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Debate Info

19
8
Yes No
Debate Score:27
Arguments:93
Total Votes:27
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (13)
 
 No (8)

Debate Creator

HarvardGrad(174) pic



Can suicide be rational?

Do not confuse this topic with morality. Avoid using "If you were slowly dying".

Yes

Side Score: 19
VS.

No

Side Score: 8
3 points

I feel as though it is selfish to call someone selfish for committing suicide. If they are living a life of misery and they end it, just because your "happy" life is now interrupted by the death of a love one does not make them selfish. It makes you selfish for wanting them to live in misery to sustain your happiness. Quite frankly, it makes you tyrannical to want to keep someone miserable just to keep you happy.

Side: Yes
thousandin1(1931) Clarified
3 points

Couldn't that be just as easily flipped around by noting that there is typically more than one person close to a person who commits suicide? That a person who commits suicide is deciding that their personal suffering trumps the combined suffering of all of those who care about them?

I'm not suggesting that we blame either or that discussing who is or isn't selfish is either appropriate or beneficial here, just that the whole 'selfish' angle is far from simple.

Side: Yes
HarvardGrad(174) Clarified
1 point

None of that matters when the person is dead. All that matters is the person give back to the physical Earth. Not be worried with someone's "emotions" because their emotions are irrelevant to the Earth.

Side: Yes

I believe that some forms of suicide may be rational. Suicide in the form of a meaningful sacrifice, for example, could be a rationally made decision looking at the alternatives.

I must stress though that I only voted 'yes' here because of the wording of the argument, mainly the word 'can.' I don't believe that a significant portion of suicides could be described as being sacrifices, and I don't believe that this instance is what was intended when the debate was created.

If I were to answer the question 'is suicide generally rational' or usually, or something to that effect, I would have to offer a resounding no. The survival instinct is one of the most basic ones common to all life. I don't believe that a mind enduring pain (physical or emotional) sufficient to override that instinct remotely rational. This isn't to say that suicide is never a reasonable decision under such circumstances- but I'm fairly confident that that much pain skews the ability to make accurate value assessments. I hate to put it that way, because it amounts to a tautology, saying that suicidal people are irrational because they are suicidal- but given what we know of the human mind, I believe it's more the case that suicidal people are irrational for the same reasons that they are suicidal; a shared cause.

One can be completely calm and collected, but still not be rational if their ability to assess value is compromised.

Of course, that kind of begs another question entirely, given that value assessment is itself subjective...

You know what? I'm going to just call this one my opinion- I can't honestly provide any evidence to support my stance- I'd love to hear from others on the matter.

Side: Yes
SitaraMusica(536) Clarified
1 point

How does it beg the question? .

Side: Yes
thousandin1(1931) Clarified
1 point

The rationale I offered was that the level of pain in question would compromise the ability of an individual to make accurate value assessments- but in order to prove this, we would need to demonstrate that the value assessments were in fact inaccurate. Value is an innately subjective thing, and when you are talking about subjective valuation of subjective experience it gets even hazier; it's really speculation and nothing more.

Side: Yes
2 points

Why should you live if you don't want to? Why not die?

Side: Yes
2 points

That is what I said. What is the point of living if you cannot live how you want?

Side: Yes

Yes it can. If someone has too many problems like cancer, they should be able to die with dignity.

Side: Yes
HarvardGrad(174) Clarified
1 point

Lol I said avoid using "already dying." Like if someone hated life, would it then be rational to end it?

Side: Yes
SitaraMusica(536) Clarified
1 point

Whether someone is dying or not is an essential part of this debate. If someone is dying, they have the right to kill themselves.

Side: Yes
SitaraMusica(536) Clarified
1 point

It depends on why they hate life. .

Side: Yes

Yes. What is the point of suffering and pain (even to the minimal) if you can just, not exist? I would say it is the only true peace. But of course even peace would not exist.

Side: Yes
1 point

I don't know if this is considered suicide, but if someone whom you would be miserable without is in extreme danger and your death will save them, this is rational. Your world as you know it ends regardless, this way you leave a beautiful world rather than a miserable one. I hope that doesn't break the ground rules.

Side: Yes
DrawFour(2662) Clarified
1 point

I'm not arguing with the rationale, but I just want to say this, and I would to any person claiming this as their reason for suicide:

Would it really be fair to leave this world behind to save someone you couldn't live without, if they also could not live without you? I mean when their life was on the line, some could call it fate, it was what was happening so it should have played out, but when you jumped in to give your own life, you messed with the way things were going. I feel it's selfish.

Side: Yes
1 point

"but when you jumped in to give your own life, you messed with the way things were going."

How do you know that wasn't fate?

How can you base your argument off of fate if it is impossible to know?

Side: No
Amarel(5564) Disputed
1 point

What if the other person was your child? Or just someone you're stalking?

It may be selfish in certain contexts, but that doesn't mean it's irrational

Side: No
HarvardGrad(174) Clarified
1 point

If someone lived a miserable life alone and they commit suicide because of it, is that irrational? What is the point of living miserably alone with no kids? (I say kids just in case you try and counter with "obligatory factors"

Side: Yes
Amarel(5564) Clarified
1 point

If someone lived a miserable life alone and they commit suicide because of it, is that irrational?

Is their misery rational? Before we determine the rationality of suicide we should consider the alternatives. Maybe the misery stems from a chemical imbalance. In this case, continued misery is irrational given modern assistance. Misery is a state of life that need not continue, suicide is not the only way to end it.

If misery can be ended, and happiness found (negating the desire for suicide), then it cannot be concluded that suicide is a rational alternative.

The rationality of suicide would need to be determined by conditions other than misery.

Side: Yes
1 point

Anything can be rational. It all depends on how the individual rationalizes it. If a person can go from the idea that their are too many ferrets on this planet, to the idea that they need to die, to help the problem of too many ferrets, then they've rationalized it.

What's rational to some isn't always rational to others.

Side: Yes
1 point

Yes, a rational decision to end your life is possible. It need only be based in reason and logic to qualify as rational.

For example: It is possible that a serial child molester, can reason that their acts are heinous. It is equally possible that such an individual might have a reasoned awareness that they are completely unable to control their compulsion enough to stop the behavior. Given that this situation is rationally possible, such a person could come to a reasonable, logical decision to commit suicide.

Side: Yes
1 point

Where are the believers? SROM? Come out, come out where ever you are.

Side: No