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Yeah, I have a little more to say... If you live in a city, you have a black neighborhood.. Black neighborhoods are NOT as nice as white neighborhoods.. If you NOTICE that and BELIEVE that black people are NOT oppressed, you'd have to CONCLUDE that they live in those shit holes because they WANT to.. Or, you could conclude that black people are FORCED to live that way because they live in a racist nation..
It's not so much that they live in a racist nation, but that they are still suffering the effects of segregation and poverty and lack of education and economic inequality even though those things are no longer structurally reinforced, they've still left their mark on the black communities.
Or, you could conclude that black people are FORCED to live that way because they live in a racist nation..
And as if by magic, millions of blacks don't live that way, and millions of whites do live that way. The whites who live that way must be FORCED to live that way.
Libs say poor, white, uneducated, trailor trash rednecks voted Trump into office. Now poof! You act like these poverty stricken whites don't exist. It's amazing really.
Libs say poor, white, uneducated, trailor trash rednecks voted Trump into office. Now poof! You act like these poverty stricken whites don't exist. It's amazing really.
You seem unaware of depressed city black neighborhoods. Undoubtedly, there are millions of impoverished white people in cities as well as rural locations.
What is needed is investment from the government where corporations cannot do this.
You seem unaware of depressed city black neighborhoods
I'd be willing to bet that white Joe Blow in Watonga, Texas didn't build an electric fence to keep them in there.
And if it seems magically impossible to get out? Let me suggest the few, the proud, the Marines. Or? Applying for grants designed for minorities that are easy as pie to get if you are one.
Black neighborhoods are NOT as nice as white neighborhoods
I used to live in a shit house. I went out and made more money. It's not your fault that I lived in a shit house. It was mine. Their problem is they continue to pass down a culture of victomhood, failure, violence, and excuses. Conservative blacks keep doing just fine and getting along with whites. Why? They choose to. Any questions?
If you NOTICE that and BELIEVE that black people are NOT oppressed, you'd have to CONCLUDE that they live in those shit holes because they WANT to.. Or, you could conclude that black people are FORCED to live that way because they live in a racist nation..
Or you could conclude that the predominant culture in neighborhoods is what makes it awful, and that if some the same people who make their neighborhoods suck were to move to the suburbs, they would make those into "shitholes", too.
These things have nothing to do with race, but everything to do with culture, and with individual choices.
The "shitholes" you refer to are made that way by some (NOT ALL) of the residents being variously criminals, litterers, vandals, etc.. By the same token, nicer neighborhoods are made that way by the culture and efforts of the residents. (This is why there is alternately decline or gentrification of neighborhoods.)
The race of the residents is irrelevant, but how well the individual residents keep up the properties, make even modest improvements, and make the place safe (or not) is of ultimate importance.
- The bars on windows in crappy neighborhoods did not bring the crime or cause the neighborhood to be crappy. The local criminals are the cause of that.
- There is no oppressive group of White people bringing garbage into the hood and spreading around the streets.
You are right to imply that, in general, individuals do move to nicer neighborhoods when they can, regardless of race. (That is why middle class and suburban neighborhoods tend to be more racially diverse than inner city neighborhoods.) Importantly, they also tend to have a much higher percentage of high school graduates and a lower rate of single parenthood.
What keeps people in bad neighborhoods is lack of financial options, but the primary reasons for the lack of options is poor decision making, and failure to graduate high school.
There is no "racist nation" forcing them to stay and live that way. That is ALL individual choices and their predictable and natural outcomes. The high school graduates go to college or get jobs, and then move away.
Black neighborhoods are NOT as nice as white neighborhoods..
And white liberals stay as far away from those neighborhoods as is humanly possible. They like to show "compassion" from afar while never actually helping anyone themselves, even despite the fact that the left has monopolies on the culture through academia, Hollywood, and the mainstream media. They think the right should wave its conservative magic wand...
Liberal compassion consists of someone else paying, someone else sacrificing, and someone else doing the work. Then they pat themselves on the back for supporting something that feels good, while not actually doing anything.
White libs are quite the unicorns. They claim whites have privilege, yet never give their homes, money, or time to blacks. Why? Because they don't actually give a shit. They simply like to look like they give a shit.
If you NOTICE that and BELIEVE that black people are NOT oppressed, you'd have to CONCLUDE that they live in those shit holes because they WANT to..
1)If you believe that Muslim women are not oppressed, you'd have to conclude that they wear burkas and live as third class citizens because they want to.
2)A man becomes a druggie, an alcoholic, a deadbeat dad...and lives in a shitty house? That'd be? His damn fault.
I've known some pretty raggedy white neighborhoods.
Merriam-Webster defines race as..
"a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics"
Who determines what shared interests, habits, or characteristics determine a race?
Don't hate too much on people who are hung up on race. They don't know any better. Race is made up. The people who make this stuff up? Probably eugenicists or something. What are their standards? Who cares what they think.
Ver very stuupiid. You ask on a totally white dominated website if blacks are being oppressed.
Are you okay? is this a debate at all?who do the blacks say oppress them? you ask the accused bully if he indeed inflict pain on his victim?
What do you expect?? to be the winning side... if you were intelligent and trying to be objective you would at least make this debate a perspective debate.
So if blacks are truely being oppressed you think it will just go away or clean from history of reality by some stupid comments ??
You need to go for shopping………………on the market... purchase....wisdom...and intelligence.
You ask on a totally white dominated website if blacks are being oppressed.
There is nothing that precludes black people from enjoying this website.
you ask the accused bully if he indeed inflict pain on his victim?
There is no evidence that this website, or any particular member of this site, is the "bully" in question. If you think that a bullies is defined by the color of their skin, then you are the problem.
if you were intelligent and trying to be objective
If I were trying to be objective then I wouldn't worry about the color of the skin of the people making their case since facts require no racial quota.
you would at least make this debate a perspective debate
Oppression has an actual definition. Whether a person is oppressed is not simply a matter of their personal perspective, it's also a matter of fact.
So if blacks are truely being oppressed you think it will just go away or clean from history of reality by some stupid comments ??
Yes. I truly thought that if I posted this debate, then people could end oppression by a few of us talking about it for a little bit. (I know you don't understand sarcasm, that wasn't for you).
(I know you don't understand sarcasm, that wasn't for you).
Wow. you must really think of me as the most isolated hostile troglodyte on the surface of earth. You think i can't tell someone being sarcastic, you really think i must be that extremely dumb and you extremely intelligent than me....jesus...
because what?..location? i really don't wanna go there....
Do you know how many times i have been sarcastic towards many on CD especially JatinNagpal,mint tea, dermot, mack and minttea many times accused me of.....how many sarcasm debates i have created targetting gays, atheists and racists? even darwin? At least google can tell me what it means (for preservation of your moronism sake) ....oh jeez!!.
Damn you dumb.
And yes i truly believe you meant this
Yes. I truly thought that if I posted this debate, then people could end oppression by a few of us talking about it for a little bit.
and you weren't being sarcastic.
I only made you realise how naive and childish minded you really are(thank me) and you use sarcasm as an escape route.....
if that isn't it as i say then what is the truth?(you already said it right?)
There is nothing that precludes black people from enjoying this website.
As it stands now, blacks the opposite side and most vital contributors of this topic donot find this website fascinating enough to fill out the sign up form, so you can't have a two sided opinion debate.... the hustle is between Black and White Americans unchangeable and none can be left out this debate.......this is not a suitable platform for your kinda debate.
I am juggling naive and dumb choose one. If greedy take two....makes it three ;greedily, dumb and naive.
If you think that a bullies is defined by the color of their skin, then you are the problem.
It seems you still haven't gone for the shopping i recommended for....because you can't process simple analogies to identify characters and their roles in proper relation to your own topic..sad thing.
If I were trying to be objective then I wouldn't worry about the color of the skin of the people making their case since facts require no racial quota.
The topic has a colour tag ; Black. So there are colours everywhere, it's a colour party....but my problem is there is not even one of the hosting colour(black) here to give us an outline of what is really happening in this event...seriously?
You're kind of funny Jeff. You can't decide if you understand sarcasm or not haha.
Anyway, this topic has two sides regardless of the race of those debating. Your insistence on the opposite indicates that you being part of the problem hasn't changed in the last couple of posts. Just as we don't need a Catalonian to discuss what is happening in Spain, we don't need a black person to discuss oppression in the US. The facts won't change because of someones ethnicity. For the black perspective, any white person on this site can refer to countless articles and opinion pieces written by black journalists.
Well, if this free site is mostly white dominated then you have the opportunity to bring your side to the table in an informative manner. Perhaps instead of ad hominem attacks you could address the actual topic of the debate?
After all, all of us can only see the sides we are personally familiar with, maybe you can bring to the table some information in a fashion suited for debate and reflection.
I really have a hard time answering 100% to either side.
Yes, I think there are still some MAJOR issues with our country and racism.
How much of that is based off what we see in the news? I'm not sure.
I think there are some instances where a person is held back because of the color of their skin or gender. The black friends I have are all hard working individuals who have fought hard to get where they are and have had grief given on both sides. Some blacks will looks at another black person and actually accuse them of being "too white" because they are successful or working towards a degree. What?!?! Likewise I've heard complaints from friends who have had comments passed to them about how they should be thankful to be anywhere in life because "whitey" gave them a chance. Again...what?!?
Generally I think a good portion of what holds anyone back is themselves. Outsides sources can certainly bring a person down but if they have the gumption to better themselves then they need to do it. It's much easier to say they didn't get something because they were oppressed because the other option would be to actually work their behind off and fight tooth and nail to get something better in life.
I just...really dislike saying "blacks" or "whites" but for description purposes I used it, I do apologize if the wording is crude, really I think oppression is something all races both get and give at some point.
Very much on an irrelevant side note. I don't think there is anything particularly offensive in saying "blacks" or "whites" as a matter of brevity. Even so, using the words bothers me as well. I think it's because we are categorizing people by there skin color, and nothing more. As if President Obama shares a character or identity or experience with a south side gang banger because....pigmentation. Yeah right.
You make every effort to illustrate the role any individual will play in their circumstances. I think this is correct. It also opens the door for dialogue, which the loudest in the media don't seem to be interested in.
When a black person at Yale says you cannot presume to know the black experience because of your white privilege, they are presuming to know your white experience while denying their own privilege (if their at Yale, they are privileged). They are further presuming there is a "black" experience. As though New Orleans culture is the same as New York culture. These sentiments which lump black people together by the color of their skin and fails to recognize their individual natures, are presented as a means to fight racism, while maintaining the same illegitimate premises of the racists, that pigmentation makes the difference.
I think it's because we are categorizing people by there skin color, and nothing more
That's it exactly. We are so much more than just the color of our skin.
which the loudest in the media don't seem to be interested in.
I would argue that it is because what sells. Nothing sparks more anger and investment than a negative reason for why things are the way they are if there's someone else to blame. A headline saying "If you work hard you can achieve much" won't be as remembered or incite fury like something that suggests maybe a person's situation is because there are outside sources working against them. Where as most of us would say, "well work to fix it" and then actually fight to fix it, others would be more content to sit back and cast blame.
The term "white privilage" is so over-used and degrading it's ridiculous. I could spend five paragraphs just about a conversation I had with someone who actually lorded over me that she was black and "I couldn't possibly know what struggles she's had and any struggles I've gone through are nothing in comparison"....she was seriously trying to compete over who had it worse in a topic that had nothing to do with race. But immediately she jumped to "oh you're white you have no idea". It boggles the mind sometimes.
Everyone is oppressed in the US so by extension all of the negro slaves, I mean the POCs are as well. The privately owned "federal" reserve has been controlling the US economy creating massive debt for their own profit and making economic slaves of everyone from the poorly endowed pasty neanderthal white devil cro magnon albinoid cave man to the raisin headed bumper lipped shitskinned bobbling bumbling monkey brained cotton picking niggers.
A hard working, reliable, and godly person with black skin has a better chance at making it than most people.
All the oppression that blacks face in America are psychological. Look at what the mass media pushes out onto black people. Look at how the mass media represents black people to everyone else. Besides that, if the government isn't supposed to discriminate, why do they ask if I'm black when I do government paper work?
What ticks me off the most though is the music. All the best musicians I know are black skinned. There are a lot of really good musicians who are black. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that on the whole, blacks in America have greater musicianship than whites. I'm not saying this has anything to do with skin color, it is merely an observation of correlation that I have personally witnessed. But all this aside, why is it that the music the mass media uses to represent "Black culture" is devoid of instrumentation? Bothers me a lot. Maybe more than it should.
Yeah, there are a lot of psychological and sociological forces that weigh particularly heavy on blacks in America. That said, a reliable, hard working, and godly person with black skin has a better chance at making it than most people. I say that because there really is a heavy societal pressure placed on people with black skin. You're told you aren't really black if you act in a certain way. You're constantly having the devil whispering in your ear things that are intended to make you feel envious and entitled rather than blessed and empowered. It's really easy to fall into that racist mentality if you are black.
God made us all different, not the same. Not everyone with blonde hair is the same. Not everyone with black skin is the same. These are not qualities that truly matter when it comes to the character of an individual. Where does skin color really matter? Dealing with the sun. Maybe whether or not you use lotion. Hah!
I look forward to the day when we can all get beyond race all together.
No, I am referring to people who play external musical instruments. I am expressing my frustration that rap and hip hop is what the mass media rams down people's throats as being "black music".
Couldn't be further from the truth. Is hip hop popular among blacks? Without a doubt. It happens to be popular with people of all skin colors. There is a lot more "black music" than that though. Music that actually has real people playing real musical instruments. Real people playing real musical instruments that happen to have black skin.
I don't care about Jimmy Fallon, but he somehow managed to get The Roots to play on his late night show. The Roots can play anything. Those guys are legit. Real musicians.
No disrespect towards the voice as a musical instrument either.
Not really trying to bash hip hop so much as music that is played by computers instead of real musicians. Live music is the best. Music played competently by real musicians(Which does include vocalists) is what I like to hear.
I prefer music played by musicians because part of the magic of music to me is people cooperating and working together. The communication that happens when musicians are playing with each other live is just not present when sound goes through too much production and processing.
Nowadays, you can program everything into a computer that plays it. Could even make it sound really great. Or you could do an album with real instruments all by yourself. That's all fine, and you could make good sounding recordings from this, I'm sure. Something is lost in that for me. That something is the relationship that musicians have from performing together.
I wouldn't discourage anyone from doing a project all by themselves though. That is good too. I just like cooperation between people more.
Well let's look at the meaning of the term Oppress .....
oppress
[uh-pres]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object)
1.
to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to a burdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power:
a people oppressed by totalitarianism.
2.
to lie heavily upon (the mind, a person, etc.):
Care and sorrow oppressed them.
3.
to weigh down, as sleep or weariness does.
4.
Archaic. to put down; subdue or suppress.
5.
Archaic. to press upon or against; crush.
Explore Dictionary.com
I don't believe they are and if so who's doing the oppressing ?
The laws of the U S apply equally to all the citizens of the U S so is the government oppressing them ?
Are whites oppressing them ?
Are they oppressing themselves ?
In every country in every part of the world minorities always claim they're being victimised or oppressed if things are not going as well as they anticipated ; it's the game of victimhood to constantly use race as an excuse to make the case that it's not your fault you cannot get employment , a better education , or a better car .
Incidentally I read a report in the Guardian last year that stated a sizeable amount of American whites feel they're being oppressed ; so if a sizeable amount of blacks and a sizeable amount of blacks feel they're being oppressed I guess it's back to a level playing field again
Thank you for defining the term. Usually that is argument enough in this matter. If you glance at the other side, you'll see that people think bad circumstances MUST prove the existence of oppression. It's a lazy explanation used for political purposes.
I was hoping this debate would develop a little further with people citing the statistics on racial disparities in various sectors. For example, blacks are sentenced more harshly than whites for the same crime on average. This seems pretty bad on it's face but has non-oppressive, non-racist explanations, such as the criminal history of the offender being accounted for by the judge and potential that higher crime areas create harsher judges. This would mean judges in black areas would be harsher in general, creating a national disparity, even though the individual judge is harsher to criminals across the board regardless of race.
Unfortunately, I don't expect this topic will get too far.
You're welcome 👌. It's a great debate topic and I agree with your assessment as in people thinking bad circumstances must prove oppression ; unfortunately when you argue against this type of reasoning you're called a racist because its the easy way out of actually providing an argument .
I've heard that argument several times regarding harsher sentences for blacks and again did some research into the matter and what you say is again spot on .
The police in the U S get an awful time , it seems at times to me reverse racism is at work when one sees the many decent white cops being portrayed as racist thugs because of the actions of others , again it's the easy way out just to brand all whites cops as racist thugs .
I hope the topic does get far as it's well worth debating
Imagine the time black cops must have. If white cops are racist, black cops are racist “uncle toms”. I hate that term. Or they are “black white supremacists” which is equally disgusting. And all because they aren’t doing what other people think black people should be doing...but whose the racists? I digress.
Clearly, you don't understand institutionalized racism. It really has NOTHING to do with individuals, and EVERYTHING to do with the institutions guiding our lives..
Institutional racism? I'm glad you mentioned it. Let me start by explaining what it isn't. Institutional racism is not the presence of racism where no apparent racism can be found. This is what most people think it is.
What it IS is "a form of racism expressed in the practice of social and political institutions." This means that an individual shop owner in the segregated south could have been perfectly non-racist, but nonetheless HAD to segregate his business because Institutional racism forced him to. Laws enforcing segregation, laws against interracial marriage, and laws supporting racially prejudicial economic practices were ALL examples of institutional racism, and they were all eliminated by the conservative lead civil rights movement.
The point? Institutional racism is NOT invisible racism. It is very visible and very visible and not hard to address. Whenever there is a racial disparity with no apparent racist cause, it is popular for people to blame institutional racism, but this usually isn't the case. When it is the case, people won't say it. That's because institutional racism still persists today in the form of racial quota's in higher education and quotas for affirmative action. It's not popular to call those racist.
Not many Amarel . When I was a kid the running joke was Phil Lynott ( he was a neigbour ) of Thin Lizzy fame was the only black man in Ireland .
We have a sizeable amount of blacks now and the police force have a poilicy to take on cops from all nationalities as it's useful when dealing with language barriers , national customs and courtesies.
Nowadays we have people from every part of the world and I think it's marvellous , most are decent people just looking for a better life than the one they left behind
We have taken in refugees from many countries and most have integrated into society ; we are pretty easy going and it's very rare one would see a race related crime so race relations are pretty good .
Polish people are the majority of non nationals here , followed by Nigerians and believe it or not British and possibly more to follow regards Brexit
people think bad circumstances MUST prove the existence of oppression. It's a lazy explanation used for political purposes.
Hello again, A.
People like ME think that.. If it's the lazy explanation, I'd LOVE to hear what your rigorous explanation might be...
I'm a simple man.. When I look around, I see black people living under bad circumstances.. In my simple mind, there's only TWO explanations for that.. They either live that way ON purpose, or they're oppressed.
I guess there's a 3rd option.. That would be that black people are SOOOO LAWLESS, that the prisons are overflowing with them, and THAT'S why they live the way they do.
Your problem is that you conflate race with culture.
The differences in rates of high school graduation , teen/unmarried pregnancy, violent crime, and home ownership (as well as affinity to grape Kool-Aid and ability to dance) are all CULTURAL.
That is why immigrants from Africa tend to do better economically overall than American Blacks. Racially they are the same, but they have completely different cultures, which in turn leads to different behavior, and as a result, different levels of success.
I guess there's a 3rd option.. That would be that black people are SOOOO LAWLESS, that the prisons are overflowing with them, and THAT'S why they live the way they do.
You said it, not me. Yes, they keep teaching their kids they are oppressed and to hate whites and police, and guess what vile group is there to enable them and egg them on. White liberals. That's a recipe for failure. Blacks that aren't brainwashed into this culture of doom and hate do well and have fine normal lives.
They choose to live the way they live , if they're being oppressed who's oppressing them and how ?
I'm from a country where we were genuinely oppressed for centuries , we worked in England when I R A bombing campaigns were going on and kept our heads down and grafted .
Americans traditionally are a nation of workers and doers why are American blacks whining and whinging about oppression get over it and man up stop constantly playing the victim card .
Which is ironic considering they do. The biggest problem that the black community has in your country is the fact that the rates for pregnancy out of wedlock are higher than any other racial or ethnic group. The other disproportionate fact revolving around this is that they also have significantly higher instances of single motherhood and unemployment. These are choices that black individuals are making, and it leads to poverty, crime, and a lack of education, the latter of which locks them into the lower class and a cyclical bond to the others.
You should note that there is nothing inherent in a persons skin color that would cause them to make these sorts of poor choices. These are the kinds of poor choices that are endemic to generational poverty, regardless of pigmentation.
You would think so. But your opposition would not think so. Unless you make your non-racist perspective clear in no uncertain terms, you will be called a racist.
You see racism everywhere because you keep banging the one drum as in everyone is racist who challenges your lazy assertions .
So no one would choose to live in less than optimal conditions so why do they live in them then ? They had no choices ?
Tell me this ,why do a fair proportion of blacks despite adverse circumstances elevate themselves from dreadful conditions and excell ? Maybe because they refuse to accept their lot and do something about it .
Excon will only accept one of his two options as in blacks choose to live this way OR it's oppression ; if you then say they choose to live this way .... you're a racist
The other option leaves you supporting the notion blacks are oppressed and no doubt a new best friend of Excon ☺️
I tried to explain it in language you'd understand.. I failed.. Lemme try again.. You don't want to live in squalor.. No sane person would.. Consequently, BELIEVING that a human being CHOOSES to live in squalor, means you think something is WRONG with them.. That's racism, period..
You have to resort to insults to make your point whys that ?
I perfectly understand three different languages so your insult is a failure on your part to actual debate your point .
You said .......BELIEVING that a human being CHOOSES to live in squalor, means you think something is WRONG with them.. That's racism, period.........
My reply ......
So going on your " logic " believing that a human being cannot elevate themselves from adverse circumstances means that you think they're are to stupid and lazy to do so ?
That makes you a racist how dare you insinuate that blacks have not the intelligence to better their lot ..... you're a racist using your reasoning
No I don't want to live in squalor , I agree no sane person would .
So blacks have no choice in the matter ? Again you refuse to answer what I asked you already as in .....
Who is forcing blacks to live this way ?
How do a fair proportion of blacks escape a life of squalor by elevating themselves from their circumstances?
Your attempt at making out I'm saying something is wrong with them suits your agenda as you refuse to acknowledge that I stated many elevate themselves from a life of squalor ?
Bet you will not answer what I keep asking you as it's so much easier to play the racism card isn't it ?
You really are bad on definitions as well as rational thought aren't you ?
racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
You think that a person living in squalor either chooses it, or they are being forced to live that way. You think those are the only two options. But almost every time it is the case that poor people made choices that put them there, not knowing their choices would put them there. You think a person makes a bad investment because they WANT to lose money?
Generational poverty effects all races. It has to do with poor choices that lead to poverty, it does not have to do with actually choosing poverty.
If it was about individuals, I'd agree with you.. But when it's a community, either there's something WRONG with the individuals, or there's outside influence going on..
What makes you think its not about individuals. All communities of poor people are made up of individuals.
If there is a family that is mired by generational poverty, stating that the individuals within the family make poor economic choices is not the same as saying that there is something WRONG with those people. Neither is it the same as saying the people are poor by virtue of their last name. This same logic of this example carries over to any kind of poverty, be it black urban poverty or white rural poverty, or any other kind of poverty wherein people are not enslaved but neither are they happy.
Or it could be that African American communities at the moment harbor a degenerate culture and family structure which they choose to practice in, leading to poverty, crime, and overall worse conditions? The even more pitiful fact about their state of affairs is that these things tend to be cyclical, and hence hard to avoid.
It unfortunately happens to be true. I have no prejudices over skin color, only over actions. And currently the black community is making self destructive decisions (In your country).
Approximately 22% of black Americans live in poverty. Though that is quite a bit higher than most other demographics (except for Native Americans), it still means that 78% are not in poverty. No, "black people" are not making bad decisions on the whole. But those who are making bad decisions are being told it is the result of oppression, which is why we are having this debate.
It's pretty telling when black Yale students are screaming about how oppressed they are. Being ivy league means they are some of the most privileged people in the US.
Je jure devant Dieu, l'anglais me donne des problèmes aujourd'hui. What I meant to say is black intercity communities, or slums. I just realized that I have been forgetting this all day.
The even more pitiful fact about their state of affairs is that these things tend to be cyclical, and hence hard to avoid.
Not as hard to avoid as you might think.
It looks much more pervasive than it really is, but if you pay attention, you will notice that LOTS of people leave the ghetto, go to college, and then move to the suburbs, etc..
Almost nobody goes to college, gets a decent job, then moves back to the ghetto, so the responsible and successful folks are not taken into account in conversations like these.
On a relative scale, much fewer people are able to experience social mobility in these communities than elsewhere. That was my point, that these things are relatively hard to escape compared to other demographics.
On a relative scale, much fewer people are able to experience social mobility in these communities than elsewhere. That was my point, that these things are relatively hard to escape compared to other demographics.
I think the problem with social mobility in the US, just like everywhere, is that particular behaviors are required to move up, and different behaviors cause one to move down.
This is where culture is critical.
It is a problem when for the sake of diversity, people want to appreciate and validate everyone's values and culture equally, despite the fact that different values result in making different decisions, which in turn lead to different outcomes.
Certain values lead to choices that result in being very rich.
Slightly different values lead to choices that result in being middle class.
Very different values lead to being stuck in poor communities with little to no social mobility.
Which is exactly what I am trying to say. Race is not the overriding factor, culture is. And if the US as a nation (or the world for that manner) continues to insist all cultures are equal, and all values are equal, then we will continue to experience this kind of results among all ethnic communities, not just African Americans. The world needs to have the fortitude to gut the problem and address it at its core. It is your actions that land you at the level of accomplishment you reside, and yes, in rare instances, the oppression of someone else. However, that it not the case in this situation. Les individus doivent apprendre à être personnellement responsables de leurs actes.
if the US as a nation (or the world for that manner) continues to insist all cultures are equal, and all values are equal, then we will continue to experience this kind of results among all ethnic communities
Omg you stupid, stupid boy. Stop dividing American culture along ethnic lines you racist throwback. Black culture is a part of American culture too. Are you honestly from the 14th century?
Stop dividing American culture along ethnic lines you racist throwback. The word ethnic refers specifically to culture (which is an observable set of learned values, assumptions, and behaviors) as opposed to race (which is a category based on phenotypes) so dividing by culture is by definition not racist.
Black culture is a part of American culture too.
Sort of. The American macroculture is comprised of microcultures /subcultures, and these have enough similarities that they can exist in the same macroculture. However, there are large enough differences between microcultures that it is useful to discuss them as separate in order to discuss those differences.
Generally, a microculture includes beliefs, values, or behaviors that accord with the prevailing values of the Macroculture, but with some differences. Sometimes particular values, beliefs, and behaviors of a microculture are in opposition to prevailing values of the macroculture.
Obviously, most cultural components bleed across the spectrum of the macroculture. This is how hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza and tacos became "American foods," and how Rock & Roll (a syncretism between country music and the blues) became "American Music."
Values are no different. Most values range in a spectrum within all ethnic groups, and make appearances in most subcultures. However, there are some subcultures that have concentrations (compared to other subcultures) of particular values, attitudes, and behaviors, which were formally and informally taught to them by family, friends, and others in their communities.
This in no way implies that everyone in an ethnic group believes all the same things, or behaves in the same way. It merely indicates tendencies of people who grow up in particular microcultures to believe and behave in accordance with the norms of their microculture.
These cultural differences are why there is a much higher rate of unmarried pregnancy among Black Americans than among Asian Americans, why the high school gradation rates, crime rates, and choices of profession differ between American ethnic groups.
As in all things, individuals make their own choices, and these choices may or may not accord with the microculture or the prevailing macroculture.
May the lord have mercy. You get angry at me when I do so for the purpose of contextualization, by are perfectly at ease with the idea of division by racial, sexual, and religious boundaries being the literal base of the liberal message. It is the leftist ideology to divide people along these lines consistently and without mercy. I have trouble remembering the last major speech given by a left wing candidate that did not divide American culture by these standards.
Or it could be that African American communities at the moment harbor a degenerate culture and family structure which they choose to practice in, leading to poverty, crime, and overall worse conditions?
How is it possible that you are such an ignorant racist idiot?
The only ignorance I see is the blind eye that the liberal foundation has turned towards a very real and heartbreaking situation in black communities. Poverty, rates of education, criminal activity, everything in this order is almost universally increased or decreased for the worst in poor African American neighborhoods. Its not racism to recognize that a culture and habit of a community is actively causing its own problems. Your solution is not to delve into the heart of the matter, rather it is to lighty dance about it, throwing government spending at it and telling them they are victims of institutionalized racism, rather than of themselves. Mais vous ne pas que, compte tenu de toutes les choses.
You can't see that you are ignorant because you are ignorant. Normal people call it a vicious circle.
the blind eye that the liberal foundation has turned towards a very real and heartbreaking situation in black communities
You just accused blacks of being degenerates responsible for their own poverty you stupid, nonsensical moron. Now you think it's heartbreaking that they are degenerates responsible for their own poverty? And Liberals are to blame? How is it even possible that you are so devoid of anything resembling intelligence? Do you think using Google translate makes your idiotic self-contradictions valid?
Poverty, rates of education, criminal activity, everything in this order is almost universally increased or decreased for the worst in poor African American neighborhoods.
And I just attacked you for blaming them for it. Are you literally retarded?
Mais vous ne pas que, compte tenu de toutes les choses
Deje de usar google translate ignorante, payaso estúpidamente redundante
I accused black culture of being degenerate, which it is, evidenced by the fact that they idolize thuggery, misogyny, the 'hood', and other nonsensical destructive concepts. It is black culture that is responsible for their slum communities, not degenerate individuals. This idea has been repeated throughout this thread, and numerous times by me. The funny thing is that you call me ignorant, even though I can accurately read and derive meaning from an opponents argument, which is obviously not true of you, considering you fail to do so on a regular basis. How can you expect to give a meaningful rebuttal if you cannot understand the argument you wish to dispute? As for your comment on google translate, I will not even go there, considering it is besides the point and false. Les Français sont aussi en mesure de faire des erreurs avec leurs mots, idiot.
I accused black culture of being degenerate, which it is
But no it isn't. It's just that you are a racist piece of shit.
evidenced by the fact that they idolize thuggery, misogyny, the 'hood', and other nonsensical destructive concepts.
I'm afraid you are just so far beyond stupid that it's borderline epic. Does Obama idolize thuggery, misogyny, the "hood" and other nonsensical, destructive concepts? Your theory that every black person thinks the same way is quite literally from the 14th century. Poor black people have more in common with poor white people in terms of culture than they do with other black people in the upper class. Have you ever even set foot inside a classroom?
Bugger off. I'm done with debating your straw-chewing KKK bullshit.
I never said every individual does. If anything I meant their popular culture. As in their music and other forms of consumed media. And on the topic of thinking that every black person thinks the same, that is ironic considering the left community absolutely crucifies individuals who step outside their political and social expectations. When you can stop taking false meaning from my words, or at the very least stop convoluting them, then perhaps we can talk. Until then, keep your emotional and misguided rampages out of my sight.
You are looking for racism, so you cannot see explanations that are not based in racism. Generational poverty is problematic for everyone who lives in poverty, regardless of race. The history of discrimination against black people put more black people at an economic disadvantage for longer than other historically poor groups. After removing those systems of discrimination, black people were still generally at an economic disadvantage, naturally. Overcoming generational poverty takes time, but it does happen. It happens in every group. Immagrants always started poor and became better off over time. So what happened with black people? The Great Society.
Since Democrats were no longer racists, they decided to go into black communities and give them some awesome public housing projects. There were some stipulations of course. No able bodied black man could be in a home receiving assistance. So white social workers operating under the guidance of Democratic policies (all well-meaning I’m sure..) would go into the projects and knock on doors to make sure there is no father figure in the home. After a generation or two of people that are not only in poverty, but who are given incentives to stay there, and barriers to get out, voila persistent black poverty. It’s not because black people are forced to be poor by the racist right wingers. All poor people (of whom blacks have a higher percentage) are incentivized to stay poor by a social “safety” net that has ensnared them. Add to that the negative feedback loop of a culture of poverty that breeds poverty as well as perpetuates it and people start to think they never had a chance.
That and educational funding via property tax makes for lower quality education where it is needed the most, which is one reason property tax should be abolished.
I know I go hard on you a lot. It's because we disagree about so much. But I should thank you in this case for at least putting it out there. You seem to be the only serious one on your side. I had hoped for more.
You forgot to mention that 70 percent of blacks are born out of wedlock while daddy is in and out of jail and daddy's baby-momma is whoring around to get money for smokes on welfare.