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Are people entitled to think there is an agenda to destroy Western society?
Yes
Side Score: 18
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No, shut up
Side Score: 18
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People are entitled to think whatever they want. What matters is how they act. I think you should give me your number, but what really matters is that you act by doing it so we can get together later and I can motorboat your butt crack like it ain't nobody's god damned beez-nips. Side: No, shut up
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Well, MOST of us will do it regardless. The right-wing would rather leave the "thinking" up to others and just parrot what they hear and read. That's why Putin is being so successful at convincing non-college-educated white men to follow Trump, they don't like to think! That fact explains why they feel a kinship to a Pr*sident who ALSO hates to "think" ..... just like them. "Do my thinking for me and I'll follow you anywhere"! The non-thinking, non-reading rectum derived edict of Herr Gropenfuhrer just sends tingles to their thighs, and "they'll do it regardless"- of the damage it's doing to this country! Side: Yes
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Human stupidity and group think are not partisan issues limited to 'the right-wing'. You are absolute proof of that. Then again, you're only considered on the left in America, and that's only because America has gone full insane. Trump and MAGA did not happen in a vacuum Would you be defending the Nazis like this too, you idiot? Nobody cares why Trump happened. He happened. Get rid of him first and THEN work out why he happened. Side: Yes
You are absolute proof of that. Then again, you're only considered on the left in America, and that's only because America has gone full insane. I'd say its 60:40 me being considered left or right in the states. Neither side wants me and both sides can only think of the other side as the only alternative position. The US political spectrum being narrowly conceived is nothing novel, but partisanship is a pretty human thing (in/out group dynamics and all that). Would you be defending the Nazis like this too, you idiot? Nobody cares why Trump happened. He happened. Get rid of him first and THEN work out why he happened. I'm not defending Trump or MAGA and I wouldn't defend the Nazis either. Not caring how we got here is a significant part of how we got here and it is a part of why we'll stay here too. Trump and what they stand for aren't going to go away if we don't understand and address how they got there in the first place. Side: No, shut up
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Let's also be clear about where "here" is. It's fascism. Fascism or something incredibly close to fascism. It has happened because for decades the right wing has worked to drag the centre further and further right, and for decades the American people have been spoonfed capitalist bubblegum propaganda which has become increasingly more ridiculous as the years have progressed. We are now at the stage where Americans have a different version of history, think superheroes are real and believe being right is a question of how much force you are prepared to use and/or how many times you thank Jesus. Side: Yes
Let's also be clear about where "here" is. It's fascism. Fascism or something incredibly close to fascism. Hey, look, we agree on something. I'd add systemic racism, sexism, mentalism, etc to where we're at but that's all pretty well tied up in the fascism/authoritarianism. It has happened because for decades the right wing has worked to drag the centre further and further right, and for decades the American people have been spoonfed capitalist bubblegum propaganda which has become increasingly more ridiculous as the years have progressed. We are now at the stage where Americans have a different version of history, think superheroes are real and believe being right is a question of how much force you are prepared to use and/or how many times you thank Jesus. I broadly agree with you here. We differ in that I think quite poorly of the 'left' wing in the states as well; there's not much by way of political spectrum in the US and it's more or less different brands of the same neoliberal capitalist shit. That said, I think there might be more passive dissent then you're allowing for since the average person in the states just isn't in a position to overthrow one of the bastions of neoliberal capitalism without serious risk and/or cost; their participation isn't necessarily a sign of ideological agreement so much as a testament to the depths of their conviction (or lack thereof). Most people are still idiots, though; I doubt that's especially unique to Americans, frankly. Side: Yes
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I'm not defending Trump or MAGA and I wouldn't defend the Nazis either. Not caring how we got here is a significant part of how we got here and it is a part of why we'll stay here too. Trump and what they stand for aren't going to go away if we don't understand and address how they got there in the first place. OK, well at least you are being more rational this evening. But I don't think you want to address the reasons why you got here. I think you want to stand on your pulpit preaching moral righteousness. Side: No, shut up
OK, well at least you are being more rational this evening. But I don't think you want to address the reasons why you got here. I think you want to stand on your pulpit preaching moral righteousness. My position hasn't changed so it's interesting that your assessment has. Given that I'm anti-moralist value nihilist I'm also not liable to be preaching moral righteousness anytime soon. I'm not excluding myself from my sweeping claims about complicity either; I'm definitely implicated in this shit along with most everyone else. Whether I personally want to or am doing anything to address that is besides the point of my observation that understanding how we got here is important to getting out of here. Side: Yes
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"I'm not overly concerned with the country anyways tbh." That's exactly how Trump feels. He's only concerned with himself, and, as he likes to say, "No other President has done that." EXACTLY why we NEED to get rid of him! He "promised" the best health care in the world. He promised to protect DACA. He promised to bring manufacturing back to the U.S.. He promised to protect LGBTQ's. He promised this virus would "just go away". He promised that ANYONE who wanted a test (the best tests in the world) could get one. (No, and half of them are CRAP!). He promised great trade deals (He re-worded the NAFTA deal and tweeked it a bit). He promised "The most transparent administration in history"! (We got the LEAST)! He lies when his mouth's moving ---- every time! He promised cheaper drugs, he gave us less than Nancy Pelosi's bill, by FAR! He's GIVEN U.S. CRAP! He promised Putin a LOT, I'm sure. I'd LOVE to know WHAT! HE NEEDS TO GO! :-('Cause he's not overly concerned with the country, tbh!) Side: Yes
Unclear if you're just ranting against Trump or equating my indifference towards the country with that of Trump. If the former, sure I don't disagree. If the latter, we can start with me not being potus and then safely speculate that our indifference has pretty different foundations. Side: Yes
And go where? To some other country I also don't care about? Anyways, leaving would be more effort than it seems worth. I'm certainly not going to do it to alleviate your concerns with me, lol. I'm not even sure what you find so concerning about me. Most people are not concerned with the country they live in, however much they might profess to be. There's also no compelling reason that anyone should care about any country. Side: Yes
"Most people are not concerned with the country they live in." That must be a spreading disease. We have an alleged "President" who feels the same way, and you must see the problems THAT is causing. I hope this disease spreads much more slowly than the major one we are facing at the moment. We would be better off if this major one would start "at the top", it would be cured much quicker. Instead, we have to wait for a special vaccine called a "vote"! Your disease seems to be spreading through primarily non-college-educated white men, and they don't even realize they have it! They THINK they care about this country while destroying it from within. It must be a disease of the mind. You have my sympathy, if not my support. Side: Yes
You can keep your sympathy, bootlicker. There is no such thing as 'the country' and putting yourself into service of that idea is putting yourself into service of the exceedingly small fraction of people who actually have substantive political power and who are most directly responsible for fucking up the environment and perpetuating intranational and international violence. Voting is easily among the most trivial forms of political action a person can possibly engage in. The odds of your vote making any difference in any way are next to bloody nothing. To say nothing of the fact that most (if not all) voting systems are plagued by systemic injustice (e.g. racist, mentalist, classist, and zenophobic disenfranchisement). Speaking of mentalism, you can take yours and shove it. Side: No, shut up
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Your mentalist pathologization of people who do not care about the country is obviously pro-state I disagree. I think you are unfairly making him out to be a nationalist. Caring about your country is generic language which can have a lot of meanings, with not all of them being sinister. He probably meant community rather than country. Side: Yes
I think you're being too generous. 'Community' does not make sense as a substitution in this context, nor does anything else that doesn't invoke the nation-state because the nation-state has been present throughout their remarks: they compared my indifference to that of Trump towards the nation-state of the US that he governs, claimed that the state apparatus of voting was the cure for the 'mental disease' of indifference, and then asked me to leave the country because of my indifference towards its welfare. Branding them a mentalist and a statist on those grands is not unreasonable. Edit: If they had meant 'community' then they could only do so by taking my use of 'country' obviously out of context in order to unfairly claim that I don't care about my immediate social relationships. Interesting, then, that I'm the only one you're calling out. Side: Yes
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I think you're being too generous. 'Community' does not make sense as a substitution in this context Why? nor does anything else that doesn't invoke the nation-state Why? because the nation-state has been present throughout their remarks Show me where he used the term "nation-state". Forgive my cynicism, but they sound like your own words which you are trying to put into his mouth. they compared my indifference to that of Trump towards the nation-state of the US that he governs No, I think you are twisting his words into something they aren't. Side: Yes
Why? For the reasons already provided. Why? For the reasons already provided. Show me where he used the term "nation-state". Forgive my cynicism, but they sound like your own words which you are trying to put into his mouth. Show me where they used the term 'community'. Forgive my cynicism, but it sounds like your own word chosen for the obvious purpose of salvaging their reputation without total diregard to context. I never claimed that they used the term 'nation-state'; I pointed out that its heavily and obviously implied by context and then discussed that context (which you largely ignored). No, I think you are twisting his words into something they aren't. They said that explicitly. They were discussing national politics, I said that I wasn't overly concerned with the country, and they directly responded to that statement by claiming "That's exactly how Trump feels" after which point they continued discussing national politics. It's reasonable to think that when someone describes the behavior of the potus (a nation-state position) in a discussion of national politics that they mean 'nation-state' when they say 'country' and not 'community'. Similarly, when you discuss voting as a solution to a problem with national politics you are obviously discussing an apparatus of the nation-state. And when you ask someone to leave your country during a discussion of national politics in which you are concerned about the 'disease' of their indifference that plainly means leaving a nation-state so that you no longer influence it through the voting apparatus of that nation-state which they were just discussing. If anyone is twisting words here it's obviously you. Despite my entire exchange with them revolving around an explicit discussion of national politics you are insisting that they meant 'community' even though they've never used that term and there's nothing about the context which supports that read. All in an attempt to salvage their reputation, for some reason that's beyond me. Side: No, shut up
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For the reasons already provided. You obviously didn't provide a valid reason. Show me where they used the term 'community'. If you can't substantiate your own claims then have the goddamned courage to admit it. Don't distort something I have said and use it to avoid the question. I'm not even reading the rest of that trash. In fact I'm going to downvote it just on the general principle that you're misrepresenting what other people are saying. Side: Yes
I'm not even reading the rest of that trash. In fact I'm going to downvote it just on the general principle that you're misrepresenting what other people are saying. No youβre downvoting it (using alt accounts) because yet again you were called on your BS and you cannot defend your ridiculous comments, again you accuse others of what youβre doing such is your childishness when defeated. You think by downvoting no one will see your ridiculous tantrums in print , at least you didnβt screech β youβre a Nazi β so I guess one could call that βprogreesβ Side: No, shut up
You obviously didn't provide a valid reason. Asserting that I did not provide a valid reason is a far cry from demonstrating the invalidity of my reasons. If you can't substantiate your own claims then have the goddamned courage to admit it. Don't distort something I have said and use it to avoid the question. Except that I have substantiated my own claims, repeatedly and at length. I'm not distorting what you said to avoid the question; I'm pointing out that your position is equally unsupported by the metric you introduced. I'm not even reading the rest of that trash. In fact I'm going to downvote it just on the general principle that you're misrepresenting what other people are saying. If you can't be bothered to substantiate your views or engage others' positions as part of reasoned discourse at least have the goddamned courage to admit it. Don't distort something I've said and then avoid the question. Side: No, shut up
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Jace, conversation with you is pointless because you are mentally unwell. You repeatedly accused Alfie of using a term he did not use and making an argument he did not make. If you are not prepared to make honest arguments then I am not prepared to read through your shitposts. Are we clear? Side: Yes
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Burrito, conversation with you is impossible because you aren't interested in having one Oh shut up you condescending idiot. I'm not interested in you distorting the things other people say you mad bitch. That's what you don't like. You're untruthful, you're dishonest, you're incapable of self-criticism and you're just generally a complete cunt of a person. Side: Yes
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You cannot own up to your more trivial deficiencies so it's hardly surprising that you cannot own your misogyny either. You call people bitches and cunts because you think it is insulting to do so. I suspect you call people women and females for the same reason. This makes you a misogynist regardless of my gender or sex. Side: No, shut up
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π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ Side: No, shut up
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No; I'm not suggesting people emulate Trump. I mean like if people weren't so preoccupied serving themselves up to 'the country' and bothered to give a shit about their everyday interactions and relationships with other beings instead of being passive consumers programmed by social convention then maybe things wouldn't be quite so shit. Side: No, shut up
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