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Debate Info

53
49
Lack of Belief Belief in the Lack of
Debate Score:102
Arguments:77
Total Votes:111
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 Lack of Belief (31)
 
 Belief in the Lack of (38)

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Atheism: The Lack of Belief in a God, or the Belief in the Lack of a God

Lack of Belief

Side Score: 53
VS.

Belief in the Lack of

Side Score: 49
3 points

Both, I guess. But at the bare minimum, you just have to not be convinced that any gods exist to be considered an atheist.

If you aren't convinced any gods exist, then you can't really say you believe any gods exist. Therefore, you do not believe any gods exist.

Likewise, if you are convinced that no gods exist, you also do not believe any gods exist.

Side: Lack of Belief
3 points

To call atheism a belief is akin to calling not collecting stamps a hobby.

Side: Lack of Belief
1 point

1. We don't have a name for the hobby of not collecting stamps.

2. Webster:-ism. noun suffix. : the act, practice, or process of doing something.

doctrine : theory : religion

Side: Belief in the Lack of
Akulakhan(2985) Disputed
3 points

1) ...because not doing some specific thing is not in itself an action.

2) A, as a prefix, is the absence of... theism is the belief in a deity or deities. Atheism is then...

drum roll please

>>The absence, (A) of a belief in a deity or deities, (theism)<<<

Side: Lack of Belief
zephyr20x6(2387) Disputed
1 point

1. We don't have a name for the hobby of not collecting stamps.

Well if 75% to 90% of the world population collected stamps or did anything else, we probably would have a term for non-stamp collectors out of convenience...

"2. Webster:-ism. noun suffix. : the act, practice, or process of doing something.

doctrine : theory : religion"

Yeah, the process of remaining non-believing... :P

Side: Lack of Belief
2 points

I'd say it can be both, but by default it is a lack of belief.

We are all born atheists. That is a fact. Before we have any knowledge or even the capacity for knowledge, we know not of God, thus we do not choose to disbelieve, we simply have no way of believing, we lack belief.

Side: Lack of Belief
2 points

Both of the categories fit on this side, whereas only one fits on the other.

If someone believes God does not exist, then they lack the belief as well.

That makes this the more complete definition, the only one that covers all atheists, whereas the other side speaks only of the strong/gnostic atheists instead.

Side: Lack of Belief
2 points

Technically both are admissible as forms of atheism seeing as the only requirement to be an atheist is that the person does not hold a belief in god. Both lacking belief in a god and actively believing that there is no god satisfy this requirement but i vote for this option because it most accurately describes the VAST majority of atheists. Very, very rarely will you encounter a person who will claim that there is no god because most of us understand that that claim is just as absurd as claiming that there is one as it cant be proven or supported.

Side: Lack of Belief
1 point

Rocks, lacking the ability to believe anything, do not believe in God. Do rocks qualify as Atheist?

Side: Belief in the Lack of
zephyr20x6(2387) Disputed
2 points

-ist refers to a person, and even if you could say rocks are technically atheist... so? how does that at all invalidate one coming from a place of non-believing?

Side: Lack of Belief
2 points

I would argue no because of the fact that they are not able to believe anything at all as they are not conscious beings. Attributing any labels like atheist to a rock is just pointless even if they technically fit the definition.

Side: Belief in the Lack of
1 point

Both sides of the argument can be supported through a general statement such as: the lack of belief in a god or the belief in the lack of a god is the same thing. However, when going into depth on this topic, the view of the lack of belief is preciser and a more viable option. By definition, "Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion" (atheism.org). Therefore, atheists have no belief, disproving the second argument. On the first glance, yes, the 2 options looked similar, but it became clear to me that atheism is the lack of belief because of the definition of an atheist.

Side: Lack of Belief
0 points

Atheism

"1

archaic : ungodliness, wickedness

2

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity

b : the doctrine that there is no deity"

-http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism

": a feeling that you do not or cannot believe or accept that something is true or real"

"Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american english/atheism

Theism

": the belief that God exists or that many gods exist"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism

"Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures. Compare with deism."

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american english/theism

prefix: A-

"a-(^)6

1.

variant of an-1.before a consonant, meaning “not,” “without”:

amoral; atonal; achromatic."

Atheism is simply not holding a belief in god, it can include those that possess a belief that god doesn't exist, because obviously that would leave them void of a belief in an existing god as well. To differentiate between the two, you have agnostic atheism (I do not believe in a god) and gnostic atheism (I believe a god does not exist). by default atheism is a lack of belief but can be a belief in the opposite direction as well.

Side: Lack of Belief
1 point

Agnostic covers the lack of belief and is a separate word from Atheism, which covers the belief in lack. But you're right, dictionaries are sloppy these days. Especially when they have two contradictory definitions for the same word.

Side: Belief in the Lack of
zephyr20x6(2387) Disputed
2 points

Agnosticism has to do with knowledge where atheism concerns belief, two entirely different things. The questions "do you believe in a god?" is not properly answered by "I don't know" at most that implies you do not believe, and thus would make you an atheist.

Well then you have multiple dictionaries all contradicting each other, allowing to muddy the water of semantics.

Side: Lack of Belief
2 points

I am not sure I see how these options are different. Wouldn't a belief in a lack of God just mean you explain how the world works without using God? I believe that the world/universe can exist without God, so I believe in the lack of God. And, lacking a belief in God would have to lead to the same conclusion.

Side: Belief in the Lack of
J-Roc77(70) Clarified
2 points

P = Belief Q= god

The Lack of Belief in a God, or the Belief in the Lack of a God

- P in a Q or P in a -Q

No belief in a god or belief in there is no god.

When people say the first one is a belief it is misleading. Hows this;

P in a Q. P in a -Q.

Belief in a god. Belief in no god exists.

This is similar but seems to not represent the average atheist.

Side: Lack of Belief
2 points

I don't agree that a belief in lack of God is a belief that there is no God. I think that a belief in the lack of a God is believing that the universe can exist without God and not that it definitely does exist without God. I agree with your assessment. Can you explain what is I am missing?

Side: Belief in the Lack of
Nebeling(1117) Disputed
1 point

Wouldn't a belief in a lack of God just mean you explain how the world works without using God?

I don't think that follows by definition. A belief in a lack of a God is simply the conscious absence of any God in one's world view. Such a belief obviously necessitates that the world can exist without a God. That, however, is not the same as having an explanation for how the world works or how it started. I.e. I may be able to explain that the world can exist without a God without having an explanation as to why the world exists in the first place. All I have to argue is that the world isn't necesarilly created by a God, which can be done in different ways. One strategy is to give a non-theistic explanation, another is to argue for the logical impossibility of the existence of a God, a third is to argue that thestic accounts of cosmology are inherently unnecesarry and insufficient. Either way, I don't need to have an alternative explanation in order to belief in the lack of a God.

Side: Lack of Belief
1 point

Ok. I didn't consider that case. My statement was for the people who try to explain how the world/universe was created. Your point is valid. My overall point is that you don't have to believe that a god is impossible in order to believe that the world can be created without God. We agree on that, right?

Side: Belief in the Lack of
2 points

Belief in the Lack of a God would be Atheism. Lack of Belief in a God would be Agnostic.

Side: Belief in the Lack of
1 point

A-the-ism - no-god-nameoftheoryorpractice-suffix.

The theory or practice that there is no god.

Defined in my OED as, "disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of god."

Quotes Bacon as writing in 1605, "A little or superficial knowledge of philosophy may incline the mind of man to atheism."

Atheism is an active construction of the mind: it is to say with positivity that there is no god. It is a belief in the nonexistence of a deity just as ateakettleism is the belief in the lack of a giant, orbiting tea kettle.

To be ignorant of spiritual concepts is not to be an atheist per se, but rather to be, shall we say, atheistically ignorant.

Side: Belief in the Lack of
Jace(5222) Disputed
3 points

What are you even on about? You provide the OED definition to lend your argument a semblance of legitimacy, then substitute your own in its place and attempt to deduce some nonsensical argument from it. And ultimately all you have accomplished is some pointless semantic maneuver.

Side: Lack of Belief

Atheism is the belief in a lack of God. This holds because you must have knowledge of the subject of God in order to be an Atheist. A person who has never encountered the concept of God would lack the belief, but would not actually be an Atheist. If you have never heard of Santa, you don't have a positive belief that there is no such thing as Santa.

"A" cannot equal "non-A"

Side: Belief in the Lack of
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

If hardcore Atheists are correct and there really is no God, then all Theists have presented is a fake being. This means that no one has ever heard of the proper description of God. Therefore, all Atheists are in the group of people who have never heard of God including those that have never heard a Theist version of God.

Side: Lack of Belief
1 point

That's pretty clever. Even so, one who believes inaccurately about a thing isn't the same as one who believes the thing doesn't exist. Both are different than one who lacks all knowledge of the thing.

An Agnostic can lack belief in God and not qualify as an Atheist. But in the end, A can't equal non-A.

Side: Belief in the Lack of

I've always interpreted the prefix 'a' like in 'a'theism to mean anti, or against. It seems to me we already have a term for the lack of belief: agnosticism. To be atheist (i.e. anti-theist, against theism) means you have an active belief that god does not exist. If you simply lack a belief on the matter or you are just unsure, I'd call you an agnostic.

On a personal aside, i don't see how anyone could be an atheist on any ground other than a moral rejection of god/religion as a whole (i.e. the Christian god endorses slavery, I'm morally opposed to slavery, therefore I reject god and am an atheist). Most theists claim their god is immaterial, spaceless, and timeless... an invisible man in the sky, if you will. I don't see how you could prove such an entity does not exist anymore that you could prove it does, so it seems to me rather foolish to assert the theist position of 'yes, god exists' as much as it is to claim 'no, he doesnt;' We don't really know.

Side: Belief in the Lack of
Jace(5222) Clarified
1 point

As a nihilist who rejects morality, I still find atheism an explicable and defensible perspective. My rationale, in short, being thus:

There is a growing, interdisciplinary body of research that indicates religiosity (and, by extension, God) is a consequence of human genetic and cultural evolution. The term "God" itself is a human semantic construction, and has particular human significance. In the event that there is some generative force or supernatural power in the universe, I would contend that it diverges so much in its actuality from genetically compelled human conceptualizations of God that to call it God would be so inaccurate as to render the application of the term meaningless. Thus, no God.

Side: Lack of Belief

Lack of belief is more agnostic, now atheism. We just don't believe in God.

Side: Belief in the Lack of
1 point

A person who identifies as an atheist generally believes there is no God. However when arguing with theists, it is sufficient and easier to defend the weaker position: that it is unreasonable to believe in God. Also nobody ever argues that there is certainly no such thing as God, because certainty is such a high standard of proof.

Side: Belief in the Lack of

The lack of belief is still a belief. .

Side: Belief in the Lack of
J-Roc77(70) Disputed
2 points

P = Belief Q= god

The Lack of Belief in a God, or the Belief in the Lack of a God

- P in a Q or P in a -Q

No belief in a god or belief in there is no god.

When people say the first one is a belief it is misleading. Hows this;

P in a Q. P in a -Q.

Belief in a god. Belief in no god exists.

This is similar but seems to not represent the average atheist.

The lack of belief is still a belief

What I am saying is that P =/= -P

A belief is affirmation on something and that something can have different values (yes\no). "No belief" (-P) is a terrible term as the term is now about lack of affirmation. Unconvinced seems to fit for defining -P.

Side: Lack of Belief
1 point

Atheists believe that there is no God. That is a fact. .

Side: Belief in the Lack of
MuckaMcCaw(1970) Disputed
2 points

Not true.

Is going hungry the same as having a meal?

Is "barefoot" a form of shoe?

What you are saying is comparable to these statements as you are saying despite the proposed absence of a specific belief, that belief is still somehow there.

Side: Lack of Belief
2 points

I disagree. Opinions are beliefs. Both theism and atheism is a belief.

Side: Belief in the Lack of