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7
9
True Flase
Debate Score:16
Arguments:12
Total Votes:18
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 True (3)
 
 Flase (8)

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Atheists are all literally retarded

How can you deny that there is a God when we live in a world of structure and organization but the fundamental of all of this is just suposedly some ethereal energy balls and waves randomly bumping around in space? Do you think the microscopic energy balls just assembled themselves into complex shapes?
How can a universe of like this be just a random explosion out of nothingness?
If physics as ill thats real how can you explain consciousness, love, the vibrant colors of the rainboe?
And most imoppartly how can you have objective morality and right from wrong without God?

True

Side Score: 7
VS.

Flase

Side Score: 9

Hey look. Nom now has a "Christian" puppet account that he's starting debates with...

Side: True
0 points

Any atheist who says "There is no Supreme and Ultimate Reality(this is what God with a capital "G" actually means)!" is clearly WRONG.

All their arguments against little "g" gods were already made by people who believe in God.

In fact, any atheist who denies The Supreme and Ultimate Reality makes every one of their judgement calls worthless. They've undermined every single argument they can make.

It is best to assume that any atheist who denies The Supreme and Ultimate Reality can only be doing so in ignorance. Only a liar or a fool would deny The Supreme and Ultimate Reality while truly grasping what that means.

If you grasp what The Supreme and Ultimate Reality means, it is impossible to truthfully deny it.

Yet, when I speak of God, this is what I am talking about. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

All atheist arguments are garbage against this God.

Side: True
2 points

It seems even more ridiculous to me that there was some all powerful god or gods 'before' the universe's existence.

Why would a god exist instead of nothing in the first place? You seem to think that because of the order and complexity of the universe there must have been a creator, but how could this creator exist for seemingly no reason? It just pushes the question back a step. If anything, the universe seems unnecessarily complex, as if it wasn't created by a divine being.

Consciousness and love are products of evolution. The colors of the rainbow are due to a combination of physics (refraction of different wavelengths (colors) of light) and evolution (our eyes have evolved to see different colors).

You say: "And most importantly how can you have objective morality and right from wrong without God?"

You don't have to have objective morality. Even so, how does God's opinion on what is right or wrong hold any weight? My parents created me, but just because they tell me what to do it doesn't make it right.

Side: Flase
Mack(534) Clarified
1 point

More on morality, do you believe that God's laws are morally right because he says so or because of some external moral code independent of God? If it is because he said so then I think your morality is arbitrary, if it is because his laws are based on an external moral code then God is not necessary for your morality. In other words, are things right because God commands it or are does he command things because they are right? (Euthyphro dilemma)

Also, to add to the thing about rainbows being pretty; one hypothesis I've heard about why things like that are pretty is that we evolved to be attracted to colorful landscapes so that we would not get bogged down in one place as cavemen/apes. (It was good to move on to different places that might have better pickings)

Side: True
1 point

How can you deny that there is a God when we live in a world of structure and organization

The reason there is structure according to humans, is because humans ascribe meaning to objective realities. We affix mathematics and physics to observable phenomenon. That is us, structuring the world into something we can more easily understand. You're trying to understand the world, the same as me. You can't fathom that these inherent qualities of nature just are. So you need to ascribe meaning to them by imagining that they were specifically designed.

The only difference between you and I is that I don't need to imagine that they were designed, though it's a mildly comforting thought to have, I suppose.

but the fundamental of all of this is just suposedly some ethereal energy balls and waves randomly bumping around in space?

Well, it's a little more than that, but I see your point. You think that scientists are stupid for studying the properties of matter and energy as they appear to us, because we don't ascribe any further meaning to them than what we see at face value. Well, you're welcome to think that, but I would say you've been misled. There's a lot more to it than "ethereal energy balls".

Do you think the microscopic energy balls just assembled themselves into complex shapes?

I think it would be helpful for you to inderstand something about atoms before you attempt to criticize the theories. It seems like you have formed an inaccurate idea about what physics and chemistry entail.

Chemistry naturally produces complex compounds, that's why the Earth is full of them. If you take hydrogen and oxygen and add heat you will eventually get water. Those building blocks -- the fundamental chemical elements -- combine by their nature, due to electromagnetic forces and other phenomena. We, atheists, look at this and say "oh, atoms seem to combine. How do they do this?" while you seem to be asking the question "what gave them the power to do this?"

There is, however, no reason for me to ask that question, because I don't have to believe that anything "gave" those atoms their abilities. I study them, and what I see, I learn. And that's it. I see atoms acting as atoms act.

How can a universe of like this be just a random explosion out of nothingness?

I wouldn't call it "nothingness", more like timelessness, or spacelessness. We know the universe as a very specific combination of the dimensions of space and time. "Before that" (if such an idea can be humoured for the sake of simplicity), there would have been no time. And without time, the very conditions of the universe change drastically, to the point that we can't really comprehend them without understanding some extremely advanced physics that is honestly way above my pay grade.

If physics as ill thats real

Physics is not "all that there is". Physics is a set of formulas and theories for understanding the ways in which matter and energy interact with each other on the most fundamental levels. That's all. It isn't the only thing I think about, and it isn't the only thing that's important to me.

how can you explain consciousness, love, the vibrant colors of the rainboe?

You think that atheists believe in some cold, unfeeling version of the universe, simply because us atheists tend to be scientists, and scientists tend to study, in their work, the particulates of the universe in a very methodical context. But that doesn't make us incapable of feeling, or of marvelling at the beauty of the world.

In fact, I marvel at the beauty of the world quite often. I've loved, I've looked at a rainbow or a sunset and thought "wow", I've felt pain and loss, too.

And most imoppartly how can you have objective morality and right from wrong without God?

Human empathy and compassion. Just because I don't believe in God, doesn't mean that I feel nothing when I see a grown man cry, or a child lose a parent, or a friend lose a lover. I'm not a cold, robot just because I don't believe in God. I want people to be happy the same as you do, I want to wake up to someone warm in the morning the same as you do. I bleed the same as you do.

My morals aren't based on your book, they're based on what I've learned from interacting throughout my life with other human beings. I don't like to get hurt, so I try my best not to hurt other people. I don't like to be gossiped about, so I try not to gossip about other people. I don't like to be lied to by those close to me, so I try not to lie to them.

It's logical and right to be that way.

I choose to be that way. Nobody has to force me, or tell me to do it. I just do it.

Side: Flase
1 point

I am not an atheist but I disagree that all atheists are literally retarded. I also do not fully support your argument for God's existence ( which I do believe in).

I think God exists for two main reasons:

1- An unmoved mover is necessary in any all-encompassing model of existence. So the universe had a beginning, we do not know what existed before that, it wasn't necessarily "Nothing" before the Big Bang. It could have been a different form of reality that gave birth to the current universe. Infinity has no room in the physical world. An infinitely existing universe that has always been there is just impossible scientifically. There MUST have been an Unmoved Mover at some point. Something infinite that is outside and inside the physical world, a living paradox if you will.

2- One word; Consciousness. I believe that whatever Force created our outstanding consciousness that can enable us to question our own existence is definitely of higher consciousness than we are. So it would no longer be accurate to call it just a force, but an infinitely Conscious Unmoved Mover GOD.

Side: Flase
seanB(959) Disputed
1 point

An unmoved mover is necessary in any all-encompassing model of existence. So the universe had a beginning, we do not know what existed before that, it wasn't necessarily "Nothing" before the Big Bang. It could have been a different form of reality that gave birth to the current universe. Infinity has no room in the physical world. An infinitely existing universe that has always been there is just impossible scientifically. There MUST have been an Unmoved Mover at some point

No, you've got this wrong. You're specifying a "point" in time where something "moved" something else, before there was any time or space. That doesn't make any sense. Things don't cause effects in a paradigm in which the very mediums required for cause and effect don't exist. "Before the big bang" is a misnomer.

One word; Consciousness. I believe

Yes, you believe. Thats proof of nothing.

that whatever Force created our outstanding consciousness that can enable us to question our own existence is definitely of higher consciousness than we are

We are the consciousness of the universe we inhabit. That's the trade-off of a neocortex that allows us to thrive almost unfairly so compared to any other species on this planet. We question, and for some of us, that questioning provokes answers that are far too uncomfortable for the brain to handle. It's a scary thought, that we're on this planet amidst a dark and lifeless vacuum. So we make stories up to comfort ourselves at night. But it's just wishful thinking.

We are together on this planet, with a finite life, and that's exactly what makes every single one of those lives pricelessly invaluable. They ought to be cherished and protected.

So it would no longer be accurate to call it just a force, but an infinitely Conscious Unmoved Mover GOD

If you say so.

Side: Flase
Sleman(25) Disputed
1 point

No, you've got this wrong. You're specifying a "point" in time where something "moved" something else, before there was any time or space. That doesn't make any sense.

The concept of the Unmoved Mover is something Aristotle came up with. It isn't something I have gotten right or wrong. So why are you so sure that spacetime did not exist before the big bang? We have no clue about anything before the Big Bang. Maybe it was nothing, no space, no time. But we Do not know!

If we assume that spacetime did not exist before the Big Bang then we are saying there was Nothing. That the Big Bang was the absolute beginning (Most physicists do not think so). Then I am placing the timing of my Unmoved Mover taking His action at time 0.00 or even at time 10^(-43) ( Planck time).

Yes, you believe. Thats proof of nothing.

I didn't claim I have proof that God exists. I started by listing the reasons why I think God exists. Please, argue against my logic, but no need for mockery.

We are the consciousness of the universe we inhabit. That's the trade-off of a neocortex that allows us to thrive almost unfairly so compared to any other species on this planet. We question, and for some of us, that questioning provokes answers that are far too uncomfortable for the brain to handle. It's a scary thought, that we're on this planet amidst a dark and lifeless vacuum. So we make stories up to comfort ourselves at night. But it's just wishful thinking.

We are together on this planet, with a finite life, and that's exactly what makes every single one of those lives pricelessly invaluable. They ought to be cherished and protected.

There are aspects of our Minds that cannot be read, measured, or even detected by any physical means. We are hallucinating a conscious experience all the time and this experience is unique to each person, you can never see how I perceive the color Red for example. This is called Qualia and I think it is the essence of our consciousness; a metaphysical reality thriving within us. All I think is that while I agree that we are the the consciousness of the Universe, this consciousness is even bigger than just us, it constitutes the beginning and eternity itself.

If you say so.

You changed that from " You think you're being smart, but you're not". Thank you, again, there is no need for mockery.

Note It would be stupid to assume any of us here can prove anything about God. I am not coming here with proof. I am coming with my reasons of favoring God's existence and my logic behind it... for the purpose of voicing my opinion and hopefully hearing compelling arguments why I should change my mind.

Side: Flase

"i dont know how it couldve happened that way so thats ridiculous"

but you are okay with a god spontaneously assembling. or always existing just...cuz... and that he magically assembled everything.

Side: Flase

The rainbow is literally explained by the physics of light. White light contains all the colors of the rainbow and can be split into them with a prism...

Side: Flase