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God exists, just read the Bible which explains everything in detail.
God made heaven and earth in 6 days and then went for ''big ZZzzzs'' on the seventh, the Sabbath.
He created Adam and placed him in the Garden of Eden.
He then stole one of his ribs from which he made Eve.
Eve listened to a talking snake who told her to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree.
After eating the forbidden fruit she became ashamed of her tits and vagina.
Randy Adam jumped on Eve and made hot sweaty passionate love among the daisies and put her in the pudding club, beating large drum, knocked her up and all that jazz.
Nine months later along came Cain and then Abel.
After this murder and mayhem followed with 100s of 1000s of people all having it off in the bushes and populating the earth with millions of sinners and atheists.
This pretty well brings us up to the present moment.
I believe in God, but your argument for it is very very weak. I think you've been sucked into the church's view on the Bible which is that the Bible is completely flawless and historically accurate. You won't ever convert an atheist with this argument and it shouldn't.
Science tells us a whole ton about what the universe is and how it acts. A lot of what science tells us actually contradicts the Bible. The Bible is not perfect, and that's a really good thing, believe me. God did NOT write the Bible. People did. And people that lived thousands of years ago didn't understand the universe the same way we do today. People back then used to think that the small points of light in the night sky was heaven breaking through into our reality. Obviously, this is way wrong. They're just stars in the sky. duh. But they got it wrong!
The important thing though is that God can still exist. Science and faith don't have to work against each other. Instead of telling other people that God exists because the Bible tells us he does and the universe was made in 6 days, try proving Jesus to others.
We have an astounding amount of evidence for the existence of Jesus and that he actually was born of a virgin, performed miracles, was crucified, and rose from the dead. I can't share all that proof with you because I would need to write a 50 page essay to get all the info in there. Look up a man named Jim Warner Wallace and watch his videos. He was a cold-case detective that converted to Christianity because he researched the gospels as a skeptic and found everything about Jesus to be true.
All I ask is that you, and whoever else is reading this, take some time and do your research. Don't just sit there and doubt everything in your mind. Get out there and do some real research!!!
This guy, Jim Warner Wallace, has tons of videos, I have watched some but couldn't find anything with hard proof about Jesus. Can you advise a specific video?
Well the Bible was written by humans and was, in my opinion, anyway, created by humans, and as such, is a figment of our imagination. We have no proof that God exists, or that he doesn't exist; on the contrary, we have proof of evolution, The Big Bang; we may not have a large amount of proof, but we have more proff than you ever will about God existing. In my opinion, most people use religion as a crutch to blame their failures and downs in life on. But let me ask you this; if everything is God's will, why would he give a four-year-old cancer? This child definitely doesn't deserve it, and in no way needs to pay for his or her sins. I think religion is a great thing; it can be very useful to a great many people, but the paths we have taken religion down are unjust and, in some cases, an atrocity. I don't believe God exists, but I don't hate anyone that does.
I'm sure if you read, and interpret my post as I intended it to be you will recognize the irony and sarcasm of its tone.
The Bible was as you say written by men, well meaning men who were the scholars of their day and tried desperately to explain the overwhelming mysteries of the visible universe and our place in it with very limited scientific knowledge.
Now that we are enlightened by the flow of scientific discoveries it is easy for smart Alecs ( like me) to scoff at what now seems like their over simplistic, child like explanations for the cosmos and the reason for our existence.
The problem lies in the fact that there are still 100s of millions of ''SHEEPEOPLE'' who still believe in the various man made religions of world and try to impose the teachings of their barbaric scriptures on to the simple minded followers.
Prove it's not. See how that works? That's my dermotism for the day. When you have no answers just spew out a random "prove it" while not proving your own claim.
My believe and answer on that matter is, it is amazing what at least 13.8 billion years can do in terms of creation and evolution of the universe.
First the pure chaos and after billions of years, very slowly, a semi organized chaos, just thinking about how our cosmic neighborhood was at the time when our planet was born, it was a lot more hectic than nowadays since gravity has done its job for so long. It then organizes itself.
Same with the evolution of life on our planet. I believe chaos progressively org anise itself and I believe biology adapts itself extremely well to its environment as well as to the changes in its environment. Biology adapts the needs of the creature to his actual environment and with million of years the genes pass from one another to develop these needs.
life on earth is merely a fart in the time line of the history of the universe as we know it. It cannot be that much of an important event in the history of the universe
And us, human beings are merely the attempt of a fart in the time line of life on earth... but if you bring down life to our time line scale... it has so many million years to evolve and develop in amazing diversity and complexity!!
How about say this is the simplest of words...or rather a ques...Who do u think created you?
Now maybe you might wanna give your answers with a bunch of theories..like you evolved frpm the fossils(i read that somewhere)....which i should tell you will be the real nonsense...coz u gotta realize there is again...a creator above all...
I might be vague here..but i hope you get my point
Assuming there will be a creator: Who created that creator? Then who created the creator of the creator? And so on... Even if you say that there must be an uncaused cause, then can nature be the uncaused cause by itself? Or, if the universe is a loop, then who put that loop in motion in the first place?
It seems like the argument is an endless rabbit hole.
It's not about who I think created me; the work is what. We have more proof of evolution and the Big Bang, but, as Somebody says, we simply don't know.
Only a Fool say God does not exist.... Even Science say God Exist... Look at Space every thing is so in Order.... Everything is So structure....even on this planet.... See False prophet's lie so much that people ask Questions which is the Truth.... Just Because A Preacher or a teacher with a Suit on Say Something so stupid Does Not mean God Is a liar.... Let man Be a Liar and God be truth.... Just Because Everyone say they believe in God....Doesn't Mean Anything.... Just Because Someone say they Dont Believe in God... Doesn't mean anything.... At the End of rhe Day a Lie Is A Lie and the Truth is the Truth....
when you stop being such a jack ass, which I doubt you ever will, maybe I will read your responses. I'm not even going to read you if you comment in my debate, I'll just ban you and ignore you.
You think you have the right to exist outside of Hell and are exonerated in death, I think you better smoke another joint trying to obscure reality. Maybe something will happen to get you to see you need to be saved from Hell. Go smoke a fat joint, pothead, I'm not interested in your response.
Atheism is a very personal thing.. It really has NOTHING to do with what you believe and EVERYTHING to do with what I believe.. I don't believe in god. But, I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong if you do.
What most believers fail to realise is that the majority of atheists were once believers like them and the reason most believers believe is because of how powerful the whole indoctrination process is .
Religion for its followers relies mainly on indoctrinating children from infancy to adulthood until the message is firmly hammered home .
If people were not introduced to the idea of religion till reaching maturity and given a copy of the bible or some other sacred book and asked to read it and evaluate its content most would dismiss it as complete and utter nonsense .
Believers mostly believe as their parents believe and seldom realise that they are victims of mass brainwashing and never had any other choice as their particular religion was forced upon them .
Atheism is the rational choice and most atheists choose it after making an assessment of of the evidence for both sides
"What most believers fail to realise is that the majority of atheists were once believers like them and the reason most believers believe is because of how powerful the whole indoctrination process is "
Because you had a bible and went to church means you're a believer?
Don't you hear suicide bombers or armed robbers doing that?
The devil goes to church.
You were even once a budhist you said.....
It only shows you be in religions for fashion.
You had no business with God.
If people were not introduced to the idea of religion till reaching maturity and given a copy of the bible or some other sacred book and asked to read it and evaluate its content most would dismiss it as complete and utter nonsense .
There are so many testimonies of people from India or Asia who had never seen the bible before but abondoned their idols to follow christ.~(EVEN Nagpal says he came to know about christianity just a year ago)
Even muslims…… terrorists(one my pastor met in a plane, coverted about 4yrs ago, imagine how many people would have died, and how do you convince a terrorist especially with something he's been taught to hate)
So you lie.
Believers mostly believe as their parents believe and seldom realise that they are victims of mass brainwashing and never had any other choice as their particular religion was forced upon them .
you were brainwashing your grand children with an unproven theory.
how different is it.
Still different.
My Religion instills(not force) high level of morality into children and reduces social vices
while your theory tells children indirectly that nothing bounds them, from ape to man, zero conviction, everything there is physical, dispose off and nothing, with this, what has one got lose if he commits a crime?
After all he is going to do die anyway oneday , what is the difference from now and the future.
Atheism is the rational choice and most atheists choose it after making an assessment of of the evidence for both sides
You know nothing about following christ.....christianity. You think it's about reading the bible? Lol. Thousands of people read the bible but are not believers like a muslim friend of mine who likes comparing both books.
You think it's about going to church?
lol. whenever my church organises a sports program, the muslims come and play, they come to church for their trophies?and even stay around for about two weeks more.
A drunkard can just enter a church,
Unrepented criminals...etc.
The question is why do you go to church. And how does one seek God? he said dilligently, how did you ?
You do some mediocre of God worshipping and yourself a christian.
Not everyone after being tested qualifies to enter the army.
Again like the prize cabbage you truly are you spew a pile of nonsense that makes little sense except to you ; when you decide to ask rational questions instead of firing accusations I may deem to educate you ... again .
You couldn't educate a toddler. It and a baby monkey would be more educational than you are. Hell, a fried dog terd out in the street would be more educational than you are.
If we aren't fit, it is our choice to be unfit. In my opinion, no one is unfit; many people have commited crimes because of their religion (ISIS) and we as atheists simply choose not to believe. If we are unfit, then we are unfit of our own right, not by anyone else's standards
It is fine by me to be unfit.。。freedom and rights. But inaccurate and widely speculative accusations shouldn't be entertained neither, by we. Stay in your lane as we do same.
You as a person may stay in your lane, but many religious people do not. They force their beliefs on other people and tell people that they will go to hell if they don't believe in God. In my personal experience, this has happened multiple times. Everywhere you see signs of the influence of religion; business owners refusing to provide healthcare for women, refusing to hire people because of their beliefs or sexual inclination. I have the right to state these things, because I know them to be true. I don't think religion is a bad thing; indeed, the opposite. What I have a problem with is people who think to force their beliefs on other people. I personally am an atheist because there is no evidence that God exists (come on, the Bible doesn't count as solid evidence)
With all due respect, I find you quite judgmental towards what Dermot said.
Nowhere he claimed that reading the bible or going to church means that you are a believer.
He just stated that once he was (as well as others) but who are you to claim that he wasn't?
Maybe he was not as much of a believer as you are, but maybe he was looking for answers... aren't we all? If we had all the answers we would not be here debating.
And Buddhism is as respectable as any other believe no?
I believe, like you, that some people with a certain faith can convert to another but what Dermot meant was that building faith based on the bible is not an easy task. Mostly if you do have the faith. It is full of nonsense and contradictions (mostly the old testament). on the other hand building a faith not based on the bible is something I can imagine. I do not have faith, neither all answers but I know many believers who do not belong to any religion.
Religion, mostly for the hard-core religious does not exactly prone freedom of thinking, and that applies for all religions, but rather for brain washing indeed. Maybe Dermot was a bit harsh in the way he put it, I'll give you that. Not every believer is a hard-core religious after all.
You also say that he doesn't know anything about following the Christ while he claims he was a believer once. Do not assume.
Why don't you explain us in your own terms what you think is to be a Christ follower or let's say, what makes someone a Christ follower?
I think that would make the debate interesting since we are here for that.
Hi Argolas , thank you , Jeffrey is judgemental and he deems anyone who disagrees with his narrow minded world view a ' satanist '
Be wary of this one he wished a painful death on my daughter , he believes women enjoy being raped , and he asked me to commit suicide ; remarkably he calls himself a follower of Jesus who said one or two things about judging others
I hate it when someone else is trying to explain to me what dermot meant.
You don't know him more than i do.
When he says something, i know where he's coming from and heading at(goal).
I will reply about being a proper christian.
First is faith.
"Believing is seeing".
Absteinance from fleshy lusts, thoughts and pevertion.
Sacrifice , delligence, patience and trust.
Personal quest and convenant.
When your life is like
Moses stuck between The red sea and egyptians. A state of confusion, broken spirited, no way out, wondering why you even follow God if this where he intended to place you, commit it to God and challenge him(if he fails your problem is bigger than him) not denounce him and surrender back to eqypt to spare your life.
Read about Horatio G.Spafford(you might call him a lunatic)
Ps. wigglesworth
The basic understanding is, here is not heaven. This sinful world belongs to the devil(Adversary). And the moment you decide to follow christ you become a of foe of the world. You're going to face so many trials thrown at you by the Ancient tactical one. He has studied the human race generations upon generations. He can bring it to you in health, psychologically, lust for peversion, lust for perishsble materials, troubles,etc. that you may stumble.
It isn't easy. But if you know what you really want and your love for jesus is genuine, you'll know how to steadfast. But jesus doesn't fold his arms. Just like story of JOB, he becomes proud when you disappoint the devil, he knows his death wasn't in vain and he blesses you more. Also the more your blessings, the more difficult your test is. Just use the name that is above all names and the Amour of God to defend yourself.
You don't know me at all , what you hate is being questioned about your belief as you constantly forget it's a debate site ; you make yourself look very stupid but calling atheists Satan followers incidentally that's the very same logic used by Muslims who call non Muslims infidels
Just to Clarify what Dermot says with "Believers mostly believe as their parents believe and seldom realize that they are victims of mass brainwashing and never had any other choice as their particular religion was forced upon them"
It is certainly not the case with hard-core believers but it is the case with believers who vaguely believe in God without actually to the church and practicing their religion.
And it is true that many believers fall in this category.
However, hard-core believers have a real and genuine faith, studied their religion and practice is regularly.
For my personal input, I make a real difference between hard-core believers and the ones who just believe there is a God out there.
And it the same about atheists.
There is a difference between an atheist and a non believer.
At least in my personal opinion.
Someone who claims to be an atheist should be able to justify why, should have studied or at least researched and explore the question of religion, and should build his or her opinion based on his study.
That makes the difference with a none believer who is simply not interested in religion.
Hi Argolas, I think the vast majority of believers are introduced to the concept of a god from infancy the belief is reinforced throughout childhood and families , friends and their schools all play a part in the process of ' gentle 'indoctrination
Most atheists I know myself included were once believers , in my case devout, and have examined done extensive research and study before reaching their present state of atheism often with rejection and societal finger wagging for daring to take their own path
I see your point Dermot and you are on the overall right.
But the hard core believers really study it.
I never was a believer but I was very curious about religion at a young age, asking question and later on studied it, and read the bible. Although I am not closed to the idea of believing, I have never found any one with the right arguments to change my mind.
I think being atheist is also searching for answers, as much as believers, but the mindset of an atheist is preventing him from accessing to faith.
Yes I know the bible back to front and the Quran as an atheist I do not need answers some things we just don't know so what ?
My mindset wants nothing to do with faith as faith is the opposite to an open mind .....
From the Atheists guide on that term faith ,
Faith is not a substitute for evidence or meaningful and objective data. Faith is devout ignorance but religious people don’t call it that. Faith is a filthy word exuding a fake appearance of purity and virtue while fronting some of the most ugly ideas this world has ever seen such as sexism and slavery. Faith closes people’s hearts when it should be opening them. Faith makes people proud of things they should be ashamed of and faith makes people ashamed of things they should be proud of. We can see throughout the world and throughout history that the people who have claimed faith especially in the barbaric Islamic countries live under oppression and violence. The thought process for people who claim faith is that if you take the god completely at his word you can be just like him, a cruel, coldblooded, monster and feel good about it. In other countries they use faith to make blasphemy laws and use censorship in order to keep from hearing words and seeing pictures that would take peoples minds out of the Stone Age and into the 21st Century. If your argument boils down to just have faith then you have taken all the real reasons to actually accept a claim because you can have faith in anything such as leprechauns, fairies, unicorns, magical men and mythical story books. People do not have faith in brakes working in my car, the sun rising or me waking up. These are things that have a high probability of happening because there are past experiences of these things and there is knowledge of them functioning correctly. Also people have a working model of how and why these things happen.
Apparently not enough research. I see you post ignorant claims and make bs statements like a mantra on here. Maybe you just need more comprehension skills, in other words, you aren't smart enough to grasp deeper concepts. So basically, there really is not much you can do to counter your lack of intellect.
That bullshit is deep too indoctrinated idiots like you and regarding lack of intellect read the above and applaud the genius that made you swallow this nonsense
This coming from someone that was in disbelief of the Jonah story... yet the exact same story has happened multiple times in real life in our lifetime.
The commandments weren't given from a voice in a whirlwind. No wonder you're confused. You don't even know the Bible. Bwahahhahahahhahahhahaa!
You thought the commandments were given from a whirlwind. You didn't know Jesus was a Jew. You don't even know the stuff in the Bible that Christians learn when they are in preschool. Maybe you should stick to topics you know something about... like masterbation and porn.
Atheism isn't your own path. Millions followed it before you. Quit acting like you created some new magical trail. You're just a lemming like the rest of them.
Now pull out your thinking cap and explain to us those raised in atheist households who convert through intellect and knowledge. It's a rhetorical question by default because you have no clue. You just spew nonsense without citations, links, or anything else.
Now pull out your thinking cap and explain to us those raised in Christian households who come to Atheism through intellect and knowledge. It's a rhetorical question by default because you have no clue .
You just spew nonesense without citations , links , or anything else .
Logic is an alien concept to you 🤔 beaten by your own stupidity .... again
I'm obviously superior to you in intellect, so I probably wouldn't go shouting that from the rooftops if I were you. You are so stupid that you thought the Adam and Eve story was literal and didn't even know Jesus was a Jew. Once you know that someone is that shallow in intellect, you just laugh at them and point.
Uh huh. That's why you've banned me from debates that you know I would dismantle you in. You don't even know the difference between macro and micro evolution as is demonstrated in your posts. And then you gave a giant copy and paste that you didn't cite or source like a mindless idiot. And finally, the copy and paste wasn't even logical because you don't even understand that "evolution" is divided into different types. Your lumper attempt showed you had no idea what the fuck you were even talking about. You're not only a bad debater, but you are a clueless dipshit.
Your were banned from one for your usual ranting and crying because someone had a different view .
You mean the Evolution debate you had nothing to say on ?
When you use the terms macro and micro and say I don't know the difference well I actually do , it's your young earth creationist friend who is with the looney fringe and gets his answers from the hilarious answers from genesis site .
So again a hissy fit from the legless wonder because he knows nothing about evolution as well , regards mindless idiots you're the legless stump who thinks Jesus resurrected 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 👋👋👋zombie lover 👋👋👋👋👋
So now it is your turn dermsnatch. Explain to us Fred Hoyle, the Atheist who coined the term "the big bang" becoming a theist. And then explain the others just like him who did the same.
What a stupid cunt you are stumpy so I have to explain why two atheists became theist and then what stumpy ?
You truly are a thick cunt and you never see it coming explain to us why these theists became atheists and then explain the others just like these ........
Wiki ....
Film director whose father was a parson; stated he lost his faith at age 8, but did not fully come to terms with that until making Winter Light
Napoleon Bonaparte[2] France Emperor of the French from 1804 to 1815; was raised Catholic[3]
Bob Brown[4] Australia Australian senator and former Parliamentary Leader of the Australian Greens
Fidel Castro Cuba Cuban communist revolutionary and politician; Prime Minister of Cuba (1959-1976), and President (1976-2008); baptized into the Roman Catholic Church at the age of eight; later became an atheist[5]
Nikolay Chernyshevsky[6] Russia Revolutionary democrat, materialist philosopher, critic, and socialist
Pat Condell United Kingdom Writer, political commentator, comedian and atheist internet personality[7]
Richard Dawkins United Kingdom British ethologist, evolutionary biologist and author; was brought up as an Anglican until ceasing to believe in a deity in his teens, concluding that the theory of evolution was a better explanation for life's complexity
Jerry DeWitt United States Former pastor of two evangelical churches; publicly converted to atheism in 2011 after twenty-five years of Christian ministry[8]
Jonathan Edwards[9] United Kingdom Former British triple jumper; former Olympic, Commonwealth, European and World champion; formerly a devout Christian, and even presented episodes of the BBC Christian worship programme Songs of Praise
Bob Hawke[10] Australia Former Australian politician who served as the 23rd Prime Minister of Australia from 1983 to 1991
Abraham Kovoor[11] India Indian professor and rationalist, noted for Abraham Kovoor's challenge
Vladimir Lenin[12] Russia Russian revolutionary, then ruler of the USSR; was baptized into Orthodox Christianity but later renounced his belief in God
Karl Marx Germany Philosopher; baptised into the Lutheran Church
Joseph McCabe[13] United Kingdom Ordained as "Father Antony", but left the Catholic priesthood and abandoned theism; then wrote works like The Totalitarian Church of Rome and stated that "Atheism will in this century be the common attitude of civilized people"
Benito Mussolini[14] Italy Italian politician, journalist and leader of the National Fascist Party, ruling the country as Prime Minister from 1922 to his ousting in 1943
Friedrich Nietzsche[15] Germany German philosopher, poet, cultural critic and classical philologist
Millosh Gjergj Nikolla Albania Albanian poet and writer; trained to be an Orthodox priest, but became an atheist[16]
Nathan Phelps[17] Canada American Canadian author and LGBT rights activist; son of Fred Phelps
Brad Pitt[18] United States Actor; raised as Southern Baptist
Joseph Stalin Russia Russian revolutionary, then ruler of the USSR; studied to be an Orthodox priest but became an agnostic after reading Karl Marx's books.[19]
Julia Sweeney United States American actress, comedian and author[20][21]
Charles Templeton Canada Co-founder of Youth for Christ; rejected Christianity for agnosticism after a struggle with doubts[22]
Josip Broz Tito Croatia Leader of the Yugoslav Partisans, Europe's most effective anti-Nazi resistance movement; a Yugoslav revolutionary and statesman, serving in various roles from 1945 until his death in 1980; formerly Roman Catholic;,[23] later became an atheist[24][25]
John Abraham India Bollywood actor born to a Zoroastrian mother and a Marthomite Syrian Christian father; left Christianity and became an agnostic atheist[26][27][28]
There's that logic getting you again you truly are a thick cunt aren't you stumpy ?
Most of this post is spot on, but I would argue that atheism isn't a choice at all. I could no more choose to believe in any god any more than I could choose to believe in the tooth fairy...it seems rather like any other outrageous tale. It astounds me that mature adults can take it seriously.
It would be good for any theist to define a God positively and properly. There is not really a case to answer if Theism is so poorly defined.
The god concept is so vague and malleable that as soon as you engage a theist in debate, they engage in special pleading to rescue their god and play hide a seek by equivocating with words like cause, universe, beginnings, morality, nature or whatever argument is invoked.
I absolutely agree with you Surgeon. Mostly since most atheists, when they debate, base themselves on the God described and defined in the bible (old testament). This is normally the reference. Now, no problem to debate on the believe in another God as long as he is properly defined in specific terms.
Terms of the definition should include if God is:
- Omniscient
- Omnipotent
- Master and creator of all things
With at least these 3 elements, debating the existence of God or not can take place with healthy grounds.
"Jesus cannot be proven by history, neither miracles, neither unicorns."
look i don't mean disrespect but anyone who says this exhibits profound illiteracy beyond words.
Even the almighty atheist dermot knows there is historical proof for jesus's existence but he only disagrees jesus did miracles but was an ordinary man. I have tried giving him proof of jesus's miracles by ancient historical writers but he always claims the link is inactive...hmmm
Yes it clearly goes against your believes indeed so it is certainly not pro Christianity.
But thing is, none believers or people who put things in questions are not illiterate. They actually search and contest what people massively accept as right. It isn't because a lot of people believe something, that it means that they are right. Otherwise we would still consider our planet as flat.
Besides, more and more the "so called" proofs of existence of Jesus historically and archaeologically are challenged.
So if there are challenged or even challengeable, we cannot call them hard proofs.
No historians from the time of Jesus was present to account for him. So far I have no personal convictions of his existence. I challenge it too until I get hard proofs. If it happens, great! Until then, maybe he existed, maybe not...
"No historians from the time of Jesus was present to account for him."
Shylessly, you said this without secretly attempting to google it first.
Word from your fellow;
" Dermot(2277) 1 point
Most respected historians agree that a wandering preacher called Jesus lived I never disputed that , most respected historians also agree that the Jesus they are talking about was a mere man and no miracle worker as claimed by believers .
Why didn't you post your link in this thread you mouth ..... hmmmmm
You seem so behind in the proof jesus existed and also did miracles.
All questions you ask now have been answered overly and its annoying/painful to do this over and over again.
Some of the historians even lived in the time of herod(ex. josephus etc.) before jesus birth even till he died(he lived short 32yrs).
As you can see some atheists believe jesus existed in the first place but only deny his miracles which i have also given proof but they refuse to accept. It would be better to consult them instead, you believe it when they say it
Start by asking for their names, Read their bios to judge their credibility, then read what they wrote on jesus.
And their writings are not promoted or edited by christians. Christianity has no influemce on that...it belongs to historians they make the discoveries
Most respected historians agree that a wandering preacher called Jesus lived I never disputed that , most respected historians also agree that the Jesus they are talking about was a mere man and no miracle worker as claimed by believers .
Why didn't you post your link in this thread you mouth ..... hmmmmm
Your buddy Bront already mentioned Celsus and I corrected him on his numerous errors obviously you and him make it up as you go along as like most things you now know nothing about history .
Celsus says a lot of things about Jesus and you seem to think because someone says something it must be true whys that ?
Early explorers talked of dragons and flying beasts on their travels in the Orient were they true also ? If not why not ?
So you also agree Mary committed adultery and Joseph threw her out the house ?
Jesus according to Celsus was a servant who acquired miraculous powers on which the Egyptians pride themselves , so these 'powers ' the early Egyptians also had and they used them also to attain power over the masses , there were workers of supposed miracles in Egypt so Jesus learned of these methods from the Egyptians who the earliest records show preforming the skills of the magician as in the wall painting depicting various feats like the cups and balls and the producing of live birds .
So according to Celsus Jesus proclaimed himself a god after acquiring the skills of the Egyptian magicians and his earliest followers according to Celsus were not of the inteligent class and ignorant as well , something's never change
Interesting to note Celsus
. BOOK 1
Chap. 28
...[Celsus] accuses [Jesus] of having "invented his birth from a virgin," and upbraids Him with being "born in a certain Jewish village, of a poor woman of the country, who gained her subsistence by spinning, and who was turned out of doors by her husband, a carpenter by trade, because she was convicted of adultery; that after being driven away by her husband, and wandering about for a time, she disgracefully gave birth to Jesus, an illegitimate child, who having hired himself out as a servant in Egypt on account of his poverty, and having there acquired some miraculous powers, on which the Egyptians greatly pride themselves, returned to his own country, highly elated on account of them, and by means of these proclaimed himself a God."...
BOOK 3
Chap. 44
After these points Celsus quotes some objections against the doctrine of Jesus, made by a very few individuals who are considered Christians, not of the more intelligent, as he supposes, but of the more ignorant class, and asserts that "the following are the rules laid down by them. Let no one come to us who has been instructed, or who is wise or prudent (for such qualifications are deemed evil by us); but if there be any ignorant, or unintelligent, or uninstructed, or foolish persons, let them come with confidence. By which words, acknowledging that such individuals are worthy of their God, they manifestly show that they desire and are able to gain over only the silly, and the mean, and the stupid, with women and children."...
"Your buddy Bront already mentioned Celsus and I corrected him on his numerous errors"
No. I have read your conversations.
He murded you.
"Celsus says a lot of things about Jesus and you seem to think because someone says something it must be true whys that ?"
Then why do believe history that says jesus existed in the first place.
Are you by any change saying the words of Celsus are not credible?(you don't know the tag you get for that do you?)
"Early explorers talked of dragons and flying beasts on their travels in the Orient were they true also ? If not why not ?"
In what setting, plot or credible historical records?
Pls ask an intelligent question next time.
"So you also agree Mary committed adultery and Joseph threw her out the house ?"
Celsus hated christianity and said things to project christianity in a bad picture including claiming christ's miracles weren't from God but acquired scorcery skills.
He knew jesus did miracles but as a hater of christianity, the least he could do is to at least say it wasn't from God.
Most jews hate jesus for claiming to be God. Apart from that, they don't deny he did miracles.
He couldn't refute what jesus did but at least he could throw some mud on it to tarnish his image throughout history. Had his opinions been promoted that much, the beautiful image of jesus we know today wouldn't have been to this extent
Embrace your grandfather's words dermot. You all hate christ. And thats what binds you two together as one family.
Wel, you would say that wouldn't you the pair of you's haven't a brain cell between you's ,also what's ' murded '?
Why believe history that says Jesus existed ? Because you stupid fuck as I keep explaining to you's historians believe a man called Jesus lived but not a miracle worker as idiots like you believe .
I never said the words of Celsus were not credible in my last post so why are you asking you thick fuck ?
Do a bit of research on travellers in the Orient you think fuck and regards intelligent questions you have yet to ask one .
So you thick fuck where is your evidence for a miracle working Jesus ?
Celsus said the alleged powers of Jesus were picked up from Egyptian wonder workers , you failed to even read what your source said didn't you ?
My grandfather was a believer and how could I hate a mere man named Jesus who I never met ? , what I dislike are hypocrites like you who claim to be Christian yet ignore everything Jesus said as you spew your hate and dislike for everyone who's different , if a man called Jesus walked the earth again hypocrites like you would crucify him .
"as I keep explaining to you's historians believe a man called Jesus lived"
Same reason i believe Celsus.
"but not a miracle worker as idiots like you believe ."
you choose believe the part of history enjoy as an atheist.
"I never said the words of Celsus were not credible in my last post so why are you asking you thick fuck ?"
Then why do you ask if i believe him just because he said it?
"So you thick fuck where is your evidence for a miracle working Jesus ?"
Apparently you have short term memory. As bad as 1min interval.
I bet you have your name written down to recite every minute.
"Celsus said the alleged powers of Jesus were picked up from Egyptian wonder workers , you failed to even read what your source said didn't you ?"
You need to construct that well.
Eitherway, he agrees jesus possessed mystical powers.
"My grandfather was a believer and how could I hate a mere man named Jesus who I never met ?"
It's clear you needed some extra wit sprinkling on your......to have understood that.
"what I dislike are hypocrites like you who claim to be Christian yet ignore everything Jesus said as you spew your hate and dislike for everyone who's different"
jumping conclusions as if you nailed it....idiot..
I also dislike evil men like you.
"if a man called Jesus walked the earth again hypocrites like you would crucify him ."
Who me? or you who keep cruxifying him everyday on CD though you very well know he existed. You're worse than the devil himself.
Neither could atoms, the space time continuim or the big bang throughout most of history, but alas... they're still real. And Jesus isn't an invisible abstract person. He's a physical person who is a part of history.
God does not exist. There is no consistent proof of his existence and of course can't me disproved (since you can't disprove a negative). By god of course I mean, any religious god or any sort of controlling intelligence. Besides many people thinking of god a different way, they are all equally wrong by assuming it's existence. People who believe in god base this belief on their faith. Faith is the very definition of believing something without evidence, something to be ashamed of. If your argument for god's existence is that there are things you can't explain/don't understand or that the bible says so, please read a logic or science text book. Something is not to be believed because it can't be disproved, because of fear, because somebody told you or because you would like it to be true.
Atheism is refusing to drink the Koolaid. It's saying yes they've read, they've heard, they've gotten the lecture, they've been threatened with hell, and after all of that they simply don't find what you're selling to be convincing enough to get them to drink the Koolaid.
Probably the bigger question is why are you so desperate for them to drink some of your Koolaid?
