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And.........................it's a free country, so they are allowed to buy alcohol and yes, they can wear skirts (freedom of expression), along with all other men on the planet.
I, myself am gay. I am Christian, and I love god. Being gay does not cause you to not want to be Christian. What would I be? Atheist or satanic? Would my god be gay? You guys obviously do not make any sense. Yes we can be Christians. Every gay I have known has been christian. We do not worship the devil, we're not different as people, and God loves us. Its very immature and ignorant to say that because we're gay we can not be christian. There is no intelligence in our society.
Of course they can. They can even be priests! Of course, some won't recognize them as legitimate, but no two denominations of Christianity ever considered one another legitimate anyway, so that's hardly worth delving into.
Of course, some won't recognize them as legitimate, but no two denominations of Christianity ever considered one another legitimate anyway, so that's hardly worth delving into.
Just something I don't think anyone has said yet (I don't think this should matter but just putting it out there.) The Bible says that it is wrong to act on homosexuality. Having the urge to be gay isn't technically a sin.
You can't be a Christian and be gay. It's impossible to be those two. If you're really a Christian you would know that homosexuality is a sin and that God doesn't approve of such lifestyle.
When did gay become the only sin that you can't commit as a Christian? You have admitted many times that you are not free of sin. A homosexual is not free of sin. Wouldn't that mean that if a homosexual is not Christian, you aren't Christian either?
Yes we aren't free of sin, but that doesn't mean we can go out sinning on purpose. We try not to sin.
So do gay Christians. There are countless sins they don't commit. Why don't you take into account all of the sins they avoid instead of focusing on the sin they do not avoid? You are allowed the freedom to commit as much sin as you want as long as it isn't super specific? Why do you get a pass? Sin is sin.
Your question makes no sense.
Maybe you aren't as Christlike as you should be. If sinners aren't Christian, and you are a sinner, then you aren't a Christian by your own logic.
You make this weird special case for this one specific sin. That is what doesn't make any sense.
So do gay Christians. There are countless sins they don't commit. Why don't you take into account all of the sins they avoid instead of focusing on the sin they do not avoid? You are allowed the freedom to commit as much sin as you want as long as it isn't super specific? Why do you get a pass? Sin is sin.
Yes they are other countless sins that they do, but even when they ask God for forgiveness for a new start. They still are currently in sin which is being a homosexual and a homosexual will not inherit the Kingdom of God according to what God said in His word. I'm only repeating a verse in the Bible, there is nothing new about it.
Maybe you aren't as Christlike as you should be. If sinners aren't Christian, and you are a sinner, then you aren't a Christian by your own logic.
Who are you to say that I'm not Christlike, when you don't believe in God? This is what exactly pisses me off when people like you tell me that maybe I'm not Christlike as I should be when they aren't even apart of what I believe. It's okay if a Christian does it, because they are suppose to, but not someone who is not apart of the belief system.
I still don't get your point about what you said about my logic. When did I ever say that?
Yes they are other countless sins that they do, but even when they ask God for forgiveness for a new start. They still are currently in sin which is being a homosexual and a homosexual will not inherit the Kingdom of God according to what God said in His word. I'm only repeating a verse in the Bible, there is nothing new about it.
So, if you forget a sin that you committed and don't ask for forgiveness do you not get a new start and then no longer get considered a Christian? If you commit a sin are you not a Christian until you ask for forgiveness? No where in the Bible does it say you aren't a Christian when you commit a sin. The Bible says you won't be able to get into heaven.
Who are you to say that I'm not Christlike, when you don't believe in God? This is what exactly pisses me off when people like you tell me that maybe I'm not Christlike as I should be when they aren't even apart of what I believe. It's okay if a Christian does it, because they are suppose to, but not someone who is not apart of the belief system.
When did Christ say that He treated one sin different than another?
I still don't get your point about what you said about my logic. When did I ever say that?
If we assume homosexuality is a sin, and not some magical evil that causes all the rules to change, then you are claiming that all sin follows the same rules as homosexuality. That means that if you commit sins you aren't a Christian until you ask for forgiveness according to your logic. So, when you commit a sin does that make you not a Christian until you ask for forgiveness?
So, if you forget a sin that you committed and don't ask for forgiveness do you not get a new start and then no longer get considered a Christian? If you commit a sin are you not a Christian until you ask for forgiveness? No where in the Bible does it say you aren't a Christian when you commit a sin. The Bible says you won't be able to get into heaven.
No, in order for you to start fresh you must repent and ask for forgiveness which means turning away from that sin. Forgiveness will only be obtained if you abstain from that sin and discontinue doing it. That's the problem with being a gay Christian, they'll ask for forgiveness everyday, but God won't forgive them until they confess their sin to God and repent of them being a homosexual. Those people who are gay Christians are only practicing lawlessness which is sin, and when Christ comes back those people will say to God, did we not prophesy in your name or take out demons, and Jesus will say get away from me, I never knew you who practice lawlessness.
If we assume homosexuality is a sin, and not some magical evil that causes all the rules to change, then you are claiming that all sin follows the same rules as homosexuality. That means that if you commit sins you aren't a Christian until you ask for forgiveness according to your logic. So, when you commit a sin does that make you not a Christian until you ask for forgiveness?
When I commit a sin, I'm still a Christian but I learn from my mistakes. When I sin ,I automatically just don't stop being a Christian. God gives us many chances to start over again if you're willing to ask God for forgiveness and turn away from that sin.
No, in order for you to start fresh you must repent and ask for forgiveness which means turning away from that sin. Forgiveness will only be obtained if you abstain from that sin and discontinue doing it. That's the problem with being a gay Christian, they'll ask for forgiveness everyday, but God won't forgive them until they confess their sin to God and repent of them being a homosexual. Those people who are gay Christians are only practicing lawlessness which is sin, and when Christ comes back those people will say to God, did we not prophesy in your name or take out demons, and Jesus will say get away from me, I never knew you who practice lawlessness.
This is a perfect example of how you are wrong about homosexuality. None of my questions had to do with being gay. I was asking about sins not being a homosexual. If you treated homosexuality as a sin instead of a separate category you could answer the questions without bringing up homosexuality. According to you everyone who forgets a single sin they have committed is not a Christian because they have not turned away from the sin they have committed.
When I commit a sin, I'm still a Christian but I learn from my mistakes. When I sin ,I automatically just don't stop being a Christian. God gives us many chances to start over again if you're willing to ask God for forgiveness and turn away from that sin.
But, no one turns away from sin. You sin all the time.
Do you think it is possible that some Christians do not make it into heaven?
According to you everyone who forgets a single sin they have committed is not a Christian because they have not turned away from the sin they have committed.
I never once said anything about that. You're the one making the claim that I said that but, I didn't. You don't ever forget a sin at all because God sends the Holy Spirit to convict the person of their sins and tell them that what they did was wrong.
But, no one turns away from sin. You sin all the time.
Do you think it is possible that some Christians do not make it into heaven?
People can turn away from the sin they committed. If someone who used to steal all the time, and then asked stopped completely he turned away from that sin. There are other sins that they still will commit even though he stopped stealing.
Yes, I believe that some people who claim to be Christian will not make it to Heaven. God will judge them according to what they did in this life, and if they claimed to be Christians but they never did anything for God, or followed Him, then they won't make it to Heaven.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" - Matthew 7:21-23
I never once said anything about that. You're the one making the claim that I said that but, I didn't. You don't ever forget a sin at all because God sends the Holy Spirit to convict the person of their sins and tell them that what they did was wrong.
This is obviously not true. Otherwise, homosexuals would constantly be told by the Holy Spirit that what they are doing is wrong. You don't understand the implications of the things you say. When you condemn gays the way you are it must mean you have also condemned people who have unknowingly not stopped sinning.
People can turn away from the sin they committed. If someone who used to steal all the time, and then asked stopped completely he turned away from that sin. There are other sins that they still will commit even though he stopped stealing.
Is the person who constantly stole a Christian before they decide to stop stealing?
Yes, I believe that some people who claim to be Christian will not make it to Heaven. God will judge them according to what they did in this life, and if they claimed to be Christians but they never did anything for God, or followed Him, then they won't make it to Heaven.
So, gays can be Christians. Your whole reasoning for a gay not being a Christian is that God won't let them into heaven, but you also have admitted here that whether or not you get into heaven has no bearing on whether you are actually a Christian.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" - Matthew 7:21-23
In other words, "I consider you to still be Christian because you follow me, but if you don't stop your sinning ways you won't be rewarded like a good Christian."
This is obviously not true. Otherwise, homosexuals would constantly be told by the Holy Spirit that what they are doing is wrong. You don't understand the implications of the things you say. When you condemn gays the way you are it must mean you have also condemned people who have unknowingly not stopped sinning.
That is because over time when you keep sinning your mind becomes numb of the sin you commit and you start feeling like it isn't a sin. That is what happens to people who keep doing the same sin over and over again and they don't feel guilty for doing that.
Only God knows or people who you are close to know that the person stopped sinning. I don't condemn someone who stopped sinning . Don't know why you are saying that.
Is the person who constantly stole a Christian before they decide to stop stealing?
It was only an example what I put. The person could have been a Christian and stole it.
So, gays can be Christians. Your whole reasoning for a gay not being a Christian is that God won't let them into heaven, but you also have admitted here that whether or not you get into heaven has no bearing on whether you are actually a Christian.
People who are gay can be Christian only if they stop being a homosexual and turn away from that sin and stop being a homosexual.
I never said that stop putting word in my mouth that I never said. The only way to get to heaven is if they accept Jesus as their personal Savior and they follow what Christ taught. You can't be an unbeliever and get to heaven that's not how it works.
In other words, "I consider you to still be Christian because you follow me, but if you don't stop your sinning ways you won't be rewarded like a good Christian."
I quoted that verse because that will happen to the people who are gay Christians and other people who claim to be Christians but not really following him they will think they are doing is right and that they are following Jesus but they Jesus say get away from me you practice lawlessness
Is the person who constantly stole a Christian before they decide to stop stealing?
It was only an example what I put. The person could have been a Christian and stole it.
People who are gay can be Christian only if they stop being a homosexual and turn away from that sin and stop being a homosexual.
Do you see your statements at odds here? One can steal (sin) and be a Christian while committing the sin, then you say one cannot be a homosexual (sin) and be a Christian while sinning. Why can you commit any sin but the one and still be a Christian?
Cartman has shown that you seem to have a double standard here more than once. I do not expect you to see your err in logic based on your previous record on this site. I am not convinced you critically think about what you say/write.
In fact I am pretty sure I am wasting both our times here. I figured "why not" though as I have been surprised before. However do not expect any further replies unless you say something with substance, I don't have huge amounts of time to waste!
That is because over time when you keep sinning your mind becomes numb of the sin you commit and you start feeling like it isn't a sin. That is what happens to people who keep doing the same sin over and over again and they don't feel guilty for doing that.
Only God knows or people who you are close to know that the person stopped sinning. I don't condemn someone who stopped sinning . Don't know why you are saying that.
If you just treated gays like normal sinners you wouldn't have to come up with all these crazy stories.
It was only an example what I put. The person could have been a Christian and stole it.
A story about how you actually treat sinners. Let's establish how you treat real sinners, then we can discuss why you treat homosexuals differently. If a man follows Christ but constantly steals is he not a Christian. Since you say he could be a Christian, you must be admitting that homosexuals can be Christians.
People who are gay can be Christian only if they stop being a homosexual and turn away from that sin and stop being a homosexual.
No, you can't get into heaven. Huge difference.
I never said that stop putting word in my mouth that I never said. The only way to get to heaven is if they accept Jesus as their personal Savior and they follow what Christ taught. You can't be an unbeliever and get to heaven that's not how it works.
I didn't say anything about non believers getting into heaven. You are saying that believers aren't Christian when they sin. I was establishing that Jesus doesn't determine if you are a Christian or not when He admits you to heaven, He is only determining if you get into heaven.
I quoted that verse because that will happen to the people who are gay Christians and other people who claim to be Christians but not really following him they will think they are doing is right and that they are following Jesus but they Jesus say get away from me you practice lawlessness
And, your quote does not say whether someone is a Christian or not, it only has to do with getting into heaven, so it isn't actually relevant to this debate.
If you just treated gays like normal sinners you wouldn't have to come up with all these crazy stories.
I do treat gays like normal sinners. No sin is greater than the rest of it is. All sin is equal.
A story about how you actually treat sinners. Let's establish how you treat real sinners, then we can discuss why you treat homosexuals differently. If a man follows Christ but constantly steals is he not a Christian. Since you say he could be a Christian, you must be admitting that homosexuals can be Christians.
No the story isn't about how I treat sinners. I used an example of what repenting means, but clearly you didn't get that and assumed it was a story. Just because I say that the man who stole could be a Christian, doesn't mean that I admit that there can be gay Christians. Homosexuals can be Christians when they repent of their homosexual lifestyle.
No, you can't get into heaven. Huge difference.
Yes, you can if you repent of your sins and discontinue from them and continue to follow what Jesus said.
I didn't say anything about non believers getting into heaven. You are saying that believers aren't Christian when they sin. I was establishing that Jesus doesn't determine if you are a Christian or not when He admits you to heaven, He is only determining if you get into heaven.
I never said that believers aren't Christian when they sin. I still sin, but that doesn't make me not Christian if I sinned.
And, your quote does not say whether someone is a Christian or not, it only has to do with getting into heaven, so it isn't actually relevant to this debate.
Yes, my quote is actually quite relevant to this debate because many people will come to God saying didn't we prophesy and take demons out in your name? Jesus told them to get away from Him because they were practicing sin which means they kept doing the same sin over and over again and never repented. He wants people to repent and seek Him. It's relevant to people who call themselves "gay Christians".
I do treat gays like normal sinners. No sin is greater than the rest of it is. All sin is equal.
You keep claiming that, but every time we bring up other sinners you refuse to make the same claims about those sinners as you do about gays.
No the story isn't about how I treat sinners. I used an example of what repenting means, but clearly you didn't get that and assumed it was a story. Just because I say that the man who stole could be a Christian, doesn't mean that I admit that there can be gay Christians. Homosexuals can be Christians when they repent of their homosexual lifestyle.
I didn't assume it was a story. I assumed that we could consider thieves to be sinners the exact same way we consider homosexuals sinners. Is a thief a Christian before or after they repent for stealing?
Yes, you can if you repent of your sins and discontinue from them and continue to follow what Jesus said.
But, since being a Christian doesn't guarantee that you get into heaven just knowing you won't get into heaven doesn't mean we know if you are a Christian or not.
I never said that believers aren't Christian when they sin. I still sin, but that doesn't make me not Christian if I sinned.
You said that believers who are homosexuals aren't Christian. You say that homosexuals are considering sinners just like any other sinners. Therefore you are saying that any believer who sins is not a Christian. Or, you are saying that homosexuality is a different type of sin that causes you not to be a Christian.
Yes, my quote is actually quite relevant to this debate because many people will come to God saying didn't we prophesy and take demons out in your name? Jesus told them to get away from Him because they were practicing sin which means they kept doing the same sin over and over again and never repented. He wants people to repent and seek Him. It's relevant to people who call themselves "gay Christians".
No, it isn't relevant. This debate doesn't have anything to do with getting into heaven. Being relevant to gay Christians and being relevant to this debate are 2 different things. We are trying to determine if being gay makes you not Christian. Your Bible passage doesn't talk about who is considered Christian.
Mmm, I feel I shouldn'tcomment because reasons, but People who are gay can be Christian only if they stop being a homosexual and turn away from that sin and stop being a homosexual.
Err... You dont just stop being a homosexual. Srom, it's like me asking you to stop being straight and suddenly be attracted to men. You can try, hell maybe if you're strong willed enough you could sleep with a man. But you won't be able to make yourself like it, nor will you be able to change your emotions to start liking men in an emotional way instead of women.
Err... You dont just stop being a homosexual. Srom, it's like me asking you to stop being straight and suddenly be attracted to men. You can try, hell maybe if you're strong willed enough you could sleep with a man. But you won't be able to make yourself like it, nor will you be able to change your emotions to start liking men in an emotional way instead of women.
Yes, you can. I've heard lots of stories of people who have stopped being a homosexual, and have repented of what the lifestyle they're in. So you're saying once someone's gay they can never go back to being straight?
"once someone's gay.." Ugh you haven't learned. You don't become gay, you just are. Like, you don't become a girl over time, from the moment the sperm meets the egg you are destined to be either a boy or a girl.
And back to being straight?? Ughh, like I said- you don't go straight then gay. You are either straight or gay. And "lots of stories" Ooh yes, denial is a very convincing argument. Hey Srom I'm straight! I love pussy ;)
Oh look I said I'm straight now, I guess that means I am..
Also, why would someone choose to be gay? If the natural inclination is to like the opposite sex, why would someone choose to like the same? Think Srom, you like women don't you. I presume, anyway.... So that means you can't suddenly decide to find men attractive, even if you tried. Same with gay people, you cant just decide to be straight, your sexuality is final.
Also, referring to my previous point- why, in a world where people discriminate, beat the shit out of, and even kill homosexuals, would someone choose to be one? You think if a gay man is bullied every day of his lie, why would he choose that?? A lesbian woman commits suicide because everyone around her hates her " choice". Well I ask you if it is a choice, then who would rather kill themselves because of the torments they have to go to because of bullies, rather than just "turn straight again".
You're not a good debater Srom. Sorry to say it, but you're just not very good at this, there are so many loop holes in your arguments that you can't seriously combat!
Dude, you need to realize he is just a Christian. That means he doesn't actually understand how life works sometimes.
"once someone's gay.." Ugh you haven't learned. You don't become gay, you just are. Like, you don't become a girl over time, from the moment the sperm meets the egg you are destined to be either a boy or a girl.
Technically he is right and you can stop being gay. You just need to figure out what that means. The only way to tell if a man is a homosexual is if he is having sex with men. Once you stop the sex acts, you can repent and not be a homosexual with respect to God. It isn't about preference as much as Christians mistakenly say it is.
The vocal Christians have confused the issue so badly that the people like Srom start repeating arguments that make absolutely no sense.
Pretty much everything you said is accurate, but it doesn't fit with actual Christianity.
It's the gay acts that are a supposed to be a choice, which is just like other sinful activity. But, like other sinful acts people can't control their urges and are forgiven, unlike gay people.
But, for your question, technically Romans 1:26 says that because people stopped believing in God He introduced gay desires. So, God made you gay. :)
The underlying problem is that living a gay lifestyle is a chosen sin that one wishes to possess. Now, I'm not arguing that gays had an option for who they are attracted to. This is just a merely viewpoint from an agnostic, but most sins are sins that are not long term. For example, stealing, blashphemy, unforgiveness, murder, etc, are all sins that one commits, but isn't stretched out over a period of time as a chosen. I'm assuming this is why many hardcore Christians dislike the notion of gay Christians. This isn't my personal viewpoint, but rather an attempt of looking through the eyes of a Christian.
There is no evidence that sexual orientation is a willful choice; there is plenty to indicate that it is at least partially if not entirely beyond the will of the person. I am also unfamiliar with any Biblical basis for the distinction between "long term" sin and "regular" sin. Besides, excepting the "sin" of murder every other "sin" you mentioned tends to be a chronic, recurring issue at least as much as the "sin" of homosexual intercourse (and certainly more than the non-sin of abstinent homosexuality).
P.S. Just realized how old your post was after I hit submit. Feel free to disregard if you like.
The underlying problem is that living a gay lifestyle is a chosen sin that one wishes to possess.
I don't see how. What is the actual sin? Gay sex or living with the decision to have gay sex when you get the chance? Does that really make sense?
For example, stealing, blashphemy, unforgiveness, murder, etc, are all sins that one commits, but isn't stretched out over a period of time as a chosen.
Only because those sins are viewed as sins and not as some special case where if you think about doing it it becomes a super sin that kicks you out of your religion. How often are you thinking about yourself being straight? Does that even go through your head much? And, that isn't even what is considered a sin.
I'm assuming this is why many hardcore Christians dislike the notion of gay Christians. This isn't my personal viewpoint, but rather an attempt of looking through the eyes of a Christian.
I think you have it backwards. I think Christians dislike homosexuality, then figured out how to justify it.
I would assume that a gay lifestyle is the same as a man who constantly lusts for other women while in marrigage.
Gay sex or living with the decision to have gay sex when you get the chance? Does that really make sense?
You are trying to break this down to far. It is simply the fact that this lofestyle is chosen and not repented on. You are consistently sinning and breaking the laws that God has set forth. A Christian man can easily sin, but continuing the same sinful lifestyle in the eyes of Christ? It's a bit different.
Only because those sins are viewed as sins and not as some special case where if you think about doing it it becomes a super sin that kicks you out of your religion.
You can never be kicked out of the religion. You have to make the decision to leave. You can be kicked out of an organization such as a church. Also, why would you be kickes out of the religion for thinking about "it"?
How often are you thinking about yourself being straight? Does that even go through your head much?
Not at all, I have no reason to. If I'm attracted to someone I will know. It seems that my brain prefers women over men. If the case changes then i changes.
And, that isn't even what is considered a sin.
What isn't? I need some clarity.
I think you have it backwards.
I don't have it backwards. We are both correct on regards to what Christians do since Christians vary from place to place and from person to person.
I would assume that a gay lifestyle is the same as a man who constantly lusts for other women while in marrigage.
There is no reason to believe that gays are any different from straights other than a difference in preference. So, saying that someone is gay automatically means they are constantly lusting is unfair and part of the problem I have here. Why are they considered different? A man who lusts outside of his marriage is still considered Christian.
You are trying to break this down to far. It is simply the fact that this lofestyle is chosen and not repented on. You are consistently sinning and breaking the laws that God has set forth. A Christian man can easily sin, but continuing the same sinful lifestyle in the eyes of Christ? It's a bit different.
The Bible doesn't say choosing the path of homosexuality is a constant sin. It says don't lie with another man. That would be the act of sex. I don't think it is breaking it down too far to actually consider what is the actual sin we are discussing. I think saying that homosexuality is a sin and causes you not to be a Christian is not breaking it down at all.
You can never be kicked out of the religion. You have to make the decision to leave. You can be kicked out of an organization such as a church. Also, why would you be kickes out of the religion for thinking about "it"?
How would you not be a Christian and also not be kicked out of the religion? You are the one arguing that gays aren't Christians.
Not at all, I have no reason to. If I'm attracted to someone I will know. It seems that my brain prefers women over men. If the case changes then i changes.
It has to be the same for gays.
What isn't? I need some clarity.
Thinking that you are attracted to guys and not actually lusting for them is not a sin.
I don't have it backwards. We are both correct on regards to what Christians do since Christians vary from place to place and from person to person.
It wasn't meant to be an insult. It was simply my opinion. You say A causes B because everyone uses A to explain B. I think that B always existed and A was invented to explain it. Homosexuality is different and I think people would be opposed to it on general principles. I don't think that someone actually saw the Bible passage and just decided that homosexuality is a high priority. But, maybe you are right.
So, saying that someone is gay automatically means they are constantly lusting is unfair and part of the problem I have here. Why are they considered different? A man who lusts outside of his marriage is still considered Christian.
Again, you are breaking this down too far. It seems as if you keep missing the purpose of my posts. I never used the word "automatically". The bible says the man has committed adultery anyways and if a man does this while Christian and married questions his Christianity. That's all I am saying.
Why are they considered different? A man who lusts outside of his marriage is still considered Christian.
Nevermind. You still missed my purpose. In fact I don't feel like continuing. I'm quite tired.
I am really sorry about the automatically part. I was confused because you used the word constantly when just lusting at all is a sin. I agree that if homosexuality is just another sin it would be like lusting outside of marriage.
The bible says the man has committed adultery anyways and if a man does this while Christian and married questions his Christianity.
Is that true? Answer one question for me. Have you ever heard a Christian who has constantly committed adultery ever be considered not to be a Christian?
By definition, it's impossible for me to witness that happening unless I'm not the priest involved. And I'm not a priest.
However, I've heard a preaching priest speak of it. It's also part of the canon in the Greek Christian church. I would be very surprised if it was different in the Catholic church.
How does communion work? You are only able to tell if you received communion and no one else?
However, I've heard a preaching priest speak of it. It's also part of the canon in the Greek Christian church. I would be very surprised if it was different in the Catholic church.
How does communion work? You are only able to tell if you received communion and no one else?
Usually, the person is warned that he's excluded, so he doesn't even try to receive it. I haven't ever wintessed the very improbable situation when they'd try to do it despite the warning. I haven't ever seen a meteorite fall, either.
Any idea which part?
Nope, I'm not going to look it up and translate it into English, just because you asked.
What a shock, you missed the entire point again. Can you grasp a person admitting their sin verses denying their sin. To deny a sin that God clearly points out in the Bible, is to deny the God you claim to follow.
Christians freely admit when they have sinned & do not try to condone it.
You missed the entire point again. What other sin do people commit that automatically makes them not a Christian? Name one. I am still waiting. I never seem to get an answer.
You are twisting words & lying once again. I never said there was any particular sin that would make them not a Christian. Now listen carefully before you read into it what you want.
It is my humble belief that the only sin that would make you not a Christian, would be the sin of denial & not admitting it's a sin in the first place. If the Bible says something is a sin & you deny it, then you are saying God is wrong & you do not agree with God. if that is the case, then why claim to be a Christian because you obviously want to follow your own politically correct man made religion.
Homosexuality is a sin as is adultery, as is many other's. It matters not the sin, it matters do you admit it is a sin. We all sin & if we do it & say it is not a sin, then we deny God's word. Pretty simple.
Homosexuals will say it is not a sin as will pro abortion people say abortion is not a sin. The Bible is very clear on these subjects. I believe any church that denies it is a false church following the world's man made politically correct religion.
You are twisting words & lying once again. I never said there was any particular sin that would make them not a Christian. Now listen carefully before you read into it what you want.
I never actually said you said that. But, it is clear that you think Gay is that sin since you posted on the yes side.
It is my humble belief that the only sin that would make you not a Christian, would be the sin of denial & not admitting it's a sin in the first place. If the Bible says something is a sin & you deny it, then you are saying God is wrong & you do not agree with God. if that is the case, then why claim to be a Christian because you obviously want to follow your own politically correct man made religion.
Every Christian picks and chooses what is ok to do. This criteria is not helping at all.
Homosexuality is a sin as is adultery, as is many other's. It matters not the sin, it matters do you admit it is a sin. We all sin & if we do it & say it is not a sin, then we deny God's word. Pretty simple.
People speak far more with their actions than with their words. How many adulterers have you claimed were not Christians?
Homosexuals will say it is not a sin as will pro abortion people say abortion is not a sin. The Bible is very clear on these subjects. I believe any church that denies it is a false church following the world's man made politically correct religion.
Religion is man made. You aren't affected by "fake churches".
Christians invented a religion where you can do whatever you want as long as you tell an imaginary character that you did it. Imagine a person who celebrates the bad things they do with their imaginary friend. Now imagine someone who doesn't go around talking about all the bad things they do.
You can't be a Christian and be gay. Yes you can. It is not a sin to be tempted, otherwise Jesus would be a sinner. Homosexuality is a sin. 2 Samuel 1:26, 1 Corinthians 7:7-9, 1 Samuel 18:1,3,21, 20:30, 41-42, Hebrews 4:15, and so on.
By a technical point of view, some Christians are homosexual so it's technically possible that you can be Christian and gay. I am not a Christian but I've heard that Jesus Christ wanted everyone to be treated equally. I've heard the phrase "Treat thy neighbor as thyself" or something similar to that many times. But now that I actually think about that, homophobic Christians (such as yourself) are not treating their homosexual "neighbors" as thyself. Unless the Bible and Jesus Christ made up an exception: that homosexuals are lesser human beings and do not deserve equal rights as heterosexuals. Then according to the Bible, Christians are not allowed to be gay. But, I've also heard a lot from these discussions that the Bible contradicts itself frequently. I don't own a Bible so I can't say that it does. I'm saying yes, Christians can be gay, but it is technically a sin if they are. But also according to the Bible, wearing clothing with more than one type of material is a sin as well (which doesn't make any sense.)
By a technical point of view, some Christians are homosexual so it's technically possible that you can be Christian and gay.
I would like to point out that you can't be a gay Christian just like you can't be a murdering Christian, a lying Christian, a cheating Christian, and the list goes on and on. This is because in 1st Corinthinans 6:9-11, Paul clearly lists the things that won't inherit the Kingdom of God such as murderers, liars, idolaters, homosexuals and so on. Christian's are supposed to repent of their sinful ways, if they don't repent of their ways then they will be only be continuing to sin, and aren't doing what God calls Christians to do which is to go and sin no more. He didn't say to keep on sinning. That's why I say that you can't be a homosexual and a Christian.
I am not a Christian but I've heard that Jesus Christ wanted everyone to be treated equally. I've heard the phrase "Treat thy neighbor as thyself" or something similar to that many times. But now that I actually think about that, homophobic Christians (such as yourself) are not treating their homosexual "neighbors" as thyself.
I still love gay people, I just don't approve of their sin that they are in.
But, I've also heard a lot from these discussions that the Bible contradicts itself frequently. I don't own a Bible so I can't say that it does.
It doesn't actually. You just have to read in context of what it's trying to say. Most of the "supposed contradictions" are actually complementary meaning that they are adding on to what the person is saying.
But also according to the Bible, wearing clothing with more than one type of material is a sin as well (which doesn't make any sense.)
That was in the Old Testament, and it was directed towards Israel for which they had to follow those rules. Christians are under a new covenant now so we don't have to follow those Old Testament rules.
I would like to point out that you can't be a gay Christian just like you can't be a murdering Christian, a lying Christian, a cheating Christian, and the list goes on and on. This is because in 1st Corinthinans 6:9-11, Paul clearly lists the things that won't inherit the Kingdom of God such as murderers, liars, idolaters, homosexuals and so on. Christian's are supposed to repent of their sinful ways, if they don't repent of their ways then they will be only be continuing to sin, and aren't doing what God calls Christians to do which is to go and sin no more. He didn't say to keep on sinning. That's why I say that you can't be a homosexual and a Christian. No true Scotsman fallacy. Gays can be Christian.
You said that gays cannot be Christian and I pointed out that you used the no true Scotsman fallacy. Fact: Gays can be Christian. There is nothing wrong with being gay. Who are you to force religion on people?
But I supplied facts, and evidence to support my statement above. Which clearly you didn't read and just said a short statement.
I'm not forcing religion on anybody. I'm just doing what Jesus call's people to do and that is to spread the Gospel, and part of the Gospel is to go and sin no more and repent of your sin and to discontinue the sin that you're doing and follow Jesus.
Yes, I did. I provide scriptural evidence of it. Looks like you didn't read it but I'll say it again.
You can't be a gay Christian, just like you can't be a murdering Christian, a lying Christian, a cheating Christian, a stealing Christian, and so on. That's why in 1st Corinthians 6-9-11, Paul clearly says the things that will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but some of them repented and turned away from the sin that was in the Church of Corinth.
Remember what Jesus said to that prostitute who was found in adultery by the Pharisees? What did Jesus say? Jesus said, Go and sin no more. Jesus didn't say go and continue on sinning.
The only way for gays to be a Christian is if they repent of their sin (homosexuality) and turn from it and follow Jesus and never do it again.
The people who are gay Christians they will fall into the category of people that God will say to them that He never knew them because they practiced sin.
Luke 23:32-43 would like a word with you. To be fair, though, it's the only one of the canon gospels that describe one of the rebels/thieves/criminals (depending on translation) as being accepting of jesus; John doesn't mention them at all, and Matthew and Mark both state that both rebels/thieves/criminals.
Also, Paul of Tarsus is a false prophet who's works only got into the Bible because the devil manipulated the early church to ensure that some of the work he inspired got in alongside the word of god- hence the gross inconsistencies between Pauls interpretation of what Jesus was all about vs. the interpretation offered by his actual disciples.
Luke 23:32-43 would like a word with you. To be fair, though, it's the only one of the canon gospels that describe one of the rebels/thieves/criminals (depending on translation) as being accepting of jesus; John doesn't mention them at all, and Matthew and Mark both state that both rebels/thieves/criminals.
Only if they repent of their sin and turn to Christ they shall get into Heaven
Also, Paul of Tarsus is a false prophet who's works only got into the Bible because the devil manipulated the early church to ensure that some of the work he inspired got in alongside the word of god- hence the gross inconsistencies between Pauls interpretation of what Jesus was all about vs. the interpretation offered by his actual disciples.
Paul wasn't a false prophet. He is one of the apostles. He saw God when he was persecuting other Christians and then he later on got healed, and became a believer.
Only if they repent of their sin and turn to Christ they shall get into Heaven
Exactly. The same requirements that apply to everybody else. If any sinner can be Christian, that includes gays. Christians are not without sin, and though they may try to avoid it, just about every Christian makes intentional actions that are in some way or other sinful. If a person can be forgiven after having premarital sex, certainly forgiveness for homosexual sex is possible. Imagine a homosexual christian who really tries his best not to even look at other guys, serve the lord, and all. Occasionally he has a moment of weakness and commits the sin, and seeks forgiveness. Putting aside the fact that I'd feel terribly sorry for the miserable man- how is this that scenario ANY different from how any other Christian conducts himself or herself? Such a scenario is certainly possible, and I'd wager it's occurred before. I imagine some of them might even have been priests. Ergo, there is at least one possible scenario where a gay could be christian; this satisfies the yes condition for 'Can gays be Christians' pretty definitively the way I see it.
Paul wasn't a false prophet. He is one of the apostles. He saw God when he was persecuting other Christians and then he later on got healed, and became a believer.
So you say. I say he's a liar and an agent of satan, and that he exploited the weakness of man to pervert the very word of god, with the simultaneous goals of misleading the faithful and introducing inconsistencies that cast severe doubt as to the credibility of the Bible. A devastating attack on Christianity, and entirely in line with the motives and style of the mind that tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.
Exactly. The same requirements that apply to everybody else. If any sinner can be Christian, that includes gays. Christians are not without sin, and though they may try to avoid it, just about every Christian makes intentional actions that are in some way or other sinful. If a person can be forgiven after having premarital sex, certainly forgiveness for homosexual sex is possible. Imagine a homosexual christian who really tries his best not to even look at other guys, serve the lord, and all. Occasionally he has a moment of weakness and commits the sin, and seeks forgiveness. Putting aside the fact that I'd feel terribly sorry for the miserable man- how is this that scenario ANY different from how any other Christian conducts himself or herself? Such a scenario is certainly possible, and I'd wager it's occurred before. I imagine some of them might even have been priests. Ergo, there is at least one possible scenario where a gay could be christian; this satisfies the yes condition for 'Can gays be Christians' pretty definitively the way I see it.
They would have to leave that lifestyle behind in order for them to be forgiven. If they are still in that certain lifestyle or continuing to do the same sin over and over again then then they are just continuing what they are practicing and aren't really living what Christ ought to live. It's no different than anything else for somebody who is continuing to steal, lie, cheat, or kill and claims to be Christian.
So you say. I say he's a liar and an agent of satan, and that he exploited the weakness of man to pervert the very word of god, with the simultaneous goals of misleading the faithful and introducing inconsistencies that cast severe doubt as to the credibility of the Bible. A devastating attack on Christianity, and entirely in line with the motives and style of the mind that tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit.
That's not what I say. I didn't write it down, it was Luke who wrote down how Paul became a believer. I'm only restating what the Bible said about how Paul became a believer, and to which I actually trust what that the Bible is telling the truth about Paul.
They would have to leave that lifestyle behind in order for them to be forgiven. If they are still in that certain lifestyle or continuing to do the same sin over and over again then then they are just continuing what they are practicing and aren't really living what Christ ought to live. It's no different than anything else for somebody who is continuing to steal, lie, cheat, or kill and claims to be Christian.
Being gay is not a 'lifestyle.' It is a sexual orientation. It does not come with mandatory fascination with musical theater or interior decorating. They can leave that lifestyle behind in the same manner that a christian male with no intentions of getting married can leave sexual immorality behind; that is, they can fully intend to live that way, but their natural urges and attractions remain. I assert that if simply doing the same sin over and over again is sufficient to disqualify one from forgiveness, then NOBODY can expect salvation. I bet if you looked at yourself criticially and honestly, you'll find a sin that you commit habitually without even intending to do so or giving it second thought. But regardless, your response here supports the 'Yes' side of this argument- because just because they abstained from sex, they haven't ceased being gay, ergo gays can be christians under the right circumstances.
That's not what I say. I didn't write it down, it was Luke who wrote down how Paul became a believer. I'm only restating what the Bible said about how Paul became a believer, and to which I actually trust what that the Bible is telling the truth about Paul.
Eve trusted the Serpent too, and ate of the fruit.
Being gay is not a 'lifestyle.' It is a sexual orientation. It does not come with mandatory fascination with musical theater or interior decorating. They can leave that lifestyle behind in the same manner that a christian male with no intentions of getting married can leave sexual immorality behind; that is, they can fully intend to live that way, but their natural urges and attractions remain. I assert that if simply doing the same sin over and over again is sufficient to disqualify one from forgiveness, then NOBODY can expect salvation. I bet if you looked at yourself criticially and honestly, you'll find a sin that you commit habitually without even intending to do so or giving it second thought. But regardless, your response here supports the 'Yes' side of this argument- because just because they abstained from sex, they haven't ceased being gay, ergo gays can be christians under the right circumstances.
It's a lifestyle, a sinful one just like all the rest if continued. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I sin as well, but I try not to sin on purpose, and yes sometimes I do try not to sin some days.
Eve trusted the Serpent too, and ate of the fruit.
It's a lifestyle, a sinful one just like all the rest if continued. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I sin as well, but I try not to sin on purpose, and yes sometimes I do try not to sin some days.
No, it's not a lifestyle. Being gay simply means being attracted to the same sex instead of the opposite. Unless you believe that everything about life is focused on sex, that does not constitute a lifestyle- sorry, no way, no how. Some ways that people try not to sin on purpose is succumbing to their desires and engaging in sexual immorality; they don't cease being christians because of this, they repent and try not to succumb again in the future. I don't see why the immorality in question being gay would somehow make it any different in that respect.
What does that have to do with Paul?
I'll give you an exercise to do yourself. You will need a Bible (any translation, your preference), some paper or a notebook, and a pen or pencil.
Do your best to avoid inserting anything other than what you are currently reading into your thought process, as difficult as that may be. Read through the Gospels, as well as Acts, and make note of Jesus' stance on various matters, the message he is teaching, who he is teaching it to, etc. Write each of these down in shorthand form, noting the abbreviated verse that it appears in, etc. Use as many pages as necessary to get you through Acts, and set these aside. Next, read through the various works attributed to Paul. Repeat your original process, noting the overall stance suggested by Paul in his various statements and letters, the message he is teaching, who he is teaching it to, etc. Again, only note those that you can attach an immediate scriptural reference to as you read through. Again, use as many pages as necessary to get through as much of Paul's work as you wish to investigate. When done, compare the two lists you've compiled. If you've done your research honestly and avoided preconceptions, you will notice that Paul paints a starkly different picture of Jesus and Christianity than Luke or the others do. And Paul came in at just the right moment to be a huge influence right when Christianity was first starting to expand. Don't take my word for it- please, read through this and give it a go yourself.
No, it's not a lifestyle. Being gay simply means being attracted to the same sex instead of the opposite. Unless you believe that everything about life is focused on sex, that does not constitute a lifestyle- sorry, no way, no how. Some ways that people try not to sin on purpose is succumbing to their desires and engaging in sexual immorality; they don't cease being christians because of this, they repent and try not to succumb again in the future. I don't see why the immorality in question being gay would somehow make it any different in that respect.
It's a lifestyle. According to Webster's dictionary it says that a lifestyle is the typical way of life of an individual, group, or culture.
It's a lifestyle. According to Webster's dictionary it says that a lifestyle is the typical way of life of an individual, group, or culture.
This is exactly why it's NOT a lifestyle. Even the most sexually active people don't spend the majority of their time having sex. It's not a 'way of life' it's simply being attracted to the same sex instead of the opposite sex.
This is like saying being attracted to blondes is a lifestyle. Ridiculous. No, it's not a lifestyle. Try again.
I disagree. Gays can be Christians. Anyone can believe in Yeshua. Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin. Are you saying that it is a sin for me to be bisexual?
Again you didn't read what I had to say. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. I'm done debating with you because we are getting nowhere.
You said: "You can't be a Christian and be gay. It's impossible to be those two. If you're really a Christian you would know that homosexuality is a sin and that God doesn't approve of such lifestyle." What do you mean by this?
That was my very first argument to this debate. This is what I said providing actual facts about this case right here:
" I would like to point out that you can't be a gay Christian just like you can't be a murdering Christian, a lying Christian, a cheating Christian, and the list goes on and on. This is because in 1st Corinthinans 6:9-11, Paul clearly lists the things that won't inherit the Kingdom of God such as murderers, liars, idolaters, homosexuals and so on. Christian's are supposed to repent of their sinful ways, if they don't repent of their ways then they will be only be continuing to sin, and aren't doing what God calls Christians to do which is to go and sin no more. He didn't say to keep on sinning. That's why I say that you can't be a homosexual and a Christian."
A no true scotsman fallacy is an unreasoned assertion. I have a reasonable assertion. You just refuse to even look at my arguments and ignore my points. According to God in whom you believe in to Him it is a choice.
Romans 1:26 it talks about how women and men exchanged natural relations to unnatural ones.
Romans 1:26 does not speak of men and women choosing to be gay- it speaks of God compelling men and women to feel 'unnatural' lusts for one another. They did not choose to be Gay- god MADE them gay. This does not establish homosexuality as a choice, or even make the slightest implication to that effect.
And while we're on the topic, natural/unnatural is highly misused here, as homosexual activity is observed throughout the animal kingdom. You can call it immoral if you like, but it's far from unnatural.
Wrong. You are using the no true Scotsman fallacy when you try to assert your own bigotry on God. Homosexuality is not a choice, so it cannot be a sin. I did not choose to be bisexual, so what you are saying is really offensive. You need to read 2 Samuel 1:26.
Nowhere in the bible is that written out, Srom. In the Bible it insinuates that sexual intercourse between two men is a sin, but only someone who fundamentally does not understand what homosexuality is would claim that means that all homosexuality is a sin.
And can you point out where in the bible it insinuates or flat out claims that one's sexuality (NOT sexual acts) is a choice?
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature
Use and affections implies ACTIONS, which is the main fallacy that you are making. Homosexuality is an orientation, and can exist devoid of any actions pertaining to it. One can be a homosexual without showing any affections or making any "use" of their own body or others bodies that exhibit said sexuality.
So I ask you again: Can you show a single quote where the bible condemns HomoSEXUALITY, as opposed to homosexual activity?
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
As I have tried to explain to you before, one can be a homosexual without taking part in ANY homosexual activities. Any condemnation in the bible regarding homosexuality is regarding homosexual ACTIONS, not homosexuality itself, which as I have tried to explain to you, is a sexual ORIENTATION. You do not seem to understand what homosexuality actually is, and are instead focused on actions. If someone is a homosexual man (the bible doesn't seem to say much of anything about lesbians) but has not had sex with another man, then they have not gone against any of the relevant condemnations within the bible. Do you recognize that?
As I have tried to explain to you before, one can be a homosexual without taking part in ANY homosexual activities. Any condemnation in the bible regarding homosexuality is regarding homosexual ACTIONS, not homosexuality itself, which as I have tried to explain to you, is a sexual ORIENTATION. You do not seem to understand what homosexuality actually is, and are instead focused on actions. If someone is a homosexual man (the bible doesn't seem to say much of anything about lesbians) but has not had sex with another man, then they have not gone against any of the relevant condemnations within the bible. Do you recognize that?
Even if they are a homosexual, and they don't commit homosexual acts. It's still a sin to look at someone with lust because that's called adultery.
And there in lies the problem: Lust is a reaction to another's physical appearance. It is not an actual action or choice, it is simply the way your mind reacts to external stimuli. So what you are saying is that homosexuals, by nature of existing, are sinning, even if they are repentant about their homosexuality. Which means that god created a situation in which there is no chance of some of his children going to heaven.
I don't think you know what repenting means because repenting means that they actually fully turn away from the sin. They don't continue to do it, and it's possible to stop lusting after women or men.
I know exactly what repenting means, you just don't understand the concept of human sexuality. You can't decide to stop finding people attractive, that is impossible as attraction is not an active choice. Lusting after someone means you see them and are attracted, at least by the context you are implying. If that is the case, it is a split second reaction that occurs before any sort of conscientious choice has been made. One does not see an individual and think to themselves "Hmm, I think I am going to choose to find that person attractive".
Lusting is not only seeing them attractive. It's also the thought that counts as well that person could be fantasizing about having sex with that person.
In that case, one can indeed be homosexual, find the same sex attractive (though not "lust" after them) and be Christian so long as they do not perform any sexual acts with the same sex (though, again, the bible is rather quiet regarding lesbians).
Even if they are a homosexual, and they don't commit homosexual acts. It's still a sin to look at someone with lust because that's called adultery.
And by extension, even if they are a heterosexual, and they don't commit heterosexual acts, It's still a sin to look at someone with lust because that's called adultery.
By this logic, the only ones who can be christians are those who are completely asexual.
You are wrong. The word homosexual did not exist when the Bible was written. You are misintepretting the true meaning of "arsenokoitai which is a term that applies to religious prostitution. You are projecting your own prejudice onto God. God has no problem with gays. Homosexuality is not a choice, so it cannot be a sin.
Appeal to nature fallacy. There is nothing wrong with being gay. The Bible supports same sex marriage in 2 Samuel 1:26. Just because gays cannot procreate does not mean that they are doing anything wrong.
I have every right to be offended when you hate gays and bisexuals like me. I did not choose to be bisexual, so for you to say that I am going to Hell is just wrong.
You don't seem to understand what Christianity is, which is ironic. Christianity is the worship of Jesus and the belief in the Judeo-Abrahamic God. One can be sexually attracted to people of the same sex whilst holding those beliefs.
I do understand what Christianity is. I believe it. It's believing in Jesus Christ as your personal savior. In order to accept Christ you must admit that you are a sinner, and repent of your wrong doings meaning turning away from that sin, and not doing it again in order for you to be forgiven.
Many times in the Bible, it talks about how men and women are for each other. It does talk about how being a homosexual is a sin.
Then provide one quote from the bible that says that being sexually attracted to members of the same sex is a sin. Note that I did not say having sexual interactions with members of the same sex, because that is a sexual act and not sexuality itself.
And there are homosexuals out there who, for reasons I do not understand, claim that they are sinners for their deeds and repent. You have insinuated that not even they can be considered Christian, despite the fact that they are both homosexual AND repentant.
Right. And that's why divorced people aren't Christian. And people who have every had sex before marriage. And everyone who gets tattoos. And everyone who even THINKS about committing adultery (Yeah, the bible says that if you even image cheating on your partner you have broken one of the 10 Commandments.) Because if you're Christian you know the Bible says you can't do these things, and God doesn't approve.
Wow. Guess there aren't a whole lot of Christians around at all...
I actually think that most Christians are not against gays. If you want to hang out with your Christian friends and actually do stuff with a religious group it would be nice to be able to join their club.
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
The Bible is vague on many things but it is extremely clear about homosexuality. People who have homosexual relationships care more about their desires than about not sinning.
I'm not here to judge any sin & who is or is not Christian. I will explain the difference in my mind to a Christian & a non Christian.
Can you understand the difference between a person admitting their sin verses denying their sin. To deny a sin that God clearly points out in the Bible, is to deny the God you claim to follow.
Christians freely admit when they have sinned & do not try to condone it. There in lies the main difference with any person who says he is a Christian but refuses to believe & accept God's word. Christians accept the words in the Bible an do not try to tell God he is wrong.
I truly believe that all these attempts at bringing Christianity down to an anything goes religion is a deliberate attempt from the Left to tear the Christian faith apart. Liberals are very happy with the Liberal churches who support Gay pastors, Gay marriage, abortion, etc.
It's those evil so called Right wing fundamentalist churches that Liberals despise. Those Bible believing people actually believe what the Bible says. HOW DARE THEY FOLLOW THEIR FAITH! Their faith goes against political correctness! The Left ridicules them every chance on sitcoms, movies, news outlets, most all media. They would have you believe that all evangelists are corrupt fakes looking for money. They will never show Christians in a good light when they help millions of poor people around the world each & every day.
Why do you suppose they spend so much time trying to tear down the written word in the Bible? Ask yourself why that one faith is their thorn while all other religions are not spoken against. Ask yourself why the plight of a small number of Gays is CONSTANTLY lifted up while most other ridiculed groups never get special mention. Ask yourself why that is. Could it be that the Gay issue goes against the Bible & therefore gets forced down our throats each & every day. Have you ever noticed how the very issues near & dear to a Liberal's heart goes contrary to the Bible?
This is not rocket science hear. Big Government Liberals want no competition from God. They want to control you & your children's minds with political correctness. They want to control our nation & as we see with Obama getting elected twice, they are winning. They have seduced you with free subsidies on the backs of tax payers to get your vote. They don't care that we are going bankrupt. Wake up please!
It speaks to something rather scary within you that instead of noticing that people simply having differing opinions, it has to instead be a deliberate, conceited conspiracy against you and your beliefs.
"Conservatives are very happy with the Conservative Churches who are against gay pastors, same-sex marriage, against abortion, etc.
It's those evil so called Left wing churches that Conservatives despise. Those bible believing people who actually believe what the Bible says. HOW DARE THEY FOLLOW THEIR FAITH! Their faith goes against my political views! The right ridicules them every chance on political commentary programs, internet forums, political newspapers, most all conservative media. They would have you believe that all liberals are corrupt fakes looking to bring down Christianity. They will never show Liberal Christians in a good light when they help millions of poor people around the world each & every day.
Why do you suppose they spend so much time trying to dear down what other people believe regarding the Bible? Ask yourself why that one political ideology is their thorn while all other ideologies are not spoken against."
I could keep going, but pointing out how ridiculous you are being is getting somewhat tiring. Stop with your persecution complex, dude. Some people have beliefs that differ from yours, and that really is all there is to it.
Considering homosexuality is one of the most clear cuts wrongdoings in Christianity i find it comical the further we get in time the more grey this topic gets. Being "christian" means Christ like and while he was the most loving compassionate human to walk the earth these qualities did not conflict with his strong moral standards. Ex. Turning the money changers. People often say we cant "judge" and "god loves all" and while this is true god is also "just" and has standards.
Dude, now I'm really worried for the US. I was not aware your judges were high on drugs.
Your swaying between (sort of) intellegent discourse, and absolute retardedness, makes me think you are a doper.
I was comparing the notion of gay Christians, to Christian executioners. Both are absurd. I never said a Christian could be an executioner, and anyone who is even remotely intellegent, could see that from my post.
Your swaying between (sort of) intellegent discourse, and absolute retardedness, makes me think you are a doper.
Says the guy who accuses everyone of being high on drugs in the same post he defends himself in.
I was comparing the notion of gay Christians, to Christian executioners.
And, you are the first person to compare gays to other sinners. I don't have a problem with you comparing gays to other sinners. I would prefer that to all the other Christians on here who only consider gays and never think of other sins.
Both are absurd.
No, you have it backwards. Neither is absurd. It is about desire to be a Christian.
I never said a Christian could be an executioner, and anyone who is even remotely intellegent, could see that from my post.
Your point was that an executioner can't be a Christian. The executioner has a job to do and may still want to be a Christian. What makes someone who is an executioner not a Christian?
Says the guy who accuses everyone of being high on drugs in the same post he defends himself in.
Like the song goes, "So fucking what yeah?" (Metallica)
And, you are the first person to compare gays to other sinners
Maybe on this site. But I'm not the first and not the last.
No, you have it backwards. Neither is absurd. It is about desire to be a Christian.
Being Christian is not about "desire". It's about following Christ.
The executioner has a job to do and may still want to be a Christian. What makes someone who is an executioner not a Christian?
Because he is breaking the commandment, and doing it not out of necessity (whereas you can repent and be forgiven), but just to earn money. A true Christian needs only what's enough to survive. An executioner is not such an easy post to acquire - you need to have been in the military or the police, e.t.c. So, there were no objective reasons for you not to have settled for a different job, which does not require violence.
Maybe on this site. But I'm not the first and not the last.
They claim to, but keep having special rules that never apply to other sinners.
Because he is breaking the commandment, and doing it not out of necessity (whereas you can repent and be forgiven), but just to earn money. A true Christian needs only what's enough to survive. An executioner is not such an easy post to acquire - you need to have been in the military or the police, e.t.c. So, there were no objective reasons for you not to have settled for a different job, which does not require violence.
I think under your definition no one is a true Christian. Someone has to do the violent jobs and that includes Christians. I don't think your stance makes sense. But, at least you are consistent.
