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The epic of Gilgamesh is the flood. It's from Sumarian mythology and is basically the literal same story nearly word fir word as noahs ark. Their whole god was taken frompast religions. Many god's before jesus were born on the 25th of December, to a virgin, of another god, did miracles, had 12 disciples, died or was killed, stayed dead for 3 days, ans rose from the dead to heaven. Examples: Horus from Egypt, Mithra from Persia. Also the dates are pagan. Example: Jesus is born on the 25th, the solstice. He's resurrected in spring during the rebirth of nature after the death of winter. Coincidence? I don't think so
First of all, is telling the same story because it IS the same story. The fact of the matter is, just because the biblical account was (hypothetically) taken from the Sumerian mythology (and mythologies usually have some kind of basis in historical events, i.e. the Illyad and the Trojan War), does not mean that it is false. Also, another fun fact, EVERY culture in the world, no matter how isolated, has a flood myth. That in itself is strong proof for a global flood.
Secondly, Jesus is not your typical god. Most other gods in mythology hold strongly to their power and often use it as a means to an end, usually only degrading themselves to human bodies whenever they needed to directly communicate with other mortals or have relations with them. No other small "g" "god" has ever had a religion previously based on the return of that specific "god" in the form of roughly 40 separate prophecies written hundreds, if not thousands of years apart.
Thirdly, yes, the gods of many other religions were born on december 25th. However, Christmas day was placed on that date BECAUSE it was a pagan holiday and it was put in place to overshadow and outsource the celebrations of these previous holidays, most importantly, the Winter Solstice and the birthday of Mithra. Another fun fact, the earliest recorded placing of Jesus' actual birthday was May 20th as written by Clement of Alexandria.
Finally, the resurrection of Jesus follows the same pattern. Though it is known that he rose again AROUND Easter, in my knowledge, this is not the actual day of his resurrection, it is only CELEBRATED on this day, as established by the Roman Emperor, Constantine, to overshadow the pagan holidays previously established.
So, no. It's not a coincidence. The holidays commonly celebrated in today's culture were placed there on purpose to overshadow the previous pagan traditions.
Not once in my argument did i state that the religion itself was falsified. All i said was that HOLIDAYS, which were already previously celebrated by the early church, were REPOSITIONED on the calendar to overshadow pagan holidays. Do not attempt to add words to what i said, it only discredits your argument
Not once in my argument did i state that the religion itself was falsified. All i said was that HOLIDAYS, which were already previously celebrated by the early church, were REPOSITIONED on the calendar to overshadow pagan holidays. Do not attempt to add words to what i said, it only discredits your argument
Not once in my argument did i state that the religion itself was falsified. All i said was that HOLIDAYS, which were already previously celebrated by the early church, were REPOSITIONED on the calendar to overshadow pagan holidays. Do not attempt to add words to what i said, it only discredits your argument
Well the tower of babel was right after the flood; all humans were congregated there at one time. Do you not think that as they were there people were able to share stories with one another about the past? It makes perfect sense as to why Gilgamesh told of the great flood and then Moses did. In fact, there are many more religions that tell of this aspect! If anything stories like these actually reinforce the Bible!
The stories of Jesus were all based on astrological metaphores. This is why dozens of religions across time and the world share so many similarites. The ancients had no way to understand the heavens other than the stars and Earths position relative to them.
The Bible is composed of 66 parts, or books, written over a period of approximately 1,500 years (from about 1450 BC to about 90 AD) by over 40 different people. These writers were all different from each other. Some were rich, some poor, some young, some old. Some were priests, some prophets, one was a tax collector (Matthew), one was a doctor (Luke), a tentmaker (Paul), and a fisherman (Peter). Yet they all wrote about the same man who claimed to be God - Jesus Christ. On the surface, there might seem to be disagreement between the writers, but if you study deeper, you will find that they all agree about Jesus Christ, God, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the end times, salvation, heaven, hell, etc.
Not all collections of religious writings can claim this feature. The Koran was entirely written through the revelations of one man, Mohummad. The Book of Mormon was entirely written through one man, Joseph Smith.
It signifies that the Bible is true and different than any other religions or their writings. It is God breathed He is the author, it proves the Bible is copied.
It proves nothing about "divine inspiration". We don't know who wrote it or if Jesus, peter, Matthew ect even existed. 40 authors, try hundreds. You must could all of the translators and scribes who copied the book by hand before the press. There are many MANY contradictions in the bible as well as changes in writing style in a few passages suggesting they were edited in. Also theres very little if any difference in writing style between the gospels.
Luke, a Bible writer, is one example. His details about Roman officials such as "Sergio Paulus of Cyprus," "Gallio, the proconsul of Achaia," "Herod the Great," "Pontius Pilate," and "King Agrippa,"are all confirmed by ancient Roman historical records and archeology. Even unbelieving scholars agree that King David, King Solomon, the Philistines, and countless other persons mentioned in the Bible were real people, and that such cities as Ephesus, Philippi, and Thessalonica were real places. The ancient Ebla Tablets, a collection of 17,000 tablets discovered since 1968 and written around 2,500 B.C. mention the biblical cities of Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar, found in Genesis 14. The Mari Tablets, 25,000 tablets written in 1,900 B.C., mention the names of Abraham, Jacob, Nahor, Dan, Levi, Benjamin, and Ishmael, found in the book of Genesis. Also a Canaanite bronze calf was discovered a couple of years ago and reported in Time magazine, confirming the Bible's account that pagan nations worshipped calves. There is proof just do some research without a bias heart.
I am familiar with these stories man has made up to try steal the Bibles authenticity. Satan will use anything and any lie to drive people away from God and His Word.
Then why were they written hundreds of years after the events ''the stories'' you say the Bible stole?
Consider the case of Sargon’s birth. Legend has it that Sargon was placed in a reed basket and sent down the river by his mother. He was rescued by Aqqi, who then adopted him as his own son. Sounds a lot like the story Moses in Exodus 2, doesn’t it? And Sargon lived about 800 years before Moses was born. So the Moses baby-sent-down-the-river-only-to-be-rescued-and-adopted story must have been borrowed from Sargon, right?
That sounds reasonable on the face of it, but what is known of Sargon comes almost entirely from legends written many hundreds of years after his death. There are very few contemporary records of Sargon’s life. The legend of Sargon’s childhood, how he was placed in a basket and sent down a river, comes from two 7th century BC cuneiform tablets (from the library of the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal, who reigned from 668 to 627 BC), written hundreds of years after the book of Exodus. If someone wants to argue that one account was borrowed from another, it would have to be the other way around: the Sargon legend appears to have borrowed from the Exodus account of Moses.
then why were they written hundreds of years after the events ''the stories'' you say the Bible stole?
They where written thousands of years before the events in the bible genius
Consider the case of Sargon’s birth. Legend has it that Sargon was placed in a reed basket and sent down the river by his mother. He was rescued by Aqqi, who then adopted him as his own son. Sounds a lot like the story Moses in Exodus 2, doesn’t it? And Sargon lived about 800 years before Moses was born. So the Moses baby-sent-down-the-river-only-to-be-rescued-and-adopted story must have been borrowed from Sargon, right?
Your just an idiot and think without doing research because your stupid and want to prove god doesnt exist your arguments are pathetic and inconsequential and so far you havent changed anyone's mind(including mine -_-) its funny how most of you athiests will do whatever it takes to get us to change our minds XD
wow such a great argument couldent come up with anything else eh? Alright then and you dont see me forcing my religion on you and I dont think any other christians on this site are either (including catholics and other religions that belive in god)
There is nothing to indicate that the "bible" is anything more than a collection of fiction. The writers of the bible were ignorant primitives who did not even know what happened to the sun at night.
Different time periods. The norse version of Hel and the the Judeo-Christian Hell are most likely the same, but the Hell was a concept that existed long before the norse Hel and was probably influenced by the influx of christians during the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire during the reign of Emperor Constantine in the 6th century, which included the germanic lands from which many norsemen hailed.
not true, the Koran was descended from Allah to the prophet Mohammad who wrote it. and it was the same ever since and no one ever changed anything from it. They translated the Koran to english but those translations are not accurate and unfavorable. That is also why they say that if you want to read the Koran, you should read it in its original language "Arabic" because the translations they made to the Koran so people can understand it, do not give the correct concept since arabic words have different meanings and one change in any word's meaning, might cause an entire sentence to have a different meaning!
Lie, Koran was written about 80 years after Mohamed's death. He was illiterate idiot he did not wrote anything. It was written by many people, it's a collection of myth different people remembered.
Also the thing about changing ... words looks same but you change meaning ... which is more less same as rewriting.
false, and the one who told you that is a retarded liar who you foolishly believed. Koran was written 1433 years ago, it was the last holy book descended. he was not illiterate and was not an idiot, you are one unlike you. Koran is also not a collection of myth. if you do not wish to believe so, you don't have to and no one is forcing you to do so. but you should at least not speak ill of someone who did nothing wrong in your behalf.
Also, the thing about changing, what you said is wrong. Arabic words have several meanings and one word translated wrong can make an entire sentence change which is why it is not favorable to read the Koran in english. it is not the same as rewriting, they translated it so foreigners could understand what they are reading only, but some of the words have a meaning that is not intended to be.
Mohamed was illiterate, he was equivalent for present homeless drug dealers... so you can imagine how educated he was.
List of Co-Authors of the Koran:
Imrul Qays-an ancient poet of Arabia who died a few decades before Muhammad's birth
Zayd b. Amr b. Naufal-an 'apostate' of his time who preached and propagated Hanifism
Labid-another poet
Hasan b. Thabit-the official poet of Muhammad
Salman, the Persian-Muhammad's confidante' and an advisor
Bahira-a Nestorian Christian monk of the Syrian church
Jabr-a Christian neighbour of Muhammad
Ibn Qumta-a Christian slave
Khadijah-Muhammad's first wife
Waraqa-Khadijah's cousin brother
Ubay b. Ka'b-Muhammad's secretary and a Qur'an scribe
Muhammad himself
There were other parties involved too. They were:
The Sabeans
Aisha-Muhammad's child bride
Abdallah b. Salam b. al-Harith-a Jewish convert to Islam
Mukhyariq-a Rabbi and another Jewish convert to Islam
It's a plagiary book, so it also contains flat Earth taken from Jews Torah. However word that used to mean stretch (stretched the Earth and used mountains as a perks) from 2007 means "egg" ...and there so many similar cases
Imrul Qays-an ancient poet of Arabia who died a few decades before Muhammad's birth
Zayd b. Amr b. Naufal-an 'apostate' of his time who preached and propagated Hanifism
Labid-another poet
Hasan b. Thabit-the official poet of Muhammad
Salman, the Persian-Muhammad's confidante' and an advisor
Bahira-a Nestorian Christian monk of the Syrian church
Jabr-a Christian neighbour of Muhammad
Ibn Qumta-a Christian slave
Khadijah-Muhammad's first wife
Waraqa-Khadijah's cousin brother
Ubay b. Ka'b-Muhammad's secretary and a Qur'an scribe
Muhammad himself
There were other parties involved too. They were:
The Sabeans
Aisha-Muhammad's child bride
Abdallah b. Salam b. al-Harith-a Jewish convert to Islam
Mukhyariq-a Rabbi and another Jewish convert to Islam
It's a plagiary book, so it also contains flat Earth taken from Jews Torah. However word that used to mean stretch (stretched the Earth and used mountains as a perks) from 2007 means "egg" ...and there so many similar cases
Imrul Qays, was a poet who was a obsessed with a woman called laila, btw, the Koran was descended on Mohammad not anyone else, before him, and imral was born after mohammad.
Zayd was also a poet, who had nothing to do with the Koran
Labid, also a poet who had nothing to do with Koran
Hassan b. Thabit was the prophet's poet who praised Mohammad and the islamic relegion, who did not co-author the koran
Salman who was a persian, was agnostic and searching for a true relegion, he found it after Mohammad met him.
Bahira was a monk who met Mohammad when he was 13 years old and warned his uncle to not send him to domascus because they will know that he was a prophet and kill him, so he sent him back to Meccah, and he did not co-author the koran, he died before the islamic religion was descended.
Jabr-a does not exist, the neighbour you are talkiong about was called waraka bin nawfal, he believed in Mohammad and did not co-author the koran.
there was no christian slaves at that time, they did not know relegion in all its bases.
Khadija protected Mohammad from the agnostic people since theyrejected religion
Ubay was one of those who were promised of heaven before they died, he did not have any authority of messing with the koran
Mohammad himself was not able to read or write, which made everyone surprised of the fact that teh language was very stern and hard, in the Koran, omar bin il khattab and abou baker and othman and Ali where the ones who wrote the koran after Mohammad told them what to write according to what Allah descended upon him.
Abdallah bin salam was a jew who turned to islamic relegion afetr he read from the bible about Mohammad and awaited for him until he appeared and he made his entire family become muslims as well and became an enemy of the jews.
Aisha gave all the information of what the Prophet Mohammad did and memorized the heavinly sayings and remained 30 years speaking of that, she also did not co-auther the koran.
On the contrary, the koran does not state the shape of the earth. (stretched by which they mean the sky not the earth...and what did you mean with eggs?? -_-
finally, the jews tried to co-auther and fascilitate the translation of the koran not the koran itself, allot of people have puny sized brains converted allot of stories from the koran and called themselves the shiaa, they commonly are found in Iran, and they are not considered as muslims, because they converted the entire islamic religion in their own way.
have you ever read the koran? i am pretty sure you do not understand it well.
I actually think that those stories that were not multiple perspectives viewing the same event were copying the Bible, or using it to further their agenda.
Do I have evidence for this? Not really. But I believe I'm correct, even if I can't properly explain the logical processes behind my decision all the time.
It doesnt necessarily mean the flood was copied. It just means that the flood occured and more than one people placed down different accounts on it. You're just assuming it was copied because someone wrote the book of Gilgamesh before it.
After reading from a site that seems impartial to me because it documented both sides of the argument, i'll place what it states.
"From the early days of the comparative study of these two flood accounts, it has been generally agreed that there is an obvious relationship."
"Dating of the oldest fragments of the Gilgamesh account originally indicated that it was older than the assumed dating of Genesis."
"However, the probability exists that the Biblical account had been preserved either as an oral tradition, or in written form handed down from Noah, through the patriarchs and eventually to Moses, thereby making it actually older than the Sumerian accounts which were restatements (with alterations) to the original."
The book he used to support his final point is O'Brien, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", p. 64.
First off, way to be understanding and sensitive of the issue at hand. Good job.
Secondly, according to this logic, all mankind has ever done is "copied" off one another. Everything we have, from language to technology to city planning has come from somewhere else.
nope, if anything they copied stories from the bible. Actual findings dating further back then any other religion or story told have been found. Like the recent findings of the book of psalms. Even reasearchers who don't believe in God will admit that the stories are original and true.
Wrong. Judaism was around easily 1300 years before Christianity was even formed. I don't think your claims are right, since countless religions have existed before Christianity, including, but not limited, to: Judaism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Epicureanism, Jainism, Stoicism, Taoism, Hinduism and the other pagan religions. Many stories from the Bible are lifted from other books, notably the Epic of Gilgamesh (ripped off by Noah's Ark), Horus' birth from the Egyptian religion (ripped off by Jesus' birth), the Egyptian Book of the Dead (ripped off by the Ten Commandments), the Assyrian King Sargon's birth (ripped off by Moses' birth), and even Joseph from the Old Testament (ripped off by Jesus). Oh, and learn to spell "researchers".
What! Almost all religions and mythologies have a Hell ( A place of eternal damnation.) or some sort of Heaven, and a god of all gods. For example in Egyptian after-life, when you die you travel to the Hall of The Dead and your heart is weighed against the feather of Ma'at, if your heart is lighter than the feather you lived forever, if it was heavier your heart was devoured by the demon Ammit the Destroyer. African After-life :They that are born are destined to die; and the dead to be brought to life again; and the living to be judged, to know, to make known, and to be made conscious that He is God, He the Maker, He the Creator, He the Discerner, He the Judge, He the Witness, He the Complainant; He it is that will in future judge, blessed be He, with whom there is no unrighteousness, nor forgetfulness, nor respect of persons, nor taking of bribes. Know also that everything is according to reckoning; and let not your imagination give you hope that the grave will be a place of refuge for you. For perforce you were formed, and perforce you were born, and perforce you live, and perforce you will die, and perforce you will in the future have to give account and reckoning before the King of kings, the Holy One, blessed be He.
It's the other way around. Since God created man to begin with, a little over 6000 years ago, (the universe, however, is far older), it was the Bible "stories" that were copied by other religions. Other religions did not yet exist at the beginning of man's creation. But God began teaching man about him and his purposes for the earth at the outset.
All stories in the Bible were all original. For the reason that Bible were created according to God's wisdom (from the creation to apocalypse) and not on human knowledge.
Stop saying that! You're just assuming because the gilgamesh predates the other. that is no hardcore evidence, because for all we know they're might be a piece of paper out there that archeologists havent found that predates gilgamesh