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Debate Info

29
25
Yes No
Debate Score:54
Arguments:62
Total Votes:57
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (27)
 
 No (22)

Debate Creator

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Can free will exist if God does not exist?

If we are simply biological and material, free will does not exist.

https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/do-we-have-free-will

Yes

Side Score: 29
VS.

No

Side Score: 25
3 points

We can think freely/independently to either accept or reject the religious teachings with which most of us have been brainwashed as children.

If we exercise our human ability/right of free will and reject the doctrine of blackmail, i.e. love god and worship him or suffer eternal torture in hell, we are then free to consider other more scientific explanations for the creation of the universe and our role within the overall scheme of things.

Religion consists of the recorded accumulation of concepts and opinions of ordinary mortals, with enormous imaginations, from around two thousand years ago.

Free will/independent thinking dissolves the superstitious myths conjured up in the minds of well meaning, but misguided academics and philosophers of their day.

Side: Yes
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

Disabusing yourself of one delusion does not mean your are freed of all of them, nor does that even remotely suggest you have free will. One can be determined not to gain or maintain a delusional belief in religion. Free will isn't necessary to the equation.

Side: No
outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

Are you saying Jace that Muslims who practice the Religion of Islam are delusional ? Thought you Progressives had a fond affection for Muslims. Is that not correct?

Side: Yes
1 point

Although I am not either a Christian or a atheist hypothetically if we were only a product of evolution then I see no reason why we wouldn't posses free will. It is the greater intelligence that humans possess that allowed them to rise above the rest of the animal kingdom and had we not had freewill I think we would only be acting on instinct thus we never would have reached the heights our society has reached for. I was freewill that gave way for human ambition.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1380) Clarified
1 point

Belief in "gods" and rejecting God is the same as atheism. Both hope to escape pain, suffering, and punishment in death; both are self-justifying religious philosophies with no hope outside of death. Both say it's okay for men to defile their bodies with other men as in Sodom.

Side: Yes
Iacov(68) Clarified
1 point

You seem obsessed with sodomy. Sodomy is anal sex that's all it is. If you must know I am bisexual and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Now you have named some supposed similarities between Asatru Paganism and atheism but that does not mean they are one and the same.

Side: Yes
sylynn(626) Disputed
1 point

Someone else addressed your obsession with sodomy so I'll leave that alone this time, but no belief in other gods and not the Christian god is not the same as atheism. It's simple grammar. Deconstruct the word. What is a theist? Someone who believes in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world. A-theist is someone who doesn't believe in this. Even from a Christian perspective, theism does not address the belief in a specific god or the "right" god, but simply "some" god. Words have meaning and don't change based on your own beliefs.

Side: Yes
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

If we are a product of evolution that immediately suggests determinism, not free will. It certainly doesn't explain why or how we can have free will on its own.

It takes a great deal of anthropocentric bias to think that human intelligence is "greater" or that we have "risen above" the rest of organic life. Even if even of that self-lauding prejudice was sound, why should we think that instinct is insufficient to getting there at all? Why is free will necessary for ambition?

Side: No
1 point

Sure it can. I'm not entirely sure why anyone would think otherwise. Let's say God didn't exist but people still did. There could always be some form of community where free will was suppressed and no one could act at their own discretion.

It's an individuals desire to act as they please and is not reliant on a deity or God's existence.

Side: Yes
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

Having desires does not prove that free will exists. Those are two distinct phenomenon.

Side: No
Mint_tea(4641) Disputed
0 points

No it doesn't, but having the ability to act upon that desire at one's discretion shows that it does.

Side: Yes
1 point

He/She already doesn't and it already does.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Side: Yes
1 point

Free will exists and nothing suggests God does, so yes it can exist without God. Our next topic, "Can garlic bread exist if the flying spaghetti monster does not?"

Side: Yes
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

Nothing suggests free will exists either, but you seem to have no problem taking that on faith.

Side: No
NicolasCage(505) Disputed
1 point

Free will does exist. I could go outside right now and punch someone, but I'm not going to, because I have free will. The fact that I can actually imagine a scenario in which I could go outside and punch someone is proof of free will.

A more interesting argument would be "does society allow us free will?"

The reason I'm not going to go round murdering people is because I don't want to go to jail.

Another reason is because I believe murder is wrong... but, again, why do we believe this?

We believe it because society has conditioned us to see murder as wrong. I challenge you to explain to me why murder is objectively wrong.

"Because it's taking someone's life!"

Why is that bad?

"Because life is precious!"

Why?

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here. The point is, free will does exist - however, it is restricted by our own society.

Side: Yes
1 point

Of course we have free will, though many do not want to admit it. The way this question is asked, many will say they believe they have free will without God just so they can feel like they are arguing against God. In other places, many of those same people will claim they really have no free will as their choices are made according to their genes and environment so that they feel justified in their sins.

It's a waste of time to try to reason with an atheist, they believe life is meaningless and hopeless and they hope dying gets them out of reality so they wont' be held accountable for the things they have done. Atheists believe everything is essentially nonsense, and that's all you can get out of them. Atheism is empty.

Side: Yes
1 point

Your brain is empty, stain, and you are barely alive.

I've already destroyed all of your arguments, to which you couldn't reply, which goes on to show that your religion is worth nothing.

Side: No

Yes, it can.

Whether it does, on the other hand, is a different question.

Also, that can also depend on what type of a free will you are talking about. It's a rather vague notion as it is.

Side: Yes

Think of it this way: either God exists, or he doesn't.

If God exists, then we have free will because He gave it to us.

If God doesn't exist, then we have free will because there is no God to restrict our free will.

We have evolved over millions of years to become intelligent creatures which can think independently. If God began the evolutionary process then He likely did so with the intention of us developing autonomy.

If God did not begin the evolutionary process, and does not exist, then nothing changes. We still have free will which has resulted from years of evolution.

God is an irrelevant concept when talking about free will; whether he exists or not, we still have free will. Nothing changes.

Side: Yes
0 points

Of course it could. That's kind of like saying could acrobatics exist if Spiderman didn't exist. One does not depend on the other. And besides that, Spiderman is just made up.

Side: Yes
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

The existence of a deity introduces a possible explanation for the origin of free will. Without, there is no evident explanation for how it could exist. Whereas, without Spiderman we can still have other explanations as to how acrobatics exist.

Side: No
Grenache(6053) Disputed
1 point

But the contention is that free will could not possibly exist in the absence of a deity, and saying yes the existence of a deity means it must come from that deity is a giant leap. Especially when that deity supposedly disagrees with and punishes us for that free will we supposedly only have because of that deity.

Side: Yes
2 points

This is how it works as I have witnessed these past 50 years.

America has been a majority Christian nation and the moral values lifted up in our society, were basically a result from our Christian heritage.

We had no need for so called moral laws because people held common sense moral values in their hearts. They were raised in families and a culture that instilled those common sesne values for the good of our nation and our children.

Free will works great when mankind has moral values ingrained in their soul. A Godless nation will deteriorate to such a point that bigger ever more intrusive Government control will be needed, constantly putting social bandaids on the amoral anything goes culture. Lack of moral values will ultimately bankrupt a nation.

So as insecure bigoted Progressives came into power, and told us we must censor any expression of our historical Christian heritage, because it might offend someone, and it might lift up the importance of simple moral responsibilities on the part of others.

Gone were the nativity scenes on public land. Gone were simple voluntary Prayers in public schools at beginning of day (with no child forced to pray).

These arrogant Progressives even try to take God out of our pledge of alligeince, off our money, etc. They fire coaches who dare say a prayer on the football feild.

IT'S THE BIG BROTHER PROGRESSIVE THOUGHT POLICE WHO WILL FORCE YOU TO SPEAK OR PRAY ONLY WHERE THEY SAY YOU CAN SPEAK OR PRAY.

Conservative speakers are being banned from College campuses!

These are the extremists who have taken over the Democrat party. This is why Trump won the election. People are terrified from these nazi like Progressives.

So when a nation separates any mention of God, there becomes a vacuum in a nations core values.

There no longer is a moral foundation built on bedrock.

You ask whose morals will our nation follow? I agree! There is not a man in this world that agrees completely with another man's morals.

So when a nation censor's the moral values lifted up by our Christian heritge, we are left with this anything goes no fault culture. Look at the millions of broken families and fatherless children as the results.

Our values today are built on sand whereby they shift with the times. Who would have ever believed the Democrat Party could sink so low, as to support no restriction abortions of viable babies for any reason at any stage.

THIS IS INFANTICIDE, YET WITHOUT GOD, THE LEFT HAS LOST ALL SENSE OF HUMANITY AND COMMON MORAL SANITY! What's next, death camps for old people who become burdens on society?

Side: No
2 points

A robust and persuasive argument based on your strong belief in your faith.

Whilst I don't subscribe to your religious dogma I would agree we would all do well to adopt the moral teachings of Christianity.

It would be no more than juvenile belligerence to deny that the Bible teaches tolerance, decency and a high moral code.

May your God go with you.

Side: No

Thank you for your honesty.

You are the non believers of the past who understood the importance of moral values derived from a nation's faith even if they themselves were not believers.

There are many Atheists today who want to separate any mention of our Christian heritage in public and we are seeing the results big time.

They are too insecure, arrogant and deceptive to ever admit the breakdown in our nation's moral values since the lie of separation of Church and State.

Side: No
2 points

If one accepts the premise that a god exists, then one can derive an explanation for how free will can then exist. Without that premise, however, it is entirely unclear what explanation might be given for how free will exists. The subtraction of the god premise does not disprove free will, but it does remove an explanation where no other is readily evident. Notably, no one commenting that free will can exist if God does not has (so far) presented even a semblance of an alternative explanation for how free will could exist without a God premise. That makes the claim that free will can exist as obviously shallow and tenuous as the claim that god can exist.

Side: No
1 point

Free will cannot exist regardless of whether or not there is a deity simply given the material/physical nature of our universe. Decisions are only ever the product of the sum of every influence having acted on that individual, and ultimately these influences are chemical in nature. Chemical interactions are dictated by mechanics, and on and on until the most elementary laws of our universe.

Side: No

It cannot. If we are simply the chaotic remnant of a random biological process, free will is an illusion and not real in any way, shape or form.

Side: No