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Debate Info

104
88
YES NO
Debate Score:192
Arguments:146
Total Votes:216
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Argument Ratio

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 YES (69)
 
 NO (76)

Debate Creator

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Can a person be a true Christian and believe in evolution?

Is this possible or contradictory?

YES

Side Score: 104
VS.

NO

Side Score: 88

I think what you are talking about is Theistic Evolution, and there are many Christians who subscribe to it.

Notable Christian evolutionary biologists include Martin Nowak and Ken Miller.

"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution" - Theodosius Dobzhansky (Geneticist, Evolutionary Biologist and Eastern Orthadox Christian)

Side: yes
5 points

I think andsoccer basically said it all. Theistic Evolution, the believe that evolution is influenced by God or a divine being. That's a great example of being a true Christian and still believing in evolution.

There is also the fact that not every Christian has to believe every word from the Bible verbatim, but that's a different story.

Side: yes
2 points

life is bieng created with an external touch......then it is sure that is god..!

Side: yes
3 points

I don't know what constitutes as a "true Christian" since there is no universal agreement among and between differing denominations. I'll leave that for the theists to figure out. I do, however, know a few Christians who actually believe in evolution.

Side: yes
2 points

I am too hurried to explain, but Catholicism.

I rest my case.

I now have time, check below the dispute on my argument to see!

Side: yes
PungSviti(552) Disputed
2 points

You will have to explain more when you have time

It is true that the Catholic church made some vague remark about how God could have created complex organisms through evolution (sort of like the ghost in the machine)

But that is just them bending their own rules in my opnion. Catholic priests bend rules at least as much as they get small boys to bend over for them

Side: No
3 points

Why yes that is the case, when I last checked in on the Catholic church their official stance was along the lines of Old Earth Creationism^1 (not a source, merely Wikipedia on the subject). As far as my experience goes with catholics is that they are the most hard-lined of Christians.

The Vatican agrees with the big bang, but think that nothing before that besides god, existed in their eyes it PROVES he exists.^2 (also covers their view on evolution)

^1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism

^2 http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/vaticanview.html

Side: yes
2 points

biology connot even define life....then how then can argue about the evelution?........

Side: yes
JayAr(182) Disputed
3 points

Can not

Biology defines life along the lines as this... (From a textbook I have laying around on these sorts of things) EDIT: Wikipedia apparently uses the same definition as my textbook.

Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.

Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.

Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.

Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.

Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.

Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and by chemotaxis.

Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.

Side: No
1 point

wow iamindebate, you just got hit by a

C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!!!

Side: No

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

--Albert Einstein

Science has provided many answers in the pursuit of knowledge, yet science is only created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding where faith must accompany knowledge and rational whereas religion has many faults throughout history due to the what little knowledge obtained, and science has provided to fill in these gaps and amend faith.

Side: yes
prophetman(28) Disputed
1 point

If you believe in evolution you have to have faith in that because there is no proof in it there is no scientific facts in it and there is no truth in it so you are also relying on faith.. Dr.Kent Hovind has an offer out for $250,000 if anyone can give absolute 100% proof that evolution is a fact. Noone can provide him that evidence. If you think you can then send your information to his ministry and he will prove it wrong if not I will gladly match his offer and pay you myself!

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
1 point

The scientific process eliminates faith, by design. You don't need faith, because the scientific process relies on a series of steps of validation.

Kent Hovind is a con man. He purchased his unaccredited degree from a diploma mill, he is not a doctor, never was. He makes a reputation out of deceiving people. This is why he is sitting behind bars for Tax evasion.

Side: yes

By Christianity's core ideals itself we believe that every thing in this universe was created by the grace of god. Now we, as a developed species have discovered our history and the big bang etc. etc but none of that could have occurred with out a higher power. By your own arguments we have to observe that there is no way adam and eve ever existed and the closest thing to a miracle is gods creation of our pathetic planet in the first place

Side: yes
1 point

How else would you explain how chickens have the same bone structure as the t-Rex? I believe that God created evolution and everything else along those lines

Side: yes
Genesis1vs1(31) Disputed
1 point

You refer to bone structure as being similar, let me ask you could that mean that dinosaurs evolved into birds which is a common evolutionary idea. Yet in the millions of years of evolution from dinosaurs to birds we don't have one "transitional" form. Evolution is a long slow process which supposedly has many transitions. Yet we can not find any in the fossil record. All we see is horses have been horses, birds have been birds, and everything else the same. That no evolving has led to an increase in genetic information. Only mutations that lose certain genetic traits. This is a downgrade not "evolution".

Side: No
1 point

I dont think that the whole creation story was meant to tell us the exact science of the creation of the world. Like we know from hard evidence that the world was not created in six literal days. Even the bible does not refer to a day as 24 hours.

Side: yes
prophetman(28) Disputed
0 points

There is no evidence that the world is millions of years old, if so what is the evidence? you only have mans opinions crappy one at that! The bible does say that God created the world in 6 literal 24 hour days, it says he created the light and divided it from the darkness and the darkness is night and the light is day that tells that one day is 24 hours 12 hours of night and 12 hours of day! Its been that way since he created it and its still that way now! If you say you believe in God and the bible how can you believe he can create everything and not be able to do it in the time he said he did? You believe people come from apes but God said he created man, and beast he never said he created a monkey and waited 10 billion years till he turned into a man!

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
2 points

There is no evidence that the world is millions of years old.

You're right. But we do have evidence that it is billions of years old.

Following the scientific revolution and the development of radiometric age dating, measurements of lead in uranium-rich minerals showed that some were in excess of a billion years old. The oldest such minerals analyzed to date – small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia – are at least 4.404 billion years old.

Side: yes
1 point

Obviously! If civilisation is to ever move forward in a productive direction, science and religion must march together. There's science in religion, and religion and science. True, they are considered quite opposing in nature, but many great scientists like Einstein, Newton and Da Vinci believed in God, and many prophets and saints encouraged scientific thought. Evolution is a widely accepted theory, and there's nothing wrong with a person believing in God also propagating scientific ideas.

Side: yes
1 point

If being a true Christian entails denying reality in favor of the Bible, then I suppose not.

If being a true Christian can mean accepting facts and still maintaining faith, then there is no reason why not.

Side: yes
4 points

A true Christian is one who believes in the Bible, Christ, and God. Seeing as how the Bible does not endorse evolution - theistic or otherwise - then it is most logical to assume that, based on the supplied definition of a 'true Christian', he cannot also believe in evolution.

Theistic evolution is as convoluted a belief as 'Positive Christianity'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

Side: No
PungSviti(552) Disputed
2 points

Define for me "theistic evolutionist"

Does it mean; one who belives God created complex organisms through evolution??

Side: yes
TERMINATOR(6779) Disputed
2 points

One who is of the belief that God guided the process of evolution from amoeba to the current spectrum of living organisms.

Side: No
shuvit(23) Disputed
2 points

Theistic evolution is the doctrine that monkeys evolved from theists.

Side: No
1 point

Hypocrisy: complaining time and time again that atheists down-vote your arguments, and yet down-voting an argument without even giving a reason why.

Considering the fact that the Catholic church has accepted evolution and the Catholic church has over 1 billion followers, I'd say that you're leaving out quite a few people who consider themselves true Christians. The bible also doesn't mention gravity, modern medicine, quantum mechanics, or any of the other discoveries of the past couple hundred years, but I'd say that Christianity is in trouble if it requires the rejection of these as well.

Creationism is mostly a phenomenon of evangelical Christians, and rejection of science isn't really useful to anyone.

Also...Nazis? Really? Is that how low you've sunk that you are willing to just jump to comparing Christians who accept a proven scientific theory to Nazis?

Seriously.

Side: yes
TERMINATOR(6779) Disputed
1 point

Hypocrisy: complaining time and time again that atheists down-vote your arguments, and yet down-voting an argument without even giving a reason why.

When? Where?

I get it all the time; get used to it.

Considering the fact that the Catholic church has accepted evolution and the Catholic church has over 1 billion followers

Just because the Catholic Church has altered their dogma does not mean that each individual Catholic will.

, I'd say that you're leaving out quite a few people who consider themselves true Christians.

Quite a few do. However, if you read my argument carefully, you'll see that I account for that.

Creationism is mostly a phenomenon of evangelical Christians, and rejection of science isn't really useful to anyone.

I don't reject science for the sake of it being irreligious, rather I reject science because I am a fallibilist. I reject most everything else as well.

Also...Nazis? Really? Is that how low you've sunk that you are willing to just jump to comparing Christians who accept a proven scientific theory to Nazis?

I said that theistic evolution is as convoluted as Positive Christianity. Positive Christianity made false claims about the Bible in a similar manner as theistic evolution does.

Side: No
aveskde(1935) Disputed
1 point

Considering the fact that the Catholic church has accepted evolution and the Catholic church has over 1 billion followers, I'd say that you're leaving out quite a few people who consider themselves true Christians.

They may consider themselves true Christians but that doesn't mean anything. The religious text is about biblical consistency, not personal freedom. If you centre your religion around only picking up the convenient parts of the religious text, then you aren't "true" at all.

Creationism is mostly a phenomenon of evangelical Christians, and rejection of science isn't really useful to anyone.

The thing about them is that even though they are crazy for believing in faith healing, witches and a 6000 year old earth, they are still a whole lot more biblical than many of the other sects.

Creationism is all there in the bible.

Side: No
xyze(39) Disputed
1 point

The bible doesn't endorse Electromagnetism or relativity either.

So true Christians can't believe in anything not stated in the bible?

Side: yes
2 points

Don't see how that could be. That is if "a true Christian" means believing in a God that created all complexities in the universe.

In Evolution, complexity arises from more simple platforms interacting with each other (chemically or physically)

Side: No
2 points

What is a true Christian. If by that you mean someone that believes in the literal truth of the bible then it is obvious that the bible and evolutionary theory do not mix.

Side: No
1 point

well first we probably would have to define what a true Christian IS, since there are many variations of Christianity if I'm not mistaken, i believe there was something on the Narzoreans or ebionites, I'm not well versed on the subject and the info Ive looked at may be a bit off

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/ebionites.html

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_historical.html#Original

but if were talking about the original Christians being the true Christians, then no, the idea of evolution wasn't around at the time, so it would be impossible. but I'm not sure about a lot of the information I'm using.

Side: No
1 point

I hate to agree with the fundies and charlatans like Ken Ham, but if you're a liberal, progressive Christian then you're not a "true" Christian because you've disobeyed so much of it. It also means you must believe in a flat earth that is stationary, covered in a dome with god in his throne at the top, with windows in the sky that let in rain, and four corners on the disk-like earth corresponding to cardinal directions which terminate in gates that let in all the forms of weather. Under the earth there is nothingness, and it is stationary, with the universe surrounding it. The earth is probably less than 10000 years old, and was created in six days.

That's part of the dogma you must believe in to call yourself a true Christian. Sorry, but those are the rules.

Good thing Christianity is false.

Side: No
1 point

No, you can't. Genesis is clear. It states that God created every being according to its kind. If said sentence was missing, one could wager for the theistic evolution hypothesis, but the sentence is there. One has to willingly ignore it to accept evolution.

Supporting Evidence: Genesis 1:11-12, 21, 24 (www.biblegateway.com)
Side: No
aveskde(1935) Disputed
0 points

No, you can't. Genesis is clear. It states that God created every being according to its kind. If said sentence was missing, one could wager for the theistic evolution hypothesis, but the sentence is there. One has to willingly ignore it to accept evolution.

Don't ignore the flat, geocentric earth either.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/index.htm

You can't be a true Christian and accept a round, moving earth.

Side: No
Leahn(21) Disputed
1 point

Wait to go with strawman so early in the discussion. You know your derision was completely unnecessary, don't you?

There is nothing in the Bible text that forces an interpretation of the Earth being flat and the Universe being geocentric. You're confusing the Bible with fundamentalism.

Side: No
1 point

I don't see where evolution fits in with the Scriptures. Assuming a "true" Christian is one who believes the Bible and all it entails, one cannot be a true Christian and believe in evolution. These are simply not compatible. The Bible talks simply about creation, there is nothing about evolution.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,

in the image of God he created him;

male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Adam and Eve

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called 'woman, '

for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Genesis 1&2;Notice how God created man? Man did not come from apes. Man was created by the hand of God, different from all animals. Personally, I think this is very straightforward. If you think that evolution is involved here, read the text more carefully.

Side: No
1 point

No, if you believe in evolution, you believe God is a liar and he didnt create the world in 6 literal 24 hour days! God created the earth and everything in it in 6 days and rested on the 7th evolution says the world has been here millions of years people evolved monkeys. God said he created man and beasts and everything there is man didnt evolve from apes if so why is there still apes? there is no proof in evolution and it doesnt even make sense! If you believe in evolution then God is a liar to you and you dont believe a word he said!

Side: No
Bohemian(3861) Disputed
1 point

I cannot help but find this post to be hilariously misinformed!

First and foremost, mankind did not evolve from monkeys, rather we share a common ancestor with them. This common ancestor was a primate, it's species split into two different species. One which evolved into apes and the other which evolved into monkeys and at some point the apes split again, giving us modern humans and the great apes we have today. Evolution is not linear.

Also it's worth pointing out that apes and monkeys are not the same thing.

Of course evolution is not going to make sense to you, you've not taken the time to understand it.

Side: yes
prophetman(28) Disputed
1 point

It is a waste of time to try to understand your religion. Give me on shred of evidence that man came from ape monkey whatever you say they came from. Give me proof!!

Side: No
prophetman(28) Disputed
1 point

So youre saying we were evolved from apes then? Why are there still apes why didnt they all evolve into humans. And also where is your proof that we evolved? You have no proof there is no proof its a religion that you have to have faith to believe!

Side: No
Genesis1vs1(31) Disputed
1 point

So then you accept then that "lucy" is your ancestor. What about the fact there is no transitional forms that show from ape to man. We see this with "lucy" and other ape ancestors. They have a locking wrist (knuckle walker) and curved finger bones. How would one generation of apes just drop that genetic information and walk upright and not climb trees. How would an animal like that survive with an apelike intelligence. I would love to see evidence that shows me how a creature like that survived. You say evolution is not linear I agree. But the entire fossil record doesn't so a single instance of a change that adds genetic material. Only mutations that lose information.

Side: No
1 point

We as humans have adapted and have evolved but we did not come from apes. We have physically changed to our environments over time. That's why some people have very little Body hair and others have too much hair.

Side: No
1 point

Absolutely not, the ideal of evolution is to disprove creation needing a creator. Genesis tells us the creation was created in six literal days. Progress-creation is the biggest problem with modern christians. They believe in millions and millions of years which goes directly against what God tells us. And as far as, some Hebrew scholars stating that "yom" which means day being used in any other context is absurd. There are many different places in the Bible that refer to creation being in six literal days. Even Jesus refers to a six day creation. It wasn't until Darwin (lost his faith after the death of his daughter) proposed his theory that creationists began to reinterpret the Bible. Even in science evolution is still a theory and not a law. There is no consensus among the scientific community that uniformily agrees on a single evolutionary ideal. Remember man is falliable and God is not, he is the absolute truth and his word is infalliable. Do not turn to the ideas of man and change what the Bible says take it as literal narrative.

Side: No
zombee(1026) Disputed
1 point

I was going to point out the problems with your statements about Darwin and the state of evolution in the modern scientific community but I think I should save those for another debate. Instead, I have a question.

Does this mean you think that, in order to be a 'true' Christian, one must deny everything that contradicts the Bible?

Side: yes
Genesis1vs1(31) Disputed
1 point

If the ideas of man contradict what God says then yes you should be critical of those ideas. A "true" christian shouldn't comprimise the Biblical word of God who is infalliable.

I look forward to hearing about the state of the modern scientific community. Especially which evolutionary theory you would like to discuss because there are many.

Side: No
1 point

There is a contradiction between time of creation according to the bible and evolution.

Adam existed 11 000 BC according to calculation based on data and events from the bible.

http://www.fromdeathtolife.org/bible/gencgen.html

Homo sapiens(modern human) is dated 200 000 years ago according to fossils,

and the origin of humans according to evolution date back 2 million years.

Side: NO
1 point

You can't because true christians learn from the bible and in the bible it says God made humans in his image which would make God a monkey at the moment.

Side: NO
1 point

I'm not Christian, but I dislike it when people cherry pick the Bible. It clearly says that God created the universe in six days. I think that people should either believe that all parts of the Bible are true or none of them are. It does not make sense to believe that certain parts are.

Side: NO
1 point

No because a true Christian would believe in God's creation of the earth rather than man's way of creating ways and it results in error. I as a Christian choose God's way because He is far superior and knows more things than we as man only know very little about the universe.

Side: NO
-1 points

I was lost in the Darkest parts of my own wicked ways, spiraling down a path of destruction leading me away from His Almighty ways, and all the while im going down ONLY ONE, He could save me. No matter how far i looked on this lowly planet, i never once found a soul who could manage, to show me the love that i truly needed, because on this planet aint nothing but hate and contempt have been breeded. the lowly snake slithering as he goes through the towns of man looking for lowly lowly souls, to feed on so that it could plant it's evil seeds, and so that throughout the generations nothing but evil and hate we could recieve, but those where the ways of the past, my brothers and sisters. the devil had a hold of us and he managed through our parents, down through the generations His ways have been lost, and because of the us, the devil has turned and tossed, We can All be saved, all we need is Thanksgiving, to the One who Above, for All of His Givings. The devils trying to stop me right now as i speak, but Faithful to the Lord and willit He, that i may be meek. Because it is He not i that gives you this message but it is The One that we All should seek. i know that it is hard to find Rest, as we all go through this test some call a game, every single last one of us, probably, training to gain and retain our fame. But That is not what this life is about, i have a Strong feeling that we are All getting our Water from the wrong wrong spout. because thats all the devil has for us is a little bit, of pleasure, then comes the pain. steady feeding our bodies what i see now Is Insane. because ya'll hafto see that we are all carnally minded, and This is the reason The LORD, us he has blinded, binding, ourselves to our own flesh, so that eventually we would All fail this Test. but know that The Lord, He loves us, and wishes nothing but the best, and all He wants is for us to Love Him all the while through this Test. some wonder why we see nadoes and quakes, He needs ya'll to know that its Ya'lls souls that He is trying to shake. and bake if you will, so the devil may not have his fill, to letchya'll know that there is NONE like that ALMIGHTY AND ALL POWERFULL ONE. i say full because Hes filled with Love, like None that we have seen on this lowly earth, but now that i have SEEN, my Eyes have been UnBlinded, and now it is He, He who signs this, letter so maybe that some of Ya'll could listen, and Maybe get the Message that He is trying to dish, out of His spout, so that ya'll might be fed, with all of His Love, His Water, And His Bread. Don't for a second think any of Ya'll are living, All of ya'll are dead and for the devil are you "living" as i sit here and do this all of the "dome" just know that it is Not me and that this is His tomb. He is singing through me in these words and this song, so that maybe one day we All can be free all the day long, and ya'll can say its cheesy if ya'll want, but just know the devil in you he does flaunt x) i had to stop and show ya'll how i felt about that one, cuz its the truth, and right now i have a Strong feeling He is swinging harder than that brother Babe Ruth, or ballin harder than micheal jordan, and in this song he Is Playing His Accordian. Ya'll just need to know that He is our Guardian, and right now im flying Higher than any single air jordan, because my love i gave to Him more than any of Ya'll so i guess i can say more than them. But dont getit twizted like boi's if ya'll know, that me and moreover Him, have a lot to show. we are all brothers and sisters, but i should call us the missers, because we all fail to see the smaller things in this world, without even thinking twice, what truly brings a man alot of happiness or to see the pain that ALOT of us have in us. i know that we are all hurting on the inside, and for ya'll who say we dont, Boi, you know that is a lie, because only with Him and not that evil leech from down south, can we truly fly. higher than the highest of trees or the tallest of mountains, But in Him we Have to trust, so that We may Drink From The One and Only True fountain, only because of Him can i do this for days, and its Because i gave Him my love, thanksgiving, and praise. so now that i have seen what it is truly to be Man, Men of God, all these hater out there who bout to say something aint nuthing more than sod. sorry if it dont make sense, just know that me and Him the latter first, We are just trying to give His children, ya'll some mother lovin cents. forgive me if i pause for no longer am i a vulgar man life is just a beach, and Now, He is playing in the sand, hopefully in the minds of the young, the daughters and sons, i have my holster, and now the Lord is my Gun, Shining Brighter, than a million suns, times two, because His love is True, actually make that twenty twenty, because He is aplenty, in me in you and All, i just hope that ya'll can hear His call, so that maybe that ya'll may not fall, into the Pit, but right now i can say the devil is probably having a fit, of anxiety cuz he is losing his "children" just know that we are God's and with me He has been pilfering, in my mind day and night, as i have been in my room trying to stay out of sight, of ya'll because all it seems like to me, that nothing to ya'll it would please, more, than to see one of your own fellow brother get shot and fall. when i look around me i dont see any real love, this evil surrounds me, but Now i DO NOT CARE, because the Lord, THE LORD, HE has found me. so now ya'll cannot touch, because with His love, im about to bust. with loving Faith and Trust, i put in Him, so that i can be led away from this life of sin, and Now that i have His Trust, my brotha's and sista's, not just the black ones, comeon now, that just is not a must, there is no such thing man, all that is, is nothing more than an evil thought, brought up in vain, so that maybe a man's soul, that leech, can be bought. Quit being evil, for it is Love, that should be sought, out so once again we may be fed from His Spout, for only He can give us what we need so that in the end we may succeed. my brothers and sisters all we need to do is Believe, and then, Anything, together, WE CAN ACHIEVE. this is an ode to ya'll so in hopes once again that ya'll may hear The Call, and will not fall, so one day me, ya'll, and The Almighty,Perfect, like a prefect without the er, Omnipotent, and Patient ONE, that together we May All Ball. and they keep telling me to stop, but i just cant my brothers me and Him are headed to the top, and right now i got The Heart Of A Lion, King, and pray tell me my brothers and sisters who are reading, what single Beast can stop that king? of the jungle we are running but with Him we can be free. out into the open pasture we all can roam, just know this is not me, and that this is His Tomb. its wierd how they're spelled alike but do not rhyme, im talking bout bomb my brothers, and its One of a Kind. in the Hopes that this petty rhyme, can help lead the black sheep, away from the Blind, being themselves, for who? tell me can save them from that? if you dont answer right then your a part of this blight that runs rampant through the streets, evil im talking about and all it wants to do is eat, your souls because it is angry at the Living God, hahahaha for it is nothing more than a sod, on His Cleat as He is Running, Hoping that some of these Words, hit you right in the stomach, and make you sick, but not you, im talking about the evil you, for we are all children of God, but we have made ourselves nothing more than a sod =( i say with a heavy heart, because all this time we have been playing the devil, his part, but with Him it is nothing but a fart, because He Forgives, and Only Through Him may we EVER, get the chance to Live, and im not talking about on the earth, im talking about another, and maybe one day you can see and i can Truly call you my Brother, for there is Life in Death, but it is only gained through this life which is a test, just know that when we die, if you have lived righteously, on that day you will Fly, for the Lord will Breathe His Breath in you when you die and like i said before You Will Fly, but not if you keep eating from the devil's table, for you can only eat from one, and i hope its Not the devil's table. for if we Eat from Him, we can All go back into His Stable, and only in doing that can we Ever truly be stable, only only if, we are eating from, The Living God's Table. and for ya'll who are sitting at your computers steadily dissin Him, i pray for you, because it you are missin, Him and the bigger picture, just know right now im taking a Big Gulp From His Ultimate Pitcher, not one from the MLB, and if you are listening then i pray that you sea, i mean see, but with Him we can fly over the one before, and higher than mike, dunk it in, right for a score, but not for 2 for it is for 3, because He is Holy in me, but atm holy in you, because you missing some parts, we all need to change, so that we may play His Part, that He intended from the Beginning, because only With Him can we ever be winning, but hahahaha not as long as we are sinning. for that is not the way that we was meant to walk, With Him we was mean to Walk and Talk. once again i say this way i, used to, but we choose to live, is insane in the membrane, but He is using me as His Template, lol or templar whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, ha just without the errrr. as i sit here steadily dissin em i mean the demons in the minds of the children of the One and Only, God Who Is Kind, i hope that they depart, so we can All gaze upon The Divine, not like wine or watch, i aint lil wayne, just know that i feel like im the only one who is sane. because i AM NOT PERFECT, do not get the wrong message for that would hurt me, only He is, and He just wants some love from His Kids, but for some odd reason... we still choose to do the evil leeches bids, for i feel he has sucked to much from us, all of our blood, i mean soul, it has tucked from us, and right now He is aiming at it with a Big Ol' Blunderbuss. to shoot it and unleech it, from His Children's Soul's so one day maybe we can gaze upon, That Wonderful City Of Gold, and dont letit peak your in ter ests, for if you do your not getting whats bests, from this test that He has beset, for our minds to ponder and think on, maybe in some of the hearts out there this message is shining, for He is a Beacon of Light, to shine out all the evils, and end this ugly, hateful blight, that courses through our vains, that nasty garbage that makes us feel insane, because no one is living right, and for That NONE is sane. you can talk and sit there and chatter, but i pray and hope that none get fatter, and im not talking because of mcdonalds, im talking about your ego and pride, because We Alll NEED to push that aside, all we seem to do is breed hate and contempt, sitting there looking for another hurt sould to feed on, thinking it makes us content, but just know NOW people, lolol all your doing is letting the devil be your PIMP! ha ha ha i think that really funny, because in the words of man that just makes ya'll some ho's, and please forgive my trespasses my sisters and brothers, for my vulgar words, because i Did Not mean to hurt, He's just trying to keep our faces from being rubbed in the dirt. but it really shouldnt matter because we are mud, and from One we all came, so can i not call ya'll blood??? nah im not talking about them two glock shotta's, im talking bout from The One Who Has Always Got Us, not us as in the navy, i mean us as in the ones who might sit on that bus, the one going to school and to the ones who drool in class, and all of us who needs a kick in the, pause, ya'll know what i mean, im just sitting here trying not be obscene, all im trying to do is get the bigger picture, through ya'll minds so that maybe one day, we can All WALK IN THE LORDS WAY. forgive me if i make any of ya'll mad, if i do know that i Am sad, but how about ya'll just go to the store and go and grab on of them happy hefty bags, you know i meant glad if you didnt you are simple, and forgive me as i sit here and bust this pimple, lol sorry that was nasty just know that i didnt, and know that we are all fake, and its time for some rhino plasty, or however its spelled im just hoping some hearts will melt, like the plastic we are, and become melded into flesh, as i sit here and type in this Soul Food test, for if ya'll can't hear me then your hearts are so cold, forgive me as i trespass, because, uhm, i Am not trying to be bold, im just tryna through some fia atcha hearts, in the hopes that you may leave the Dark, ness not loch just in case thats watchu thought, all you gotta do is leave your flesh behind, and know that He is the one who Should Be Sought, out so we can drank From His Spout, cuz the Lord Knows, man it has been a drought. we are all so thirsty, but in order to be filled its The Lord who must come firsty x) just know that me and Him are going Stooopid, and for those who are real maaan i thoughtchu knew it. and if you dont i pray you haven't already blew it, up i mean your ego, like a balloon, just know right now i feel like taz boi, yup them looney toones, or tunes whichever you prefer, just know that He is Prefect, just without the err. and i say pre because He was always here, yes before you and me, but with Him i wanna letchu know that we can all be as pure, and as white as the snow, just like powder we can all be melted, i mean melded into the beings we were meant to be, so one day we may fly free as a dove, Right over the sea, so that we all can reach New Jerusalem, yup just right where we was all meant to be, that is the Golden City for those who did not, know, im just hoping that one day we can All be as pure as the snow, because the evil has taunted and flaunted and given us a show, to peak i mean perk up our ears and it, that leech i mean, gave us nothing but fears, fears of ourselves and one another, fears from our sisters and daughter, Father, and brothers, but we have a right to Fear the Living God, because to Him we have all become a sod, He is sorrowful and cries as we follow, the evil being, who was never meant to be followed, and i felt His pain at one point in time, yes i Am talking About the Divine, we both cried together, in my room, because of the little things we miss, something just as small as, a heartfelt kiss... for it is the little things that bring us the greatest joy, not some diamond chain, or a, wind up toy, the biggest thing of all that should, is His Love, should bring us the Greatest joy, in the world, for thats all it is man just cars and noise, all the long going our way, Missing the sweetest noise, zes ya'll know what i mean, im talking about the One who is Never obscene, for He is Just And Right, in each and every single way, and for our sins my borhters and sisters, we have to pay, but do not fret for it is never to late, I think we all need to call upon The Divine, and we should All go on a date, do not worry for on this date there is no rape, or murder, or hate, for that is of the devil, and Your Soul it will take, there is no worries once you follow Him, we should all be hand in hand as we walk down this path, called, life Never having to worry about no pain or strife, or for a bigger picture His Wrath, but ONLY IF WE DRINK FROM HIS PITCHER. for The All Powerful and Righteous Wrath, only comes when you stray from His Path, it is there to show us our wrongs...can you feel His Soul as i sit here and Sing His song? and with Him i will NEVER fall, because with my Brother, I will always Hear His Call. i say we but it is Him, who say these words to in the hopes, that those who have an Ear to listen may never Fall, into the Pit, all you have to do is have Faith, Follow The Ten, Believe, and never EVER Quit, for in order to gain His All Perfect and Good Graces, we have to eliminate ALL the Hate and evil, in all sorts of places, i have a feeling this song was wrote long before, just in His mind and now in mine, and i sing His song in the Hopes, that you follow Him and not any of these "popes" for no hope lies in them, lol and if you truly think aboutit that actually rhymed, just know that im thinking of Him, foremost, but ya'll too as i steadily write This Rhyme, it comes from above yup, Straight From the Divine, in the Hopes that one day ya'll can SEE, exactly it was that we was missing, so we can All fly over the sea. Man this thing is long but i should Say God, because this is His Rhyme, and not from a sod, like me or you, if you real you can feel its True, as His Sword aims at the hearts of His good, flying Straight and Through, lol i mean True, but them if you can follow my friend, all we gotta do is sing Praises and Thanksgiving to Him, until the very end, and give Him all of our love, Because WITHOUT HIM, ha There WOULD BE NO LOVE, all there would be is pain and suffering, and i hope that the ones who are, suffer, i mean acating, Might actually stop and take the time to sit there and be debating, against the devil of course, cuz all it wants to do is, lead us, right, or left, but straight off our course. Lord Please Forgive me, if i am being coarse just know that i am your back, and You Are My Horse, lol ya'll might think He's heavy but He's really not, and i Love Him till Death, i mean Life, cuz i have found It, but back to the point, because i HE HAS TAUGHT, never went to church or none of that, maybe when i was younger but none of that, for our minds our are churches, ha gotit backwards but i feel as tall as the burches, talking bout them trees man im over the seas man, just know i cant, wait, My Father, until You Kick Over My Can Man x) aw man i thoughit was funny, because he's One Cool Dude, and i am His, Bunny, i mean Collie, and know that as i, i mean He, but as i bark, that i have a Strong feeling, that i am playing my Part, or His i prefer the latter but the choice is yurs, because it is His Puzzle, and i am the last part, i cant be for certain because the Knowledge is His, but im just trying to bring His Black Sheep back, you know i mean His KIDS, He thoughtit was funny, But ya'll best Believe that He NOR i the first comes first, but neither one of us is No, pause, Dummy, lol but if you choose you can beat and bite, whatever you do just know it is out of spite, and i dont capitilize because its an evil word, just know me and HIM, are trying to end this wrongful blight, and saying these words i Hope that maybe, just maybe some can be given the Sight, that HE intended us to have, right, from Go, talking bout monopoly,lol but no no more, from the start maaaan all HE ever wanted was us to give our heart, which is HIS, because He gave to us, All that is HIS, HE just Wanted someone to talk to man, thats why HE made HIS Kids, HE was all alone, and then HE built, a Beautiful place for us, and HIM, to walk and talk all the while, just laughing and talking, seeing eachother smile =) because HE is our FATHER, He's not as mean ha as ya'll would believe, just know that HE TRULY IS ONE BENEVOLENT KING. lol ha ha i think this is funny, He knows what im talking about, cuz this is all of the top of the dome with barely a second to pause, Just Know the THE LION KING, Has Opened HIS Claws, Blessed be the children who took the time to listen, to the message that a, and The King is steadily dishin, i say a because i am one too, but know that im a servant, and from a Seed i did Grew, i dont care if it makes no sense to ya'll because i have heard the Lords Call, and they, they know who they are, are always listening, and as He types, through, me i have a feeling they are about to call, Prayer is the Best Wireless Connection X) aint no service down here got that type of Connection, i just hope that i get to see some of ya'll at that intersection, i mean Crossroads, bone thugz n harmony, they said it first, man thats the song man and if you feel their soul, then maybe you should hurt, because those bois on the streets back in the day, all they was doing was searching for some Peace, but in the streets, the oppressors, following the devil, have no love for us in the slums, just know that we All have a Holster and God Is our Gun, we dont need no metal, for The Lord our issues HE will settle, all you gotta do is Have some Faith, saying this in hope that some dont see any wraiths, talking demons people come now and please listen, as the Lord spits his song and these Words HE is dishin, out yup you getting it word of mouf, lol or mouth whichever you prefer just DONT follow that lowly snake, yup the one down south, it might try and offer pleasure and happiness butits all fake, HA what do ya'll expect from a lowly snake? remeber eve as she sat under that tree? sitting there thinking and feeling the breeze? the snake spoke in her Ear temptation it did bring, and after teel me WHO did she fear? she had a split second of happiness and thats all it can give, and after that she felt the WRATH which is ONLY HIS, lol i hope that ya'll see, the way we live people, it just wasn't meant to be, i have a feeling that there all up there laughing, with, not at me as i type out His message, and i pray ALMIGHTY FATHER, THE ONES WHO HAVE AN EAR TO LISTEN PLEASE FATHER PLEASE LET THE HEAR. and the ones who dont i pray you dont hit him hard, maybe just a little tap, just like Babe Ruth, on that baseball card x) Peace be with you my sisters and brothers, just know that HIS LOVE IS LIKE NO OTHER, GOD BLESS ALL WHO FINISHED, AND I PRAY YOUR SOULS NEVER, DIMINISH. ONE HEART IS ALL, AND WITH THAT HEART WE CAN NEVER FALL, lol i said i was finished, but i dont think HE is as you can tell this words are not mine, THEY COME FROM THE UPPER BEING, yup THE DIVINE!!! i think im going to cut Him short and please Forgive me, because i know HE could go all day, BECAUSE I CAN FEEL HIM IN ME.

Side: No
protazoa(427) Disputed
2 points

"BECAUSE I CAN FEEL HIM IN ME."

Lol thats gay. Almost as gay as the fact that you post this poem everywhere.

Side: yes