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Debate Info

34
30
Yes, There Are Many Examples No, People Are Overreacting
Debate Score:64
Arguments:44
Total Votes:79
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 Yes, There Are Many Examples (24)
 
 No, People Are Overreacting (21)

Debate Creator

KNHav(1957) pic



Are Our Rights Being Taken Away

**Our rights are, and have been taken away. They are being taken away in a sneaky and tricky way. We are being pick pocketed and barely even noticed, till it is almost too late! Its like taking candy from a baby!

Yes, There Are Many Examples

Side Score: 34
VS.

No, People Are Overreacting

Side Score: 30
3 points

1 of our rights that has been stolen is Religious Freedom

Atheism has raged against any sign of religious faith in our communities and methodically is taking away our freedom of religion.

Not because the Christians or Jews are overbearing and oppressive. Not because people of faith suppressed them. And not because we demanded conformity to our faith.

Christianity did nothing at all to create hardships or persecution of the atheists among us.

Atheism is scientific, not a protected Constitutional Right of Religious Freedom.

Atheism is based entirely on physical proof using scientific theories to explain the doctrines and beliefs of faith accepted by religion(s).

Atheism rejects everything that is accepted by faith, if absent of physical scientific proof.

We did not provoke atheist by requiring conformity to any religious faith.

But, Christianity has suffered from atheist world views, merely because articles of faith offend them.

Articles representing our basic common principles, found in neutral articles of faith like the 10 commandments, or right hand on the Bible in court proceedings are under constant threat of removal along with articles celebrating holidays like Christmas.

We gave success to commercializing Christmas through our giving gifts in honor of our faith. We are the force behind “red to black” of Black Friday, padding the financials of many successful services, entertainment, and retail sales.

83% of Americans identify themselves with Christian Judeo Faiths. But, representations of Judeo Christianity seen or acknowledged visibility in our society is offensive and suppressed by the scientifically oriented atheist. Who claim any display of faith offends them, and they feel they have a religious right to "Not Be Offended" by the religious culture within our society.

So therefore. Every year atheist raise more and more objections. They claim to need protections from being publically offended. They suppress faith in every community, accusing any evidence or thread of faith robs them of their right to live amongst us, their religious neighbors, because any dign of faith in God anywhere and everywhere offends them!

Atheist view signs of faith, including many neutral articles representing the commonality of diverse religions faiths. Claiming every public display is an infraction of the separation of church and state.

In a letter from a revered author, thought to be the father of Classical Liberalism and noted as an inspiration to the founding fathers. John Locke said, “

So this is the real deal, most people believe in a higher power, even if they don’t attend church. And there are a many atheist that actually could care less if "Under God" is in the pledge, or if 10 Commandment statues are in the court house.

So there goes one of our rights, hidden in offense, appealing to our tolerance. We hate to offend. But when an offense becomes societies method to oppress our religious freedom it is Un-American.

Then our freedom of speech.

Political correct speech polices every word spoken, and suppresses the freedom of speech. Binding it by politically incorrect definitions and accusing everyday words spoken not ill intended. They accuse people using common phrases of being motivated by racism, disrespect, and discrimination.

Does the pressures of government and society, that demands we alter our manner of speech to meet politically correct standards feel free? Should we allow society to dictate and vilify any common words we use in our everyday speech, if the word has a possibility to be personally interpreted as offensive, and identified as politically incorrect speech?

Does this feel free to anyone?

Ill tell you, Its not free speech! They are taking your right of free speech away, and its bias and selective, and mostly applies to suppress majorities to avoid offending minority groups from race to sexual orientation. But, not a really a 2 way street.

And we shouldn’t have our words censored! Hate speech threats and overt words of prejudice, yes. But that’s the extent of acceptability. We should not accept censorship of our Speech!

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
Cartman(18192) Disputed
3 points

Atheism has raged against any sign of religious faith in our communities and methodically is taking away our freedom of religion.

Not true. Religious people started taking away religious rights.

But, Christianity has suffered from atheist world views, merely because articles of faith offend them.

There is no Christian suffering.

Articles representing our basic common principles, found in neutral articles of faith like the 10 commandments, or right hand on the Bible in court proceedings are under constant threat of removal along with articles celebrating holidays like Christmas.

There is absolutely no threat to celebrating Christmas.

We gave success to commercializing Christmas through our giving gifts in honor of our faith. We are the force behind “red to black” of Black Friday, padding the financials of many successful services, entertainment, and retail sales.

This is not restricting your religious rights.

83% of Americans identify themselves with Christian Judeo Faiths. But, representations of Judeo Christianity seen or acknowledged visibility in our society is offensive and suppressed by the scientifically oriented atheist. Who claim any display of faith offends them, and they feel they have a religious right to "Not Be Offended" by the religious culture within our society.

You are not being suppressed.

So therefore. Every year atheist raise more and more objections. They claim to need protections from being publically offended. They suppress faith in every community, accusing any evidence or thread of faith robs them of their right to live amongst us, their religious neighbors, because any dign of faith in God anywhere and everywhere offends them!

There is not a shred of truth to this claim.

Political correct speech polices every word spoken, and suppresses the freedom of speech. Binding it by politically incorrect definitions and accusing everyday words spoken not ill intended. They accuse people using common phrases of being motivated by racism, disrespect, and discrimination.

If you don't go to jail your right to speech is not violated.

And we shouldn’t have our words censored! Hate speech threats and overt words of prejudice, yes. But that’s the extent of acceptability. We should not accept censorship of our Speech!

Do you think it is ok to say naughty words like fuck or shit?

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
KNHav(1957) Disputed
2 points

Atheism has raged against any sign of religious faith in our communities and methodically is taking away our freedom of religion.

Not true. Religious people started taking away religious rights.

Please expand with examples and sources for why you have this opinion. We can’t discuss without understanding the reasons to your views.

But, Christianity has suffered from atheist world views, merely because articles of faith offend them.

There is no Christian suffering.

Please take time to read these articles and other supportive material.

If you do not, please do not bother with to continue with this debate.

I’m not interested in factless closed opinions of people who are unwilling to consider anything outside of their narrow opinion they currently hold. Its one thing to be open to view and hear an opposing view, and still walk away convinced of your opinion. But it’s a waste of time to argue with a closed soundproof door.

So hopefully you’re the 1st type of debater, because the 2nd type isn’t for the purpose of being personally challenged and to educate your opinion by the points of the debate.

Here are a few link articles with examples of suppression of the religious freedoms in America today:

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2013/09/17/7-examples-of-discrimination-against-christians-in-america-n1701966/page/full

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-08-21-religion-freedom-persecution_n.htm

http://mobile.wnd.com/2012/09/persecution-of-christians-on-rise-in-u-s/

And the pdf on this site details events unfairly targeting Christians The joint report by Texas-based Liberty Institute and Washington-based Family Research Council

Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2012/09/persecution-of-christians-on-rise-in-u-s/#2ixATmuHpOgFQ8Um.99

AND WRONG! There are Christians who are being suppressed in America, and forced to spend their money on litigations or other difficulties faced.

The point is WE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO!

Religious freedom DOES NOT mean

1- that we get to keep our heads,

NOR does it mean

2 - we get to stay out of jail when professing Christianity!

It’s a right and a freedom! And 100% of that freedom belongs to us all, including Christians!

You don’t get to ration religious freedoms!

You don’t get to only allow 25 % or 50% or even 99% of religious freedom!

You don’t get to take away, NOT even 1% of religious rights and freedom!

I’ll give 1 example of suppression regarding "Christmas."

We have people in our free “tolerant” society today, banning our religious articles of faith,. Even as simple as “Christ” in the WORD Christmas!

Now that may sound kind of sounds harmless to you, right?

Who cares if the checker at Macy’s wishes us a Merry Christmas, sounds right?

But see, that’s not what’s happening. “Merry Christmas” HAS become politically incorrect. And banned!

"Politically Correct" has become the standard, acceptable speech, it has become Freedom of Speech Censorship!

Society and even Government Courts have allowed the supression of Christian religious freedoms.

So, Pressure is so great in our society to be absent of Christianity everywhere in public, that many stores now are forbidding employees to say “Merry Christmas”

Which tramples on the employees rights, and the customers rights!

Are we, or arent we a tolerant society?

Why is it even considered allowed or in any way acceptable in our American society, let alone passed in courts in some areas; where a “Christmas Tree” is BANNED in our public square?!?!?

Christmas IS exclusively a Christian Holiday. No matter how commercialized, Dec 25th is a date we chose as a holiday to honor the birth of Jesus.

No matter what reason we chose the date, its actually none of anyone’s business to question or speculate our doctrines of faith, your only responsibility on things like this here in our free country is to BE TOLERANT, AND NOT SUPPRESS RELIGION IN OUR FREE SOCIETY. Well it was a festival for PAGANS, then Christianity replaced the druid holiday... blah blah blah.

BUT Look, It doesn’t matter why we picked the date. Its our doctrine of faith, and as far back as before America was even found, Christians celebrated Christmas Day! And its none of anyone’s business if it was in a different date in Rome or another date in England. and now Dec. 25th

That’s OUR BUSINESS!

The point is it became Dec 25th is the date we chose to celebrate our doctrine of faith regarding the birth of Jesus, it is our holiday!

And YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DENY US OUR RIGHTS!

It is a holiday that honors the birth of Jesus. Secular and the non religious are welcome to celebrate it as well, any way you like, but you are not welcome to force us Christians to conform our holiday to your anti RELIGIOUS secular idea of our holiday! Live and let Live!

And since it's our Christian holiday, we get to celebrate it publicly without suppression AND we can publically everywhere we go CALL IT CHRISTMAS!!!

In school, at work, in the DMV, anywhere we are. And without anyone at all able to force us to not discuss it or call it anything else, but what it is CHRISTMAS!!!!

Since WHEN is it OK to require the renaming of a holiday belonging to any particular RELIGIOUS OR EVEN CULTURAL GROUP?

Isn’t forcing Christians to be silenced and unseen by our “supposedly tolerant society” an assault against religious freedom?

Making Christians conform to anti religious ideas, or to conform their holiday to other non Christian religions, is absolutely a BIG DEAL, its an assault to the freedom of religion!

It’s the EROSION of religious freedom that has progressed, a little more, and a little more each year!

It’s truly pick pocketing American Citizens of our Constitutional Rights!

This has become an anti Christian society, and has boldly infiltrated into every area of our society. And it is In-Tolerant of Christians and Christian Faith(s).

If Religion is censored then that IS religious supression. It is an assault on religious rights and freedoms!

And it has become and IS heavily censored today more than ever!

Society applies harsh pressures against Christian religion and religious open free expression, and that is an assault!

Its purpose is to remove religion, specifically Christian religions from our society!

“Christ” in “Christmas” IS this holiday.

To honor America’s Christian Citizens, and to NOT suppress their religious freedom, society needs to let Christian faith be open among us, and to be “tolerant” of our religious culture. 3

Americans should protect the holiday “Christ”mas, and protect the freedoms of the Christians that celebrate it!

It is NOT Constitutional to suppress this common celebration by Christians on Dec 25th.

Many, Many, Many churches in America celebrate this Christian Holiday.

None of us Christians demand non Christian to celebrate Christmas, its optional if you’d like to or not, it’s up to you.

And you can call it anything you want.

BUT, You can’t suppress Christians from publically displaying their Christian celebration and publically calling it CHRISTMAS!

And how aren’t we more concerned?

Are we that apathetic concerning Constitutional rights?

Why does the word “Christmas” need to be forced to conform to fit everyone in our society, and at the expense of our religious freedom, and at the expense of our open public celebration of our faith, Christianity, and OUR Christmas holiday?

Articles representing our basic common principles, found in neutral articles of faith like the 10 commandments, or right hand on the Bible in court proceedings are under constant threat of removal along with articles celebrating holidays like Christmas.

There is absolutely no threat to celebrating Christmas.

I said enough on this in above response

We gave success to commercializing Christmas through our giving gifts in honor of our faith. We are the force behind “red to black” of Black Friday, padding the financials of many successful services, entertainment, and retail sales.

This is not restricting your religious rights.

Again response above, can you please give details AFTER reading my points, and if you are not convinced of my opinion, then please present a relative argument.

83% of Americans identify themselves with Christian Judeo Faiths. But, representations of Judeo Christianity seen or acknowledged visibility in our society is offensive and suppressed by the scientifically oriented atheist. Who claim any display of faith offends them, and they feel they have a religious right to "Not Be Offended" by the religious culture within our society.

You are not being suppressed.

1st of all I don't personally need to be supressed to stand for freedom of religion. Inaction and apathy are irresponsible.

Here are some examples of real, and current religious rights under attack in America taken from links above:

!!

"California Christians Found “Not Guilty” of Reading Bible Near Government Offices: "A court has said that a pair of Christians were ‘allowed’ to read the Bible aloud outside the Department of Motor Vehicles in Hemet, California. Wasn’t it kind of the government courts in California to say that these Christians were allowed to have their rights to free religious expression?

...Back in 2011 Mark Mackey and Bret Coronado were arrested and charged with misdemeanor offenses for reading the Bible outside the DMV location. ... But on August 13, Superior Court Judge Timothy Freer found the men ‘not guilty’ of any offenses. ...Interestingly, the judge also pointed out that the law prosecutors tried to invoke was likely unconstitutional as it gave law enforcement overbroad powers to quash public gatherings in the first place. Sadly, this case did not go toward settling the constitutionality of the law, but it was a victory of sorts to have the judge even mention the fact."

Yes, there were actually Americans arrested for reading the Bible on public property. What do you think the chances are that two Muslims reading the Quran would have been arrested under the same circumstances?"

!!

"1) Florida Ministry Told To Choose Between Jesus And Helping The Poor:”

For the past 31 years, the Christian ministry has been providing food to the hungry in Lake City, Fla. without any problems. But all that changed when they said a state government worker showed up to negotiate a new contract. ...

(A) state agriculture department official told them they would not be allowed to receive USDA food unless they removed portraits of Christ, the Ten Commandments, a banner that read 'Jesus is Lord' and stopping giving Bibles to the needy." When the government tells the Christian Service Center it has to give up on Christ or quit using USDA food to help the poor, that’s religious discrimination. !!

So therefore. Every year atheist raise more and more objections. They claim to need protections from being publically offended. They suppress faith in every community, accusing any evidence or thread of faith robs them of their right to live amongst us, their religious neighbors, because any dign of faith in God anywhere and everywhere offends them!

There is not a shred of truth to this claim."

Yes they do, there are many law suits per year inhibiting the expression of Christian faith from everywhere it is openly professed. And some of those law suits were successful.

Political correct speech polices every word spoken, and suppresses the freedom of speech. Binding it by politically incorrect definitions and accusing everyday words spoken not ill intended. They accuse people using common phrases of being motivated by racism, disrespect, and discrimination.

If you don't go to jail your right to speech is not violated.

No but society applies bully like behavior toward anyone using words, or phrases, or any speech, (written or spoken) to intimidate and censor.;And that is a type of restraint.

Some people have lost jobs, positions, scholarships, and all kinds of punishments as a result of an increasingly overbearing society policing speech. A growing monster of censorship and a witch hunt have been let loose on well meaning citizens. People who just said something the WRONG WAY, OR USED A “POLITICALLY INCORRECT” WORD!

And we shouldn’t have our words censored anyway! Hate speech threats and overt words of prejudice, yes. But that’s the extent of acceptability. We should not accept censorship of our Speech!

Do you think it is ok to say naughty words like fuck or shit?

People can say those words if they want. There is no law against words. But if you talk like that at Chuckey Cheese, the Mouse will probably ask you to leave.

And Chuckee Cheese has every right to make you leave.

And that’s not what I’m talking about.

I’m from a Phila suburb. I have said “youz guys” my whole life. It’s common around here, and if you say that now, which I of course do, to or are overheard saying by it by a militant politically correct feminist, you may experience harsh society shaming, society censorship.

Regardless if "youz guys" is a neutral phrase in your manner of speech and area. "Youz guys" as I have always heard and used it as referring to a group with non specific gender.

But because “guys” is frequently defined to be just males, it's politically incorrect and discrimination, (ignoring the girls in the group) And it doesn’t matter what I meant or am used to!

So we have to learn to be careful of every inocent word and overthink everything that comes out of our mouths. Isnt that an unwarranted restraint and a prison of us and of speech!

We are being shamed to control speech to only allow speech accepted within a standard of politically correct censorship, or face peer shaming from society!

So, what does this mean, we loose free speech or we face society shaming!

NOW, lets APPLY society shaming and pollitical correctness to matters of PUBLIC SAFETY!!!

San Bernardino faced a militant style Islamic radical terror attack a few years ago. The Muslim couple were planning the attack, stock piling weapons in their garage.

Several different Neighbors, who literally had concerns about packages and activity at the their Muslim’s neighbors house, FAILED to act on their suspicions. If they had, several people would not have died or been injured.

And the best part of the story is Muslim’s like this couple have actually said they are comfortable here in America and have less fear of being caught here in America than elsewhere. Why? Because they feel protected, because of the personality of Americans, they would choose to be silent before being considered a racist, or a racial profilers, or say anything related to Muslims in order to avoid being politically incorrect, and will avoid society shaming at all cost.

So these neighbors allowed a tragedy like this, rather than alert authorities and face the potential risk of appearing politically incorrect. And not just 1 neighbor, several neighbors!

So if politically correct and incorrect speech has that much censorship influence, don’t you think it’s a big bully problem.

It doesn’t have to be penned into a law to be an assault on the freedom of speech!*

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

I totally agree! The religions insist that WE live by their rules but won't allow us to live by ours. "...make no law respecting an establishment of religion"! If they would only stick to that part of the Constitution we would have few problems. I don't give a damn how they choose to live .... within their religion ... I don't have to.

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
Atrag(5666) Disputed
1 point

John Locke said, “

So this is the real deal

He did love his colloquialism ye old Lockey boy.

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
1 point

Anyone who believes that we are not losing our Constitutional rights, is like the frog that sits in slowly boiling water, until it's too late. Our enemies have been slowly chipping away at our God given rights. They can do this because they have controlled our educational system for several decades. Year after year, they have dumbed down America's youth, to the point where most of them couldn't even tell you what's in our bill of rights. If that's not a recipe for disaster, I don't know what is. They can take away our rights because most people don't even know what those rights are. Many of them don't even care, as long as those government checks keep showing up. Sheeple. Every single one of them.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

I agree. It is just like a frog in boiling water!

Good analagy. And It was clearly stated

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

Hmm. That sounds like an argument to improve the education system. Guess you're voting Bernie.

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
1 point

Yes, but it isn't just the conservatives who feel violated...

Eminent domain has been expanded to allow people's homes to be taken not just for things like building a common road but for putting up a more profitable resort or shopping mall.

Despite the Supreme Court currently upholding Roe vs Wade the rights of women to have abortions if they choose is under constant assault by a very pushy minority of the general population.

The right to vote is under assault by recent expansions of the rights of corporations to fund the political processes in their favor.

And I would argue the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is directly threatened for our children when basic elementary and primary public schooling is assaulted both in terms of its content and its funding.

You see it goes both ways.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Yes, but it isn't just the conservatives who feel violated...

Agreed

Eminent domain has been expanded to allow people's homes to be taken not just for things like building a common road but for putting up a more profitable resort or shopping mall.

Agreed, it extends futher into defining monopolies, eminent domain, and gov taking portions of agriculture from grower to control prices.

Like the unnecessary struggle of a raisen farmer in Calif

http://modernfarmer.com/2015/06/raisin-grower-wins-supreme-court-battle/

The prophet margin was already stretched!

That is not the same as being the only cable or cell phone provider.

Idiots, don't think much further into the fair details, beyond their entitlements!

Despite the Supreme Court currently upholding Roe vs Wade the rights of women to have abortions if they choose is under constant assault by a very pushy minority of the general population.

I personally do not view Abortion as a right.

Although morally I am opposed to abortion, my argument is financial. Costvs Value

We have a federal budget, and much is waste!

There are other budget expenses that have priority.

I think being a single mom especially in poverished areas is difficult and epidemic.

But, there are less expensive preventative choices than providing an abortion. And it removes the moral confict of abortion.

I took #'s from planned parenthood to compare. Many of these are free or a low cost, or provided by health insurance. I'll mention just a few here

Birth Control Implant - Good for 3 years of Protected Sex

Cost $0 - $800 to Implant in Arm (Convenient!)

Birth Control Shot - Good for 3 Months of Protected Sex

Cost $0 - $150 (Convenient!)

Morning After Pill - Good for 1 Day of Unprotected Sex

Cost $0 - $50

Abortion - Good to Correct 1 Day of Unprotected Sex

Cost up to $1500 For 1st Trimester

The right to vote is under assault by recent expansions of the rights of corporations to fund the political processes in their favor.

Agree for the most part.

Contributions are acceptable but with Caps.

Also, I view Voting in America is strictly ONLY the Right of American Citizens!

And I would argue the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is directly threatened for our children when basic elementary and primary public schooling is assaulted both in terms of its content and its funding.

You see it goes both ways.

This is complicated, there have been many structural supports added in low income areas from early intervention, head start, and prek counts and class structural support in school. We cant throw enough money to bring it to acceptable and competitive standards.

Phila was on the right track, and that support started early and ended late!

But in the end society got pissed, the city got pissed and the state. And the momentum became forced and the gains became stagnant or lost.

The answer was to keep doing what they started doing, and also pull in struggling moms in for on-site self improvement programs, while involving them in their childs education.

And also, involve the strongest people in their neighborhood community, especially other parents, and child groups with child leaders, with accountability for excellence.

If they can't reach up, not even "Socialism" will change anything. Actually Socialism will hurt them even more! Its going to take more reach up and pull up on their end, and more pull up on our end.

Unfortunately we have many unequal factors that exist everywhere, and no one wants to address portions of the answers, because it simply "politically incorrect!"

There are kids that have more to overcome than others. The best we can do is make as much available to them. And hopefully they will make it work for their kids.

I am totally for as much support especially in pre school and lower grades.

But nothing will make the impact we'd really like to see until there is more social pressure to involve mothers who are less encouraged to teach their child at home, and also help the mothers with basic household management skills from finances to organization.

Many differences from the start are contributing factors and it isnt something you can buy.

In many suburb schools, out of 40 kids entering kindergarten and 1st grade maybe 2-4 kids are not keeping up with the class. And typically these kids don't do better than below average through school. 4 out of 40 for 1 reason or another didn't gain the same skills as the 36 to 38.

Now in poor performing areas you have the opposite. Out of 40 kids 32 - 34 go in NOT ready for school and 6 -8 have age appropriate skills.

Its actually tbe most unrealistic thing to think anyone is going to fix things in their education to be even unless they are willing to drive their own progress to a large degree.

The schools need more funding. But, another factor take just the kids in 1st & 2nd years as basic as they are and compare 2 schools and home views of education.

The Radnor child goes into school with advanced solid skills. Even if the childs mother is the primary teacher without added programs.

Although its a huge difference in income, the vaue of time the child spends in educational interactions with parents and programs is different. And its not something you can equalize the outcome.

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
1 point

Yep...our civil rights are indeed melting faster than a snowcone in Phoenix in August.

It all began with the passing of the Patriot Act, some 14 years ago. That tyrannical little piece of legislature took away about half of your Bill of Rights.

It has since only gotten worse.

Do you know you can be now held in a jail cell for three days before charges are Even filed? And that cops can do search and seizures without obtaining a warrant?

And that you are on camera virtually the entire time you are out in public?

America is now basically a police state. Cops kill innocent people every week. And yet they rarely are reprimanded, and they keep getting more customers funding. Many big city police forces are better equipped than the militaries of many entire nations!

Yet, violent crime has been dropping in America on the whole for several years. So their Wehrmacht like buildup is totally uncalled for.

Except for the reason they know many Americans are sick of this...and a civil war....a Revolution could be coming.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

This is long, but, I hope it gives you valuable thoughts.

I have concerns about Trump, mostly on his articulation and experience, not just political experience but just being adequately studied on political procedure and current events.

He would need a really strong cabinet, in areas he's not strong in.

But as far as the statement you made here, it’s not actually a real or accurate evaluation of Trump nor the situation surrounding Trump.

These statement and other accusations are not sensible, logical arguments.

Trump actually WANTS to protect people’s rights. Including women and blacks.

You have to understand the personality of Trump….

I’m a women and he doesn’t bother me.

He is a hot head. He is not politically correct. He steps in shit when he opens his mouth, NOT because his motives are bad or evil, not because he is a dictator, and not because he's a racist, or hates women.

It’s because he never really had to package his words carefully, and he didn’t intend to run for office.

I’m not saying Trump is qualified in my opinion to be president.

But, I am saying:

Many things you see at this time are provoked.

HE, Trump, is a hot head, he is provoked.

Black Lives Matter are hotheads they are provoked.

AND they exploit and MEDIA exploits.

Much is taken out of context.

Many things Trump has ever said in the past is just Trump being Trump. A celebrity, a big talker, a hot head, a real estate tycoon, a guy from New York.

To vilifying Trump is actually inaccurate and off base.

He is not, and he should not be an excuse for a bunch of people to make a platform, and lead the country by “mob rules behavior,” and “force a power of influence and authority” over everyone, through intimidation.

I do have logically based concerns about Trump as president.

Such as –

Cruz brought to our attention that Trump is in litigation and may be sued for an expensive real estate course he ran, so being involved in that, depending on the details may be a true, tangible, measurable and factual concern.

The series of off the cuff remarks made through his lifetime, many out of context, and others in my opinion are just mouthy hot head words without a politically correct filter!

I didn’t like his reaction to Meagan Kelly during and after the first debate.

But I don't see it as “hating women or devaluing women,” I see it as he was backed into a corner, and he really isn’t accustomed to. And he doesn't adjust his reactions.

He simply is just rash, with brute honesty, wears his feelings and attitudes on his sleeve, and honestly just opens his mouth and steps in shit, and he does so in reaction at the moment, and in the heat of the moment.

Trump is like many people I have experienced, and maybe, even a little like myself.

So I get the crap that falls out of his mouth in the heat of the moment.

But to vilify him by these things is more of a Salem witch hunt, than a true reasonable evaluation. I can see why some people would say or feel things they do, or form opinions by what he has said or says. But there is a HUGE overreaction to all of it! And, it isn’t balanced!

Here is Trump in a Nutshell:

He is a High D personality traitss

with a secondary High I personality traits

He has a low level S personality traits

He had a low level C personality traits

And that is most likely his DISC profile.

(below is a basic view of DISC personality traits)

D - dominant traits

I - Inspiring traits

S – Serving traits

C – Cautious traits

So, I’ll explain WHY accusing Trump of having an interest or a motive in taking rights away is an off base accusation.

1st of all, ask yourself why??? Why Would He? And, Why Would He logically Want To?

1st put yourself in his perspective…. It may surprise you.

Your really not as important as you think you are to Trump.

Or, Let’s Rephrase that to understand exactly what I mean by that.

He actually doesn’t NEED to be President.

I really think Trump was drinking a beer and said ”Shit, I can fix this, maybe I should run for president!”

There’s a funny of Trump Facebook post that says that. But, the real funny part of the post is, I think its closer to being True than not true!!

He doesn’t NEED to be president, He doesn’t NEED you, and he doesn’t NEED to make you important to himself at all.

He doesn’t even need your approval in life, and he doesn’t NEED, or WANT your rights!

Your Life, Your Local Economy, Your Future Security, Your Unemployment or Your Ability or Inability to Charge a Reasonable Bid as a Handyman because of Competing Below Market Bids on Projects by under the table alien workers - that take away Your Jobs and Your Income Potential and then Leave You at a Disadvantage, Unable to take care of yourself and your family!

None of these things, that affect you, actually will ever affect TRUMP or HIS FAMILY, AT ALL.

If Mexican immigrants get the jobs you didn’t get. Trump doesn’t have to pay your mortgage, your electric, your grocery bill, and your education etc… To Trump, whether you have a job or not, really doesn’t have ANY effect on Trump’s life nor anyone he cares about!

As far as terrorism, AND your safe traveling on commercial airplanes, that is the least important thing PERSONALLY to Trump! Why?

BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY HAS HIS OWN PLANE!

He doesn’t NEED or WANT your social security check, your unemployment check, he doesn’t have to pay your healthcare or Obamacare premiums, he doesn’t compete in your job market, he doesn’t walk your streets and encounter your neighborhood crime, nor does he encounter your areas crime done by undocumented immigrants. The reality is, some illegals are or could be potential rapists murderers or thieves!

WAIT A MINUTE, How dare he say that about illegal aliens, You BIGOT. There I said it for you!

Now, YOU WAIT A MINUTE. Here is some common sense thoughts you should also consider when forming your opinions.

Actually, illegals come in the USA, without required records.

We have no idea who or where they are, and we have no ability to do any homework on them, on their background, or even varify THEIR REAL NAMES!

Because there is no ID or Passport required when you are Illegal!

So, through legal immigration, we are more able to reject the entrance of criminals, and drug smugglers.

Another thought, and please understand, I’m making a point not being cruel.

But, the ones who come illegally, come from the poorest and most crime ridden areas of Mexico.

These are the people who are the least likely to ever afford to come legally.

Now, make comparisons between illegals and legals.

Allowing legals in the USA - We have more ability to vet them and reject criminals, because it is required that they have records, and IDs and a Passports.

But illegals, there is a higher chance of letting in criminals. Why?

1 - Because criminals can’t easily come here legally, so they HAVE to come illegally

and

2 - Most illegals are coming from the poorest areas that have the highest concentration of crime. and illegals are traveling from these areas and with criminals. What they are fleeing, high crime, and poverty and desperation is what they are bringing with them. Without our ability to vet them, no records, no health records, no criminal backgrounds, no Proof of ID or Passports!

And

3 - Mwxico is more than happy to send their criminals over to be our problem, instead of theirs!

Back to Trump:

He is a citizen like us, looking at areas the USA is messing up, and he is looking at these big problems, and his possible solutions as a motivation and a platform, and he thinks He can fix it.

Whether he can or not, isn’t relevant at the moment. Because, what we are discussing here is...

When you slice up Trump what is inside. His motives? His why?

He didn’t just decide to run to prove himself. He actually doesn’t need to prove himself, especially not to you or me.

He didn’t decide I feel like spending millions in running for president, because that would be a prestigeous thing to do.

He is business wealthy, not politician wealthy.

Politicians have career goas leading to a presidential dreams.

Trump probably didn’t have becoming president on his career goal list, and probably not even on his jump out of a plane, ride the biggest roller coaster, buy an island …. And everything else, Bucket List!

Trumps Business Background:

Many successful people had bankruptcies and use legal loopholes to build businesses. And Atlantic City has been put out of business just about, Atlantic City is a big mess in the Tristate Area. Because States who didn’t allow gambling, now do. So there are more local options for gambling and less people doing to Atlantic City. So Atlantic City tanked, Atlantic municipality actually just shut down and closed their government doors (for months or maybe more) because literally, their broke!

So regardless, Trump had great success, and is a business man. And, managing a big budget, of many businesses all at 1 time, and lowering expenses and deficiencies is something that is actually in his wheelhouse!

These are areas he sees as things that someone needs to step up and fix around here in the USA.

Now, He is approaching issues from a citizens perspective and business perspective and he is thinking, "I can fix this. Someone has to get this stuff under a manageable control," ....Or America may face bankruptcy, bad credit, government shut downs, refusal of future credit, or have no ability to borrow, maybe foreclosure (of a country?), or the inability to pay salaries, or provide benefits or funding or care or social security checks or welfare checks or unemployment checks, or health care premiums for Obamacare… etc.

He sees policies that are hurting Americans, and his approach is from a common sense citizen and a business perspective:

1- Trading and American Businesses – Trading goods with China and others, and American companies who brought their business to other countries, (Trump has bought, sold, and run companies abroad also) So as a business person he answers the problem by strategies to strengthen opportunities, jobs, and make and sell more products locally, to strengthen our economy, reduce inflation, and make life more affordable for everybody. Make sense?

This is a reasonable approach. And, this approach isn't selective help according to race, gender, sex orientation etc… because it will help everyone across the board, and raise many black and white people out of poverty, and there will be more money in our economy, in our local communities, and in households, and probably significantly will raise tax revenue From Everyone, and For Everyone’s benefit.

Bringing businesses home raise tax revenue from big business, which is big money, to add to our American pocketbook.

2- Immigration - He doesn't hate Mexicans, and he doesn't hate Muslims.

He hates “the problems” we have, that happen to include some people from these 2 groups.

Again, he is using a Common Sense Citizen/Businessman approach to problems and solutions.

So 1st, lets all get in the driver seat, and lets all make the most logical determination for policies, in response to “all the problems.”

In our homes we can't Pay the Electric Bill, and Ignore the Water Bill. But, if push comes to shove, we may do without a dinner out, or maybe, even do without Cable TV for a few months. These are logical household management decisions that we all may have had to make at sometime. Apply the same principles to our problems in the USA.

In the same way, we have to divide our resources, and address everything and every problem in balance, according to priority and our future stability and safety.

So when discussing the issue of Immigration -

1st we have to define the problems

and

2nd we have to answer the problem.

And we have to answer the problem with 1st making sure “our own house” has a reasonable ability to survive and thrive. And if we spread ourselves thin, that it’s not too thin, and it won't add more damages to our already struggling family!

- So, Then regarding 1 problem with many sub- problems

Immigration:

Illegal Aliens, The Potential for Terrorism, The Vetting Process, The Current Job Market in the USA, Our Own Crime and then the Added Crime of SOME Illegal Aliens, Our Own Struggles Within Our Own Communities and Our Own Country - Racial Tensions, Poverty, Education, Home Land Security, Law Enforcement, Health Insurance, Medicare, Our Seniors, UnEmployment, UnderEmploymwnt, InterNational Relationships, Any and All Issues, Threats, and Tensions, Our Military Defense, Intelligence, and Military Responsibilities and Action, Green Card Holders, and More... Etc...

(Reduce it all to small terms and apply a common sense example)

- We have a good little family, we are compassionate and help others. But we have a limit on ability. We have limits on the good we can do, and regardless of what we would like to do, the good we can do is limited by our ability and resources.

We are limited by our own income, our bills, our discretionary income, our by our own progress and goals as a family unit, and of each individual person within our own family. We also have many other obligations - our aging parents, other people that are directly in our path that have needs, planning our own years of retirement, and personal and our children’s education, and providing for the now and later needs and wants and goals for ourselves, our children, and our grandchildren, and then also more, other community involvements we are a part of like churches or other groups and charities that are important to us ... Then whatever is left over after we have met or managed the immediate demands around us, what is leftover if any, is ALL that we have to work with.

We all have to understand, we just can't give everyone a better life, because 1 - it is NOT realistic 2 - it will hurt our immediate and extended family. It would take from their basic needs, and also would put their future stability at risk 3 - it would prevent stability and goals both collectively and personally. Hurting our economic improvements, current growth, and future gains.

Well, the government spending and budget- Federal, State, and Local are similar in comparison, but just on a way bigger and broader scale!

So, when Trump says, "Close the Boarder" and "build a wall,"

He isn't being callus or a bigot.

He is taking each of these real issues, I mentioned, effecting Immigration and he is applying a common sense approach for answers according to the whole picture of Immigration combined with the whole picture of ALL the other issues in light of our Household Budget, our Projected Future Earnings, and Our Already Accrued Rising National Debt, along with the Interest on the Money We Already Owe - (Which is BILLIONS and GROWING by adding on top growing unpaid Interest and also more Added New Debt from All the Short Falls from yearly Spending we don’t cover now by tax revenue. So this is Our Household Budget, and our spending and our bills are not even close to being covered. The debt grows and grows with what we don’t cover in taxes after our bills are paid. And that is HUGE!!

So take issues surrounding immigration, and answer it. Understand the why, ask more questions, see what we are willing to do without, an what we can’t di without.

And if you cut from priority areas, like military or retirement social security or medicare or education.

Make sure you ask more questions and more question and weigh every possible problem or consequence. BEFORE you make your opinion and chase idiot know it alls, that actually are likely the least educated among us. Maybe even enemies of America for all you know!

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

Of course we're losing rights. This is undeniable. Some of them are being taken at a state level, and others federally. Just in my lifetime we have these examples:

- I am not free to choose whether or not I want health insurance any longer.

- I am not free to choose whether or not I want to wear a seat belt in my car

- I am not free to choose how much I would like to pay an employee.

- I am not free to choose how much I will work for

- I am not free to hire whoever I wish, for whatever reason I wish

- I am not free to allow others to smoke in my establishment

etc etc.

Then, depending on where you live, there are even more ridiculous nanny state laws that remove rights:

- You are not free to dispose of your trash how you see fit.

- You are not free to have a muddy vehicle (MN)

- You cannot sell girl scout cookies in your own home (MO)

- McDonald's cannot hand out happy meal toys (San Fran)

- Children cannot sell lemonade at a lemonade stand (various)

- You are not free to choose whether or not to have your child vaccinated (various)

- You are not free to have trash in your car (NC)

- You are not free to pass out water without a permit (various)

- You are not free to send your child to school with a lunch of your choice. It must meed USDA guidelines

- You are not free to feed the homeless (various)

There are so many more ridiculous local, state and federal laws like this, I could go on indefinitely.

We haven't even touched on economic freedoms. People don't realize that there was NO income tax for about 140 years in the US. More than half our history. As as a result, you are no longer free to keep the product of your labor. The government claims its cut before it even gets to you in most cases and it will do whatever the hell it wants with it. You can vote for spending and tax cuts over and over again, but with things like baseline budgeting in place, it's a pipe dream.

Nanny state liberalism is absolutely removing our rights and liberties. When I was growing up, you would often hear the phrase 'it's a free country'. You don't hear that so much anymore do you? That's because it isn't, and things like Obamacare are only going to speed this trend up exponentially. Suddenly, that guy eating a bacon cheeseburger effects all of us.

It's a shame so many people have bought into the false claim that government is 'protecting rights'. The government is not capable of granting liberties. They can only remove someone else's rights, if yours are violated. That's a big difference, and that misunderstanding is a big factor in why this is happening. Many people think they're being righteous, when in fact they're being naive and short sighted.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

It started slowly and has grown. Small things that were passed with little objection because the argument was so persuasive and the dissent had little support.

Seatbelt laws were passed. Driving with a seatbelt on was safer and we were told it would lower insurance rates. How do you argue? It shouldn't be a law because it infringes on our right to be stupid? But it does infringe on our right to choose, and insurance just got higher.

One by one laws were passed to protect us from ourselves, each cutting a little more info our liberty. The regulatory agencies created rules for what we could do on our property, even if it didn't affect anyone else.

Then came the "liberal" view that anything they thought was bad should be illegal, anything you say must conform. Freedom of speech is only for those whose speech is"correct". If it offends atheists, you can't say it. Offends a minority, you should go to jail. Offend a woman, you're evil. About the only one you can freely offend is a WASP male.

Every aspect of our lives is regulated or restricted. The only ones who could believe we have not lost rights are those too young too remember having them.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

Then came the "liberal" view that anything they thought was bad should be illegal, anything you say must conform.

Except Liberals are the ones championing the cause of drug legalization, and despite assurances to the contrary, free speech hasn't been outlawed.

Freedom of speech is only for those whose speech is"correct".

Nobody is actually silencing "incorrect" speech. They are simply criticizing it, which is itself free speech.

If it offends atheists, you can't say it.

Nobody is stopping you.

Offends a minority, you should go to jail.

Nobody is putting you in jail for that.

Offend a woman, you're evil.

Even if someone did actually say that, they would be exercising their own free speech. Isn't that what you are trying to defend?

About the only one you can freely offend is a WASP male.

You can offend anyone you want with impunity. I say that as a WAS(silent P?) male. We are not the victims, we hold the majority of the wealth, and we hold the majority of the power.

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
1 point

Dude........

Did you just awaken from a long slumber?

Our Civil Rights have been slowly but exorably been getting taken from us for over a decade now.

Beginning with the passage by Congress of The Patriot Act right after 911.

And also with the forming of Homeland Security.

Which would be more aptly named if it was called Homeland Scrutiny.

Ssshhhhhh!

Be careful!

They may be lurking as we speak!

LOL

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

While I definitely agree that our post 9/11 shift strongly emphasized an erosion of individual rights, I'd argue that, at least technically, our rights have been taken away more and more since the founding of the country.

At least if you mean "rights" within a sort of state of nature philosophical context. If you mean it within a legal context, we have more rights than ever.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

It is really crazy that people would think that we are overreacting because we are getting our rights taken away. Political correctness is stupid. You need to say what you think and not what the majority want you to say. I like people to be unique and be able to say what they want to say. Secondly, they are taking our rights away to worship our God!

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

It is really crazy that people would think that we are overreacting because we are getting our rights taken away. Political correctness is stupid. You need to say what you think and not what the majority want you to say. I like people to be unique and be able to say what they want to say. Secondly, they are taking our rights away to worship our God!

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
Aejy(6) Clarified
1 point

Not the right to worship, but the right to show that you do or that anyone does.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples

I sold my rights to pay off a car loan.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
0 points

yes they are if donald trump becomes president all of ill rights will be gone out the door

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
Aejy(6) Clarified
1 point

Could you clarify? Which rights and how? I don't support any of the candidates but am interested in the facts behind other people's opinions. Facts rather than blanket statements of opinion.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
-1 points

The hypocrisy from the Left knows no bounds. They are supposedly so concerned about what they deem a person's right to marry someone of the same sex, they forced through apointments of activist Liberal judges a new law forcing every state to allow gay marrige no matter if the people in that state dissagree.

But when it comes to a Christian family owned business refusing to cater events that go against their faith, the left wants to strip their freedoms to say no.

How would you like to be an African American family business and then being forced to cater a KKK convention?

It's truly sick how extremists have taken over the Democrat party.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

Hey moron, the guy lives in Virginia.

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
Aejy(6) Disputed
1 point

Calling someone a moron is not a valid form of debate and suggests a lack of intelligent argument

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
SlapShot(2608) Clarified
1 point

I am curious.....

After all this time.........

Do you still think I am a Lefty?

Just want to know.

Thanks.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
FromWithin(8241) Clarified
1 point

No, I do not think you are a Lefty. You are a total hateful bigot who constantly spews hate towards Christians. I can not debate someone so vile as to put feces on Christian literature in a Church.

Do you remember that mass murderer who went into a church down south and spent enough time there to be amazed how nice they were to him? He still went on to kill many of them(that he did not know any of them) and then I believed he felt badly for killing them after they were so loving towards him.

I think you desparately need to come to grips with whatever past history you have had with the Church or Christians. Get over your anger and use your supposed narcissistic intelligence to KNOW NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE LIKE THE ONE'S YOU HAVE DEALT WITH! God said you will know a Christian by their love so when you see or hear of hateful idiots doing things in the name of Christianity, THEY ARE FALSE CHRISTIANS and do not paint the entire church by their actions.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

Dependings where you are talking about but it is gsir to say that we are all both lossing and gain rights all the time.

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
KNHav(1957) Clarified
1 point

We are specifically discussing rights in America...........

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
Atrag(5666) Clarified
1 point

I see. Well you have no absolute rights other countries enjoy. Right to life? Nope. Right to freedom from torture? Nope. As for any limited rights... privacy? The NSA has been recording everything for you do and say for years and has no plan to stop. Freedom of expression? you speak against the USA you end up in a camp. Or maybe even some looser rights like proportionate punishment: oh nope you have the largest prisoner population in the world. Its not even a debate.

T

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
1 point

A famous Republican, one we lovingly called "Ike" once said: "A people who values it's privileges above its principles soon loses both." Don't confuse "taking away your rights" with protecting the rights of others! I have seen NO evidence that anyone is taking away MY rights, saying I can't do something because it tramples the rights of others doesn't bother me in the slightest!

Side: No, People Are Overreacting
KNHav(1957) Disputed
2 points

MY rights, saying I can't do something because it tramples the rights of others doesn't bother me in the slightest!

Today we have selective groups, that get away with trampling the rights of others.

Selective, It seems to be ok as long as the rights being trampled are Christian, white, or conservative.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

It happens EVERY Day.

It is in many litigations

It is in many crimes.

Side: Yes, There Are Many Examples