CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
Blonde people are not a fucking race, you moron. I'm blonde, and I do not belong to the "blonde race" - I belong to the AUSTRALIAN race. God damn... never before has such stupidity smacked me in the face.
Did you or did you not read the debate description? I stated therein that blondes are typically of European descent, therefore "blonde jokes" are jokes against those of European descent, and therefore potentially racist in origin.
australian isn't a race you idiotic english retard, there is such thing as a nordic race, and the hair colour isn't JUST THE DIFFERENCE nordics are red head and or blonde, red hair goes with green eyes and blonde hair god with blue eyes, they are slender but muscular, have tall skulls, are pale and are naturally well... sexy! the stupidity that apparently slapped you in the face backfired for your statement was incorrect non the less. Nordic is an official sub race meaning it is part of the corcasian (white for a simpleton like you) race but is part of a different one if you were to look deeper. It is from the scandinavian race from northern europe, scandinava obviously as it's called, and british people think they are part of the white race which they may be, but they have a totally different natural skin colour and appearance, before you englishmen CLAIMED they were part of YOUR race when frankly they had NO origins there WHAT SO EVER! so There should be an official race called nordic that goes like this, instead of white it's this: african, asian, english, nordic. but it should also include the other races instead of white and black and asian: english, nordic, spanish (mexican) aborigine african american african canadian indian thai egyptian syrian sri nlankan and the other middle eastern, italian greek, chinese japanese. and all the others, and I'm from australian but I have no english or scottish origins and I definitely am not convict. and australian, americans, and candians think they're native to those english invaded countries" I'M AUSSIE IM AMERICAN I'M CANADIAN! no you are white and from england the native blacks are australian, american, and canadian. you idiot who invaded those countries and killed off all those innocent blacks, you know what! how would you like it if the swedish Finnish norwegians icelandics and danish started up pillaging again huh? you're poor anglo saxon country! I rest my case.
YOUR STATEMENT IS WRONG, AND BLONDE JOKES AR RACIST GOODBYE.
Racism is the belief that your ethnicity is superior to others (or that some ethnicities are better than others). It's a confusing word, since race isn't black or white, but for the sake of saying that a member of the KKK is a racist, that's what we can assume.
So if you make a joke, the point is to make some laugh at the expense of others. It is not a formal statement of ethnic superiority.
So something can't be racist as long as it's at least attempting to be funny? Racism is only expressed through 'formal statements'? And what are you imagining that to be, anyway, a written document or a prepared speech?
Racist humor plays to stereotypes and enforces ideas about the low worth of the target group compared to others. That's racist.
So something can't be racist as long as it's at least attempting to be funny?
No, it can be from a racist sentiment, but unless you have proof of these racist sentiments, it's jumping the gun to suggest so.
Racism is only expressed through 'formal statements'?
Once again, proof of racism is.
a written document or a prepared speech?
No, just a legitimate statement of someone's belief that one ethnicity is better than the other. When Dave Chappelle does stand-up comedy making fun of white people, we don't just assume that he's a racist. Now, if Dave just said in an interview "in all honesty, white people are a bunch of dipshit motherfuckers who are exploiting black men, and I don't trust them, no joke" then it would be safe to assume that he's racist.
Racist humor plays to stereotypes and enforces ideas about the low worth of the target group compared to others.
No... it just pokes fun at taboo statements on ethnicity. Like black people having big lips or asians being bad drivers. It's about laughter... and laughter is a good thing. If we're laughing at these stereotypes, it shows that we're post-racial if we're not worried about offense or such. We just like to enjoy shit... kind of like post-sex war, when we can all just take mdma and fuck each other and not care about formalities.
That's racist
A mentality like that is what's keeping us from moving on.
Note that I'm not trying to say someone must automatically be a racist if they recite a racist joke. But a racist joke is still racist, no matter who tells it.
The only distinction you seem to be drawing between 'racist' and 'not racist' is still humor. Someone can send identical racist messages with two methods of communication, but as long as one of them is ended with 'haha guys, totally kidding!', it's not racist? Not only is it not racist, it's actually progressive, and people who call out shitty jokes are actually the ones being racist?
Do racists openly admit to the world they hate certain races, or do they often mask their prejudice as 'just a joke', especially if they get called out on it? Don't you think there are plenty of racists who don't even admit their prejudice to themselves? Are they not racist because there's been no formal declaration?
People can create an unwelcoming environment for others without explicitly saying anything, and jokes contribute to that environment. They foster and normalize shitty attitudes in listeners and remind the joke's target that they are different in a bad way. I think it's disingenuous to ignore the effects of racist jokes, and not only pretend they don't contribute to any climate of prejudice, but that they are actually helpful.
This the first result for 'racist jokes' on google. How these jokes are not operating on stereotypes or desensitizing people to the sentiment that other races are not worth as much by turning the idea into something funny? How are they post-racial? Why is it a positive thing to refuse to consider how one's speech affects others?
Note that I'm not trying to say someone must automatically be a racist if they recite a racist joke.
I know
But a racist joke is still racist, no matter who tells it.
I disagree. Racist implies a statement of inferiority. Comedy is an art form. A comedian is a performer. One does not say that an actor who portrays a racist is being racist. He's just portraying a racist. The act of being puts in a mindset. Actors and performers are faking, not being. Either way, this part doesn't really matter. Just showing how I view things.
The only distinction you seem to be drawing between 'racist' and 'not racist' is still humor.
Incorrect. One is innocent until proven guilty. PROVEN. A racist joke proves nothing.
but as long as one of them is ended with 'haha guys, totally kidding!', it's not racist?
Possibly. It's irrelevant to whether you could claim that the person is ACTUALLY being racist. Once again, innocent until proven guilty.
and people who call out shitty jokes are actually the ones being racist?
If a joke is shitty, call them out on it. I, personally, hate it when people tell bad jokes. I find it offensive, if anything. however, saying that they're racist is something else. this offends you as a jewish person; no, it offends me as a comedian
Do racists openly admit to the world they hate certain races,
sometimes
do they often mask their prejudice as 'just a joke', especially if they get called out on it?
sometimes
Don't you think there are plenty of racists who don't even admit their prejudice to themselves?
sure.
Are they not racist because there's been no formal declaration?
That's really up to their audience, isn't it? What authority says otherwise?
jokes contribute to that environment.
They can. They can contribute to an opposite environment, as well.
They foster and normalize shitty attitudes in listeners and remind the joke's target that they are different in a bad way.
Well, they could do that, sure. They can also remind us that we're all humans with qualities that we can either acknowledge and have a good laugh on or stay silent and constantly be apologizing for pointing out. Political correctness, to me, is more dangerous than outright racism. Outright racism invites scrutiny, which results in the exchanging of ideas. Political correctness is censorship that will never invite an exchange of beliefs and ideals. Racists will continue to believe in whatever dumb belief they have (because, one does not simply stop being racist by being politically correct... they just shut up around the right people).
I think it's disingenuous to ignore the effects of racist jokes, and not only pretend they don't contribute to any climate of prejudice, but that they are actually helpful.
Jokes are tools, nothing more. They can be used for good and used for bad. But you do not blame the tool for the end result, you blame the user. If you truly believe that someone who is saying a racist joke is being harmful for the sake of being harmful, it would not be wrong of you to believe that they are racist. However, it would be wrong of you to make such an assumption JUST BECAUSE the joke had racist qualities.
How are they post-racial?
Post-racial is a state of being. A joke that is post-racial... well, it would derive from post-modern comedy that focuses on race. For me, that would be very realistic portrayals of people of a certain race. Like a bunch of black girls laughing very loudly out of nowhere and then just getting on the floor and freaking out. It wouldn't be "this is what black girls do," it would just be showing us what black girls do. Of course, I do have an idea for a skit that does directly attack a type of group of people, but it's post-modern in the sense that it's very descriptive and not focused on old stereotypes that you see in something like the link that you provided.
Post-racial, though, is a state of mind. One sees past the fear of being called a racist because they already know that they are not racist. I do not view any ethnicity as an inferior. I see people for their minds, and their minds only. However, I still love to make fun of people, no matter who they are, ranging from black to white to hispanic to gay to conservative to burn victims. Why? Because I can. I hate no one. I love to make people laugh. If it results in angering certain groups, I'm okay with it. My life has been threatened before and I have still yet to retract my statements (unless I feel that what I've said was inaccurate or illegible).
The first part of your response is still framed like I'm trying to say racist joke = racist joke teller, and that still is not what I'm trying to say.
How, exactly, do jokes that operate on sweeping, insulting, and often wildly inaccurate generalizations serve to remind people of their common humanity? Separating people by race, and attributing a set of behaviors to that race, is divisive, not unifying.
How do you define censorship? I can't count how many times I've seen these same words used to defend someone's imaginary right to spew bigoted speech without consequence. If people refuse to associate with you or tolerate your racist jokes, they're not censoring you. They're just not putting up with your shit.
If someone's privately a racist but learns that people will give them shit if they voice it, and thus their racism never has a chance to hurt the target of their prejudice - fine with me. Next best thing to not being a racist at all.
Why are new stereotypes better than old stereotypes?
I'm not sure how you can justify using the term 'post-racial' to refer to humor that uses expectations of behavior based on race. Would your joke be just as funny if it was another race? If not, isn't it because it illustrates how you expect black people to behave? If so, why did you choose black people?
You spent a lot of time explaining why you think racist jokes are okay and how they don't bother you...but how much time do you spend considering how it feels to be a target of racist jokes? Don't you think it might, at the very least, be seriously fucking annoying to see/hear the same worn-out caricatures of yourself ubiquitously presented, have them defend as 'just a joke', and then have to put up with the people who apply those expectations to their interactions with you?
The first part of your response is still framed like I'm trying to say racist joke = racist joke teller, and that still is not what I'm trying to say.
I'm glad you're finding some attempt to respond to what I said, at least...
How, exactly, do jokes that operate on sweeping, insulting, and often wildly inaccurate generalizations serve to remind people of their common humanity?
Well, people shouldn't feel that they are entitled to not have their character assassinated. After all, what makes one so special that they should just never get their feelings hurt by a harmless joke?
And it seems to be that YOU believe they are wildly inaccurate. You seem to be generalizing all racist jokes in general 8l
Separating people by race, and attributing a set of behaviors to that race, is divisive, not unifying.
So whenever I tell a black joke, I shouldn't point out that i'm talking about a black person? That isn't funny, though 8l
How do you define censorship?
the act or practice of censoring according to dictionary.com.
I can't count how many times I've seen these same words used to defend someone's imaginary right to spew bigoted speech without consequence.
Irrelevant how many other people you've talked to that you believe are bigots.
Am I those people? Clearly I'm not. Now, if you believe that I am personally a bigot, that's a different story. But constantly using anecdotal evidence is considered a fallacy.
If people refuse to associate with you or tolerate your racist jokes, they're not censoring you.
never said it was.
If someone's privately a racist but learns that people will give them shit if they voice it, and thus their racism never has a chance to hurt the target of their prejudice - fine with me
So your issue isn't with actually eliminating racism. It's about people shutting up so that you can only hear things that you agree with.
Interesting that you enjoy being on a debate site 8l
Why are new stereotypes better than old stereotypes?
Just how new memes are better than old ones. Old stuff gets boring after a while.
Would your joke be just as funny if it was another race?
No. That's the point 8l
If not, isn't it because it illustrates how you expect black people to behave?
I don't expect anything from anyone.
If so, why did you choose black people?
I don't single out black people if that's what you're getting at (I'm sure you're not that bad, but just in case).
As for the specific joke, it's because it would make most sense since it's relate-able. I've described a couple of my skits to black people and even they think it's accurate to have black girls freaking the fuck out when they laugh. After all, I'd have to get actresses who are actually black for this skit to work.
Do you watch Chappelle's Show or Key and Peele or Chocolate News? Do you find those shows offensive when they make fun of black people?
but how much time do you spend considering how it feels to be a target of racist jokes?
A target? Whenever people make fun of me, personally, as long as they're being witty I don't really mind at all (be it about my ethnicity or my actual self). If they rehash old shit I'll just call them out on it... or make really good come-backs. You seem to be confusing a generic racist joke with people who actually use that joke for either good or bad. This is like a gun debate... but racist jokes.
be seriously fucking annoying to see/hear the same worn-out caricatures of yourself ubiquitously presented,
As stated before, I find any worn-out joke to be offensive, racist or not. The next time someone says "swag" I will destroy them (verbally).
and then have to put up with the people who apply those expectations to their interactions with you?
Oh, so it's about actually doing racist things to people and not REALLY about the jokes that "led" up to them (even though the jokes existence is irrelevant to how others treat you).
Well, people shouldn't feel that they are entitled to not have their character assassinated.
I'm pretty sure people are entitled to not have their character assassinated. That's why defamation is illegal. Fortunately for you, racist jokes aren't character assassination because the term doesn't apply to attacks on an entire demographic.
I never said anything to support the idea that people should be legally protected from hearing racist jokes, or legally prevented from telling them. I just have a huge problem with you framing this like you're being progressive instead of chipping in to help racism, and people who speak up about thinking it's wrong are the ones who are actually the problem.
And it seems to be that YOU believe they are wildly inaccurate. You seem to be generalizing all racist jokes in general 8l
The thing about racist jokes is that people from the same race are different. Whatever you say about x race, you're probably wrong a lot of the time. Even if a social trend holds true for a high percentage of a certain race, it's ignorant and misleading to phrase it as though it's caused by genetics instead of environment.
So whenever I tell a black joke, I shouldn't point out that i'm talking about a black person? That isn't funny, though 8l
Why does a joke become unfunny if you omit race qualifiers? Why is a behavior funny if a race x does it, but unfunny if race y does it?
the act or practice of censoring according to dictionary.com.
Thanks for a helpful response to a real question. I'll rephrase: because I so frequently encounter this victimized attitude in people who defend their racist jokes in a fashion similar to you, I have a feeling you're doing exactly what I described. One step in testing this is to try to understand what situations make you feel like you're being censored.
So your issue isn't with actually eliminating racism. It's about people shutting up so that you can only hear things that you agree with.
Don't bother painting caricatures, I'm sure you don't actually think I don't care to see racism eliminated. Racists exist, of course, but if they never feel comfortable enough to perpetuate or act on their prejudice, that's the best we can hope for. What else do you think I can do except try to contribute to an culture that is not a safe place for racism? Thought policing?
Just how new memes are better than old ones. Old stuff gets boring after a while.
Okay, so not because they're less inaccurate or fallacious. Got it.
I don't expect anything from anyone.
So it's a coincidence you wrote a joke about a group of people acting in a way that falls in line with a common expectation about their behavior?
If you don't expect a particular type of behavior from a particular group, why is your joke funny to you? Why isn't it just as funny if you replace 'black people' with 'people who are 5'6" tall'? Or if you replaced the behavior of 'laughing very loudly out of nowhere and then just getting on the floor and freaking out' with 'sneezing 5 times in a row'? Do you think people would laugh? I'm going to guess no, and that's probably because they have no expectation that black people behavior includes sneezing 5 times in a row, or that behavior for people 5'6" includes falling on the ground and laughing really loud.
If you have no expectations about behavior, wouldn't one group engaging in a certain behavior be just as funny as another group doing it? If not, why not? I kind of asked the same question earlier but it's a major part of this and I'm really curious about it. The only answer I can think of is that the humor relies on different values and expectations assigned carte blanche to different races...which is the definition of racism and has been my point all along.
Also, it doesn't matter if your black friends like your jokes. It doesn't matter if I'm personally offended by Chapelle's Show or not. Racist jokes still contribute to culture that is more comfortable for a racist than a member of the targeted group, because you are validating the views of the former, and pushing the latter away as an Other. I hope you can see the problem with that.
Oh, so it's about actually doing racist things to people and not REALLY about the jokes that "led" up to them (even though the jokes existence is irrelevant to how others treat you).
If we lived in an alternate universe where racism didn't exist, and somehow racist jokes still existed but didn't at all foster racism, then I would have no problem with them.
PS: I have a PDF of a research article that begins by citing numerous studies on the negative social consequences of racist humor, but also spends a lot of time discussing the mechanisms of humor and psychology at work in racist jokes. If you're interested, I can email it to you.
The thing about racist jokes is that people from the same race are different.
I know.
you're probably wrong a lot of the time.
That isn't really the point of a joke. If jokes were supposed to be 100% accurate... well, they wouldn't exist, because nothing is 100% accurate.
My goal is to make them really accurate but also really offensive and blasphemous (be it about race or religion or ideology). The point? Well, I enjoy the fact that no matter what terrible things I say, i can still make people laugh and NOT have them hate me. Clearly I'm doing something right with these people.
Humor isn't about science... sure, there's scientific humor, but that's about 1% of humor. Refer to South Park, Colbert Report and Key and Peele. All generalize groups, all are funny (unless you hate all those shows as well... really, what kind of humor DO you like?)
Why does a joke become unfunny if you omit race qualifiers?
It's funny because you're attacking race when you know you're not supposed to (at times). I'm not one for blatantly offensive humor without any creativity because it's easy (just like repeating memes on Facebook... I hate it when people think they're funny even though they're not creative).
But here's an example as to why a certain black joke is funny ONLY because we're talking about black people:
How long does it take a black woman to take a shit?
9 months.
Shit is black, get it?
One step in testing this is to try to understand what situations make you feel like you're being censored.
I'll be damned if I'm ever censored. No, you missed my point. When YOU say that you prefer it if others were open about racism or just say racist jokes, you're saying that you'd prefer for people to censor themselves. This leads to ideas NOT being exchanged and for debates on race to not continue.
they never feel comfortable enough to perpetuate or act on their prejudice, that's the best we can hope for.
No, they'll only feel comfortable around those who will support their views. See "Group Polarization."
Thought policing?
That exists. it's called Hate Crime Laws.
so not because they're less inaccurate or fallacious.
Use of fallacies can greatly contribute to humor. See "satire" or "trolling."
So it's a coincidence you wrote a joke about a group of people acting in a way that falls in line with a common expectation about their behavior?
Well, the one about the black chicks throwing a fit as they laugh is based on observations from back in High School (it was a third black). I could just record it the scene and say "lol, wow," but that would be mean since their identities would be on the internet for all to laugh at. My goal is to get good actors to play out very similar situations, but then add some surrealism... it's a lot to explain, but watch Tim and Eric Awesome Show Great Job to get what I mean in the sense of realistic yet humorous acting styles.
I kind of asked the same question earlier but it's a major part of this and I'm really curious about it.
I kind of feel that you're asking me why anything is funny... well, you're right, humor is subjective and relative and probably not important at all... but we laugh because we can.
If we lived in an alternate universe where racism didn't exist, and somehow racist jokes still existed but didn't at all foster racism, then I would have no problem with them.
Like, in an alternative universe where violence didn't exist but weapons did but didn't foster violence, it would be okay. Otherwise, you hate weapons and think anyone who uses them are evil.
Like, in an alternative universe where drug addiction didn't exist but drugs did but didn't foster drug addiction, then you'd be alright with drugs.
Alcohol - Drinking and driving
Cell phones - texting and driving
Highway system - large amount of traffic fatalities.
Yeah, the world is a fucked up place. But don't get pissed off just because we like to laugh at it all :(
as for the study, I'm familiar with a few studies on how people who enjoy racist jokes are MORE likely to be racist. sure. Have you ever taken an IAT? If you did, you'll find that you're prejudice against a certain group. I don't know which one you are specifically, but go ahead, take one.
I want to know, though... after all of this, do you assume that I am racist? Or am I just an exception to the rule?
Clearly I match the criteria (enjoying offensive humor in general, but that includes racist humor).
Some jokes rely on absurdity, but many are funny because they operate on an assumption people can buy into or relate to, and racist jokes fall into that category. That's why racist jokes don't work if you substitute the target race for another demographic but change nothing else.
What is the other 99% of humor? Magic? Randomness? There is absolutely science to humor. We don't laugh at everything, and there are common elements to most 'funny' things.
But here's an example as to why a certain black joke is funny ONLY because we're talking about black people...
You were so quick to dismiss that link I gave earlier that I kind of hoped you didn't tell jokes that were exactly the same.
This is the kind of thing you think invites an open exchange of ideas that's supposed to eradicate racism? This is post-racial? You told a joke that refers to black infants as literal pieces of shit, and you think you're being progressive? How can you possibly refuse to take a bit of responsibility for any cultural malignance towards other races when you perpetuate jokes like this?
Use of fallacies can greatly contribute to humor. See "satire" or "trolling."
Of course I don't meant jokes have to be logically valid, I should have been more specific. Racist jokes create a false cause between genetics and a specific set of behaviors. When people grow up hearing the messages that a race acts a certain way because of genetics and not because of environment, they can't help but absorbing them to some extent. This isn't changed just because not everyone uses it to become deliberately racist.
With your joke, do you really think black girls act like that because they're black, or because they were raised in an environment that allows/encourages behavior like that? And it's just as likely that a white person raised in an identical environment would display that behavior, too?
Like, in an alternative universe where violence didn't exist but weapons did but didn't foster violence...
Yes, I have a problem with all of those things when they are used to hurt other people, and I have a problem with people who try to say that hurting people with any of those things is somehow progressive and will eventually lead to a world where no one gets hurt by them.
Here's some of the article, it goes further than enjoyment being connected with a likelihood of racism.
---
...it has been argued that ‘‘ethnic’’ humour often forms a conflict device in the United
States (Burma 1946), that racist humour can cause offence or psychological damage
(Fry 1977), and that it could affect group morale (La Fave 1977). Many have
suggested racist humour is of the Hobbesian kind, a laugh at sudden glory, a form of
ridicule, or some other derivative of the superiority theory. Ford and Ferguson argue
disparagement (sexist or racist) humour ‘‘is likely to increase tolerance of other
instances of discrimination against the targeted group . . . for people who are
relatively high in prejudice toward the disparaged group’’ (2004, 81).
The wider consequences of racist humour have been examined in relation to it
reinforcing racist ideology. In this vein, Berger argues ‘‘that groups tend to seek out
material . . . that reinforces their view of things and supports and validates their belief
system’’ (1995b, 21). Boskin suggests that the act of comic repetition is significant for
reinforcing beliefs and ‘‘leads to responses in which critical judgement can be
seriously impaired’’ (1987, 257), and, quoting Levine, that it leads to ‘‘momentarily
suspending ‘the rules of logic, time, place, reality, and proper conduct . . .’. That
momentary suspension can be extended through repetition so that the illusion
becomes ‘locked in’ and typed’’ (Boskin 1987, 260). Significantly, he omits that
humour has any effect above that achieved by serious racism without this repetition.
Billig (2009) argues for a consideration of context while asserting the harmfulness of
violent racist humour, and Husband argues ethnic humour in Britain is distinctly
culturally racist and that stereotypes in humour often appear as binary oppositions
(1988, 155). Again, he suggests that it reinforces and reinvigorates stereotypes but
does not describe why humour is an important vehicle in distinction to serious
communication.
---
I took the first IAt on the list and got this:
Your data suggest a moderate association of Female with Science and Male with Liberal Arts compared to Male with Science and Female with Liberal Arts.
I'm not sure what that's supposed to say, but I have no doubt that taking others would show some associations I wish I didn't have. I've never tried to say that they're not common, just that they're not good and they're nothing to condone, protect, or frame as something edgy, forward-thinking, or positive.
I want to know, though... after all of this, do you assume that I am racist? Or am I just an exception to the rule?
I can't say, but probably. The fact that you think it's funny to call babies pieces of shit because they're black doesn't help. I'm sure you don't think you're a racist, and maybe your interactions with other races aren't skewed by any preconceptions- I don't know. Whether you are or you aren't, I think you're deliberately ignoring the environment created by racist humor, so you can keep being edgy and not feel like a bad person.
but many are funny because they operate on an assumption people can buy into or relate to, and racist jokes fall into that category.
In some cases, yes, but this doesn't necessarily make even those jokes wrong. When I tell a joke about how a black kid's hair gets stuck to velcro, people laugh because that's a physical characteristic. What... are you going to deny that these altered characteristics exist? And if you don't deny them, are we supposed to not laugh at this when someone says something witty? Why is laughing the bad part?
We don't laugh at everything,
Sure, I don't laugh at my blank TV. But I do laugh whenever I see a black dude eating fried chicken. Not at his face, but just at the fact that he's partaking in a stereotype, and he knows he's partaking but doesn't give a fuck, as most shouldn't. I love fried chicken because it's delicious. So does he. But our culture recognizes the stereotype on black people, and as progressed human beings, we laugh when we witness stereotypes in action instead of getting angry or bitter.
Laughter is a good thing. But who knows. Maybe I'm too light hearted and don't realize how terrible the real world is. Maybe you're right, I shouldn't laugh. Thank God for my stupidity, right?
You were so quick to dismiss that link I gave earlier that I kind of hoped you didn't tell jokes that were exactly the same.
Well, I don't normally tell jokes that I didn't make up. But if there's a circle of racist jokes going on, I'll throw a couple in that I've heard. It's just that my favorite is the 9 month shit one. It really is quite clever.
This is the kind of thing you think invites an open exchange of ideas that's supposed to eradicate racism?
No, just the willingness to say whatever you feel. Jokes are just ways for people to relax. At least, that's how I see it. I understand that others (like you) take jokes seriously. Kind of dismisses the point of jokes, but I understand that audiences aren't all alike.
This is post-racial?
No, that joke is modernist, not post-modern. The stuff that I write aren't jokes, necessarily; they're skits. I like to make up standard jokes, but rarely have they ever been about race. I prefer to make fun of tragic situations, like 9/11 or something like that.
How can you possibly refuse to take a bit of responsibility for any cultural malignance towards other races when you perpetuate jokes like this?
Well, it's not that I refuse. I just don't see how I actually have. And even if that's the case, you're acting like the world is either black or white (lulz). But it isn't. Jokes are there. If racism exists, jokes aren't to blame.... it's hatred and ignorance. It's like claiming that violent video games led to the Columbine Massacre. And then when you retract that statement (cause you'll soon realize that that's a stupid thing to say), you'll say that they are at least partially responsible. It's a Red Herring.
Racist jokes create a false cause between genetics and a specific set of behaviors.
No they don't. The only jokes I've heard about genetics are about Gay Geneticists who love Designer Jeans. Now, if you're worried about that kind of joke provoking homophobia... eh, I guess there's no saving you from such paranoia.
With your joke, do you really think black girls act like that because they're black, or because they were raised in an environment that allows/encourages behavior like that?
Well, as a student of Psychology, I find that both genetics and environment are very important in causing behavior. Personally, I feel that environment is more of a contributor than genetics, but without the genetics none of it would be possible. Black girls act that way because their friends do it and so does, probably, their mothers and sisters. They mimic the behavior. However, the push to actually commit such acts are influenced by genetics. When who is very introverted for various genetic reasons is much less likely to do such a thing than one who is extroverted (at least, when it comes to expression of certain feelings). Culture has a great deal to do with it, but I don't actually see any of this as bad or good. I just see it as funny (but that's how I see things.)
And it's just as likely that a white person raised in an identical environment would display that behavior, too?
Well, if this person is white, it can't be an identical environment. His parents would be different, causing his genetics to be different. Now, if what you're saying is that if this person's skin happens to be white, but they're parents are black and everyone treated them as black, than sure, they'd probably do the same thing (but genetics is important). It's funny, because I was recently reading an article about the influence of genetics in someone's upbringing, and how while we all have relatively the same genes, we're still wired a bit differently that could cause drastic differences in how we react to the same situation. This is why behavioral psychology is sort of a past thing, now (just like Freudian Psychology). They're both still important, but they're not exact sciences and shouldn't be treated as such.
Yes, I have a problem with all of those things when they are used to hurt other people,
As do I, but they can also be used as self defense or as fun... that's what I do 8l
I have a problem with people who try to say that hurting people with any of those things is somehow progressive and will eventually lead to a world where no one gets hurt by them.
Good thing no one said that, cause clearly you're not the person to piss off (I mean, if jokes offend you, how insane would it be to piss you off with a legitimate statement, damn).
is likely to increase tolerance of other
instances of discrimination against the targeted group . . . for people who are
relatively high in prejudice toward the disparaged group
The fine print in most studies trying to correlate some form of entertainment with some form of unwanted behavior. The same has been found for violent video games. Most people can play violent video games and hardly be effected. There are a small amount of people who are, and those people are already a problem. This does not help show that violent video games or racist jokes are bad. It just shows how they can be used for bad... like science and drugs.
Your data suggest a moderate association of Female with Science and Male with Liberal Arts compared to Male with Science and Female with Liberal Arts.
Lol, I got the same thing.
I have no doubt that taking others would show some associations I wish I didn't have.
Oh please. No one's a villain here. It just shows how studies, no matter how cherished they are, can have quite a bit of bullshit behind them. I know I haven't made any sexist jokes (probably because it would just piss you off even more), but do you truly believe that our views on gender science are the same and that we're sexist in a similar fashion? Or is it that our brains (as I believe) are just computers that collect data and try as best it can to organize it. Associations aren't bigoted, they're task management. But maybe it's just my objective viewpoints getting in the way of this terrible reality you speak of.
I can't say, but probably.
Good thing your opinions don't get in the way of your science. Because it would be unfounded to say that I actually am.
The fact that you think it's funny to call babies pieces of shit because they're black doesn't help.
Well, that's not why the joke is funny, but I already understand how you interpret jokes.
I'm sure you don't think you're a racist
I don't think it because I've never viewed any race as superior to others (except that I believe that the human species is the most intellectually developed species, but as for race, it's a very tough classification...)
But to be more specific, I hold no human ethnicity over the other. I feel that they are all special in their own way and I've taken much interest in how people live their lives based on their cultural or ethnic or national background. Recently I've been fascinated by the Islamic culture and how much dedication and investment Muslims put into their faith. As much as I like to make fun of them (because, once again, I love to laugh and make others laugh), I find them fascinating and admirable. I can even imagine how I could have lived that culture and have been happy with it if I had been raised in that environment and mindset.
ignoring the environment created by racist humor
You mean... a laughing environment? Because racist humor does nothing but make people laugh. Sure, if you're a racist it can reinforce your beliefs... but for the rest of us, it's about being happy. 8)
so you can keep being edgy and not feel like a bad person.
As Dr. Manhattan once said "If only you could see the world as I do."
