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There's NO excuse in the USA to be begging for money IMO. There are jobs to be had even if not the most prestigious, and also social programs. I get SO sick of hearing about this crap with all the entitlements available. If people are living on the streets, it is due to their mental illnesses which cause them to choose that way of life. And if children are going to bed hungry in America it's because mommy or daddy is using their welfare money to buy drugs or other things rather than taking personal responsibility for their lives & those of their children.
I was sitting in my car the other day at a McDonalds parking lot and this "homeless" (I have to put it in quotations because half of them are full of shit) dude sets up shop about ten feet away from me. He's just sitting there with his sign... watching me eat my food. It's like "go away man! I worked for this food... If you want a burger then go get a job!"... and he was fat! That's probably from sitting on his ass all day eating free handouts.
I know what you mean!! There's a guy in our town who sets up shop near a freeway on-ramp with the same "Please help, car broke down & need money for motel for family". Can you imagine being SO unlucky to always break down at the very same spot and your mystery family (or car!) is nowhere in sight!! LMAO!! I guess he gets just enough suckers who don't live in the area to make a good amount of money. What's really disgusting is I've seen adults have their kids hold signs saying they're homeless because mommy & daddy are out of work. That really angers me to use children like that, ugh!!
I've seen one dude who stands on the side of the road all day and begs and then goes and hops in his nice expensive looking pickup truck that he has hidden behind some bushes and drives off when he's finished.
The only homeless people I feel a little bit of sympathy for, are the ones eating out of dumpsters and not spending their days begging... but they should still be looking for a job.
Yeah, isn't it ironic that the people who obviously are truly homeless are the ones least likely to approach people for money? But as you said, even in those cases there's no reason to have to live that way. And yes, I actually remember seeing a report on TV that showed how lucrative pretending to be homeless can be. They make a lot of money!! Now that I think of it, all the hours I waste online could be put to much better use investing in a cardboard sign and opening a Swiss bank account for just a few hours work, or more correctly, no work, LOL!
I'm thinking about carrying around my own cardboard sign, for when I see people begging. It'll say something like "Get a job!" or just something simple like "No". Now that I think about it... I should make a bunch them, so that I can communicate with them only through cardboard signs.
Here's a great cardboard sign I think I'll flash at the next guy looking for a handout! It'll be like Deliverance only instead of banjos we'll have dueling cardboard, LOL
You try and find a job with no place of residence, phone number, email address, education, or transportation in clothes you've worn for months straight.
Including these factors You try and find a job with no place of residence, phone number, email address, education, or transportation in clothes you've worn for months straight.
There are a million things they can do for money other than beg.
Windshield washing, recycle cans and bottles, donate blood (if healthy), donate plasma, manure clean-up (it's gross, but people will pay someone to do that). There are a ton of odd-jobs that homeless people can do, they just have to ask around.
If they go to their local public library, they can go on Craigslist and see an entire list of odd jobs in their area.
Windshield washing yeah, but when there are so many homeless people in one area....
recyling cans and bottles yeah, but their are only so many...
most are not healthy enough to donate blood...
When I stayed in Portland there was whole sections of the city with the streets lined with many many homeless people. Those jobs may be good enough to help a small amount of the homeless get money, but the majority ends up having to beg.
And about the library, I don't think they will have the strength to walk back and forth everyday trying to find a job and it's against the city policy to sleep on the streets in certain areas. They would be walking miles without even having proper nourishment and this is without even including what the weather is like at the current time.
Windshield washing yeah, but when there are so many homeless people in one area....
Well, if there are a bunch of homeless people living in the same area, it would be kind of dumb if they all decided to wash windshields.
recyling cans and bottles yeah, but their are only so many...
There are only so many per day. People throw away bottles and cans everyday.
most are not healthy enough to donate blood...
Right. This would only apply to the healthy ones.
When I stayed in Portland there was whole sections of the city with the streets lined with many many homeless people. Those jobs may be good enough to help a small amount of the homeless get money, but the majority ends up having to beg.
Why just a small amount? I only named five ways they could make some cash. There are way more odd jobs out there.
And about the library, I don't think they will have the strength to walk back and forth everyday trying to find a job and it's against the city policy to sleep on the streets in certain areas. They would be walking miles without even having proper nourishment and this is without even including what the weather is like at the current time.
You don't know if they'd be walking miles. Maybe some of them might, but once they get there, they can write down multiple numbers so that they don't have to keep making trips back and forth.
Why just a small amount? I only named five ways they could make some cash. There are way more odd jobs out there
a small amount was about 100 people.
You don't know if they'd be walking miles. Maybe some of them might, but once they get there, they can write down multiple numbers so that they don't have to keep making trips back and forth
I was taking into consideration the actual distance of the nearest library and the places they could sleep.
So I do know. That city was huuuuge. And while I was there, I was searching for jobs to using the library computers. I would use my gps to search for the libraries. There were none near the areas where the homeless were aloud to sleep.
and how would they call the people? use a pay phone? with what money?
So I do know. That city was huuuuge. And while I was there, I was searching for jobs to using the library computers. I would use my gps to search for the libraries. There were none near the areas where the homeless were aloud to sleep.
I didn't know we were using your city as an example. In that case, they would have to come up with an odd job on their own and if they still want to use the internet, then save up for a bus ticket.
and how would they call the people? use a pay phone? with what money?
Quarters aren't too difficult to come by. If they had a clear purpose (ex. use payphone) then people probably wouldn't mind giving them a few quarters.
They're completely different in my mind. Sitting on a street corner begging is just lazy. Asking for a few quarters so that they can get a job and earn some money isn't, especially if they're making it clear that they just want them so that they can use a phone.
The thing is, those people who spend all day on the street begging can be just one of those people who just needs quarters to use a phone.
Most people don't even stop to ask what the begger needs the money for.
The sad thing about it is, when I was in the city, i heard from multiple people (random chatty people), "if someone ask you for any money just ignore them", it is a common trend there.
Have you ever seen a beggar stop after receiving a few quarters? No, he/she keeps begging.
The sad thing about it is, when I was in the city, i heard from multiple people (random chatty people), "if someone ask you for any money just ignore them", it is a common trend there.
That's because most homeless people have a reputation for either being fake or blowing their money on alcohol. I'd give them food before I'd give them money.
So just because they only need a few quaters, it doesn't make them beggars?
If a business man asked you for a few quarters so he could use the pay phone, would you consider him a beggar? No, he's an asker (I may have made that word up lol).
What if they need to make several phone calls? Are they not beggars for begging for more quarters?
I think there is a difference between begging and asking.
Beg- Sit up with the front paws raised expectantly in the hope of a reward... oops! That only applies to dogs.
Ask- To request.
Typically, when I think of someone begging... they are pleading for something.
Example of a typical beggar sign or phrase: "Homeless and hungry. Please spare some money. Thank you and God bless". They're trying to add that emotional appeal to anyone who looks at them. Where as asking is more like: "Hey, do you have any spare change that I can use for the pay phone?".
The debate is about asking not begging necessarily. To me this refers to all sorts of situations, a friend asking another friend to lend them twenty bucks, a business man asking for a few quarters, to the homeless begging for money. Asking for money means asking for money.
I assume nothing, the debate title talks about asking for money, he highlights begging and is talking especially about homeless people and what not, but I will address the debate accordingly to be all encompassing of asking for money in any situation, if he wanted it to only be about the homeless he should have made his debate clearer. Besides I think there is a point that it shouldn't be shameful to ask for help, if you were in the same situation you might want some help yourself no?
Well, either way... my arguments were focused on the homeless aspect of it.
If I was homeless, then I'd be trying my hardest to no longer be homeless. That means finding a way to make money quicker and more effectively. Sitting on the streets begging all day is incredibly lazy... and there is no guarantee that anyone will actually give them money. Think about what they could have accomplished in that day, if they hadn't spent it sitting on a curb begging.
What if there was a homeless man who spent all day doing whatever he can and just wants to get some food to eat that night? I used to be homeless for a short period of time and though I never spent all day begging for money, hell I didn't really beg for money at all (unless you count that shelter that had the homeless go out for donations, which I found out later was actually corrupt and a portion of the money was being pocketed by the people on top running it) I can relate with the homeless's situation a tiny bit, its not as easy as you may think it is. Another thing is to put effort into getting out of that situation is very difficult task if you have been starving for days on end.
I can't imagine it being so difficult that they would have to sit on a street corner and beg all day.
I can see that happening being through my struggles.
Is there an excuse for them to be starving? They can go to soup kitchens and homeless shelters.
Idk about soup kitchens but in California, you have to wait 3 months before any shelter can take you in, unless the shelter isn't really a shelter like the one I was at for a couple days. What if they are nowhere near a soup kitchen or can't find one, a lot of these situations I can't really imagine but I could imagine less about that before my prior situation. Truth is you have no idea what its like until you been there.
Personally, I'm more willing to give a homeless person food before I'd give them money.
I actually agree with this and if I happen to have food and I see someone begging for money I'd rather give them food than money because I know they need that more than anything else other than water.
I can see that happening being through my struggles.
You just said that you never had to beg, didn't you?
I actually agree with this and if I happen to have food and I see someone begging for money I'd rather give them food than money because I know they need that more than anything else other than water.
I've given homeless people food, but a lot of the time I witness them rejecting it. I've seen more fake homeless people then I've seen real homeless people. That's why people are so weary of them.
You just said that you never had to beg, didn't you?
No but it is relatively easier to imagine being closer to that situation now than prior.
I've given homeless people food, but a lot of the time I witness them rejecting it. I've seen more fake homeless people then I've seen real homeless people. That's why people are so weary of them.
That's an interesting observation, I've heard of fake homeless people, I haven't heard much about their being more fake homeless people than real homeless people.
That's an interesting observation, I've heard of fake homeless people, I haven't heard much about their being more fake homeless people than real homeless people.
Statistically, there may not be... but personally, I've seen more phoney homeless people. I heard about one guy who made around $100,000 a year by begging.
There's NO excuse in the USA to be begging for money IMO.
Yes, in your opinion. So you never think it's okay to get mail in rebates or tax breaks either? The principal is the same.
There are jobs to be had even if not the most prestigious,
Of which jobs the majority providing just enough income to make it possible to work to live to work to live....
and also social programs
Same principal as asking for money, really.
I get SO sick of hearing about this crap with all the entitlements available.
See a pattern here?
If people are living on the streets, it is due to their mental illnesses which cause them to choose that way of life.
First off, you classify all homeless people as mentally ill, which is a great way to make sure you put them beneath you! And didn't you just say that "There's NO excuse in the USA to be begging for money"? And now you're saying that they can't help it because they're mentally ill? So it's not their fault, but it is at the same time...............
And if children are going to bed hungry in America it's because mommy or daddy is using their welfare money to buy drugs
You've never been poor, have you? The last thing on your mind is drugs; its feeding your kids, and not being harassed. Sure, there are drug users whom become homeless because of their addiction, but they do not represent the homeless; no one does.
rather than taking personal responsibility for their lives & those of their children.
You're going to tell me that all it takes to get a job is a little bit of elbow grease and the endearing american spirit, aren't you? Oh so the homeless can just WISH up an education, clean clothes, a phone, place of residence, and a mode of transportation from their patriotic assholes? I'll be sure to keep that in mind the next time I intend to ever give a fuck about someone down and out.
OMG, there are SO many flaws in your response I barely know where to begin... The most amusing thing you wrote is trying to compare receiving a rebate or tax break to begging, WTF?! LMAO!! Those monies received, unlike begging, are a value back for something you paid towards. And yes, even if you must work a job that only provides you enough money to work to live, that is still more productive than sitting on your @$$ for the same outcome living on welfare or begging. Social programs were originally meant to be a temporary help, not a generational way of life.
As for your very misguided conclusion that I've never been poor, you couldn't be MORE wrong, oh naive one. I'm not going to go into my personal life history but I can assure you I know MUCH better than you what it is to be truly poor and raised by irresponsible parents & suffering for their lack of meeting our needs. And I can also assure you that it is because of that very thing that I was motivated to not live like that when I could become more in control of my circumstances. And I did do that and it was through hard work, not hand outs that I now have everything and more that I could ever dream of attaining. So please spare your know-nothing lectures for someone who didn't live the nightmare I did and pull themselves out of it on their own.
This is the perfect example of ignorance in today's society. What if it was a waitress who was raped, and had to drop out of high school to take care of her baby because she lived in an abusive family? Is she lazy because she's trying to preserve the life of an extremely dependent being? And even though that was an extreme example, there are many cases where people are forced to beg for money because the job they have now barely gets them by. To judge someone only because they make less money than others is why so many people who need assistance are denied it. Not all people who live in poverty use drugs, by alcohol, or participate in other negative activities.
More ignorance. Are you familiar with any of the statistics regarding adoption?
It varies by year, but only 10-50% of children put up for adoption end up adopted. Most years the number is towards the low end of that. The remainder end up shuffled through various foster homes. That is a hard life for a child, and they are orders of magnitude more likely to end up a career criminal than children who are adopted or raised by their birth parents.
Adoption is not the panacea that pro-lifers make it out to be.
Except it does matter. The core of the debate is whether asking for money is shameful or not.
Shame is not binary. There are degrees of shame. Your suggestion is a far more shameful course of action than simply asking for money- as such, that is not a solution at all within the scope of this debate.
Furthermore, the total cost of putting a kid through the system like that is significantly more than the handouts a young mother would need to get on her feet. Even if you set shame aside, the societal financial burden of keeping the baby is less than putting the baby up for adoption.
He and others are obviously unaware of the meaning of "shame". Should they feel ashamed for asking for help? If not for the few helpful (and the gullible), this world would be even more cold hearted than it is now
You just chose one element of my statement to refer to. And that was just a rough example anyway, so how challenging the other aspects? You can't blame people who come home from the military for having to live on the streets. That's the fault of an ill-equipped country. The fact is, not everyone is as fortunate as others
So you're saying they should be ashamed to ask for help? Should they just starve to death or freeze instead of asking a couple of people for spare change?
There is no way you could tell if I did or didn't, your concept of what constitutes working is clearly different than my own.
Therefore you did not make any money
People who WORK even only earn a minute percentage of what they "make;" the majority of their makings going to the higher ups whom are paid for facilitating, which in and of itself isn't work.
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Further, working and begging are synonymous to the capitalist; a voluntary exchange occurs and no party is not consenting. I don't know one part of that that isn't ideal capitalism.
There is no way you could tell if I did or didn't, your concept of what constitutes working is clearly different than my own.
If you ask for money with out doing anything in return, then you've done no work for it.
Which was my point.
People who WORK even only earn a minute percentage of what they "make;" the majority of their makings going to the higher ups whom are paid for facilitating, which in and of itself isn't work.
If any effort is put forth, then it is work. Asking for money takes no effort.
Further, working and begging are synonymous to the capitalist; a voluntary exchange occurs and no party is not consenting. I don't know one part of that that isn't ideal capitalism.
If you ask for money with out doing anything in return, then you've done no work for it.
Which was my point.
Your point hinges on the concept that money not earned by working is somehow shameful, when the shame is only perceived by you, not the persons giving or receiving money. In shaming, you impose expectations on people you don't know who's world view is completely different than your own. If it affects you none, and no one is cheated or forced into the transaction, when do you permit yourself to pass judgement?
Your point hinges on the concept that money not earned by working is somehow shameful, when the shame is only perceived by you, not the persons giving or receiving money.
Exactly. It is a matter of opinion.
I can shame a person if I think it goes with the situation.
I can shame a person if I think it goes with the situation.
You can do whatever you want, but that's not the point here, it's whether or not we should shame beggars; and I've given you my reason as to why we shouldn't. Your argument, being that money should be earned, has not been explained. Why must money be earned? Would you not pick up a five dollar bill you find on the ground?
Giving is a good thing. From a religious point of view, we are often told that giving is the pure love of Christ, as is serving. There is nothing shameful about asking for money, so long as you are actively looking for ways to get yourself out of the situation that you are in that is having you ask for money.
It does not have to be considered a shameful behavior since beggars are threatening their faces enough. They know that asking for money makes many people frown, but they have no choice but to do it in order to survive. Opening a purse or not totally depends on our mind, so asking for money itself does not have to be regarded shameful.
It depends on the person. My mom had three kids to raise, held down a full-time job...yes she was on welfare a few times, but never stayed on it. My stepfather has always hated me and wanted me out as soon as i came back from basic training. Long story short i'm 21 my own place that i got before i met my husband, and yes i've needed foodstamps. I've never been lazy, never will be. It's real easy to talk when you haven't had to worry about your next meal. I've worked since i was 14, so to those of you that lack empathy shut your frickin mouth.
Well for whats it worth you have my respect you have absolutely nothing to explain to anyone , and I find it somewhat cowardly for people to brand this shameful....
In the modern western world there is no reason for people to be homeless jobless and forced to beg for money but society has let these people down, they shouldn't feel shame they are the forgotten, the ignored. The people who should feel shame are the ones that do nothing to help (be it giving money, food, assistance or whatever) your the problem in this society.
Walk a mile in someone's shoes, live a week in their life before condemning or judging.