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As of today, I am no longer a christian.
The title says it all.It took alot of courage to make this debate. I am a little ashamed because I have alot of hardcore christians as family members and my ally srom has always been there for me and he is a christian. I have decided to become an agnostic. Maybe one day I might turn back to my religion but for now I am an agnostic.
Animedude, it's your choice if you want to be an agnostic or an atheist for that matter. I will be your friend even if you are no longer a Christian. If you have any questions concerning God. Let me know and I'll be happy to help you. Also lolzors is good when answering questions as well.
I will never become an atheist! and thanks so much for understanding Srom. I might one day return to Christianity but for now I'm having second thoughts.
But the commonly understood definition of atheism is not simply 'not believing in god' but rather 'believing there is no god.' The general usage of the terms 'agnostic' and 'atheist' is primarily to differentiate which side of that 'line' one is on.
Dictionary: Atheists do not believe in a god or gods, whereas agnostic means you believe that the existence of god cannot be known and is not something that can be subjected to rational proof. Dictionary definition, almost all theists are also agnostic because of this. Most atheists (and some theists) take a gnostic perspective regarding the question of a god or gods; that is, it is something that can be known, something that is subject to rational proof.
Common usage: Neither Atheists nor Agnostics believe in a God, but Atheists believe that there is no God. Agnostics do not believe in something that is unproven (There is no proof that God exists); Atheists believe in something that is unproven (God does not exist).
While this does not hold true for everybody that labels himself or herself as atheist or agnostic, it holds true for a significant part of the population- whether they identify as atheist, agnostic, or theist. That's why 'agnostic' is such a popular term; a large number of people feel a need to differentiate themselves from the crowd that actively asserts that there is no god or gods.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
As long as we're playing with the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy...
You are not a 'True Christian-' you have passed judgement on your fellow man due to his struggle and indecision regarding his faith. A 'True Christian' would not do this, but would rather offer (note: offer, not insist upon) support and discussion to help bring him back to the faith.
There is a huge problem with the idea of a person being a 'true christian' or not- every single denomination has its own interpretation of the scriptures, and its own agenda. Just about every denomination will label all other denominations not being true christians. No individual denomination contains a majority of christians, either. From that, we can say that there are no true christians, because the overwhelming majority of christians will say that any given demoniation are not 'true christians.'
Atheism is most commonly understood to indicate an active disbelief (source). While the term atheism can include those who neither believe nor disbelieve (usually referred to as "soft" atheism), some persons prefer to identify as agnostic because of its greater specificity to their particular beliefs.
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, something like Alepriconism would be lack of belief in Lepricons. It does not requires any actual action, you a re just not doing so. It's hardly an activity. It's not a form of faith.
"Disbelief" is a lack of faith in something not having an "antifaith".
I am coming from family of Atheist, nobody bothers to talk about gods or do anything in that manner. I am from Czech Republic witch is country composed pretty much exclusively from Atheists and there are no campaigns against religions, nobody bans any religions. There is zero activity in matter of gods & magic in general. It just died off.
You are breaking atheism into its linguistic parts (i.e. the prefix a- and the noun theist) to arrive at your understanding of the term. This is not necessarily correct, but as I have already demonstrated the term bears a different connotation than its semantic origins would indicate (i.e. the dictionary quite simply does not define atheism as you are attempting to define it).
Even were your definition correct, my point still stands that there are many people who do not define atheism as a lack of belief but rather as an active disbelief. Consequentially, those who simply lack belief may still prefer the term agnostic for its more commonly understood specificity. Therefor, there is a legitimate reason for people to identify with the term agnostic rather than atheist.
I am religious. By saying that are you saying or implying that Christians are worse then non-Christians? If anything Human Development Index, average intelligence of a person in the given nation, GDP, per capita GDP, and other factors would be more important then that. There has been great Pagan civilizations such as the Roman Empire and there have been great Christians empires such as the Holy Roman Empire and more. Are you saying that religious people can not properly run a country?
Evidently, I hit a nerve; that was not my intention. I do not think that Christians are worse than non-Christians, nor do I deny that many powerful governments have been heavily influenced by religion and religious rulers.
Quite simply, being a minority is generally less pleasant than not being a minority. Being an atheist in a predominantly Christian nation has been a negative experience for me - ignorance, misconceptions, stereotypes, and discrimination. It does not happen because the other persons are theists; that just tends to be the way people are with regards to minorities. Generally speaking, my lot would be improved living in a nation whose population largely shares my atheistic outlook.
I'm not going to offer congratulations or condolences or ask why, you've made clear you don't want to go into any of that, you've also said you dont 100% like the term agnostic, why then let yourself be tied down by any label? The only advice I'd offer is be yourself find your own way, it may be that you find your way back to Christianity or not, it doesn't matter to anyone else except yourself in the end of the day it's your spiritual wellbeing you need to look after
You are still young, lots of time to find the truth. Heck I think I was flirting with satanism when I was 16. Have you ever sat down ad just read the new testament beginning to end?
I tried. It is not the most compelling literature in the world.
Subjective
The guy in the book that is supposed to be the good guy is the one killing everyone.
Such as in?
The alleged bad guy is the one who gave humans knowledge.
Introducing death into humanity as well. Causing humanity to become evil and introduced murder, rape, and other sins to the world. That sounds great doesn't it? It turns human hearts "deceitful above all things" according to Jeremiah 17:9. That sounds great again doesn't it? The fall had a extremely negative effect on mankind.
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned
-Romans 5:12
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
It may be, but under every possible subjective criteria I am right. ;)
Such as in?
The flood with Noah. A whole lot of dead people.
Introducing death into humanity as well. Causing humanity to become evil and introduced murder, rape, and other sins to the world. That sounds great doesn't it? It turns human hearts "deceitful above all things" according to Jeremiah 17:9. That sounds great again doesn't it? The fall had a extremely negative effect on mankind.
Right, but all of that had to be according to God's plan, otherwise it would have never been possible.
Your last 2 quotes show how evil the bible thinks people are. Why would I want to believe in a system that tells everyone that are bad no matter what?
I like pretty much every Christian haven't read the whole gospel. I have read enough to be able to comment. Have you read the entire source of everything you have made a comment on?
You said I can't comment on the Bible because I haven't read the whole thing. Are you also guilty of that?
I have read all of the Bible. I have read also most of the apocrypha including the Book of Enoch. No need to get mad about it. If I came off wrong sorry.
Doesn't matter, your statement is false even if I read nothing, which is impossible because you have quoted from it. Your statement was also worthless and hurts your case. Instead of pointing out anything wrong with what I said all you could come up with was that you don't believe I am qualified to have made the statement. A reasonable conclusion is that you believe whatever I said was accurate and that you just don't like it coming from me.
Spaces don't get shown in your post. Adding a bunch of spaces will get reduced to 1 space, but count for the character count. It needs to be in between actual characters though
"arent you afraid to burn in hell for such blasphemy?"
If hell is real and that is my fate than so be it.
"and what makes you doubt the word of god?"
My reasons are my reasons only.
"will you be going to your church and asking for a refund?"
I haven't associated myself with any particular church in years.
"ps...being an agnostic is pussy, you cant just safely straddle the fence like a faggot. make a decision you fucking coward."
If I am unsure which side is correct than I am obviously going to label myself agnostic. That doesn't make me a coward. In fact being agnostic is a lot more logical than being both theist and atheist.
I'm not sure why you feel guilty, I've been openly atheist on this site throughout my entire experience here and I have srom as an ally. Surely sharing the same religion wasn't the only reason that you two are allies!
So said many current atheists. Also one doesnt really become an atheist, one realizes they are one. Like one day i didnt go, "im gonna become an atheist". Instead it was more like i was reading all this stuff, the bible and other texts and science and watched debates and then thought "do i believe in god? hmm..no i dont" therfore realizing i fit the term atheist.
Nice, now that you are on your own, so to speak, don't let anyone drag you into one of their ideologies. Do your own thing and come to your own conclusion... Actually, you don't even have to come to a conclusion.
The thing is I don't want to be an atheist. I've always hated that word. Even now becoming an agnostic I still hate that word. I have nothing against atheist's. I just....Its just whenever I hear that word it reminds me of those asshole atheists I debated on youtube.
You don't want to be an atheist because you obviously don't agree with their viewpoint, as of now. That may eventually change. I'm with you, though. Most of them have an arrogance about them, and they are quick to insult those they disagree with. They've all "studied" religious texts real deeply too... Yeah, right. They studied them with the intention of disproving them... And if they were previously Christian, they likely became atheist because some other atheists pointed out flaws in the Bible, even though their original beliefs may be what was flawed and the atheistic interpretation of those beliefs may be flawed, as well.
What it comes down to, is nobody knows shit and everybody wants everyone to have the same opinion as them. Who is the better guesser? That is pointless. People often have an idea of God which makes them either believe or disbelieve in the entire concept of God. It's silly to even debate it. It's like arguing about where a tornado came from as you're staring at it. Who cares? Just get out of the way! The same could be said about life. We're alive... That should be enough to provoke us to unify and make this life to the best of our ability... But no! Instead we try and convince people that they need to believe in Jesus as the one true son of God, or else they will go to hell... Or in the case of Muslim extremists, they feel the need to kill in the name of God. None of that makes sense. A leader is supposed to serve the people. Really, it is the leader who is the servant and the people who are the leaders, so why would it be any different with God? Jesus addressed this, but it seems that most people ignore it: Matthew 23:11-12 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
"You don't want to be an atheist because you obviously don't agree with their viewpoint, as of now. That may eventually change."
Nope that will never change. Until I find proof or evidence that there is no creator. I will remain agnostic.
"I'm with you, though. Most of them have an arrogance about them, and they are quick to insult those they disagree with."
A lot of them are very egotistical as well. The atheist community is full of ignorant assholes. although I do have a few atheist friends both in real life and online that I respect for not forcing their beliefs on others.
"What it comes down to, is nobody knows shit and everybody wants everyone to have the same opinion as them. Who is the better guesser? That is pointless"
I agree 100%.
"We're alive... That should be enough to provoke us to unify and make this life to the best of our ability... But no! Instead we try and convince people that they need to believe in Jesus as the one true son of God, or else they will go to hell"
If people want to spread the word about their religion I have no qualms about that. However when people verbally or physically attack someone or use aggression and force their beliefs on others is when I get angry and pissed off.
Nope that will never change. Until I find proof or evidence that there is no creator. I will remain agnostic.
All it requires to be an atheist is to lack belief in a god or simply, to not be a theist. The reason I point this out is to call oneself a pure agnostic is contrast to those that call themselves agnostic atheists, is a different means of using terminologies and going by different definitions. You don't anymore possess a belief in god as you are unsure, and you are not a theist, in the same way an asymmetrical object is not symmetrical, you are by definition an atheist. The only reason I bring this up, is not to convince you to call yourself an atheist, as labels are for soup cans anyways. It is to point out that the stance of pure agnosticism and the stance of agnostic atheism fit each other definitively speaking, and only truly differentiate in typicalities.
In other words just like you, we don't believe in god, nor do we believe a god doesn't exist, we just don't see any reason to think a god does exist in the first place. What the groups associate with themselves, and the commonalities within the groups is another story.
It is better to be known by our actions, not our faith. Be a good person and you will be thought of as a good person. Do you still like the idea of God though?
Haha, I got downvoted for being supportive to a former Christian. I didn't even tell him he was right for leaving. This is why you lose people Christians.
I'm really happy you are questioning your religion, it means you put truth above your prior religion. Nothing should ever go above the truth in your perception of reality, not any belief religious or not.
From here on out the world will never look the same, you are on a journey of truth now and it's scary at first I know trust me but I promise in the end you will be okay.
I even to this day dislike the word Atheist and dislike labels in general, truth be told everyone is an Atheist and and agnostic at the same time.
To be an Atheist just means you do not believe in a theistic God, or Gods of man, as for everone one being agnostic well think about it no one on earth truly knows for sure if there is a creator, everyone is agnostic even if they don't believe it themselves.
Ask yourself how America has been doing since the Liberal anti God, anti morals movement has been growing in this nation. If you are honest with yourself, you would see the swollen welfare roles, the broken families, the children with no parents at home, the gangs, the 18 trillion in debt, etc. and would surmise we are heading in the WRONG direction. The Christian faith and the values derived from it is what built America & made it the greatest nation on Earth. There is no question about it. Hard work, pride in oneself, trying to live by the moral values instilled by the majority of Christian parents in this nation are what made us great.
This new age separation of Church and state lie have done nothing but promote the self love culture we see every day. Are you yet one more person who actually thinks man can have moral values without faith in God? I have a bridge to sell you. Men can't even agree on the most basic of moral values & with our anything goes media pushing the self love anti God movement, our nation is dead.
Don't let the world's lies deceive you please. You will see the truth in the end but I would hate that you ruined your life coming to that conclusion.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.
Most of these are present in all major religions.
Why is that?
IMHO the reason is that they are rules man created in order to live peacefully in groups. These rules have become collectively labeled Morals. Morals have been adopted by religions in order to bolster adherence.
While You are 100% correct that our nation was founded on Christian morals, you may be wrong in saying this:
"Are you yet one more person who actually thinks man can have moral values without faith in God?"
When I said "man" I was doing so in the sense of MANKIND"! Of course a man can have personal morals without a faith in God. Mankind as a whole can not because no man thinks alike. Do you want Government forcing their moral ideals on you when you do not agree with their morals? One example being Government forcing a private Christian owned business to cater things that go against their faith. That is an example of a Government's sense of morals being forced on us all. Government should not be telling parents it is wrong to spank their children, etc. etc. Maybe you missed it, Government is the most corrupt bunch of hypocrites alive. Who wants them talking to us about moral values? Obviously Government can enforce laws such as with criminal activity. I'm speaking to moral values.
I repeat mankind can not agree on whose morals to draft into our nation's conscience, so when Liberal Democrats fixates on separating any mention of God or morals from our public lives, you have the amoral nation I speak of. You are watching as one by one our nation's core moral values are being silenced.
Remember 40 years ago when living together without marriage was considered immoral? Remember when teen pregnancy was considered shameful? Today many teens flaunt it as being cool. Remember when one night stands were considered immoral and it was considered reprehensible when the father deserted his child? Remember when divorce for no good reason was considered immoral? I could go on and on but if you have an honest bone in your body, you will admit that when our nation's Christian heritage is censored one bit at a time, our nation's culture gets worse & worse with more & more broken families. There is no longer that little voice in our head, speaking to our conscience. Nothing urging Americans to be a better responsible people who care for others more than their own personal irresponsible desires.
