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Debate Info

152
138
Yes No
Debate Score:290
Arguments:402
Total Votes:310
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 Yes (143)
 
 No (108)

Debate Creator

Deli_Subs(108) pic



Are There Any Good Arguments For Gods Existence?

Are there? If so please give some examples.

Yes

Side Score: 152
VS.

No

Side Score: 138
2 points

Yes there's a lot

The cosmogical argument

Alsdeqeen argument

The ontological argument

Side: Yes
Darkyear(345) Disputed
2 points

Cosmological-

http://www.skeptical-science.com/atheism/debunking-argument/

ontological-

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ontological_argument

I have no idea what the Alsdeqeen argument is. Neither does google, at least in English. Care to explain?

Side: No
Irisveil(21) Clarified
1 point

Sure look up for " برهان الصديقين " it's in Arabic

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Clarified
1 point

Islam upholds something it calls God in place of the Living God who is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The God of Islam is something bitter and demanding, something that was miserably alone in eternity past, something that is cruel and demands it's followers kill or enslave all who will not bow to the God of Islam who is not God of the Bible.

Side: Yes

Beast of the Earth argument...

If you get on facebook and look up "Beast of the Earth", that page will open your eyes beyond belief.

Side: Yes
2 points

I personally believe in a God. I don't have a solid case for his existence, but it reminded me of Rene Descartes' Meditations, where he tackles the question. Although it is just his thought process and not proof, I think people might want to check it out if you haven't. It's just an interesting take. Read 'Meditation III: Concerning God, That He Exists'

Take from it what you will.

Supporting Evidence: Descartes' Take On God (en.wikipedia.org)
Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

It's better to read God's word. Descarte was trained by Jesuit Priests, the hitman thugs of Catholicism.

Side: No

Have you seen Fromwithins post about god ? Pure gold. He is a true man.

Side: Yes
1 point

I will start out with just one to allow other opinions to flow in.

The Moral Argument "Can man be good without god"

To get this average response I do not mean can you be good without believing in god (the answer is an obvious yes) I mean be good without him at all. So 0 commandments, 0 laws, 0 foundations for governments, etc. Without God there is no Objective Morality just differing opinions. This debate I will not intervene at all nor will I leave a link to strengthen my argument. Good Luck to both sides!

Side: Yes
AveSatanas(4425) Disputed
5 points

You have to actually prove morality is objective before we start assuming where that morality came from. And so far there is no compelling evidence supporting objective morality precisely because everyones opinions differ and have differed between time periods and cultures since the beginning of time.

Side: No
luckin(176) Clarified
3 points

That sounds more like a change in relative understanding rather than objective morality

Side: Yes
trumpet_guy(502) Disputed
2 points

Just because opinions are different does not mean there is not a definite answer. Just because a question is question is complicated and people disagree does not mean there is not one single answer

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Disputed
2 points

Jesus said it will be "just like the days of Noah!

We have entered the Ark, trying to heard you beasts in with us!

We will be hidden from the horror that will take place when the middle east let's loose it's final acts. You can be hidden in Jesus, or not! But the destruction is coming regardless.

Now He painstakingly filed them into the Ark Male and Female.

Not three-somes or bi-sexuals, or same-sex couples, only male and female entered!

Why did God start this story discussing the unnatural marrying of fallen angels with daughters of men?

"Unnatural" and then also equate the final destruction calling attention to "marrying and given in marriage" unnatural against His design, 1 male with his 1 female!?

Do you think same sex marriage was a blessing? Think again!

It will be just like the days of Noah, then He adds Sodom and Gomorrah just to cover His basis in CLARITY!

All the others, we'll they were marrying and given in marriage to whomever they pleased!

Weird Jesus would mention this dynamic, when God was displeased by their marital choices and their seed of offspring.

Yet Jesus mentions that too!

"Like birth pangs" "like a woman in labor" " woe to them that nurse babes and give sucks in those days" woe to us who raised and nursed these babes of Millennials, woe!

Jesus unites these two stories!

And without the Holy Spirit you can't understand a thing!

So good luck, or get into the Ark!

Romans

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; *(for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,

30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;

32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Luke 17

32 Remember Lot’s wife.

33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. (Unnatural and immorality, and fornication)

35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. (False doctrines and false teachers)

36 [Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.”] (working serving masters, one serving themselves and god of this world, one serving Jesus)

37 And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.” devoured by beasts in a dog eat dog world! Demons devouring them as they devour each other!

Guess what happens 1st? Taken by their own lusts comes 1st!

Dead bodies of sin devoured by vultures, birds of the air, Principalities of the air!

Side: Yes
1 point

It's pretty simple really.

1)Is it moral to rape a woman?

2)Is it moral to molest a child?

3)Is it moral to walk into your neighbor's house, steal his things and kill him?

4)Is it moral to look at a goat ready to pounce upon it in a ghastly attempt to fornicate with said goat in an effort to bring forth little half human half goatlings?

I think not. Thus? You are wrong. Any questions?

Side: Yes
alpaca(7) Disputed
3 points

First off you'd have to prove morality's objective. Next off morality is greatly a construct of remorse, which is proven to be wired into your brain at birth because there is a part of the brain that controls it. Morality can be learned from surroundings, and humans choose the "don't kill other humans" morality because it works the best.

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Not just wired into the brain, it's the brain that put conscience to reasoning. Conscience is conscience the brain justifies or condemns conscience and that the part that is wired into the brain.

Like ISIS knows murder is wrong but their brain goes against the conscience that will eventually condemn them, saying every reason it's right to do the opposite.

Then conscience becomes dull, and darkened, and slippery slope, they are not even aware how evil their actions are. But in front of God their excuses of the mind won't exist, just the judgement of their deeds weighed against the conscience, which the law of God is written!!! On 2 stone tablets soul and heart !!!!!!!

Romans 2

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; . 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Their own conscience will testify as a witness against them!!!!

Side: Yes
Skepticseeke(10) Disputed
1 point

There were moral laws long before any of the bible was penned, and I find it impossible to believe that you think people would not have figured out you shouldn't kill people without some commandment from a god. Furthermore doing something because you are threaned with violence if you don't does not make you moral.

Side: No

Yes. When I was a kid I remember being told"one day the land that is now Syria will be bombed into oblivion, the Russians will be allied with Iran, an epic battle will begin to rotate around Northern Israel, the U.S. will be a mere shadow of its former self, Christians will be genocided in the Middle East, and Christians will be beheaded. My oh my. I never thought we'd actually be right here in this exact position in my lifetime, but...here we are.

Side: Yes

Yes there are arguments on a list that's a mile long. Do you have any evidence for the magic "not God" that manifested reality from its magical "not Godness"? No? I didn't think so.

Side: Yes
0 points

The question of morality is defined by God, if God exists.

The answer is morality is subjective if God does not exist.

And for the most part, we can't "prove" He exist, or doesn't exist!

But there is more indicating He does exist, then indicating He doesn't.

We can't see gravity, to prove gravity. But the indications themselves are "the proof" that gravity exists. No matter what experiment you use showing gravity, only the outcome of gravity is seen, and measured, and is the basic foundation of earth, everything on earth, and I think even the rotations of the earth in space with Sun and moon. I'm not that science educated, but we all kind of know the basics. So even though we can't see gravity, it's existence is indisputable. Well if you look at God with the same examination and investigation, then you will also find God is actually as indisputable as gravity.

But if you refuse to investigate as you would gravity then you can't conclude the truth that's actually as in your face factually as gravity!

Now I won't actually go into everything in detail, because it's a vast deep question with even greater vast deep answers.

If you actually have a heart that wants to know, you will investigate it, if not then someday you will meet Him anyway. It's inevitable if He truely exists. If He exists, you not knowing it is your judgement. Because you not knowing it means, you are His enemy not His child.

The children know the Father, the others will meet the God that we call Father!

Here is just a glimpse... a thought to start your own investigation ... but I will caution you, if your heart is evil and closed, your eyes and understanding will also be darkened and closed!

Ezekiel, Daniel, and a few other prophets focus on end times prophesies along with Revelations, and some of what Jesus said direct.

The Bible an instruction manual, explains every detail for understanding, and then also a Time keeper for us to show us where we are and what's next. It's written to His people and as time progresses, "at the appointed time" God opens the playback within the pages of the "football" to reveals things, times, events, rebellions, everything from the Catholic midevil dark ages to religious freedom, to extreme depravity all recorded in the "football," in order to keep His people on track, and give warnings, and instructions and commands for preparations for His people to stay on the side of the light as everything goes down!

And while He shows His people, He blinds everyone else.

Blinding them so they "stumble at noonday" "the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, stars fall, earthy quakes"

If you read through the prophets Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel all of them, this "violent Bible" as people accuse, is actually a revealing of everything from beginning to end. Which currently we are about 6000 years since the story of Creation. 6 days!

The Word of God is like moving "a football" through time. Like a football the presidents pass with all the informations and codes needed to defence and procedure.

So I posted Ezekiel 38, here because it's pertinent to what we see happening today. This is an end time prophesy.

And Islamic extremism is a key player, as they hate Israel and the US whether we admit or not is considered a Christian Nation, as well as which Christianity is part of Judaism, when passing the football. Also Muslims are part of the football.

Here is a prophesy given about Ishmael, now this is part of the football. There are lots of parts. But it's significant. Gog is the use of the many nations and the Spirit of Ishmael. His blood is in many Nations, and we see this enmity and strife set as a part of the football. And Russia is significant, Turkey, and the "horn" of Africa.

We see beasts with horns in the Bible apocalyptic prophesies.

And note its very interesting, the prophesy discusses in

verse 10 -‘Thus says the Lord God, “It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan, 11 and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates

Its interesting with all the political discussions of open borders and the funny "wall" discussions of our day

Israel and the USA and other Allie Nations, the United Nations, and all political, geographical, and Islamic extremism is all part of the "football"

Here is a prophesy regarding Ishmael -

Genesis 16

8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” 9 Then the angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.” 10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be too many to count.” 11 The angel of the Lord said to her further,

“Behold, you are with child,

And you will bear a son;

And you shall call his name Ishmael,

Because the Lord has given heed to your affliction.

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,

His hand will be against everyone,

And everyone’s hand will be against him;

And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”

And Gog did mix with decendents of Ishmael.

So my point in posting is how far Liberals have taken the USA from the founding Fathers intent, and the self declarations of the Liberal populous, "We are not a Christian Nation" with a fist up!

So as we are being torn up from within and without, by "bowls of wrath being poured out," from Revelations, and actually some are being poured out, already! As we stand, and we don't even know it!

But as the US puts their fist up against God, so in essence, we declared war against God. And its a sad day, but a joyous day.

In 1 sense sad because the hate and violence is dancing in the open like never before, its shocking to the reasonable mind! Yet almost acceptable and natural to the mind that is like the wild animal, "or beast" the "mind of a beast" and the becoming minds like beasts is also recorded to happen in the football. But in another sense joyous because we are coming to the end of the whole game. And that means Jesus is coming soon and for His people, we'll we look forward to it.

It's a double edge sword, separating darkness to more darkness and light to more light.

So Benghazi is an example of the mind of the beast in leadership, with Gog tearing us as another beast. And every bit of it is judgement. And the blood spilled of these men, is on the heads of both of these beasts.

Side: Yes
sylynn(626) Disputed
2 points

This is circular reasoning. If I believe there to be no god, any book that is claimed to have been written by this god cannot be used to argue his existence.

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

At minimum integrity an no bias in educational studies like ancient history and archiology

This is one of the many examples.

Atheists don't just leave out truth and history regarding the biblical text, they change history, close the door to knowledge, and even destroy artifacts.

So in education they teach wrong information, in order to discredit the Bible, and mislead people in order to illuminate biblical faith.

.

Free thinkers are really dictators of thought. Atheists and skeptics close the door on finds that prove the Bible. The literally direct it, control it, and it comes down to ruling, one world government, dictatorship.

There has been an agenda throughout history to discredit the Bible even in historic value.

So in the 1930s, they had determined Exodus to be in Rameses as Pharoah. Without finding anything they declared, the bible and God to be dead. Then with atheism force of their agenda, based in Satanism really. Satan rules and the goal is to eliminate God and His people and that's what we see today, no matter how unreasonable, it's a closed door.

But the door was closed for all of you "free thinkers" by the dictating "free thinkers"

1st of all I'll say many Biblical scholars were asleep at the wheel. So they are to blame for apathy.

Genesis is very detailed on geneology, just math tells you the approx time period of Exodus.

There was a place called Rameses generations before Exodus, because the word Rameses as in the place, the jumped to a conclusion, and instead of using simple math, the intellectuals did it their way, conveniently.

So your a historian you have simple math in ancient texts, do you study it? Or assume based on word association?

Apparently simple is to easy for the atheist and skeptic, so let's just go with word association!

"Patterns of Evidence-Exodus" is a well done documentary proving all stories from Joseph to Moses to the walls of Jericho!

Right were it's supposed to be be by my own study of simple math in geneology purposely detailed by God in Genesis.

Also location is tricky for a few reason, changes in names modern map compared to ancient map. And also commercialization, if a location says this is a Biblical place, the location can make money in tourism, some areas welcome that and exploit it. Whereas other government do not at all want to confirm biblical artifacts and places.

One factor is Muslim countries do not want to cooperate with confirming biblical History, for obvious reasons.

And all these are obstacles the dictators of free thought don't tell the little free thinkers, because the dictating free thinkers want to discredit the Bible and remove God and Christianity.

Only Jews and Christians, although there are some that want to eliminate violence of Muslims, the religion doesn't bother them.

None of the others bother them, why? Because Satan is behind it, and he is still trying to ascend above God.

The question I have, same with liberal media, I get conservatives do it also, but not nearly to the degree of liberals.

In liberal politics, the free thinkers dictatorship organizations are working conspiracies, and universities also have been infiltrated, Republican also have been infiltrated. But the left is much more of a useful tool. They are tools! And media and universities all tools. Using each other by taught skills of exploitation, manipulation, using everything, even causing harm, to "fix it"

Because the goal is one world rule, basically one world communism. The question is, do you think they wear that on their sleeves, and on display?

So you have this big giant that controls what you get to choose.

So they only allow what they want you to think, and gift wrap it for you all, and call it free thinking! But wouldn't free thinking be to give you all the information and let you all think freely, and conclude freely?

So they found everything in a time line the Bible itself said it would be in, yet they dig 200 years outside of it and tell the world, "see nothing" and when people of integrity in the field show everything, even in sequence of order, they keep the door shut, thereby keeping the door to the little free thinkers minds closed also!

I'd be passed if someone controlled me, I hate it.

Give me info I'll decide for myself!

http://patternsofevidence.com/blog/2016/ 04/07/the-david-rohl-lectures-part-3/

https://youtu.be/8XJf6Nggl0

https://youtu.be/rESYeIRKYMk

https://youtu.be/RSLLl3QOkrY

https://youtu.be/c5N2NFu64w

Side: Yes
1 point

Sure it can. Go to "The Beast of Revelation" on facebook. You'll get more than an eye full.

Side: Yes
6 points

Which gods?

LOL

There are thousands. The one you are probably referring too, Yah-Yah, the murderous psychopathic bully tyrant sky god of Bronze Age Hebrew mythos, is but one in the vast pantheon of gods. That all have been invented by our evolved homo sapien minds in an attempt to forestall our pending and certain deaths.

And, umm...no. There is not a scintilla of proof for ANY of these gods.

Not even a scintilla of EVIDENCE!

But yet, thousands or reasons I could list why this world in all appearances now and in the past seems to be certainly random and not controlled by any sort of supernatural entity.

Let me know if you would like a list of some reasons why there almost certainly is not god.

hope this helps you out a little, new meat.

SS

Side: No
Deli_Subs(108) Disputed
1 point

For start (even though I realize you are a troll) it states "Are there any good arguments for Gods existence" it is not being specific. Second you presuppose evolution is fact and religion is mere myth. "Not even a scientilla of evidence" I have to ask a question Do you even examine both sides of the arguments or are you just an atheistic troll who goes on websites dedicated to religious satire whose owners are either ignorant of the religion itself or take the verse/verses out of context? If troll then you are that closed-minded. I'm religious not because I am a delusional closed-minded jesus freak. I have examined both sides of the arguments and came out a theist. I researched which religion is true and I came out a Christian and am one because of evidence. Research it yourself unbaisedly and you will probably become a Christian

Side: Yes

I'm going with atheist troll. Now how do I know that?

1)I see a bridge with goats trying to cross it.

2)Now Bilbo Baggins is teaching how to cook dwarves.

3)I smell the smell of giant hairy feet, plumbers crack, and the viperized- forked tongue with pointy tail, a set of horns, and signature red tights.

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Funny you mention "The one you are probably referring too, Yah-Yah, the murderous psychopathic bully tyrant sky god of Bronze Age Hebrew mythos, is but one in the vast pantheon of gods. That all have been invented by our evolved homo sapien minds in an attempt to forestall our pending and certain deaths."

God has a response for you, if your ears heat, if you have a heart that can understand!

Deut 28

22 The Lord will smite you with consumption and with fever and with inflammation and with fiery heat and with the sword and with blight and with mildew, and they will pursue you until you perish. 23 The heaven which is over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you, iron.

If the Heavens are Bronze to you, you can't see even at noon in the middle of the day!

You may want to rethink your position, your no match for God, and its terrifying to fall into the hands of The Mighty God!

Hebrews 10

28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

.

Side: Yes
1 point

God can be terrible, therefore worship Him....

um, no thanks.

Side: No
SlapShot(2608) Disputed
1 point

Thanks for helping make not one but TWO major points I have been extolling here for months now.

ONE...with your silly bible quotes, you affirm what a bullying, malevolent, murderous douche bag Yah-Yah is.

TWO: you show how your type has no evidence or proof what so fucking ever of your gods, outside of your little book of lies you call your bible.

Actually there is a third point I always make that you helped support here: how mundane and boring it is to us when you guys paste your bible quotes here. Here's a hint for you: if we wanted to do some fantasy lit reading, we would probably pick up something far superior and interesting like one of the GOT books, or even Greek Mythology (the latter of which I hold equal to Hebrew Mythos, but have always found more interesting.)

Ergo...we don't need you to paste that shit for us. thanks just the same. I am sure you mean well, of maybe just don't know any better, but still.

SS

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Funny you mention "The one you are probably referring too, Yah-Yah, the murderous psychopathic bully tyrant sky god of Bronze Age Hebrew mythos, is but one in the vast pantheon of gods. That all have been invented by our evolved homo sapien minds in an attempt to forestall our pending and certain deaths."

God has a response for you, if your ears heat, if you have a heart that can understand!

Deut 28

22 The Lord will smite you with consumption and with fever and with inflammation and with fiery heat and with the sword and with blight and with mildew, and they will pursue you until you perish. 23 The heaven which is over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you, iron.

If the Heavens are Bronze to you, you can't see even at noon in the middle of the day!

You may want to rethink your position, your no match for God, and its terrifying to fall into the hands of The Mighty God!

Hebrews 10

28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

.

Side: Yes
1 point

Cancel out Hinduism, which is fast declining giving way to Islam. Now name the still existing gods for us. The god of Abraham. You name the rest.

Side: Yes
1 point

Pretty much all arguments for the existence of God get slammed with so much ease it just makes it an easy decision for me not to believe. The ontological argument for example id just pathetic and a sort of play with linguistics. Gaunillo's response with his island put that to bed and showed why the argument is mostly inductive when it is thought to be mostly deductive. so many religions. who is right? so many religious experiences contradict each other. Who is right? However, it is nice that believers try to make arguments as things like debates can happen but i would emphasize that that's all they are good for. 'That all have been invented by our evolved homo sapien minds in an attempt to forestall our pending and certain deaths.' excellent summary.

Side: No
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

so you prefer to hope in death to get you out of reality, thinking you will not have to give account of your sins to God.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

There is no valid argument against God .

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

Here's a fool for you. You ask the how God influenced their life and they answer "Which god" and burst out laughing. How in the world a fool thinks that by saying gods are not God you know there is no God is indeed a joke.

Of course gods are not God, how stupid can you be to insist things which are not God are not God?

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Clarified
1 point

This is so stupid......gods are not God, God is the only One you do not want ruling over you, He is the one you have sinned against, He is the One you must face on Judgement Day. It's just plain ignorant to talk about things that are not God and claim that things which are not God proves God is not God.

Things you call gods are not God. Duhhhh.

Side: Yes
1 point

Hinduism is quickly disappearing, being replaced by Islam. That leaves only the "God of Abraham", just as the Bible prophesied.

Side: Yes
4 points

No. Every single argument for god contains some kind of fallacy at its core.

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Can you give those fallacies to me to discuss with you, I'll take a Crack at it, and see if the fallacies are legitimate.

Side: Yes
AveSatanas(4425) Disputed
4 points

Ok well the kalam cosmological argument makes the god of the gaps fallacy (as do most apologetics arguments). And the ontological argument has a flawed premise in it.

Lets start with just these two.

The Kalam cosmological argument says that,

1. Whatever began to exist has a cause

2. The universe began to exist

3. Therefore the universe had a cause

And then it concludes by saying that god is the best explanation for that cause and furthermore that its the god of the bible.

But it never proves this last point. Even if i grant all 3 premises all you have is that the universe had a cause. Anything added to the argument after that is just wholly made up and not based on any logical argumentation.

The argument as a whole is basically just a god of the gaps argument. It chooses the biggest gap in scientific understanding (the origin of the universe) and just shoves god in there. "you dont know how it happened, therefore god did it" is the summation of the argument.

The ontological argument is a bit more complex.

1.it is possible that god exists

2.If it is possible that god exists then god exists in some possible worlds

3. If god exists in some possible worlds then god exists in all possible worlds

4. Therefore god exists in this world

Premise 3 is just a big fat glaring fallacy. If something exists maybe then it exists definitely? Thats just absurd. The premises are logically backwards. It should be if god exists in ALL possible worlds then he exists in SOME possible worlds. The other one doesnt follow logically from anything.

Usually this argument gets spiced up with terminology like "a maximally great being" instead of the word god. Because part of the qualities of a maximally great being (as defined by apologists) is that a maximally great being necessarily exists. Well thats just absurd because all that does is just define god into being. It ignores the entire point of the argument. If youre going to just attach "definitely exists" to the definition of god then why bother with the premises at all? All you did was define god as something that exists and then whipe your hands like the argument is over. If i define unicorn as "a magical winged horse with a horn THAT EXISTS IN REALITY". Does it then poof into existence just because i defined it as so? Of course not.

This is why physical, observable, testable proof is so important and why atheists hype on it so much. Because words are just words. Words cant make things exist. You cant argue god into existence with words alone. Hence why the bible is not proof. Its just words.

Side: No
luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

would you be willing to give an example of what you mean?

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

I have not found one fallacy.

Your understanding fails. It's a closed book, because you have not sought Him. Seek and you shall find, the opposite is true if you don't seek you won't find Him.

Then He explains how to seek! He say seek as one who sells everything to buy a field for the pearl of great price.

So it's an investment proposition, and it goes like this;

You have a net worth, the field is for sale but it costs your entire network worth, but there is a guarenteed appraised pearl in the field, and its worth seven times seven times your net worth.

Do you buy the field and excavate it?

Do you buy the field and not excavate it?

Or do you keep your net worth, and pass up the opportunity that is hidden in the field?

Reading the Bible is not seeking, Jesus said to seek like hunting for treasure. Seek that way and you will find.

If not, you have not!

.

Side: Yes
AveSatanas(4425) Disputed
2 points

Ive read the bible cover to cover. 2 of every animal cannot repopulate their entire species. Then again, the world never flooded. Geologists have disproven that fully.

Fallacy.

Your move

Side: No
1 point

As likened unto the fallacy that the "nothing" from the Never Ending Story done it?

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

You contain corruption at your core and it's pulling you down to Hell where it belongs.

Side: Yes
2 points

No evidence of any god exists. And it is highly illogical to believe water, beauty , life and such makes a good argument because as you might know science has many theories with supporting evidence of how such things happen. Something can come from nothing as quantum physics proves.

Side: No
1 point

Then explain it to us how something comes from nothing, nothing by definition meaning "lacking properties of any kind. We'll wait.

Side: Yes
MundiVeritas(10) Disputed
1 point

The problem you're encountering is the same one Kent Hovind and Ray Comfort can't escape. Physicists and Cosmologists have a different definition of "nothing" than the common usage. Much like the term "Theory" in Science, the colloquial usage is inappropropriate when discussing Cosmology. Nothing is defined as "lacking properties of any kind."

Further, seemingly ignored by every Theist, is quantum physics, where matter does indeed come from your definition of nothing every second of every day. Something comes from nothing all the time. To ignore this presents a pretty clear confirmation bias.

Side: No
1 point

What the claw has proposed is what in the days of Middle Earth, beyond a hole in the ground, in a time of elves and men, was referred to as good... old... fashioned...

Magic.

Side: Yes
1 point

That includes the atheist god referred to in some circles as "Nothingness with magic powersness", and in other circles as "the magic nothing monster".

Side: Yes
2 points

By quoting The bible or other religious books you don't quite make an argument because we believe it is just a book written by men a very very long time ago to pass their standards , ideas and generally things practical for them. No we are not certain of the origin of the bible but if you want to argue about god using the bible as a basis first explain to me why your religious text book is the true one.

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

At minimum integrity an no bias in educational studies like ancient history and archiology

This is one of the many examples.

Atheists don't just leave out truth and history regarding the biblical text, they change history, close the door to knowledge, and even destroy artifacts.

So in education they teach wrong information, in order to discredit the Bible, and mislead people in order to illuminate biblical faith.

.

Free thinkers are really dictators of thought. Atheists and skeptics close the door on finds that prove the Bible. The literally direct it, control it, and it comes down to ruling, one world government, dictatorship.

There has been an agenda throughout history to discredit the Bible even in historic value.

So in the 1930s, they had determined Exodus to be in Rameses as Pharoah. Without finding anything they declared, the bible and God to be dead. Then with atheism force of their agenda, based in Satanism really. Satan rules and the goal is to eliminate God and His people and that's what we see today, no matter how unreasonable, it's a closed door.

But the door was closed for all of you "free thinkers" by the dictating "free thinkers"

1st of all I'll say many Biblical scholars were asleep at the wheel. So they are to blame for apathy.

Genesis is very detailed on geneology, just math tells you the approx time period of Exodus.

There was a place called Rameses generations before Exodus, because the word Rameses as in the place, the jumped to a conclusion, and instead of using simple math, the intellectuals did it their way, conveniently.

So your a historian you have simple math in ancient texts, do you study it? Or assume based on word association?

Apparently simple is to easy for the atheist and skeptic, so let's just go with word association!

"Patterns of Evidence-Exodus" is a well done documentary proving all stories from Joseph to Moses to the walls of Jericho!

Right were it's supposed to be be by my own study of simple math in geneology purposely detailed by God in Genesis.

Also location is tricky for a few reason, changes in names modern map compared to ancient map. And also commercialization, if a location says this is a Biblical place, the location can make money in tourism, some areas welcome that and exploit it. Whereas other government do not at all want to confirm biblical artifacts and places.

One factor is Muslim countries do not want to cooperate with confirming biblical History, for obvious reasons.

And all these are obstacles the dictators of free thought don't tell the little free thinkers, because the dictating free thinkers want to discredit the Bible and remove God and Christianity.

Only Jews and Christians, although there are some that want to eliminate violence of Muslims, the religion doesn't bother them.

None of the others bother them, why? Because Satan is behind it, and he is still trying to ascend above God.

The question I have, same with liberal media, I get conservatives do it also, but not nearly to the degree of liberals.

In liberal politics, the free thinkers dictatorship organizations are working conspiracies, and universities also have been infiltrated, Republican also have been infiltrated. But the left is much more of a useful tool. They are tools! And media and universities all tools. Using each other by taught skills of exploitation, manipulation, using everything, even causing harm, to "fix it"

Because the goal is one world rule, basically one world communism. The question is, do you think they wear that on their sleeves, and on display?

So you have this big giant that controls what you get to choose.

So they only allow what they want you to think, and gift wrap it for you all, and call it free thinking! But wouldn't free thinking be to give you all the information and let you all think freely, and conclude freely?

So they found everything in a time line the Bible itself said it would be in, yet they dig 200 years outside of it and tell the world, "see nothing" and when people of integrity in the field show everything, even in sequence of order, they keep the door shut, thereby keeping the door to the little free thinkers minds closed also!

I'd be passed if someone controlled me, I hate it.

Give me info I'll decide for myself!

http://patternsofevidence.com/blog/2016/ 04/07/the-david-rohl-lectures-part-3/

https://youtu.be/8XJf6Nggl0

https://youtu.be/rESYeIRKYMk

https://youtu.be/RSLLl3QOkrY

https://youtu.be/c5N2NFu64w

Side: Yes
1 point

Study religion. Once you are done, you'll need none of us to figure out why.

Side: Yes
1 point

Not logical or scientific ones, simply assumptions and proclamations of faith. Once upon a time, the majority thought the world was flat ... never forget that ...

However, the things such a creature stands for ... behaving and getting along with each other, are valid arguments ...

Side: No
outlaw60(15501) Disputed
1 point

You going to take your arguments let's say to the Middle East ? If not then why is you Progressives support the Muslim Faith ?

Side: Yes
AlofRI(3138) Clarified
1 point

"Why is you Progressives support the Muslim faith?" If you understood English better you might understand that "Progressives" support the RIGHT to ANYONE to believe in their faith! We may not agree with their religious doctrines, but they DO have to, in this country, forego any customs that violate the Constitution! In other countries, they can do what they can get away with, like the middle east. We Progressives even protect YOUR right to accuse us of whatever YOU believe ... after all, conservatives in this country believe we have an over abundance of mentally ill people ... and THEY have the "right' to bear arms!

Progressives believe in the right to ones own beliefs and religion. Progressives believe in the "right to bear arms", progressives believe in the Constitution, but, the Constitution's Number ONE reason for existence, is to protect a person's RIGHT to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. The protection of LIFE includes protection from dangerous religious practices, (including Sharia Law), and dangerous people with guns. The protection of Liberty includes the right to ones own religion (or not) AND the right to bear arms IF you are mentally fit to do so! The protection of the "Pursuit of Happiness" includes the right to live without fear of EITHER a religion or gun wielding idiot! I suggest YOU take your arguments to the middle east since you don't agree with our Constitution (as written).

Side: Yes

Tower of Babel? Part 2...

Think about it. The globalists are pushing a new world order to such a degree that Russia is trying to keep the U.S. from controlling Syria, but why? The U.S. keeps overthrowing leaders and trying to push a global narrative. Russia is fully nationalist and believes in the power of the individual state. Sadly, on this one they are right. I used to think Russia would be on the antichrist's worldview. I'm beginning to think it is us.

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

The Bible said the world was round.

The people obviously didn't always listen to the prophets God sent, so asking what did the people know is a foolish way to conclude anything. Since they had the whole thing memorized and the religious leaders didn't see the fulfillment, even though He was literally standing in front of them face to face and toe to toe!

God really wasn't going out of His way to let everyone know the world is round, it just IS round. But the prophets who saw things God showed them mentioned it, maybe to let us know 4000 years later that God actually was speaking, but the world being round is actually irrelevant to His Word, other than helping skeptics of modern day realize the Creator obviously knew that basic little thing, and so did the prophets he happened to show that little thing to!

Isaiah 40

21 Do you not know? Have you not heard?

Has it not been declared to you from the beginning?

Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,

And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,

Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain

And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Job 26

“He stretches out the north over empty space

And hangs the earth on nothing.

8 “He wraps up the waters in His clouds,

And the cloud does not burst under them.

9 “He obscures the face of the full moon

And spreads His cloud over it.

10 “He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters

At the boundary of light and darkness.

Proverbs 8 (wisdom also John 1 says Jesus is the Word, and all things were made through Him the Word, which is Wisdom and Jesus)

While He had not yet made the earth and the fields,

Nor the first dust of the world.

27 “When He established the heavens, I was there,

When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,

28 When He made firm the skies above,

When the springs of the deep became fixed,

29 When He set for the sea its boundary

So that the water would not transgress His command,

When He marked out the foundations of the earth;

30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman;

And I was daily His delight,

Rejoicing always before Him,

31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth,

And having my delight in the sons of men.

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Clarified
1 point

In Job it is interesting the empty space (hangs a globe north side up, and hangs it to dangle on nothing! You might think His mind traveled in a vision and looked at it from a space station or something!!

And this verse is interesting, "He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness"

It describes separating light from darkness in our information which the Bible often calls "waters" and also

It describes God giving the watery surface of our globe a circular outline!!

It describes earths position in space, again His mind saw as though He was on a space station!

The complication is, the Bible is riddles, or parables. Jesus said I speak in parables so people who have a heart for God can see and understand, while the people who don't can't see anything or understand anything!

It's pretty silly to go to the gospels and read the Parables and not understand to some degree what Jesus was saying, but that's the point, they were nice stories to everyone, but truth was hidden, even if they memorized the stories.

Yet with eyes open, you see connections of a River rushing through time and Eternity connecting Word to Word to Word... and without understanding "your foolish heart is darkened"

He who has an ear to hear .....

Side: Yes

I would say that there are no arguments for the existence of God. All evidence we have today such as evolution and the big bang theory points towards the notion that there is no God. Why believe in God when in all likeliness, he's not there? Yes, the existence of God can't be completely disproved; let's say, hypothetically, that the chance of God existing, when taking into account all the evidence we have today, is 1% (I would argue that the actual figure is much less, but for the sake of argument, let's say it's 1%). That means the chance of God not existing in 99%. You may wish to argue with these figures however, the point I'm making is that the chance of God not existing is far higher than the chance of God existing. So if you don't know the absolute definite answer, surely the wisest option is to go on the basis that the most likely scenario is true?

Side: No
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

I would say you are a fool. Look in the mirror. Do you think you came from mindless matter? Look at your computer. Do you think it came into being by random chance, yet a single cell in your body is infinitely more complex than a computer?

You have to be a fool to say there is no God. To say there is no God, you have to believe in silly things like mindless matter producing intelligence and non-living matter producing life, two scientific impossibilities. Life comes only from life, intelligence/consciousness does not come from mindless matter or from nothing.

You are setting up a brick wall in your mind, the blocks are your sins and you are hiding behind them hoping God can't see you....but the wall is tumbling down and you are falling in sin to Hell. You need God the Savior, Jesus Christ, to bring you up out of it or you have no hope but to escape reality in death and that is a false hope. You did not chose to be here, you cannot by saying "God is not there" make yourself exempt from punishment by Him for your sins.

Side: Yes
UrbanWolf278(53) Disputed
3 points

I am a fool? You think I'm going to hell? You think that someone who's been dead for the past 2016 years is the only one who can save me?

Yes I do think I came from mindless matter. That is a perfectly explainable concept. The idea of evolution makes much more sense than the idea that a divine intelligence, who somehow spawned out of nothing, or was here eternally, created the whole universe and then decided, 'yknow what? I'm just gonna make a tiny little planet in the middle of a little galaxy in a small cluster which will have lumps of meat wandering about on it and green things everywhere.

I'd like to clarify that I do not believe i am here by random chance because evolution is not a random process. The only part of evolution that is random is the mutation in a species that either gives in an advantage or a disadvantage over others. Those with the advantage (say for example, a duck mutates and gains webbed feet) will survive better (because it can now swim faster) and it will reproduce more than ducks without webbed feet. The ducks with webbed feet will grow in population as they are better adapted than the ducks without webbed feet whose population will die out as they get eaten by predators. Now let's say another mutation happens another 1,000 years down the line (a tiny amount of time in comparison to the age of life on earth) which gives the duck longer legs. Now again, this will become the dominant trait within the duck population and that will cause the ducks with shorter feet to die out. The same happened with us. Something very complex can arise from something very simple. The human brain included. Consciousness is a tricky concept. What is it? Let's talk about free will then. You believe, as a Christian, that all humans, and only humans, have free will. Well I would say that so does a computer.

A computer can make decisions, much the same as we can. It gathers information, processes it, and then creates a decision. Any decision we make we believe is for the best for ourselves (obviously), so why are we different from a computer (other than being much more complex)?

A single cell is more complex than a computer, maybe so. But the time for development of a single cell is a hell of a lot more than the time for the development of a computer. The amount of time evolution has had is incomprehensible. It's huge. The age of the uninverse, even more!

'Intelligence/consciousness does not come out of nothing' you say. Then explain to me, from where does the consciousness of god come? How does he come into existence? By your argument, another intelligent being must have created him.

God will punish me for my sins? How do you know?

Side: No
1 point

If God does exist and he is omniscient,omnipotent,omnibenevolent and omnipresent like everyone says he is, then why is there starving children all over this world?If God does exist, he is vindictive and cruel. If he is always there, surely he would be able to stop the terrible things going on in this world because he would be right there after all. If God is all powerful, then why hasn't he stopped these terrible things from happening and why have we not officially seen him? Is he not powerful enough to show his presence? If he is all loving, would he not want to put an end to all the hatred we witness in this earth today? The worst thing is, he knows all about it. He is apparently 'all knowing' meaning he knows about these horrific things but CHOOSES to do nothing about it , even with the power he possesses.

Scientifically, this does not make sense. I understand people have their own beliefs, but this is mine so please do not insult me for it. Do you really think there is a God who listens to your prayers or is it what you want to believe? Do you actually think there is a heaven or hell , or is that just the nicer way of thinking about the taboo of death? Is the bible fiction, based on what people wanted to hear? It can be beautiful, i support the morals, however i simply cannot believe in a God, its to unrealistic and fictitious to me.

Side: No

I agree entirely. Yes, the bible gives some good moral by which to live, but that does by no means give it validity to its basis of the existence of God. If God exists, it raises too many questions like 'Well, why does God exist?' or 'How does God exist?'.

There is immense suffering in the world. Diseases, hunger, extreme poverty. This is all supposedly God's will. God wants this to happen.

Side: No
jeffreyone(1368) Disputed
1 point

Whenever you mention God, you forget the other guy Satan.

There are two sides on this earth with different goals. God's is to save and satan's is to destroy. The people who die everyday wouldn't be enough for satan if God wasn't involved.

God has saved many and satan killed many. But with God you have to make a choice.

Proof God Exists are in the bible......inventions and discoveries made almost 1000 years after they had been prophesied by men of God in the bible....

http://www.everystudent.com/features/bible.html#1

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

"Why does God exist?" is a stupid question. If all you are going to do is ask stupid questions, you can be sure you won't get an answer. If you ask about yourself "why do I exist" and you ask honestly and do not stop asking until you find the truth, you will know God created you and you will know Jesus is God who died for you to save you from Hell, to save you from your sins, to save you from eternal dying in the lake of fire which is the second death.

God's will is for you to believe on His Son who died for you so you can be saved from Hell. If God ended all the pain and suffering when it started or even now, you would be in Hell with no way out.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Clarified
0 points

There is no such thing as morality if you are not a sinner. Morality which is not objective is situation ethics which is based on personal desire and not on morality.

Why in the world you guys go back and forth patting each other on the back with your worn out old atheistic nonsense.......acting like fools and applauding each other in it.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
1 point

God is not omnibenevolent, He cannot be good to evil. God is always good but to evil He cannot be good because the mind of evil is twisted against God and cannot see God as being good.......God hates evil, He is not benevolent toward evil. God punishes evil because it deserves punishment.

God is in control, it is you who is out of control.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1389) Disputed
0 points

"Omnibenevalent" is not a characteristic of God. God cannot be good to evil as evil cannot see God as being good.

Why do you gloat over starving children? And why do you blame God instead of the evil people who run the governments in countries where children are starving? You seem to enjoy starving children as you think it gives you something to hold against God.

If God were to end all evil in the world today, you would be burning in Hell now. The time will come when evil is purged from creation and left to burn in its passion against God in Hell forever.

What does not make sense scientifically is to believe life arose from lifeless matter and intelligence/consciousness came from mindless matter. These are two scientific impossibilities.

Please do not insult you for your belief? You are insulting everybody who believes God is still on His throne and will judge the living and the dead.

God is not all loving, God hates evil.

These silly arguments you make are so tired and worn out it's amazing that so many people like you parrot these ideas mindlessly. The truth of the matter is that you walk according to your lusts and you don't want God to rule over you. That's just too bad for you, isn't it? God still is on His throne and He rules over you even if He can only prove it by leaving you dying forever in the lake of fire.

Your whole post is a rambling insult against God and those who trust in Him. "Please don't insult me for my beliefs" you say as you insult every way you can think of against God and His people...and you think God is going to spare you from Hell? Really?

Side: Yes
ellalou31(9) Disputed
2 points

I don't believe in a God, therefore i don't believe he will spare me from hell because i don't think there even is a hell. Maybe i have insulted you, this may be because of the insults i have received for being atheist and having these beliefs, i can be quite defensive on this topic so I'm sorry if i have offended you.

I was saying if there is a god by some chance then i do not see how he is a pleasant God because of the things going on in this world. I do blame the governments entirely, i do not blame a god because i don't think there is a God to blame. He is supposedly all powerful yet he doesn't change a thing, he is all knowing so he knows about it all and he is also always there so he has the chance to change it. Anyway I'm going to leave this debate here, i do not want to get too involved in this topic because clearly i insult people with my views.

Side: No