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Debate Score:30
Total Votes:36
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 Atheists are Determinist Machines (23)

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Viceregent(413) pic

Atheists are Determinist Machines

Atheists, if atheism is true, then you are nothing but a deterministic machine, which is to say a non-thinking automaton that merely does what the laws of science compel you to do when confronted with environmental stimuli in keeping with your biological makeup.  Philosophical naturalism has its downside.
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3 points

How does the addition of God make it so that we aren't deterministic machines?

To say we would be non-thinking doesn't really make sense. I don't see where you get that from. If we don't have free will it doesn't mean that we are incapable of using our brains, it just means that the way we use our brains is predetermined.

"that merely does what the laws of science compel you to do when confronted with environmental stimuli in keeping with your biological makeup."

That's kind of what thinking is. I do agree with you that this means we don't have free will.

"Philosophical naturalism has its downside."

I don't see a downside to lacking free will. I'm still doing what I want to do aren't I? So what if it's predetermined? It does make things like moral responsibility complicated, I'l give you that, hard to blame someone who can't help their actions, which is why I try not to.

Regardless, if everything you said was perfect, it's not like we get to choose what the truth is. Maybe everything does suck if there is no God (though I think it doesn't), but the fact that something sucks doesn't make it untrue. What I'm saying is, what's your point? Why make this debate?

Also, you title the debate as "Atheists are Determinist Machines," indicating that you believe atheists are determinist machines, and then you say "Atheists, if atheism is true, then you are nothing but a deterministic machine." The combination of these two statements would suggest that you believe atheism to be true.

Also it doesn't make sense to say "atheism is true" because atheism is a lack of belief in any and all deities. To say a lack of belief is true doesn't make sense.

Mint_tea(4587) Clarified
2 points

How does the addition of God make it so that we aren't deterministic machines?

It doesn't. Instead of an Atheist using laws of science to compel them, a Christian uses the laws of God. Six in one half dozen in the other.

Viceregent(413) Disputed
0 points

Right, this dude does not think. He has brain waves that are controlled by nature. He does not think 2+2 =4, but rather nature compels him to hold to this. The guy who holds that 2+2=5 is not wrong. His brain just waves differently. Truth and fiction are meaningless in Atheistland, which is why no rational person is an atheist.

Mack(534) Disputed
1 point

I'm not sure what your argument is. Could you phrase it differently?

When one defines 2, +, =, 4, and 5 as normally defined in maths, then 2+2=4, not 5. Then, the guy who holds that 2+2=5 is just wrong. His brain isn't thinking right. How does God's existence affect this?

His brain waves are controlled by nature, yes, that is called thinking. What do you think your brainwaves are controlled by? Or are they not controlled?

2 points

In other words, atheists do what they do by the will of God.

What do you think omnipotence means?

It means super determinism.

AlofRI(3249) Clarified
2 points

So, my saying that "God" does not exist is being forced on me by the "will of God". My saying Jesus existed, but, not as a "son of God", comes from the "will of God" .... interesting. I am superdetermined to believe that ... by the "will of God".

So, you guys lay off! I am following Gods will, nothing YOU can do about it! By denigrating my words, you are going against Gods will. Behave. ;-)

TzarPepe(792) Clarified
1 point

You can't go against God's will, don't be ridiculous. Whoever is denigrating your words, they are doing it by the will of God.

So is this your excuse?

I tell you, it makes no difference whether you forsake God or come to God. It is by God's will. It is God's will that you experience things the way that you do. It is also clearly God's will that the state of your consciousness changes over time. The you of today is not the same as the you of long past, and it won't be the same you as the you of the future.

I'm throwing around seeds because some of those seeds will land on fertile soil. Those who grow with God will have peace. What is peace? Accepting God's sovereignty over all things and aligning yourself with it. On Earth as it is in Heaven. What does that mean? It means to forsake delusion, and embrace THE TRUTH.

The TRUTH is what sets you free, and embracing the TRUTH will ultimately lead to a happier life.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason why I preach the good news is because I'd like for everyone on this planet to have a good time. It's not about me. I have my peace, and believe me when I say that there are many who would look at me and expect me to be miserable. I tell you, there are those who have it far worse than me, and they have found peace because they love God.

So hey, you could say, "I have peace, I am content! I am even happy!". I don't care about that. I am not your judge. The one who really knows is God, and you may be able to fool others.. You may even be able to fool yourself.. But there is no fooling God.

Keeping it real is the best policy, and what am I saying? All I've been saying the entire time I've been on this website is to KEEP IT REAL.

Look at how much opposition I get just from that! You know what it does? It proves scripture right, because scripture SAYS THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

Just as they called for the crucifixion of Jesus, just as they slayed the prophets.. So the world will revolt against the truth, no matter how clearly stated it is.

What am I saying?

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality!

Watch people foam at the mouth. It is really pitiable. Yet, it fulfills the scripture, "Because they received not the love of the truth, they have been cursed with strong delusion".

It is the love of Christ dwelling in me that compels me to spread The Good News. Salvation is God. The Truth sets you free.

Keep it real. I'm very consistent. It isn't about me. I'm not trying to be a teacher. I'm trying to point to The Good Teacher. I have faith that Truth stands clear apart from error. I must become less so that The Word of God becomes more. It's not about me. It's about God.

So whether or not you find my words convincing, it is the will of God. I am not the one who saves souls. I am not the one who hardens and softens hearts. It is God, and it is even written that some vessels are made for honor, and others for dishonor.

It is always better to forsake idolatry and turn to The One True God. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is the focus of the relationship. How does God speak to us? Through his Word, and it is written, "All things were made by him(The word of God which is God); and without him was not any thing made that was made.". If this is the case, your very experience is your relationship with God, and God speaks to you through life.

How can you deny my God? It's because you don't know my God. If you knew my God, there would be no doubt in your mind that this is the only God even worthy of being called God, for all other gods are subject to death, but The God I believe in is Eternal.

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

No red herrings. They are irrational. Just answer the OP. Thanks.

TzarPepe(792) Disputed
1 point

No, what is irrational is trying to reason with people who have a stated position that THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN TRUTH.

I'm telling you that by your logic, I'm a "determinist machine" even though I believe in God.

Hating atheists doesn't do any good. Show them some charity, they clearly don't know what they are doing. Bashing people and acting superior is never a convincing way to argue.

What do the scriptures say?

Without charity, it matters not if you know everything, can speak every language, and give your body to be burned... The effect you will have is the same as a loud clanging symbol.

Why do I do what I do? Because it is God's will. Why do you do what you do? Because it is God's will.

The one who hardens and softens hearts is God. It does no good to be pretentious about it, because we are where we are because of the grace of God, not our own doing.

1 point

To make a claim that we as humans deterministic, means to denigrate consciousness. To claim that my brainwaves are determined in response to nature is correct if you have absolutely no idea what consiousness is.

New research into quantum affect by human minds reveals a sigma 5 result which is currently in the process of having independent reproduction, but studies since 1957 already reveal this, yet this is the least popular opinion held in scientific authorities. It is been proven that the human mind can, with no limits of distance, can have up to a 2% effect on collapsing the wave function on a boron laser photon stream.

I’m certain the creator of this debate has no idea what I’m talking about, and so it is obvious why his opinions stray to the right side of reality. Read something, understand the words.

Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

Hey, butt much, prove you have a mind. Or be banned from this tread. Man, this tool is delusional.

Rick_Zeta5A(357) Disputed Banned
1 point

You are a retard, ban me please. ...........................

-3 points