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Bin Laden warns Obama of consequences- Will Bin Laden succeed?
Recent news is that Osama Bin Laden warns Obama and the US that we will suffer consequences for Obama planting seeds of hatred towards America (into the Al-Queda's minds?). It's a bit unclear and short right now, but do you believe Bin Laden will once again succeed in a terrorist attack in America? If so, what do you think he's planning? If you don't, why not?
Feel free to add more updates to the story if you know of any to keep the debate rolling.
There's no real way to stop terrorism completely. But that Osama is talking again means things aren't all hunky dorey for him.
Luckily with the closing of places like quananamo, our abandoning torture, and our plans for pulling out of Iraq, it's harder for people like Osama to recruit.
Recent news is that Osama Bin Laden warns Obama and the US that we will suffer consequences for Obama planting seeds of hatred towards America (into the Al-Queda's minds?).
I've been out of touch for almost a week now but this sentence does not seem right to me. Did you actually mean Obama is planting seeds of hatred towards America???? I don't get it!
Ya, the "planting seeds of hatred towards America"... doesn't it mean the same thing? Because I otherwise, don't really get why it sounds like gibberish (the actual "quote" sentence that Osama said on tape").
Actually, it goes back as far as Clinton when it comes to President's making it hard for the CIA and FBI to protect us adequately. I'm not sure at this point how much the White House has allowed them (CIA and FBI) to improve and update their businesses to protect us at the level we need, but it's probably not up to par completely. But if it's anything like it was when Clinton was in office, there's a chance of an attack actually succeeding again.
He's talking about torture, and torture has never worked anyway. It doesn't go back to Clinton, it started and ended with Bush, (or more likely Dick) and even they quit doing it after a couple years... so actually I don't know why Obama haters are even trying to pull this one, outside of just wanting to figure out some way of saying he's really an undercover terrorist no matter how ridiculous that makes them sound.
every expert? i would consider the CIA as experts, and they say it worked. in fact, the memos that "your boy" Obama released says that they worked.
McCain is not my boy. I would have preferred him over Obama, but I would have much rather preferred Bob Barr over any of the candidates. not because he was best for the job, but because he was the lesser of the evils.
not about politics or ideology, it's about what I think is right.
and simulated drowning is the least of their problems. the people who were waterboarded (you can call it torture if you want, but the methods that THEY used on our troops were over 9000 times worse) were high valued detainees who had done horrible things to other people. Guantanamo itself was a resort compared to the shit hole caves that they lived in. KSM was evil and had planned the 9/11 attacks and was planning other attacks. i think discomfort for this bastard is the last thing i want to think about. The CIA saved lives, that's what i do know. attacks were prevented and arrests were made and the CIA (who prevented the attacks and made the arrests) said that waterboarding helped them save our lives. I'll give them this one, as a "thank you" i guess.
Well, regardless of you opinion of McCain, he too is against torture.
Along with
Colin Powell
Lindsey Graham
John Warner
and hordes of other prominant Republicans who have somehow managed to put partisanship aside for the greater good of our country.
Please, show me some proof that we tortured someone, and this stopped some terrorist attack. You have people saying that this happened, but there has not been a scrap of proof of this, only the word of people who understandably want it to be true so they aren't prosecuted for it some time in the future (though Obama hasn't made any move to prosecute... a real lefty)
This isn't a tv drama. If we have one detained with some info on a terrorist attack pending, the other perpetrators would switch up the plan once he was captured, rendering the info obtained from the torturee useless even if true.
But it doesn't matter, because there is nothing about torture which encourages people to tell the truth, it only encourages them to tell their captors whatever they think it is they want to hear. There are other much more productive ways of getting info that are not illegal.
So even pretending we don't care about our own integrity, and even if we don't care that we ourselves have prosecuted and executed other countries' soldiers for torturing our own soldiers, (including Japanese soldiers we convicted for waterboarding in WWII... yes, waterboarding) it doesn't work anyway.
So why do it? If it's a recruiting tool, makes us look terrible, and there are other ways of getting the same info?
I mean, I'm for revenge against someone who just wants to kill people for no reason as much as the next guy, but we need to maintain some sense of self here.
This isn't an end all issue for me, it's like a side issue. There are far more important debates I think. But I fail to see the advantage of this practice when all the pros and cons are weighed.
As for waterboarding not being torture, here's a vid of a very right leaning libertarian who also used to say it was not torture, so much so he volunteered for it himself:
Mancow actually wasn't even properly waterboarded. it was supposed to be on a twenty degree slant, and, the water is supposed to be slightly poured onto him, not just one big bucket crashing down.
and not wanting to prosecute the CIA has nothing to do with politics, it has to do with common sense. Obama and his family are alive because of the CIA and the Bush administration, for that, he will not prosecute them.
and as i've said countless amount of times, the CIA (the only people who could possibly know if waterboarding saved lives) says that it did. the only other argument is that they're liars. okay then, call them liars and we can end it there.
also, according to the memos, the reason WHY waterboarding and other coerce methods were working was because the CIA knew that the terrorists had taught their men that Allah would let them give info in order to stop the pain. Of course, this information is useless now since they know that we knew and they will obviously teach their men other things. they've already been teaching them how to resist waterboarding (the best thing about waterboarding is that there is no way to resist it, doesn't matter anymore though, we're not aloud).
also, terrorists used movies like Redacted and basically all talking points on MSNBC to recruit...
torture was a hard thing to spin mainly because they would do real torture to our soldiers... you know, saw them at the limbs joint by joint, pour acid on their wounds, and eventually behead them when they're done. hell, they did it for fun, not just for info.
and why do i care about what Republicans think? sure, most Libertarians and Republicans are for it, and even some Democrats are (the ones who have a relative fighting in Iraq at least). Maybe it's just some people are more sensitive than others. But how exactly is saying that "hordes" or Republicans are against it really going to change MY mind on the issue? since when do i care about what Republicans think. I never really looked at an issue and said "hmm, i wonder what the Republicans have to say about this".
the memos were already released. the Obama administration tried to censor what we had accomplished from the waterboarding and actually blacked it out so much that they wanted to ONLY make the CIA look bad for it. BUT, enough info was given to say that it worked. and the CIA confirmed it, even wanting the rest of the information to be given out so that they could prove 100% that waterboarding was effective.
"in fact, the memos that "your boy" Obama released says that they worked."
No they do not. If you think they did, prove it.
"you can call it torture if you want, but the methods that THEY used on our troops were over 9000 times worse"
Such a stupid argument, I can't believe people are still using it. Did you hear about the conservative radio talk show host who was water boarded to prove it isn't torture, but stopped about 6 seconds and now claims it is "definitely torture."
"Guantanamo itself was a resort compared to the shit hole caves that they lived in."
Yes because at least in Guantanamo they weren't stripped naked, handcuffed, deprived of sleep, beaten, sodomized, thrown against walls, blindfolded, and water boarded. Oh wait, those things did happen at Guantanamo.
they were the ones who prevented the attacks and they were the ones who said that waterboarding helped them do it.
if you have a REAL problem with what the CIA said, take it up with them. all i'm telling you is that the ONLY people who could possibly know this say that it did work. really, what else is there?