct our next generation’s moral values. Did you know that on a daily basis, on average, it is said that only 9 of the 1440 minutes a day are spent in actual parent/child conversation?This is just sad. We are all to blame for letting our ethics, morals, and values crumble with out so much as even a fight. Atheists are not the only one with that problem.
Well, the tags are stupid. I'm a Christian and I happen to like science. Anyways, ...
I don't think that atheists alone are to blame for these problems and that's not what he said. It's not just the people that call themselves atheists. But the people who call themselves Christian that still fill the void with "things, power, career, money, celebrities, politics, government". What percentage of people do that!!!????
Atheist or not, the people doing that are the problem.
Anyone who spends most of their time on that stuff mine as well be an atheist. Because they are helping them grow.
"Anyone who spends most of their time on that stuff mine as well be an atheist. Because they are helping them grow."
Atheism is not the belief that we should accumulate as much crap as possible. It's the lack of belief in the supernatural.
Saying atheism is the source of materialism is like saying Christianity is the source of war. Atheists and christians have on occassion been materialists, just as atheists and christians have started wars.
He was saying that if someone is going to worry more about materialism and themselves, they aren't true Christians and might as well be Atheists (for Atheism doesn't have a specific belief on how you should live your life, while Christianity does).
And again, being a bad Christian isn't the same as being an atheist. Materialistic or not, unless they don't believe in God, they're not atheists. Period.
"Atheism is not the belief that we should accumulate as much crap as possible."
I wasn't trying to say that. I'm just saying that the people that do are either atheist or don't really care much for religion, even if they say they do.
The fact is, aithiesm is total crap. Science proves intelligent design. Try to prove me wrong. Where did it all start? The big bang? Before that? And that? And before that? No athiest knows what caused existence, but I do.
Oh, that was easy, right? But wait! Who created God? Another God? And another?
Science does not have all the answers but what it does have is a methodology: falsifiable, testable, repeatable research.
You say God created everything. I say Flying Spaghetti Monster created everything. I can SCREAM and swear louder than you so I win. Right? FSM is the cause of the everything. Prove me wrong.
Using your own argument I just proved you're in an intellectual dead end.
The big bang wasn't the creation of matter, it was the expansion of matter. Matter can't be created or destroyed, and for that reason, it needs no beginning because it has no end.
Also, your argument has nothing to do with atheists being to blame for america's problems
That aside, you're probably a troll, but I've had enough people tell me what you're saying for me to consider the possibility that you're not.
And no, he wasn't saying that Atheism is bad... he was attacking the extreme Secularism that seems to always be in your face these days. The problem he was blaming these secularfags for was how it just didn't really seem to matter that you could worship the president in a school but you can't worship God.
I've sung for quite some time. The Battle Hymn has been attacked by the Secularfags because
1. Its contents on how War is necessary
2. Its religion
There have been number of times where my HighSchool choir couldn't sing certain songs because they were about Christ or some bullshit like that. We fought it, and won usually, but we still couldn't sing the original Battle Hymn.
I don't like religion, but it's influence in this country is poetic and important in many ways. What he talked about about the Declaration of Independence, we were recognizing that we were equal because of some higher force, be it God or just our ability to reason. But it wasn't because of the government.
But that's what our country is becoming. We see it in today's schools. Political speech is okay, so we can technically worship the government all we want. But any religion that is brought up is against policy and can even get a teacher fired. Worship the government, not God...
One of the few deep meaning things I've heard Beck come up with. Not saying he is incapable of it, but usually he says things exactly as we can see it. This time, he's really making us think.
unfortunately, morons just look at this clip and say "he's a ChristFag who's attacking atheism, lol".
You make it sounds like government worship is some sort of recent secular conspiracy.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all."
All public schools recite this every morning of every school day. Kids aren't require to say it, but they're effectively required to hear it.
And I actually find it a bit creepy.
But this nothing new, as the pledge (minus "under God") has been around for over a hundred years. The logic (not mine) goes; not everyone in the country has the same religion, but they belong to the same nation.
Christians are always up in arms when schools prevent them from singing Christian-theme songs. I actually don't have an issue with a balanced display of religion, but I wonder how many Christians would welcome Hindu, Muslim, or Jewish themed songs?
Would they welcome a song that promoted Muslim warriors spreading the love of Allah through conquest? Of course not. But somehow "Battle Hymn" is perfectly fine.
2. As you said, no one is required to say the Pledge. It is merely Patriotic and the God part shows how we differentiate Government from what we find most important (God is a metaphor, not specific). It is one Nation, under God (which can be defined in any way) instead of One Nation under government.
3. They do. Jewish songs are pretty popular during the Holiday Season as well. Not as popular, of course, mainly because there aren't as many songs that people like, but they do have a few. Don't know any Muslim religions during Christmas season, though. Either way, Christians don't BAN other religious songs from schools. That's the main difference.
"It is one Nation, under God (which can be defined in any way) instead of One Nation under government."
It always amuses me when someone says "God" can mean anything. Yeah, defined in any way, except "no God". Metaphor or not, it will never apply to atheists, agnostics, or other non-religious people.
It would seem we have a massive disagreement in definitions.
I define "religious", in the broadest sense, to mean anything involving unquantified opinions or belief in the supernatural. Deists, spirtualists, IDers, and pantheists by definition all have beliefs in the supernatural, and are therefore religious.
holy fuckin' shit you don't read anything I say... do you?
a system of FAITH AND WORSHIP.
Deism is not a SYSTEM of faith and worship. It is the simple belief that a deity created everything, probably in the very beginning of time, and let nature take it's course. It does not conflict with natural law because it applies to terms before nature. Faith AND worship is the key. Faith without worship is just faith. You can have faith in anything. Being an optimist or a pessimist makes you a faithful person... by your logic, would this make them religious? Because many atheists and agnostics are either pessimists or optimists. In fact, Secular Humanism is majorly optimistic on the nature of man. So, if faith makes you religious, Secular Humanists (which are atheists) are religious.
Don't you find that... a little weird? o wait, you're Cerin... you didn't read any of that anyway.
Belief and faith are synonyms genius. Having a "belief" in a supreme creator is the same as having "faith" in one. The term "religion" doesn't require having a neat little book and fancy houses to review your beliefs. That's just a convention common to several religions.
But I'm sure you'll still disagree out spite, so here's a fun exercise to prove I'm right:
1. Bring up Google.
2. Type in "define:religion" and press "Google Search"
3. Read the FIRST result.
It should read "a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny".
@Cerin: I'm with you on this one. All of these are good points. I might add that Christians do discriminate against other religions by insisting on displaying the 10 Commandments in public and government places, saying that cross is not a Christian sign (recent Scalia's invention and rant).
Maybe Christians don't ban songs (I am just not aware of song bans) but they sure ban and burn books that they deem inappropriate.
By the way I would agree on displaying the 10 Commandments in public if they also include punishment that bible requires for their violation: death for each and single one. People should know how bloody and brutal Christianity actually is.
Just take a down vote for what it is, down voting just shows you that the truth hurts. Some people can't handle the truth when it is about them. I strive to get down votes. I know that if I'm down voted then I must have struck a nerve. If what I said wasn't true then it would bother them.
What a weird reading of MK's above post. It seemed to me that he was blaming polarized divisiveness -- not atheists or liberals or secularists. Note that the post referenced atheists and theists, black and white, democrat and republican, etc.
Nobody worships the government. Political speech is not religion. You are simply occluding the issue.
D'you think you could avoid gay-bashing things you dislike? It does nothing to bolster your argument and is frankly just discriminatory and rude.
I wasn't gay bashing... why, just cause I use the word fag?
and if i were to call someone a bitch, that would be sexist? Or bastard, since that's a term usually to describe a dude. That should be a discriminatory term as well.
A secularfag or Christfag is someone who's WAAAAY into something and brings it up at inappropriate times (internet).
on the internet, if you stand so hard for something, you are that thing but with fag attached to it. In fact, the Police force calls gun lovers "gunfags".
Since you don't know enough about the internet to know this, your credibility has been shot down to shit. just being honest.
Honestly I have just used the internet for years without having to use much slang because I despise 85% net speak. Plus I've never heard that term before...it's sounds like a special student in the class of internet terms.
I don't stroll the internet for the "new hip term", hell I use old english way more than anything else it would be inherently wrong for me to be as hip as you.
Honestly I have just used the internet for years without having to use much slang because I despise 85% net speak. Plus I've never heard that term before...it's sounds like a special student in the class of internet terms. I don't stroll the internet for the "new hip term", hell I use old english way more than I should it would be inherently wrong for me to be as hip as you.
"I wasn't gay bashing... why, just cause I use the word fag?"
This is a bit off-topic, but yes, exactly. "Fag" is slang for homosexual, so by using words like fag as a derogatory term, you're associating homosexuality as a derogatory attribute.
If I took your name/school/hometown/hobby/religion and tried to associate it with something horrible, you probably wouldn't appreciate it. Same basic concept.
well, I got about 2 minutes into the Beck's rant. I love how the second clip of kids singing, all they say is "Can we make America Better? Yes we can." And still that nut job is crying about it.
Sure Beck, all of our problems are because god is mad at us...
I love how the second clip of kids singing, all they say is "Can we make America Better? Yes we can." And still that nut job is crying about it.
Here's what you said:
"Yes we can" is kind of an Obama thing, in case you didn't know.
Now, I'm not sure about what part of that makes you think that I don't know that "yes we can" is "kind of an Obama thing."
But my point was that Beck is insane, and it doesn't matter how good and unpolitical the message is, Beck will always try to demonize anything even remotely connected with our President.
Now, I'm not sure about what part of that makes you think that I don't know that "yes we can" is "kind of an Obama thing."
You where implying that indoctrination is nothing to 'cry' about.
But my point was that Beck is insane, and it doesn't matter how good and unpolitical the message is, Beck will always try to demonize anything even remotely connected with our President.
Actually when Obama does something Glenn agrees with, he's not afraid to say it. I don't think you really know who Glenn Beck is.
I seems that you will demonize anything even remotely connected with Glenn Beck.
The point is, that's not indoctrination. You listen to too much glenn beck if you don't realize he's completely insane.
And yeah, it is funny, because a year ago if anyone dared question Bush, they were unamerican. Now the same people who called those who didn't like Bush's policies unamarican, or terrorists, are the same people now saying Obama is communist and other such nonsense... so it's not haha funny, it's like, sad funny.
Teaching kids that Obama is doing great things for this country is indoctrination. And that's bad because many people disagree.
You listen to too much glenn beck if you don't realize he's completely insane.
You are either an idiot or are trying to be funny and failing. Do you seriously think he has mental problems, if so what evidence do you have?
And yeah, it is funny, because a year ago if anyone dared question Bush, they were unamerican.
Questioning the president is more than fine, no matter what. But disrespecting is different.
Shouting "you lie!" was disrespectful. Me and Glenn Beck AND the guy who did it all admitted that the day after it happened. [but you guys held on to it for weeks of course, you eat that stuff up]
But literally questioning the president is acceptable. Glenn Beck questioned Bush all the time, and he's not afraid to bring that up. Questioning the President is in fact very American, and I never said otherwise.
It's interesting you don't use the full quote. Was it a little too atheistic for your taste?
Here's the full quote, in case anyone's interested:
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. - Thomas Jefferson"
I wouldn't use that particular analogy. Political candidates are quantifiable, tangible, and have an existence beyond refute. I can't exactly walk into God's office and ask him why he didn't give a tax break to the middle class.
Dude, Obama didn't make those kids sing that song. The teacher got the parents permission. Songs have been sung about every president ever by school kids. There is nothing political about that song.
The only reason it's getting any attention is because people like Beck are riling up the conspiracy theorists. That's the only reason. This has no more merit than sasquatch, the loch ness monster, or leprechauns.
A question is for instance, "can we afford nationalized healthcare," or "does talking with foreign nations work toward peace or show weakness."
"HE'S BRAINWASHING OUR KIDS AND TURNING US COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!"
"HE'S BRAINWASHING OUR KIDS AND TURNING US COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!"
But Glenn Beck never said that. That's what you people do, make stuff up. You know how many people actually think Sara Palin was the one that said "I can see Russia from my back yard"!? When Tina Fey was the one that actually said that. Don't make stuff up!
Indoctrination and brainwashing isn't the same thing. And Beck said nothing about communism.
Please don't paraphrase to benefit your rant. And by the way He asks those two questions you listed all the time.
1. indoctrination is a form or brainwashing. That's what it is. So you're wrong, it's not a matter of opinion.
2. I'm saying what glenn beck insinuates. He insinuates Obama is personally brainwashing kids and that he is a communist. Just because you either are not bright enough to figure out what he's insinuating, or too whacked out of your skull to figure out what he's insinuating (I guess the second option after your comment about blacks should make their own Union) does not in any way take away from the fact that he has, is, and will again insinuate Obama is a communist anti-christ bent on brainwashing the kids.
3. Palin is almost as dopey as Beck. When asked about her foreign policy credentials, she stated Russia being "right next door" as her foreign experience. Now, did SNL use her exact words? Probably not, but that's what parody is. She gave an extremely juvenile and asinine answer to something she should have been well prepared to answer, and so they made fun of her. As they should.
Did someone hijack your account? Here's the debate it was from, link
I was explaining why it is wrong to discriminate against gays. I had in the arguement with you made this point after you went on about the "definition" of marriage:
1. we define words and can change the definition whenever and however we feel. ex. in the 18 century Africans were defined as inferior, and so enslaving them was just fine by "definition" link
Obviously that they were defined as such was not, and should not have been, the "End of story" right?
To which you replied (you quoting me is in bold, your words italisized):
1. we define words and can change the definition whenever and however we feel
True.
Africans were defined as inferior
Nobody is doing that right now.
Obviously that they were defined as such was not, and should not have been, the "End of story" right?
Well hey, there's other options. I just think it would be easier for them to make their own union but they don't want to. Not my fault.
Joe, your one-liner does not help here. It's just childish to make these kind of statements.
Have you taken the flu vaccine recently? Have you gone to a doctor and get some prescription medicine to fix your ailment? Have you used your cell phone lately? Watched cable TV?
All of this was created by scientists who are overwhelmingly atheists (medicine and biology - evolution, theory of relativity - no need for a god to explain cosmos)
One might argue that TV and cell phones are the root of all our problems and there is a lot to say to support it. That I would agree wholeheartedly.
Well..., I'm sure atheists didn't invent all those gadgets but, getting back to the subject at hand, we have to blame somebody for America's problem.... don't we? I mean, it's not our fault ;)
That's just dumb. Did Glenn Beck give any actual evidence for this? America has had ups and downs...this isn't the worst time we've ever been through. America went through both world wars and the great depression years before atheism was popular in America.
I'd like to point out the difference between our past and the present. In the past people were not lazy, people had passion, people were patriotic, people had what it took to get threw tough times. It is that dedication that is dead today, religion takes work. You have to get up on Sundays, go sit through a sermon etc.; atheism is a lazy man's Paradise. No work involved. To blame, in part they are.
I see what you're saying about people being more lazy recently than they were before, but my point was that we've had tough times before, do now, and will at times in the future. Atheists are not to blame for all of that. I'm sure SOME atheists are to blame for some small parts of America's problems, but I don't think atheism breeds laziness. Unless you have a statistic showing the productivity of atheists vs. the productivity of Christians(or some similar evidence), there's no real strength in your argument. I mean, are cult members more industrious than baptists because they have more meetings?
The theory he is putting forth is that if everyone were Christian, this country would have less problems. That's what he believes, that's what he says.
that would imply he believes god works that way:When christians see a problem, they pray to God to fix it for them.
Now when or how did Glenn Beck say that?
The theory he is putting forth is that if everyone were Christian, this country would have less problems. That's what he believes, that's what he says.
I think your getting confused. I'm saying god doesn't reach his hand out of the sky and physically fix everything for us. Thant's what me and Cerin where talking about.
Exactly what is it that atheist have fixed? Is it world peace? Is it world hunger? At least Christians try to do something about these things. An atheist concerned about others, give me a break. They own concerned about themselves. No morals or principals to up hold except their own.
Does curing polio count? What about the invention of electricity, or the computer you're using right now? These things were done by scientists, 72% of which are either atheistic or otherwise non-religious.
Glen Beck is crazy, honestly he's been getting worse over the years. This was him on a good day too which is sadder than puppies being crushed by a bag of dead puppies.
Atheism has nothing to do with America being in trouble. It was bound to happen it was no one person's fault it was a chain of things sprouted from humanity's inherent flaws such as ego. I managed to watch his entire crazy speech and when he mentioned that other countries were basically godless, I laughed. The most dangerous countries have been driven by their God! Most wars are started over religion!
Honestly why does the man think atheists have a void? Honestly I know many who are quite content with their lives and many Christians who are not. I have no true religion personally, but I have tinkered with many. I never felt a void that religion could fill, and many I know have tried to fill the void with God and it did more harm than good. If you need god to fill a hole in your heart then you need to find out why that hole is there. And as for Glen Beck he needs to figure out why someone hasn't filled that hole in him...the one where his brain should be.
Saying Atheist are to blame for all of are problems is one of the most naive things to say on-line (maybe in your church but not on-line) That is the same as saying that Christians are to blame for Americas problems
This is somewhat silly, but I'll say that no, they are not. There are much more other things you can put false blame on, but please: leave the atheists alone (I am not an atheist, I know a few though)
And who does all these awful things? dogs, chickens, trees ? Nope, darn that means it's us, humans and it means there is something amiss with our nature since we love to do it. And whether we cloak it in theism or atheism makes no difference. The underlying problem is the same, we love to do what we know is wrong. Don't believe me? just look at an addict. His problem is only more obvious than the rest of ours, mine included. We hide ours and he doesn't. So the way this works it's way out in culture is when we make laws to exonerate ourselves. When we call evil, good. When we wash the outside of the cup and not the inside. The problems come when we ignore our problem; when we point to all the evil in the world around us while ignoring the evil in our own hearts.
I would like to continue putting all of the blame on whitey, but in all actuality it's all Glen Beck's fault! Dang! Is that man serious! Can I sing a song for you, Mr. Beck? Would that make you feel better?
