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Debate Info

198
187
Nye Ham
Debate Score:385
Arguments:182
Total Votes:465
Ended:02/05/14
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 Nye (112)
 
 Ham (63)

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Bill Nye versus Ken Ham

http://debatelive.org/
The above link you can watch the debate live! Also can be found on youtube on Ham's page. Debate starts at 4pm PST.


Post your thought as the debate progresses or recap areas you felt needed explaing or were wrong!

I see we have possible multiple accounts users just spamming this with butt patting rhetoric. Simply saying you are right in several responsed will get you banned.

 

Nye

Side Score: 198
Winning Side!
VS.

Ham

Side Score: 187
6 points

Nye's arguments: We can test these things against other things we know, and can see today, to assume how things may have been done in the past.

Ham's Argument: The bible says this. You didn't observe it at the time it happened.

My main argument against Ham's argument, if the scientists didn't observe what happened at the time, then how do you support what you believe to be true, if you didn't observe what the bible says at the time?

Ham sounded like a typical religious fool, every time he would say "There's this book" it really irritated me.

The debate started off, and thought to myself "I'm about to learn something from this religious guy" as it went on I noticed that all he could do was drop names, and say how the other side wasn't there when it happened. He still however could not prove what his side was saying. In the end he was stating basically, I believe what I believe is right because i want to, and I don't believe what they say is right because i don't want to...even though we can't prove either side because we were not there.

His argument is ridiculous. If you can't prove the age of the earth using methods to date the rocks, and methods to date the species, then you can't figure out a criminal committed the crime using finger prints unless you were there.

Side: Nye
3 points

Bill Nye, he is too good to debate the likes of a slug like Ken Ham

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
5 points

Most people do not believe in evolution so having this debate is valid.

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
3 points

Most people do, you can't just limit it to America.

Side: Nye
SexyBanana(306) Disputed
2 points

In first world countries they do, along with the earth being a sphere and not flat.

Side: Nye
L0gical(12) Disputed
1 point

most of educated people and pretty much whole Europe, Japan, China does...

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
4 points

Bill Nye, he is too good to debate the likes of a slug like Ken Ham

Ad hominem

Side: Ham
L0gical(12) Disputed
2 points

Bill Nye, he is too good to debate the likes of a slug like Ken Ham

Ad hominem

moron?

Side: Nye
3 points

Bill Nye is a scientists, Ken Ham is a creationist. Only people who are also ignorant of science will think Ken wins.

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
4 points

Bill Nye is a scientists, Ken Ham is a creationist. Only people who are also ignorant of science will think Ken wins.

Ad hominem Fallacy

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

Actually, that wasn't an ad hom. If you don't know science, you will side with the guy who is not a scientist. The word ignorant is not completely meant as an insult.

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
2 points

Bill Nye is a scientists, Ken Ham is a creationist. Only people who are also ignorant of science will think Ken wins.

Why so?

Side: Ham
L0gical(12) Disputed
1 point

because you have scientist on one side and a weirdo with book of bronze age myths on the other side.

Side: Nye

Ok, a couple of notes on this. One person in this debate said evolution should not be debated against popular mythology. He's right. Evolution is a SCIENTIFIC theory. That means it can be tested or observed, in some cases replicated, and there is a large body of proof, which is replicable and falsifiable. Creationism is a religious belief. It is indicated by holy books, but any proof for it cannot be found via other sources, cannot be replicated, and so forth. Since the debate is specifying origins in terms of a SCIENTIFIC era, then the only acceptable model for origins would be the SCIENTIFIC one.

On that note, Ken Ham seemed quite anxious to indicate he's not the only one who believes this. That kind of statement tells me he's looking for validation for his thought process. Also, his statements about "kinds" of animals rather than individual species indicates that there was further evolution after the flood. In doing this, he validates that evolution can happen at all, and by doing so, leaves the door open for scientific theories to be viable.

Do we know 100% sure what happened? No. But with the technology, knowledge, and understanding that we have at this point in time, I think evolution is definitely the more provable and more reasonable theory. However, I will probably post more tomorrow when I have more time to think.

Side: Nye
Anthonyhook(178) Disputed
6 points

There is proof that the bible is correct scientifically. If man would have simply read the bible they would have learned many scientific facts hundreds of years before science discovered it.

Here are just a few examples. The only reason I bring this up is you mentioned "holy books".

These can all be found at http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

there are over 100 mentioned on this website.

1.

The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), affected only by gravity. While other sources declared the earth sat on the back of an elephant or turtle, or was held up by Atlas, the Bible alone states what we now know to be true – “He hangs the earth on nothing.”

Visit:

Modern Science In An Ancient (ICR)

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2.

Creation is made of particles, indiscernible to our eyes (Hebrews 11:3). Not until the 19th century was it discovered that all visible matter consists of invisible elements.

Visit:

All About Atoms (Jefferson Lab)

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3.

The Bible specifies the perfect dimensions for a stable water vessel (Genesis 6:15). Ship builders today are well aware that the ideal dimension for ship stability is a length six times that of the width. Keep in mind, God told Noah the ideal dimensions for the ark 4,500 years ago.

Visit:

The Ark’s perfect dimensions (Answers In Genesis)

Safety investigation of Noah’s Ark in a seaway (Answers In Genesis)

Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic (Answers In Genesis)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4.

When dealing with disease, clothes and body should be washed under running water (Leviticus 15:13). For centuries people naively washed in standing water. Today we recognize the need to wash away germs with fresh water.

Visit:

-Why do I need to wash my hands?

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5.

Sanitation industry birthed (Deuteronomy 23:12-13). Some 3,500 years ago God commanded His people to have a place outside the camp where they could relieve themselves. They were to each carry a shovel so that they could dig a hole (latrine) and cover their waste. Up until World War I, more soldiers died from disease than war because they did not isolate human waste.

Visit:

The First Book Of Public Hygiene (Answers In Genesis)

Modern medicine? (Answers In Genesis)

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6.

Oceans contain springs (Job 38:16). The ocean is very deep. Almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness and the pressure there is enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the "springs of the sea." Until recently, it was thought that oceans were fed only by rivers and rain. Yet in the 1970s, with the help of deep diving research submarines that were constructed to withstand 6,000 pounds-per-square-inch pressure, oceanographers discovered springs on the ocean floors!

Visit:

Springs of the Ocean (ICR)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7.

There are mountains on the bottom of the ocean floor (Jonah 2:5-6). Only in the last century have we discovered that there are towering mountains and deep trenches in the depths of the sea.

Visit:

Numerical Simulations Of Precipitation Induced By Hot Mid-Ocean Ridges (ICR)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8.

Joy and gladness understood (Acts 14:17). Evolution cannot explain emotions. Matter and energy do not feel. Scripture explains that God places gladness in our hearts (Psalm 4:7), and ultimate joy is found only in our Creator’s presence – “in Your presence is fullness of joy” (Psalm 16:11).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9.

Blood is the source of life and health (Leviticus 17:11; 14). Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled” and many died as a result (e.g. George Washington). Today we know that healthy blood is necessary to bring life-giving nutrients to every cell in the body. God declared that “the life of the flesh is in the blood” long before science understood its function.

Visit:

Life in the Blood (ICR)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10.

The Bible states that God created life according to kinds (Genesis 1:24). The fact that God distinguishes kinds, agrees with what scientists observe – namely that there are horizontal genetic boundaries beyond which life cannot vary. Life produces after its own kind. Dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, roses produce roses. Never have we witnessed one kind changing into another kind as evolution supposes. There are truly natural limits to biological change.

Visit:

Things You May Not Know About Evolution (ICR)

Creation - Evolution (ICR)

Evolution and the Bible (ICR)

The Fossil Record: Intermediate Links (ChristianAnswers.net)

Archaeopteryx A Feathered Reptile? (ChristianAnswers.net)

The Ape-Man: Missing Link (ChristianAnswers.net)

Biological Evolution Darwin's Finches (ChristianAnswers.net)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11.

Noble behavior understood (John 15:13; Romans 5:7-8). The Bible and history reveal that countless people have endangered or even sacrificed their lives for another. This reality is completely at odds with Darwin’s theory of the survival of the fittest.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12.

Chicken or egg dilemma solved (Genesis 1:20-22). Which came first, the chicken or the egg? This question has plagued philosophers for centuries. The Bible states that God created birds with the ability to reproduce after their kind. Therefore the chicken was created first with the ability to make eggs! Yet, evolution has no solution for this dilemma.

Visit:

What Came First, the Chicken or the Egg? (ICR)

The Egg/Chicken Conundrum (ICR)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13.

Which came first, proteins or DNA (Revelation 4:11)? For evolutionists, the chicken or egg dilemma goes even deeper. Chickens consist of proteins. The code for each protein is contained in the DNA/RNA system. However, proteins are required in order to manufacture DNA. So which came first: proteins or DNA? The ONLY explanation is that they were created together.

Visit:

Things that are Made (ICR)

Evolution Hopes You Don't Know Chemistry: The Problem with Chirality (ICR)

Origin of Life: Critique of Early Stage Chemical Evolution Theories (ICR)

The Origin of Life: Theories on the Origin of Biological Order (ICR)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14.

Our bodies are made from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7; 3:19). Scientists have discovered that the human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements – all of which are found in the earth.

Visit:

The elements of the periodic table sorted by their presence in human body. (Lenntech)

The Bible is a Textbook of Science (ICR)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15.

The First Law of Thermodynamics established (Genesis 2:1-2). The First Law states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy or matter may be converted into another, but the total quantity always remains the same. Therefore the creation is finished, exactly as God said way back in Genesis.

Side: Ham
L0gical(12) Disputed
2 points

your own hoax or just copy paste ?

Side: Nye
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Good thing science came around to actually convert those ramblings into actual knowledge.

Side: Nye
2 points

One of the things that bugged me is that ham comes to his 'conclusion' before he has the evidence, then only uses evidence that supports his conclusion.

At the time stamp 2:05:30 When asked what would change his mind he stated the great flood is a fact and they try to form the 'evidence' around to see how it happened, not that it happened.

That is not what science would do and that is looking at the evidence then making a conclusion based off of the whole set of evidence of what happened.

Side: Nye

That debate was painful to watch. Ken Ham got his ass handed to him and didn't provide any evidence for his position other than a few arguments from authority. Ken didn't even need to be there. You could have just replaced him with a sound clip that says "the Bible says creation is true" repeating over and over.

Side: Nye
2 points

Ham fell back on 'you weren't there' so much. His whole stance seems to be avoiding any evidence that does not fit his conclusion.

Cannot deny that Ham is a decent speaker though. Nye stumbles over words sometimes and had a few dead end jokes.

As for content, which is really what matters, I already noted where I stand.

Ham also snuck in some sound bits that weren't factual and the setup allowed them to go uncorrected. But that happens in every debate.

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
2 points

That debate was painful to watch. Ken Ham got his ass handed to him and didn't provide any evidence for his position other than a few arguments from authority. Ken didn't even need to be there. You could have just replaced him with a sound clip that says "the Bible says creation is true" repeating over and over.

My parents thought Ken Ham won.....

Side: Ham
2 points

Bill Nye fucked Ken Ham.

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
5 points

Actually me and my parents thought Ken Ham won because he has the bible to back up his argument.

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

There is a large portion of the population that knows that the Bible can't be used as a source to prove the Bible. The Bible doesn't Ken Ham at all. It actually hurts him.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
2 points

wow really ...fighting against science with book of magic and talking animals :D ...yeeehaaa

Side: Nye
L0gical(12) Disputed
2 points

That I would call fail of parenthood :D

Side: Nye
2 points

The usual clash of science vs ignorance .

Side: Nye
2 points

Creationist are mentally ill. Thinking that stone age poetry has actually something to do with real world... with that way of thinking you must be really scared by Mordor... :P

Side: Nye
1 point

Puts on irritated IB student hat I don't think they should be debating proven science against popular mythology, there's no point. It's clear which the right side of the argument is, and anyone who denys this is deluding themselves.

Side: Nye
GuitarGuy(6096) Disputed
6 points

The existence of a God hasn't been proven or disproven.

Side: Ham
Elvira(3445) Clarified
3 points

The debate is evolution v creation not 'does god exist?'.

Side: Nye
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

I don't think that is what the debate is about.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
1 point

same as the existence of tooth fairy .

Side: Nye
3 points

Agreed. But the gloves have been put on so may as well go from here.

Ham's stances are based on misrepresentations of science and straw men. I don't know if Bill will address those or simply lay out the facts. I guess he will have chances to do both. He has been pretty vocal about how he feels about creationism.

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
6 points

Agreed. But the gloves have been put on so may as well go from here.

Ham's stances are based on misrepresentations of science and straw men. I don't know if Bill will address those or simply lay out the facts. I guess he will have chances to do both. He has been pretty vocal about how he feels about creationism.

Evolution can not explain how information is added only lost.

Side: Ham
Choose-life(32) Disputed
3 points

Agreed. But the gloves have been put on so may as well go from here.

Ham's stances are based on misrepresentations of science and straw men. I don't know if Bill will address those or simply lay out the facts. I guess he will have chances to do both. He has been pretty vocal about how he feels about creationism.

The majority of Americans believe in Creation

Side: Ham
1 point

WELCOME TO THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS :D

Side: Nye

Here are some highlights of the comments about the debate from Reddit.

-

For those of you who didn't see the debate, here's a summary: Ken Ham - "Were you there?" "Here's what the Bible says." "Were you there?" "God invented marriage." "Were you there?" "Natural science is a religion." "Were you there?" "Creationism in school is not religion, and science is indoctrination." "Were you there?" "Here's what the Bible says." "Were You there?" "Less than one percent of scientists believe this, but here they are." "Were you there?" "Here's what the Bible says." "Were you there?" Bill Nye - "Here's the evidence."

-

Cop: Ken hamm, your wife was murdered in your house. We have fingerprints and hair strands all over the place, clues as to what happened in the past.

Ken: Don't prosecute him! all interpretations of the past are equally viable, it could have been a flying leprechaun!!

-

Bill: What evidence beside the Bible can you use to support creationism?

Ken: Well let me talk about what the Bible says...

-

He only needed TWO triceratops on his boat, not all the varieties! It's so much more simple and plausible now!

-

Literally literally means literally

-

Ken says he trusts laws of logic. Every argument he makes is illogical.

-

Bill: Are the fish sinners?

-

"Eggs and Ham are green because Green Eggs And Ham By Dr Suess says so" - Ken Ham

-

I wish Nye would have just asked: "If you weren't there when the Bible was written, how do you know it is the word of god?"

-

http://i.imgur.com/DjAddeF.png

Side: Nye
2 points

You are the better wording version of me! This is exactly what i was thinking. Especially in the case of the crime, and how Ham kept simply stating "We weren't there"

I'd continue to say where we agreed, but I'd become a copy machine simply reiterating all of your points because we agreed on literally everything, and had apparently all of the same thoughts. Even that meme at the end.

Side: Nye
1 point

Why in USA so many people prefer magic instead of science ?

Side: Nye
9 points

What people don't realize is Evolution is a theory on how we got here and Creation is a theory so it unfair to exclude one theory but include another.

Side: Ham
J-Roc77(70) Disputed
4 points

I scientific theory is a specific term. Theories start out as hypotheses, these hypotheses get tested over and over again. If they are robust enough and pass all the testing they are strong enough to be called theories. Science is falsifiable that is it is something that is testable and can be found to be correct or not.

The theory of evolution has been tested by many doctrines, geology, biology and paleontology just to name a few.

Creationism isn't testable. There is no way you can test gods hand in it. Creationism does not accept tests from other sciences and omits lots of evidence, only accepting evidence that supports its already formed conclusion.

Creationism is not a theory like evolution in any way. To present it as such is against academic and scientific integrity.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
2 points

Evolution is a theory same as gravity is a they.

Creation is a myth based purely on bronze age poetry and mythology.

You cannot compare these two...

Side: Nye
DrawFour(2662) Disputed
1 point

Ham's side was also arguing the exclusion of Evolution, so this argument is already flawed.

Side: Nye
Cartman(18192) Disputed
-1 points

Creation is a theory

No, Creation is a story. There is a huge difference.

Side: Nye
Creationist(8) Disputed
4 points

No, Creation is a story. There is a huge difference.

Creationism is a theory supported by the bible evolution is supported by misconceptions and straw man about the bible.

Side: Ham
0 points

Aww, downvoted without an explanation, that's sad.

Side: Nye
8 points

I am of course going for Ken Ham. I have read his books, and go on his website to learn a lot of things. I agree with what he has to say. I believe Ken will win this debate.

Side: Ham
2 points

I am glad you read from the person you support, that's a good thing.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
2 points

Off course how you could miss in the "because bible says so" club :D

Side: Nye
8 points

Nye's response to hard questions "That's the mystery".

Got to love ignorance.

Side: Ham
4 points

Nye's response to hard questions "That's the mystery".

Got to love ignorance.

It's sad that Bill Nye doesn't review his facts

Side: Ham

Yeah I know. im sure Ham would review his facts over and over.....if he had any

Side: Ham
kaveri(319) Disputed
1 point

t's sad that Bill Nye doesn't review his facts

quoting bible is like quoting harry Potter ...

Side: Nye
AveSatanas(4425) Disputed
3 points

I heard this once or twice and its typically a substitute for "we don't know". Which, in science, is a perfectly good answer. an HONEST answer. Do we know everything about everything in the whole universe? No! So when asked about such things what else should Nye respond with? Should he make up a divine authority to stick in the gaps of our knowledge? That's what Ham and all the creationists do. Its not ignorance, its honesty. Ignorance is Ham who, dispite being exposed to all the evidence in the world for evolution (and a dictionary so he shouldn't be confused on "term" as he apparently really is) still rejects it using the most flawed, outdated, and intellectually reprehensible arguments from ignorance and pre-suppositions.

Side: Nye
Anthonyhook(178) Disputed
3 points

Evolution is still just a theory. Not fact. We accept God by faith. The reason I have faith is the evidence I see around me. Evolutionis also accepted by faith. Faith in the scientist who think they know what is fact.

Side: Ham
J-Roc77(70) Disputed
2 points

This is because in sciences you have to prove something is. In my opinion Nye should have listed a few hypotheses as to why but that area of questioning is not his strength.

ham's answer is a bit funny as well, it was just pandering to the believers and not trying to change the other sides mind. No one has proved the bible to be true, but people seem to claim it is all the time. The hubris is must take to say true when they cannot prove it is astounding.

Side: Nye
Anthonyhook(178) Clarified
4 points

What about all of the scientific facts in the bible that was not known to scientist for hundreds of years. It was there in the bible if they would have just trusted it. I can name at least 100 in the bible, that have only been discovered by science in last 500 years, mostly less than that.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
1 point

Ken responded that's magic ...

Side: Nye
8 points

Ken Ham crushed Bill Nye in the debate I feel sorry for Bill Nye...................

Side: Ham
L0gical(12) Disputed
1 point

maybe, if you think that circular logic is a valid way of thinking ... :P

Side: Nye
7 points

Ken Ham has far stronger arguments then Bill Nye so I think he will win

Side: Ham
2 points

Downvoted for no reason?

Side: Ham
2 points

I hate that........................................................................

Side: Ham
SexyBanana(306) Disputed
1 point

Down voted because Ken Ham is a fraud who thinks the bible is fact.

Side: Nye
Akulakhan(2973) Disputed
1 point

Name one good argument for Ken Ham's belief.

Side: Nye
Choose-life(32) Disputed
7 points

Name one good argument for Ken Ham's belief.

Were you there?

Side: Ham
AveSatanas(4425) Disputed
0 points

Theyre only stronger to you if you have the pre-supposition that his side is true. in reality his arguments had zero depth and equated to the same thing being reiterated a thousand ways with no evidence other than "creationists are smart too". Nye on the other hand brought up examples and numbers and figures to take down Ham's shit arguments.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
0 points

by stronger argument you mean "because bible says so" ?

Side: Nye
5 points

Evolution is a religious concept like Creation is a religious concept................................................

Evolution teaches the religion of naturalism

Creationism is supported by the bible

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

A) Naturalism isn't a religion.

B) Creationism is described in the Bible, it isn't supported by anything.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
1 point

Evolution is well established scientific discipline, based on evidence.

Creationism is based on bronze age mythology.

Side: Nye
A_Christian(6) Disputed
2 points

Evolution is well established scientific discipline, based on evidence.

Bill Nye just showing up shows there is a scientific controversy.

Side: Ham
5 points

These people should read Genesis 1-11 which explains what really happens as opposed to naturalistic scientists

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

You people should read a science book.

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
1 point

Magic, really. Are you retarded ?

Side: Nye
3 points

I believe we should teach both sides and let kids decide instead of forcing kids to hear evolution but not creationism or at least teach intelligent design

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

I agree, they should teach the controversy. They should teach that there is a group of people so delusional that they can't let go of the idea that Creation happened. It will be a good laugh and then they can go on with teaching actual stuff.

Side: Nye
L0gical(12) Disputed
2 points

to teach magic and science in same class ?

Side: Nye
kaveri(319) Disputed
1 point

There is Evolution and about 3700 different creation myths, based on pre historical mythology. These things are not equal.

You cannot compare hard science with low quality poetry.

Side: Nye
3 points

Bill Nye just showing up at the debate shows that there is a real controversy scientifically and why we should teach both sides.

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
3 points

They should teach the British history/Harry Potter controversy.

Side: Nye
L0gical(12) Disputed
2 points

both sides like in geography teaching round earth theory on side with flat earth theory?

Side: Nye
2 points

The bible is right on everything else so it wouldn't be wrong here it was right on the shape of the earth and the water cycle so it's pretty rational that it also includes evolution

Side: Ham
2 points

The bible is right evolution is wrong this whole thing is simple and anyway science confuses me...............

Side: Ham
L0gical(12) Disputed
1 point

so simple because you are semi retarded moron and find creationism simpler ..it is right.. ?

Side: Nye
2 points

Evolution is a just a theory as creation is so there is no point to exclude one but allow the other.

Side: Ham
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You logged on with your old account just to make a false statement and downvote people? You are weird.

Side: Nye
Jc41218(1559) Disputed
2 points

You logged on with your old account just to make a false statement and downvote people? You are weird.

No this is my debate account still I decided to use this one as my account as leave all the others I made in the past.

Side: Ham
L0gical(12) Disputed
1 point

creation is not a theory, it is a myth because it is based on bronze age mythology.

Side: Nye