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Debate Info

59
50
Yes No
Debate Score:109
Arguments:124
Total Votes:109
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 Yes (58)
 
 No (50)

Debate Creator

Deli_Subs(108) pic



Can Biblical Theism and Evolution Co-Exist?

Can they Co-Exist? Please Justify your reasoning and this is mainly a question for Christians so please no Atheistic Trolls please as I would like these people to focus on the topic directly.

Yes

Side Score: 59
VS.

No

Side Score: 50
2 points

Not only is the Bible filled with the fundamentals of science, but it is as much as 3,000 years ahead of its time.

The Bible's statements in most cases directly contradicted the science of the day in which they were made.

When modern scientific knowledge approaches reality, the divine accuracy of the scriptures is substantiated.

............... For example

Side: Yes
Atrag(5556) Disputed
1 point

And the parts of the Bible that were wrong?

Side: No

There are many Christians who believe in evolution. Its not a big deal since the bible contradicts itself every paragraph.

Side: Yes
Deli_Subs(108) Clarified
1 point

Please give an example of a Contradiction to support your claim.

Side: Yes
Jacobcoolguy(2428) Clarified
1 point

I googled "Contradictions in the bible" and here is a website that lists them.

http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

Does this suffice?

Side: Yes
1 point

I tend to agree that it can. From my limited understanding, we are thought to be created in God's image. Who is to say that we haven't evolved from the original design? Maybe God's image was a lesser form or what we consider to be a lesser form but is actually quite powerful? We know evolution exists, despite the common question "if man evolved from apes how come there are still apes", to which I point out this article: http://evolutionfaq.com/faq/if-man-evolved-ape-then-why-are-there-still-apes

I mean, we all have the same basic biochemical and genetic make-up, so instead of having limited thinking of our bodies being as God created them (as they are now), we could be thinking a little smaller like something with the genetic code. Certainly this is a wild thought but it's interesting none the less.

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Clarified
1 point

No, we have entered depravity. This is actually the time when God will speak loudly to and also through His people. And will reveal Himself clearer. I actually think God is waking up His people and plunging to final Harvest

So you have it actually backwards. Your painting God in your own image. He made us in His image. Some questions

What would it be like if God didn't really exist?

What if there was no Maximality, no Maximum Greatness, no Maximum Potential, and no Maximum Excellence to give form to abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence?

Who then created abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence?

What are the biological elements found in petri dish of nature are considered the building blocks of abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence that we see various degrees?

If we are absent of a Creator, then what elements, cells, organisms or particles, and compounds were initially deposited into the earth at the beginning of our world's conception to form the building blocks for abstract qualities? Or of conscience judgement? Or of superior intelligence?

Side: Yes
1 point

Im personally an atheist, but I used to be a christian and believe in evolution. You just have to believe that Genesis is a metaphor. So yes, they can.

Side: Yes
1 point

They have already co-existed for as long as the theory of evolution has existed. Furthermore, the only conflict is with those who take the Bible literally as word for word fact from the mouth of God. Christians who believe the Bible is inspired by instead of written word for word by God don't have a conflict. It's possible that a God who could make everything could have also created the process we observe and describe as evolution. And if that's the case then the fools who deny it would actually be denying the work of God himself.

Folks, it's folly to observe fossils and civilization remains that predate the Bible for centuries and then to deny such things ever existed because the stories from bronze age civilization have different event claims or time scale assertions.

Side: Yes
1 point

The Bible is actually complete understanding of science.

If we are absent of a Creator, then what elements, cells, organisms or particles, and compounds were initially deposited into the earth at the beginning of our world's conception to form the building blocks for abstract qualities? Or of conscience judgement? Or of superior intelligence?

If there are specific cells or elements are used as building blocks which later evolved to human abstract qualities, conscience judgement, or superior intelligence then wouldn't it be a reasonable scientific expectation as well as a logical conclusion that these same building blocks should also easily be seen throughout all living mammals, and also naturally present within our complex natural environment? Or at the very least a diverse samplings with a similar evolutionary outcome from using those same building blocks with a relevant degrees of differences from man down to the lowest form of mammal?

The projected evolutionary outcome given that all mammals evolved within the same environment, within the same conditions, with access to the same building blocks found in nature, and over the same amount of time, making evolution's projected outcome relevant in every degree of difference between all mammals.

Even natural elimination, natural thriving, and natural adaptations every mammal still should follow a course of adaptations that are in every way relevant in every degree of difference between all progressing mammals.

By all reasonable scientific thought either one of these two things should have occurred, but didn't occurr in evolution and adaptation.

Either making the degree of differences relevant by either

1 - reducing humanity to the relevant degree of differences in abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence found in comparison to other mammals or

2 - by raising some or even many other mammals by the relevant degree of differences in abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence to produce an evolutionary relevance expected in natural corse without an Intelligent Creator, showing a scientific probable expectation with no extreme degrees of differences with relevance between the highest functioning mammal to the lowest functioning mammal in abstract qualities, conscience judgement, or superior intelligence, right?

Side: Yes
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Bible is actually complete understanding of science.

False. The Bible contains 0 understanding of science. Biblical nut jobs use an understanding of science to pretend the Bible says something that it doesn't say.

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Actually your not correct!

Isaiah new the world was round. And also new about space

21 Do you not know? Have you not heard?

Has it not been declared to you from the beginning?

Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,

And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,

Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain

And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

And Eternity is Light and God is Light does that sound possibly scientific? What man had to catch up in year 2000,God's prophets already knew!

Would Omnipotence and Omnipresent Be Faster than Light ?

Time Travel ? God everywhere at once, is that the power of Light?

So Prophets of God used terms we know today to be an element of time, and even with potential to be in every time at once traveling back in time and forward in time.

Isnt it odd they didn't choose other tangible terms.

Jesus said I saw Satan fall from Heaven like lightening.

The Father Son Holy Spirit

One God, 3 persons could be moving through time from past present and future.

Jesus said No one knows the day or the hour except the Father in Heaven. Is it because of Light travel.

I think we don't know what we don't know, but if your closed you'll never know!

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Here are some more scriptures stating earth is round

Job 26 - sounds like a circle to me!

7 "He stretches out the north over empty space And hangs the earth on nothing. 8 "He wraps up the waters in His clouds, And the cloud does not burst under them. 9 "He obscures the face of the full moon And spreads His cloud over it. 10 "He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness.

Another about the earth is round

Proverbs 8

12 "I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And I find knowledge and discretion. 13 "The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate. 14 "Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine. 15 "By me kings reign, And rulers decree justice. 16 "By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge rightly. 17 "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me. 18 "Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness. 19 "My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield better than choicest silver. 20 "I walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, 21 To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. 22 "The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23 "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. 24 "When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. 25 "Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; 26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. 27 "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, 28 When He made firm the skies above , When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; *30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, 31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

Side: Yes
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

The Bible never contradicts true science, and clearly taught many facts of nature which it took ignorant "scientists" thousands of years to figure out. The fact that the Bible is always in line with true science is one of the proofs of it being the word of God who created nature which can be scientifically observed and manipulated through applied science. .

Side: Yes
1 point

It would not, and does not make any scientific sense to consider an evolution of living creatures where there are exclusive qualities of conscience judgement and superior intelligence limited exclusively to humanity!

It's not a logical hypothesis to conclude that cells evolving chose to produce an order of natural selection, of only one mammal with abstract qualities, conscience judgement and superior intelligence?

I can see an evolution to an order of dominance, having a highest forms and a lowest form of mammals, like we do. That's a logical expectation, and should be expected if you are scientific proving evolution.

But the degree of difference to this proportion had to be accepted by a rational scientific group of millions of people regardless if it's as illogical as believing in unicorns! This theory of scientific outcome from evolution is far from any degree of logic!

Where is the closest abstract qualities, conscience judgement, and superior intelligence to humanity with a relevant degree of differences mammal to other mammals ?

Side: Yes
1 point

Can you actually understand the people whose arguments you steal?

Side: Yes
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

I guess I must if I put an entire direction to it from another perspective

The question is do you?

Side: No
1 point

The Felidae family, I crudely will compare a sampling in the Felidae (cat) family, big and small. They are similar in every way, and exist in only slight degrees of each animals unique different qualities. But in every way lions, tigers, jaguars, leopards, pumas, cheetahs, bob cats, and house cats are similar not one Felidae has a unique design of abstract qualities and not one of the Felidae species has a unique degree of superiority of intellegence to any extreme degree of difference one to another.

The Canadae family, again there are similar progressive degrees but they are similar in every way, and exist in only slight degrees of differences. Each Canadae has unique different qualities, but are relative in every way. Comparing a random selection of Canadae species - dogs, wolves, foxes, coyotes, and jackals, like the Felidae not one Canadae species has a unique design of abstract qualities. And not one of the Canadae species has a unique degree of superiority of intellegence to any extreme degree of difference one to another.

There is only one classification of family in all of natural ordering and classifications that claim one species in the same family has unique qualities of an extreme degree of difference of one to MANY others in the same family!

So not only are the extreme difference marginalized through poor scientific classification, all others within the family classification minus the one and only one with an extreme degree of differences in BOTH the presence of abstract qualities AND incomparable degree of superiority in intelligence, the entire rest of the family follow the same degree of differences found in the other family examples I used, Felidae and Canidae.

If the degree in families are all relative except one, what does that logically assent between the comparisons?

If all animals evolved, each having a relatively equal degrees of differences in intellegence one to another, and all without abstract qualities shown exceeding their species and increasing over time within their species, or presenting any abnormalities showing any extremes in degrees of differences from one mammal to another mammal, or within a family classification between one species to another species then isn't it a simply fundamental logical conclusion that homo sapiens are completely unique to all other mammals including primates?

Many scientific theories elevate animal kingdom to human intelligence and even give abstract qualities. But ridiculous comparisons aren't proving anything by science, they are masking science with ridiculous comparisons!

Let's all act like the intellegent people we seem to be, and let science be logical, even if it tell us something we'd rather not know!

We should be able to follow a logical process of elimination after comparing every mammal one to another. All mammals show a reasonable and a rational degree of differences relative to all mammals in general.

Even the dolphin, and man's most intelligent top dog best friend are both relative to all other mammals and with natural abilities and intelligence within the same relative degree of difference between all the other mammals!

The house cat plays with string and purrs, the dog is loyal, and dolphins communicate and seem to have compassion on people who are in danger at sea. But all these qualities are far from abstract qualities found in humanity.

These cute animal favorites are a design of a Creator who made joy naturally present in nature.These fun qualities are a matter of selective instinct, not abstract qualities, and NOT of selective design, exclusive in every degree of extreme difference of any mammal to another mammal.

No mammals in all classifications and families has any exclusive difference, to any extreme degree except one. And no mammals except one is unique in every way beyond basic biological function except one. Only one mammal extremely irrelevant in every way to extreme degrees of difference one mammal to all mammals in superiority of intellegence, and in abstract qualities. And that is found in humanity.

The chaos of creation through evolution would have to show a chain of order that gives simple cells and organisms an ability and a thought to purposely create and design each independently and also in cooperative effort with specific planned design and intelligent design accomplished through the chaotic order of random assemblies through a random method of evolution. With random biological components assembling, and reassembling many times over with a specific end goal of each completed species.

Organisms would have to follow a logical sequence and intelligently place natural building blocks of biological substances of every level from basic instinct to conscience judgement to superior intellegence. And then not share any of those same cells spread throughout the entire world to use in the completion of any other species.

I'm not a rocket scientist but that sounds pretty unscientific!

Evolving creation in intelligent order requires intellegent assembly at the bare minimum.

What is the highest intelligent cell in existence? Because that must be the Maximality of Maximum Excellence. Find that cell, and we can build everthing we see in nature too.

and in in just one of all creatures evolved, without at least coming close to at least 1 other, but more likely many another species that are comprable to the same comprable intelligence!

building blocks of chaos produce intelligent design and those building blocks of conscience judgement should be profusely and liberally and at comparable degrees throughout all nature and visibly tangible in many creatures, and NOT exclusively only to the human quality, right?

What are the chemical compounds when broken down of fairness, truth and justice, of honor, or even dishonor?

Which molecules decide disgrace or lies, or even put standards of every degrees on crimes? What are the chemical compounds that establish a biological sequence needed for love and loyalty, hate, and betrayal?

Without any basis of standards derived from qualities of a Maximality, then why does conscience judgement in humanity house qualities beyond our basic biology?

Even if mental evolution leads to advanced science and technology of every kind as avanced intellect from biology evolves, what neurons in biology builds the basics of conscience judgement?

Do wolves hold court to decide if hunting practices are carried out according to an acceptable standards? Do gorillas vote for their leaders? Do lions decide on matters of justice and share their prey among the other prides out of compassion? Do bulls compete on the basis of charisma and likeability and appeal when mating? If all creatures are limited to basic natural instincts then why does conscience judgement exist at all?

So even if we have an intellectual Maximal Greatness, even that basically should dictate near equals in the same world from the same original building blocks. Where we incubated differently than a bear? Was the peri dish of nature that built man in a separate environment? If not then where are creatures equal to us in many ways, greater than us in some ways, and just below us in other ways?

Shouldn't all of creation have a relative degree of likeness in at least a likeness to our species? Don't we have gradual degrees of differences in like kinds in every species?

In nature we have many kinds found in the species of the cat family. from the house cat to the lion. But you don't only have the lion and the house cat.

and we have qualities of Maximality?

There is no doubt there is a God

Side: Yes
1 point

and we have qualities of Maximality?

There is no doubt there is a God, because these qualities plain and simply are not building blocks in every living thing, so they either don't exist in any living thing, or they potentially exist in every living thing. If they do not exist in every living thing, then the only logical conclusion is that Maximality exists, and has established qualities according to His own Maximality.

It is illogical to consider that even if complicated forms of life evolved from nothing but a spark of energy, came to being out of nothing, that only 1 form of all that life that came forth through that chaos would hold an exclusivity to conscience judgement in even the smallest of matters, let alone the broad matters of conscience judgement. This is absolute proof there is either dna or matter that can produce these qualities in humanity, and also outside of humanity. Other animals absolutely also must produce evidence of conscience judgement or there is no argument if there is a Maximality. The only argument that can follow that is not if there is a Maximality, but who is the Maximality!

If there is no basis for Conscience without a Maximality to define and establish a standard of conscience, then how does conscience judgement exist in the first place? And an even more disturbing question, is why and how then is it exclusive to ONLY 1 species?

So then why would conscience judgement exist among humanity, yet NOT exist in any other living thing produced in the same possible world togethet? Shouldn't we at least see many degrees of conscience judgement throughout nature that at least is comparable to conscience judgement found in humanity?

Wouldn't it make sense that if conscience judgement was evolved, that there would be further samplings of conscience judgement in the same possible world, living together?

The rule of logic leading to Maximum Greatness, by standards of Maximum Excellence is as follows.

Qualities pertaining to Maximum Excellence in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness is determined by the highest possible Evolution in any and every possible world.

Maximum Excellence is point of reference, and Maximum Greatness is point of reference!

Side: Yes
1 point

Maximum Excellence is point of reference, and Maximum Greatness is point of reference!

1 Maximum Greatness exists in any and every possible world.

2 Maximum Excellence exists in every possible way relative to the greatest or at the very least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.

3 If any of the possible worlds consists of only ants and bugs, then Maximum Excellence is whatever qualities are necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in that possible world.

4 So Maximum Excellence is relative to the greater or at least minimum applications necessary to achieve highest evolution of Maximum Greatness for any and all possible world.

5 Maximum Excellence entails the application of qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness relative to any and every possible world.

6 There exists a Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.

7 Maximum Excellence as Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection are relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in every possible world.

8 What is impossible in one possible world, may be be possible in other possible worlds.

9 What is possible in one possible world may be impossible in another possible world.

10 The proposition, there exists an Omnicient, Omnipotent, and Morally Perfect Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in an actual possible world.

11 So the conclusion is there must be a Maximum Excellent Being in any and every possible world that has the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection relevant to the acievement of highest possible evolution in Maximum Greatness in that actual possible world .

12 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified

13 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.

14 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!

15 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!

16 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!

17 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!

18 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.

Side: Yes
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Let's count all the ways this argument is wrong.

1. Argument 1 is begging the question. You are starting with a premise that you need to prove and claiming it is true.

2. This maximal excellence term is undefined. The term used in argument 2 defines the maximum excellence that the world can handle which means you are begging the question again since you are assuming a maximal excellence that may not exist.

3. Argument 3 is meaningless.

4. Argument 4 is just repeating argument 2.

5. Argument 5 is false. The maximal excellence in one world may not be enough to represent the maximal excellence in another world.

6. Argument number 7 describes qualities that don't have to be included in a being of maximal excellence.

7. Arguments 8 and 9 are meaningless.

So, 7 problems. Congratulations.

Side: No
1 point

I wanted to share this with you.

I don't know if maybe God will show you. I hope the things I shared made clear sense. I do believe we are approaching end times.

And maybe He will show you and you will be a child of light too.

Jesus said straight is the way that leads to life, few find it. And to destruction is a highway, many find that way. 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Isaiah 40

He sits on top of the CIRCLE of the earth, LOOKING DOWN at men looking like grasshoppers is

This is a circle, as in our world. It is hung in the sky, And God is sitting on top looking down, NOT at a flat plain circle. If it were flat, even a flat circle then how would GOD then sit on top, and see all of the contents of the world before Him?

Then how He see us as one would see from far up into the sky looking down, like in a plane. We appear small as grasshoppers.

Now God's vision is also God's vision not limited to 20/20.

So He can see as clearly as light Himself. But it shows knowledge of this prophet in the ancient writings by prophets! They saw a bigger picture, hands down!

The prophets never flew to the sky to come up with this point of reference, as it is so clearly described in Isaiah.

Now, they were prophetically directing the people in truth principles, and not science!

So they werent teaching the world was round, people may have not have even grasped that after reading it 1000s of times! They got the message God was sending, He is bigger than us, His mind is unreachable. Yet the prophet saw this... circle and a glimpse of how God sees.

God wasn't teaching them the world is round. But clearly the prophet still used actual scientific principals to describe God as All Powerful and All Knowing.

The point to them was simply that, but for us knowledge "will increase" that is said in Daniel!

So now we actually know even more about this verse because of principals of science. But STILL without the Spirit Helper opening our eyes, it's meaningless no matter how much knowledge we have today!! We can be blind with all the knowledge of Eternity right in our hands! Because the Spirit Helper shows us all things. Not knowledge or science!

Yet these prophets forethought in even scientific terms, because what they saw wasnt understood through science, it was understood through experience! Like planting in spring, they didn't understand it by science, just by experience.

Side: Yes
1 point

For the prophet to think of God as looking down from that hight, on top of a round world, and we look like grasshoppers is experiencing advanced science, without any understanding of this science.

They may not have had a Hebrew equivalent for some "scientific words" but they are obvious by their experience!

If you take a minute to think about details of appearances in the Bible of all Heavenly beings in the Bible, even the Virgin Conception, even Satan falling from Heaven "like lightening," and "oh morning star, Lucifer," the Heavenly appearances always appear in a beam of light!!!

Please listen to my explanation before shutting off thought.

Jesus was fully God and fully man. The seed of promise through line of David.

Mary wasn't in the line of David.

Joseph was. And seed of promise was seed of God not Joseph!

And God commanded Him to stay with Mary and raise the child, the Seed of Promise.

The seed of God put into a Virgin, who was simply a righteous daughter ultimately dependent from Adam and Eve.

The seed of promise, is God's contribution to Mary's Immaculate Conception. Prophets saw ahead and called the future Messiah, Immanuel, meaning GOD WITH US! The term used is God with us on Earth, you can't contain pure Light, this miracle is Pure Light in the Son of man!

God's seed, His direct seed was placed into a daughter of man!

The scriptures used the best words available, and they had different words for the same word to give the clarity in the best terms available.

The the word for light used here in this verse from John:

Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."

In some of the verses the prophets in Old and New Testament chose to use this specific original term for "Light". They had some other words describing light, like glowing or shining, but they chose to use rays and beams for Light in this verse and many other verses.

Here is the words definition used in this verse: "to shine or make manifest especially by rays"

Verse from John:

Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life." Both of these words for light are light rays or beams!

So John in this verse chose to use rays or beams of light over another word describing light such as glow or illuminate.

So Jesus is saying "I Am rays, beams of light"

John 8:12

Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays) the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays) of life."

Eternal Life?? Time is neutral, Eternal, it stands still in a degree and time speed can go backward in time or forward in time. Light has no time limits.

Thoughts ....

God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,... Heavenly Bodies, Angels, Even Omnipotence and Omniscience, even the seeing and understanding of prophets SEEING a piece of the future and even Satan's fall from Heaven, these are described as movements of light, and living in the speed of light!

Jesus says Abiding in Him, as He in the Father, and us in Him, Scripture says walk as "children of the Light"

God knowing all things, the Father and showing the Son all things, all knowing, all prophesies, them even Enoch walked with God and God simply took him, did God beam Him up through the speed of light....?

Scientific terms were completely unknown till modern times... yet the concepts are advanced to year 2016 and even beyond 2016 science. Prophets understood every word as they experienced light in a way we can't but science proves if we could, we would!

God's light reaches through the entire space of time! The eternal past, the beginning of our days, today, tomorrow, to the end, and then beyond the end, through the eternal future!

Why would these prophets choose light as the term to describe Eternity, and an Eternal God?? They did not physically understand the properties of Light, yet they understood the experiences of the properties of Light!

Side: Yes
1 point

In REVELATIONS 22: verse 5 -

5 "And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever."

New Jerusalem is an Eternity with no end, and the light of the Sun is too small. God Himself is greater LIGHT than the Sun.

HE Himself is the light that lights eternity!

Now why would they say that? The Sun is perfectly adequate to light, in their primitive knowledge they may have prophetically understood light by experience, not by data!

I get this, because I have experienced some of God's movement in this way showing me things.

The only way I can describe the experience is, Like Living Water rushing forth, in my mind and coming out of my being. Which is actually exactly how Jesus described it.

Sometimes I have one thing being shown by the Helper, The Holy Spirit Jesus promised to leave with us, and no matter if I hadn't read those scriptures in 30 years, they flow together in a moments time, like they are flowing all at once, with so much detail I can see it, but I almost can't grab any of it, but even the water left as dampness on my hand is Living Water. And is like looking at a glimpse into Eternity.

I can see, how the Bible says Satan took Jesus up to tempt Him before being crucified. Scripture says, and Satan in a moment showed Him all the kingdoms of the world, Lucifer was an angel of light, Lucifer understands light properties. And Lucifer still can appear as an angel of light!

I understand seeing content like that in "a moment"

I've experienced God show me things in that bazarr way.

We can briefly glimpse what and how God showed prophets what He showed them. He did it through Light. He is Pure Light!

When He spoke to them He showed them the future through the speed of light. For the moments of prophesy, they were in that ray of light to that time of prophesy God was showing them!

Prophets sometimes saw it in part, or through a haze, and sometimes clear AS DAY! Sometimes their minds were hazy at times clear, depending on God's time to reveal and what He was revealing at the moment to that prophet.

But these individuals saw prophesy, and not just future prophesy. They saw creation, they saw Satan cast to the earth, they saw present and God's word there, and they saw future all the way to the New Jerusalem with no sun yet no darkness, all light without sun, and Eternal - no time! The past, we see in Genesis, through time into the future we see in Revelations!

We were with Jesus from the beginning, and He knows the children of light, because He is light!

And He fully knows tomorrow as He knows yesterday!

And light doesn't limit Him at all because light has no time, nor time limitations!

We were with Him from the beginning because He is pure Light! And pure Light can be in the past present and future all at once.

And if you think of the Trinity. Let us make man in Our image.

All 3 were involved in creation!

All 3 can be in all 3 times periods all at once, there is no end to His light, "the darkness can't consume Him. We no that even a beam of light in dark matter is lost forever.

Well isn't Satan a beam of light lost forever?

I think these spiritual truths are truths to be known to children of light. The god of this world has blinded everyone else's eyes because even scientifically understanding light people are still consumed by darkness and can't see the Light, pure Light. God's Light.

We see dimly but in a twinkling of an eye we see more.

What happens in a twinkling of an eye?? Think of a camera.

An advanced highest quality camera! We can make movies throw energy into high speed Internet, but we can only glimpse in the twinkling to capture a fractio of a fraction of a .... fractions x fractions.... a twinkling of the speed of Pure Light!

Side: Yes
1 point

In line with LIGHT in my previous posts

40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;

43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

The Mystery of Resurrection

50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, *

then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Side: Yes
1 point

Can they co-exist and is it possible to co-exist are two separate things. If Christians could accept that their Bible - especially the book of Genesis - was never meant to be a scientific document; that Darwin and Moses never had coffee together, then yes, it could be possible. That said, I do not believe it is possible for all Christians to accept this, so the possibility of it co-existing is not likely.

Side: Yes
1 point

NO .... not really ... the Battle for the beginning

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Everyone knows that evolutionists and creationists dispute how the universe began. And regardless of which side of the battle line you’re on, most people harbor strong feelings about the issue of origins.

Yet there are a host of important questions at the core of the battle that relatively few in either camp have bothered to ask—much less answer:

Why is the issue of origins so universally controversial?

How can creationists support biblical claims that so obviously seem to contradict modern science?

Whose side of the argument does scientific evidence support?

What roles should science and the Bible play in a person’s beliefs about the physical universe?

With the curiosity of a student and the precision of a veteran Bible teacher, John MacArthur takes you to the heart of the battle in his study The Battle for the Beginning. Based on an in-depth examination of Genesis chapter 1, The Battle for the Beginning takes you on an instructive, fascinating journey into the Bible’s own claims about creation, evolution, and the vital issues at stake.

Side: No
Deli_Subs(108) Disputed
1 point

I would have to disagree with the second question about Creationism contradicting modern science. Both Creationists and Evolutionists use and agree on the observational science however their differing worldviews cause them to interpret the science differently.

Side: Yes
sylynn(626) Disputed
1 point

I will disagree because the question is not can creationism and evolution co-exist, rather biblical theism. I stated this already in a standalone answer, but just to reiterate, if Christians can accept the Bible was never intended to be a scientific document, then yes, I do believe they can co-exist. Is it likely? I think so. No, you will never have 100% of Christians to think this, but many already do. Until I became an atheist I thought this way.

Side: Yes
1 point

Depending on what is meant by Evolution the answer varies. If you mean the Evolution that we see today (micro changes that occur due to Natural Selection and Mutations) than yes it can. If you mean Darwinian Evolution, Neo-Darwinian Evolution, or Modern Day Evolutionary Theory than no they cannot exist together because they theorize and predict different things. For example: Evolution predicts the Origin Of Life occurred between 3-3.8 billion years ago. The Biblical Theism claims that a Global Flood occurred between 2350 BCE-2349 BCE. Or another example Evolution claims that a meteor strike during the Late-Cretaceous Period caused the Dinosaurs to mostly be extinct and caused an Ice Age that finished them off. Biblical Theism claims that God created the Universe in 6 Days (I know some will disagree with me on this). These views if examined are worlds apart from co-existing.

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

I think you may be missing some elements. That is a traditional read of everything, most people learn the stories and don't head in to see for themselves.

As a traditional read, as basic values it has a message, then it has Eternal depth also. So maybe this is version in the Bernstein Bible I read my granddaughter at night. But you shouldn't limit God by your limited knowledge. Its actually an amazing thing, I can look over something in the Bible and the Words run like Water and I can see for a few miles into Eternity. And you pick it up and there's nothing but words.

I hope someday you experience that. There is no end to the depth of Wisdom. God is undeniable!

Side: Yes
1 point

The Christian Bible, at least the Old Testament or what the Jews call their Torah, CANNOT coincide with the science and fact of Evolution. Since it has a fantasy book called genesis which, in addition to having talking snakes and a hapless god who has to ask "where are you?" advocates a sis-day creation. (One in which, to add to its absurdity, this idiot god creates plants before the sun!)

Now then..................The New Testament IS sort of capable of coinciding with science, so long as one forgets that the main character, this rabbi cum carpenter cum political insurrectionist named Yeshua believed in the Torah.

If one is just a Christian in the sense that he tries to learn and follow the teachings of Jesus, but knows--as do all rational people--that Evolution is TRUE--well, then we will let him into our circle of Science and Knowledge. Maybe.

There also is a school of thought called Theistic Evolution, in which the believers think that Evolution DID occur as we materialist/atheist Biologists say it did, but that it was guided by god.

This is better than an OT Creationist view, to be sure, but it is still misguided and wrong.

Intelligent Design (ID) is simply the Theists' attempt to not lost ALL face--as they have been doing for decades--and throw a bit of psuedo science into their belief system and try to call it real science.

The vast majority of scientists disdain ID, knowing what that it is tantamount to putting a pair of fake specs on a pic and trying yo make him look learned.

LOL.

SS

Side: No
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

The Bible is the truest text ever written.

If you have eyes to see it, and a heart to understand it. It has no contradictions and the depth of it. It's the path of great wisdom. With oracles spoken with a few simple texts.

I read it and it's fluid. Literally like Water!

Jesus said come to the Living Water. I've experienced that in that book. Oh my God such depth!

You are saddlly mistaken about the Bible!

Isaiah 40

21 Do you not know? Have you not heard?

Has it not been declared to you from the beginning?

Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,

And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,

Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain

And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

From Genesis to Revelations, many times Eternity is spoken of, and many timed it is referred to as LIGHT, God Himself as PURE LIGHT.

What is time goes by in a beam of light? Eternity equals Light!

And in the above text in Isaiah 40 says He sits above the circle of the earth.

These are 2 scientific facts.

Side: Yes
1 point

If Evolution existed why is it that apes are still in zoos ?

Side: No
SlapShot(2608) Clarified
1 point

There are far more apes in the wild than in zoos.

But to answer your question, apes are still around, of course. Why shouldn't they be? We did not evolve from them, and evolution does not claim we did.

The fact you don't even know this very simple and basic fact on the elementary tenets of the Evolutionary process just proved you have no business denying it. Since you do not understand it at all.

Side: Yes
outlaw60(15367) Disputed
1 point

Don't you Progressives say we evolved from apes ? So why is it there are still apes ?

Side: Yes
1 point

There are many highly educated and respected Christians who believe in theistic evolution, but it is not Biblical. Can evolution and Biblical Theism Co-exist? what does that mean? lies exist, the truth exists, so they co-exist. Evolution or millions or Billibionions of thrillions of years is not in the Bible except in eternity past before God created anything and in eternity future after evil is forever confined in the Lake of Fire.

Side: No
1 point

Evolution is completely unbiblical. Some Christians (at least they claim to be Christians and in many cases they do seem to be true Christians) make the mistake of not believing God spoke all creatures into existence and choose rather to compromise with ungodly people who believe in evolution.

Side: No
1 point

The Christian Bible, at least the Old Testament or what the Jews call their Torah, CANNOT coincide with the science and fact of Evolution. Since it has a fantasy book called genesis which, in addition to having talking snakes and a hapless god who has to ask "where are you?" advocates a sis-day creation. (One in which, to add to its absurdity, this idiot god creates plants before the sun!)

Now then..................The New Testament IS sort of capable of coinciding with science, so long as one forgets that the main character, this rabbi cum carpenter cum political insurrectionist named Yeshua believed in the Torah.

If one is just a Christian in the sense that he tries to learn and follow the teachings of Jesus, but knows--as do all rational people--that Evolution is TRUE--well, then we will let him into our circle of Science and Knowledge. Maybe.

There also is a school of thought called Theistic Evolution, in which the believers think that Evolution DID occur as we materialist/atheist Biologists say it did, but that it was guided by god.

This is better than an OT Creationist view, to be sure, but it is still misguided and wrong.

Intelligent Design (ID) is simply the Theists' attempt to not lost ALL face--as they have been doing for decades--and throw a bit of psuedo science into their belief system and try to call it real science.

The vast majority of scientists disdain ID, knowing what that it is tantamount to putting a pair of fake specs on a pic and trying yo make him look learned.

LOL.

SS

Side: No