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Debate Info

8
17
Must have organized religions No, God is enough to live by
Debate Score:25
Arguments:14
Total Votes:27
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 Must have organized religions (6)
 
 No, God is enough to live by (8)

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As Christians there is but one God in whom we believe BUT why isn't that enough?

**Interpretation of the Scriptures?**

Why do we cling to our religions first and God second? Are not the words of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ enough to live by? In this debate I'd love to hear how each of feels about what I've just asked and why you think your religion is more believable or closer to God's and Jesus' teachings than others. Can you also tell me if you have ever thought or researched converting to another religion or if yours is the one you were born into because of familial beliefs.


Must have organized religions

Side Score: 8
VS.

No, God is enough to live by

Side Score: 17

I do believe there is a place for organized religion in our world. Not all people follow the 10th Commandment and some need a weekly reminder of God's word and His day...the Sabbath. Many people get into such a rut of the scheduling in life they must have a slot to put God into so they won't forget! They must also have rules to follow so for them, anything organized is much easier to follow rather than allowing the full spectrum of God and Godliness to simply flow through their lives.

Side: Must have organized religions
2 points

I think the difference here is between "religion" and "faith" or "belief". It has been the case throughout much of recorded history that the religion of an era, culture, or society has never reflect the complete spectrum of beliefs of that time and place. I do not think it is possible. But what the religion does reflect is the overall socially exceptable guidelines. God alone is not a guideline. If just knowing what is right were enough, no spiritual person would need laws. And, yet, even the mostly saintly good intentioned believer can end up in jail. While the most law-abiding, kind person can be a sinner.

People need religion, laws, social rules, and legal restrictions to help them make decisions. God alone is never enough--no matter how strong the faith.

Side: Faith versus religion
1 point

I do see your point and it is a good one, however, for many these are one and the same (religion, faith and belief). For other each of these may feel differently to that person. Is it semantics or is there a definable difference? I'll leave that to the individual. None are perfect and it is so that some can and do end up in jail and aren't we all sinners no matter what? For me, the Words of God and Jesus are enough and I daresay that so many of our laws are based in the commandments and social rules based in the teachings of Jesus. The Golden Rule is also a wonderful thing to live by if only we could do it with consistency.

Side: No, God is enough to live by

Why do we cling to our religions first and God second? Are not the words of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ enough to live by? In this debate I'd love to hear how each of feels about what I've just asked and why you think your religion is more believable or closer to God's and Jesus' teachings than others. Can you also tell me if you have ever thought or researched converting to another religion or if yours is the one you were born into because of familial beliefs.

First of all i strongly believe that no religion saves, only jesus, The bible says he is the way the , truth and the life. It doesnt say, If you believe in this religion youll be saved. Why do we waste our time trying to be all religious when we dont even have a relationship with the living God, who can truly save us.

Side: Must have organized religions

I do not believe in MY religion. I believe in GOD, first and foremost. It's possible that others need something to see so they can live by it forgetting that the most powerful words of all came from God, Jesus Christ and the Bible.

Side: Must have organized religions
1 point

Of course it isn't enough. Christians need common sense too. That way they could realize that there was no god to begin with.

Side: Religion is Bullshit
4 points

i don't think (for religious people) that they should have organized religion, but I don't think it's that bad either. For most people, they need a sort of guidance, they don't know how to show their love or what exactly God wants, so they go to organized religion to pretty much help them understand what God wants.

But, i don't think it's a MUST. well, i'm not religious at all anyway, but i think i've made my point.

Side: No, God is enough to live by

There isn't really a side for atheist but here it goes:

Both my parents are fairly religious, my father is a Catholic and my mother is a Protestant. I've gone to Catholic Church almost every Sunday for my entire life (still do) and there was a point in my life when I considered myself very religious.

Then I started to think. In Sunday school class a teacher asked the question: "why does God let bad things happen to good people?" This seemed like an obvious question to me so I responded that bad things happen to everybody; if good things happened to good people and bad things happened to bad people then there would be no point to heaven and hell, because everyone would already have received justice.

I was satisfied with the explanation I had come up with and forgot about it. Later though the I thought about the subject again. If people only helped others so they could get into heaven, were they being selfish? I couldn't for the life of me come up with a suitable response. I had thought that people should do good deeds because they were good, not because they were going to receive some reward, or be punished if they didn't.

On that same note I didn't understand why, if Christianity was correct, the majority of humanity, billions of people, would be sent to hell, for no other reason then because they were born into, or chose the wrong religion.

I guess this is why I don't like organized religion (or religion in general for that matter). It is far too much "us vs. them" mentality. We are morally superior because our god is the right one. Obviously not all religious people are like this, and even the vast majority are probably benign in their beliefs, but when you look how easily religion can be used as a tool for hate and intolerance then you see why organized religion is dangerous. I'm not trying to pick on religion though, I feel the same way about nationalism.

I have nothing against religious people - in fact I respect them in a lot of ways - but blindly following an organisation that uses indoctrination as it's main tool for membership, and claims to be infallible...well I guess you get my point.

Side: Who needs god

Yes, I do get yours and Pyggy's. Very well put, both of you. As an atheist your views are especially important to the debate because you can and do see both sides. You were raised in a religious household and then made your choices. I'm just not wholly certain if you have just turned your back on religion per se or on God. "Why do bad things happen to good people" is a book written by a Rabbi, Harold S. Kuschner...and it's a powerhouse of a book. We always blame God....for everything that happens in our lives and never more so than when something dreadful has just occurred. It's great reading. So are the "Conversations with God" series.

Side: No, God is enough to live by

In my argument I talked about my moral issues with religion. The second part that I didn't mention about my views is the logical aspect that caused me to become an atheist.

In human history there have been hundreds, if not thousands of differant gods people have believed in. The Egyptian Gods, the Roman Gods, the Greek Gods, the Norse Gods, the Hindu Gods, the Native American Gods and Spirits, and even the monotheistic Gods of western culture. To paraphrase Richard Dawkins: Everyone is an atheist about almost every god in human history, some of us just go one god further.

The idea of a God just doesn't make sense logically. What this says to me is, in order for me to believe religion I have to temporarily suspend my my disbelief (aka have faith), and as a rational person (usually) I can't do this.

Side: Who needs god
3 points

In the Egyptian Book of the Dead, there's a character, I think Hera, but I could be wrong, who was born of a virgin, the son of a god, was a carpenter, had apostles, and was crucified. Coincidence?

There were no scribes following Jesus, the oldest written word on the era was not compiled until 500 A.D. That's a long long time considering how hard it is to remember what happened just a few years ago. Of course if you believe that god actually wrote the New Testament himeself through man, then you can't really argue I guess.

And of course the Bible is absolutely rampant with contradictions. All these are easily explained away by the faithful of course.

That's not the problem, or mine at least. I just think it's dumb that an all powerful, all good god would care about religion. I like John Milton's Paradise Lost:

The mind's it's own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven. What matter where if I still be the same? And what I should be, all but less than he, whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least we shall be free. The All Mighty hath not made, in his envy hath not created, nor shall send us hence. Here we may live, and under my reign. To rule is worth ambition though in hell. Better to rule in hell, than serve in Heaven...

Basically I don't like the idea of a god telling me to be good, when I am capable of doing so on my own. And if I choose to do evil, so be it. If all his knowledge and power and goodness were not enough to lead me from that path, than it is mine and not his to follow. If he exists, and is who religion claims him to be, I want nothing to do with him. If he is a figment of our imagination, which I believe him to be, then how incredibly silly we humans look every Sunday!

Side: Religion
1 point

No, I don't believe we look silly at all. If and when I go to church, which is less and less, I do what I do every day of my life. I don't necessarily do god because it's expected of me.....I try and do good because of what it does for me and the other person (s). It's a feel good thing too.

Side: No, God is enough to live by

I was born into a Lutheran and Catholic household but because my father practiced no religion it fell to my mother to start us off on the "right track"...and so we were raised as Lutherans. Catholics believe theirs is the religion closest to God and Martin Luther was once a Catholic as well. When he disagreed with many tenets of the church he wrote and nailed his "95 Theses" on the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany in the year 1517 and the Reformation was born. I have read the theses many times and have always agreed with Luther on the matter of indulgences.

I have attended every denomination of Christian church services along the way and have read much on the major and minor religions. I am lucky, I think, that I have much more than a basic understanding of my religion and am basically happy in it. Although I can respect structure in the matter of attendance I don't happen to believe I need that regimen even though many others do. I have thought from time to time that I might change religions altogether but to what end? Nothing except God's word and the teachings of Jesus Christ could mean more to me than any religion I can think of. I do find them all fascinating but each and every one of them are man made. So, no, God is enough for me but if the day comes that I desire or need the structure of organized religion, I know exactly where to go and know I'll be welcome.

Supporting Evidence: The 95 Theses of Martin Luther (www.thelutheran.org)
Side: No, God is enough to live by