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Atheism is self Refuting Atheism is logical
Debate Score:17
Arguments:42
Total Votes:21
Ended:02/14/16
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 Atheism is self Refuting (16)
 
 Atheism is logical (1)

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Challenge Debate: Atheism is self Refuting

Delvis(221)

Atheism is self Refuting

Side Score: 16
Winning Side!
VS.
IAmSparticus(1516)

Atheism is logical

Side Score: 1
1 point

Atheism is self refuting. Because the atheist has to reach the conclusion that there is no God through reason, while at the same time undermining any epistemological validity to the process of reasoning itself.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Aside from the fact that non-gnostic Atheism doesn't require the positive claim of "No God" (as opposed to the negative stance of simply not believing in the positive existence of God) the way gnostic-Atheism does, what makes you think that Atheism, be it gnostic or "agnostic" in nature, undermines "any epistemological validity to the process of reasoning itself"?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

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Don't you need Logic in order to reason correctly ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

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So is logic Absolute ?

Uh oh !

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Ahhh, well hello there Dr. Smalling.

Seeing as how there are multiple forms of logic, no, "logic" as an overarching term is definitely no absolute.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

Might as well concede like a man, or woman, or whatever weird thing you are

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Or you could, you know, debate. You haven't even followed through with your first and sole argument, so why don't you calm down a bit for now.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

Modal logic, propositional logic, etc, are just convenient labels for different circumstances under which arguments can be made. But logic itself can only be one, moron. And it must be absolute.

Can you name one situation in which the law of noncontradiction, or the law of excluded middle, or the law of identity are subjective ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Not really, and I had not intended to refer to such laws themselves as subjective.

So, what's the next step in your argument?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
Delvis(221) Clarified
1 point

Either they are subjective and absolute, or they are not. So which is it ? If you are afraid to commit, then concede.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

Look, weasel, I said objective and absolute. Do not try to hurry me. All you are showing is that this is leading you to an uncomfortable position. So they are objective and absolute. Agree ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Yes, I have already agreed.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
Delvis(221) Clarified
0 points

Then how can you reconcile the existence of an independent absolute while being an atheist ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

Simple.

Do you believe in the existence of an immaterial world or plane material for which there can be no empirical evidence ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

I believe there exists things for which there currently can be no evidence. Whether or not they exist on a "immaterial world or plane" seems to be a matter of philosophy.

I'd say no. They exist as concepts, but that doesn't require an additional plane of existence.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
Delvis(221) Clarified
1 point

""""I'd say no. They exist as concepts, but that doesn't require an additional plane of existence."""////

Oh !! So please, can you tell us the particular coordinate in space where they are located ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

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You just fell into the the reductionist trap. Enjoy

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
2 points

And how have I done that?

And out of curiosity, why aren't you providing any actual positive arguments in favor of your position? Instead you seem to be thinking that you can catch me in some sort of "trap" and that would somehow prove your point, but it wouldn't. At best, it would somehow undermine a stance I haven't even really taken yet.

So can you stop with the games and start actually arguing your position?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

""""They do not exist in a materiel sense, they exist as concepts."""////

That is not what I asked. I asked where ?

Electrical neural impulses are just electrical neural impulses. Where are the concepts located. ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

You have asked this question three times.

I gave you the same answer both other times. If you keep asking the question, I will keep giving you the same answer.

Concepts do not occupy physical space as they are not physical entities.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

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Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

Uhh, If the laws of logic exist in your mind, then how they they be Absolute and Objective ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Why would something being immaterial call into question its ability to be absolute or objective?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
Delvis(221) Clarified
1 point

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Straw Man. Who said it did ?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

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Be wise. Concede

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Perhaps, but I'll wait until you've actually provided an argument in favor of your stance.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

If you are unprepared and did not even know the epistemology involved in atheism, that is not my problem. I am not going to tutor you. Anyone who reads this debate will see immediately how you got stuck in that simple question and how you tried to avoid it like a weasel. They will also see that I gave you ample time to answer. So this one's over.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
0 points

As you have notice, I am a skilled professional. So start answering questions or don't waste my time

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
0 points

Second time. You said : """They do not exist in a materiel sense, they exist as concepts."""////

That is not what I asked. I asked where ?

Electrical neural impulses are just electrical neural impulses. Where are the concepts located. ?

You will not ignore that question

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
1 point

I don't think you know what ignoring means.

I have answered this question multiple times: Thoughts and concepts do not exist in a location. They are not physical. The closest to physicality they have are existing within our minds, which would be the electrical neural impulses.

You clearly want a different answer, so just say where you think they are.

Side: Atheism is logical
-1 points

""""And tell me, which epistemological positions do you think Atheism requires.""""////

I just did. Read above. This is getting boring sooner than I thought.

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
2 points

If you are referring to " Because the atheist has to reach the conclusion that there is no God through reason, while at the same time undermining any epistemological validity to the process of reasoning itself." then the question you never answered remains: Why do you think it must be the case that Atheists undermine the validity of the process of reasoning?

Side: Atheism is self Refuting
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