CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
Those two cities are 1100 miles apart. But if Democrats tend to have racist city policies, then their may be a commonality of racism between Baltimore and Minneapolis.
Even so, unless you demonstrate that a study of Baltimore provides the cause of an individual's action in Minneapolis, your just blowing smoke. You might as well say that a black guy mugged you once to justify your white hood and cloak.
You wanna fire people because they wear blue? Wtf?
Hello again, A:
It's like I said.. I UNDERSTAND what endemic means, and you don't..
Here.. Lemme help you out. Racism occurs between individuals on an interpersonal level. It gets embedded in organizations and institutions through their practices.
It may seem easier to recognize an individual act of racism: a slur made, a person ignored, an act of violence. Systemic racism, however, stems from the policies, practices, and procedures entrenched in established institutions.
It differs from overt racism in that individual discrimination isn't necessary. Lemme say that again. Individual racism is NOT required.
Individual racism, itself, is not created in a vacuum. It instead, emerges from a society's foundational norms about how the way things are, and how the way things have always been done.
When a cop goes against those norms, he gets his ass killed. If you wanna SEE how that works on the ground, rent the movie Serpico.
I'll quote the headlights of your source. "Racist Police Practices Are Endemic in Baltimore".
Not only have you not shown how the officer was racially motivated, but you failed to show how his department is racist. You've failed to show that they have racist policies and practices. You've failed to show anything except for an article about a city a thousand miles away. A city with different policies and practices. Your best explanation is that they wear the same color clothing.
On the other hand, you also said that individual racism need not be precent for endemic racism to exist. Which essentially concedes the fact that nothing indicates racial motivation of the killer beyond his race and that of his victim.
Furthermore, when you see disparate outcomes between races, you have to find racist causes for it to actually be racist. Just saying "it's institutional", is not an explanation. It's not accurate. And it doesn't help. All it does it make ignorant people want to burn shit.
You provided evidence that Baltimore has a problem in order to show that Minneapolis has a problem. The disconnect on paper is obvious. The disconnect in your brain is a mystery.
Maybe if you UNDERSTOOD systemic racism... Nahhh.. Ain't gonna happen.
Maybe if YOU understood it, hypocrite. I'll give you a hint. When someone points out ancestry tests don't have any scientific credibility, that ISN'T systemic racism against Jews. Get it, you completely false scumbag?
Maybe if YOU understood it, hypocrite. I'll give you a hint. When someone points out ancestry tests don't have any scientific credibility, that ISN'T systemic racism against Jews. Get it, you completely false scumbag?
Britain has all of these Coronavirus deaths, and you are attacking Black Liberals. It's most assuredly a mental disorder.
Systemic racism is the catch-all word for people who can't find any racism but want to blame racism. You provided an excellent example.
Denying systemic racism in America is like denying your own dick. No reasonable person would ever do that. Blacks were still being segregated in the US up until the 1980s thanks to your idols like Donald Trump, who was actually sued for it by the federal government.
Disparate outcomes have various, articulable causes. Systemic Racism is one of those causes only when the specifics of that racism can be articulated. It almost never can. Disparate outcomes are not sufficient evidence when those outcomes have so many other actual causes.
Disparate outcomes have various, articulable causes
Similar outcomes often have the same cause. For example, over-complicating your language unnecessarily is frequently symptomatic of narcissism and a compromised capacity for reason. On the one hand, you are trying to convince people you are smarter than them, while on the other your implied premise is that unnecessarily complicating things is an intelligent thing to do.
I've known you for some time now, and what I see invariably in your posts is that you use language to obscure the arguments you are making, simply because the arguments you make are usually stupid and/or rooted in some kind of myth or fallacy. You never write with clarity because the clearer your words, the easier it is to refute the ridiculous ideas they represent.
I've known you for the same amount of time. You invariably claim I have complex language to disguise a supposedly stupid position that you are neither able to identify, nor counter. In other words, you believe that an expression of insecurity concerning comprehension is sufficient to argue against that which isn't comprehended.
Several others on this site were also accused of complex language. They were the ones I enjoyed debating. They could present their position in similarly concise terms (which you take issue with). If something was said that was unclear to one of us, we asked for, and received clarification. Their kind is less common here anymore, as am I.
"Disparate outcomes" is common language among social scientists of this topic. I'm sorry if it appears complex or ruffles your delicate sense of your own abilities.
Good job though on avoiding the point. Get back on point and maybe we'll talk again.
Please do not confuse claims with self-evident facts. You "invariably" and automatically try to blame a difference of opinion whenever anybody points out the striking flaws in your character.
Several others on this site were also accused of complex language.
I am not interested in guilt by association fallacies.
They could present their position in similarly concise terms
If you cannot present something in concise terms then you do not understand it buddy.
"Disparate outcomes" is common language
Firstly, no it isn't. There is no such thing as "common language". You wouldn't use the same language in a courtroom that you would in a public toilet. Your implied premise that language remains constant and unmodified independently of the places and circumstances it is used is false.
Secondly, you have arbitrarily decided, independently of the person who made the accusation, what the exact problem with your language is/was (i.e. a two word phrase, "disparate outcomes"). Hence, you are attacking what is known as a straw man, which is another fallacy you use frequently.
Thirdly, the irony is that if you had the critical insight necessary to identify the issue, you would understand the problem is that you are building entire sentences around these "common" phrases, and it is obvious to a trained eye that you are doing so (i.e. I used to do it myself as a kid!). In other words, you are beginning with a complex phrase and then trying to construct an idea around it, rather than beginning with the idea and then using the right words to explain it.
I study of Baltimore policies says absolutely nothing about the motivations of a guy in Minneapolis.
That's not necessarily true. You are assuming that without cause or evidence, simply because you don't want to consider there might be a connection. If a bunch of Nazi secret police killed some Jews in Dusseldorf, that wouldn't necessarily mean there was no connection to the practices of Nazis elsewhere. Hence, you are equally guilty of the exact same fallacy you are criticising him for!!! Of assuming things without having supporting evidence to demonstrate it.
The Nazis were run by Hitler under a singular hierarchy. Police Departments are controlled by their city leadership. They have individual policies. Police are officers of the state in which they reside.
If you want to assert that something is the case, you have to provide evidence for your case. It cannot be assumed that the policies of the Baltimore PD have any impact on the actions of an officer with the Minneapolis PD. Not without evidence.
If you insist that a connection must be assumed unless there is evidence to the contrary, then you must also prove that you aren't secretly molesting puppies, which can be assumed.
The Nazis were run by Hitler under a singular hierarchy. Police Departments are controlled by their city leadership.
Bullshit. The United States police departments are part of the US Department of Justice at the federal level, and the Department of Public Safety at the state level, which makes them government agencies. See:-
Most states operate statewide government agencies that provide law enforcement duties, including investigations and state patrols. They may be called state police or highway patrol, and are normally part of the state Department of Public Safety.
"Police are officers of the state in which they reside."
If that seems too complex for you, then it's no surprise you would argue that Minneapolis police are in the Baltimore hierarchy. Ever heard of jurisdiction?
What??? From coast to coast, they ALL wear blue.. Dude!
And the badge of the Democratic Party. Is it not bizzare how white Democrat mayors, who believe you aint black if you don't vote Democrat, can tell police to stand down in Portland, yet you can't recognize that they can tell cops to DO other things?
It was pretty obvious what with the record of this particular "peace officer". What is NOT obvious is why he had his hands in his pockets. Was he getting turned on?? Was he enjoying the whole thing?? Either way, it was MURDER!
I was very happy to see that there appeared to be as many white faces in the crowd as black and brown.
First degree is intentional, this was as intentional as it gets! Hard to "prove", yes. But if it was a black or Hispanic cop that did the same to a white person it would be MUCH easier to "prove". THAT'S what people are pissed off about, and those people are of all colors .... finally! :-(
The video is clear. The man is begging for his life gasping for air with labored respirations and a raspy voice. His hands are behind his back already in handcuffs and he is face down being held down by 3 strong men, one of whom has likely the majority of his body weight on his neck. Multiple bystanders ask the officer to stop. When Floyd stops breathing, they plead with the officers to check his pulse and let him breath. This goes on for minutes until they lift his limp lifeless body onto the stretcher.
Now maybe a layperson might be naive enough to put their weight on someone's neck in an effort to subdue them. But police officers are supposed to be trained in basic first aid and CPR as well. That whole team should have identified that the "threat" was under control and that he needed medical attention. And keep in mind this is a course you need to renew every 2 years. He kept his knee on this man's neck after he stopped breathing and they didn't do anything to help him. This leaves one of two options: either the officers were all undertrained and not really equipped to work in the field, or there was some personal desire behind his actions. Those officers did not look at those black people as equals. Had this been a white person, the chain of events never would have led to the same outcome and we all know that.
Whether this murder was racially motivated or not is immaterial.
This event cannot be considered in isolation as it is just one of a number of incidents all of which are perceived by the black community as racially inspired acts of anti-black heavy handed/deadly policing.
The goal must be to consign the blame game to the dust bin and commence on the road to transparent impartial community policing which is acceptable by all sections of society.
Trying to score brownie points on a debating forum solves nothing.
I agree that the bigger issue is the perception of racism. That's what's led to the national catastrophe. But if there are a series of racially charged occurrences, like this one, with a lack of evidence of racism, like this one, then you will have a mass perception that is incorrect.
Nationwide studies that account for crime rates and types do not support the racist cop narrative. Yet that narrative is perpetuated by people with strong a belief in perceived racism.
It was not racially motivated at all why? because its election time and everyone knows that this is more of a political motivated murder. its funny how democrats do this racist issue when its election time then media heats it up to make it look as if only black people where victims of police brutality. let the records speaks for itself there are 42 whites vs 31 of blacks that are killed in 2020 and in the previous years the black still didn't out numbered the whites in this case. and please don't argue about how black peoples population which is only 12.3 percent of the America and still they still suffer almost the same as white people. 40 percent of prisoners are black specifically 592,900 and 499,800 of whites. why are there black prisoners than white because the democrats plans it that why they keep this racism issue alive only when its election time i mean where are these people when 235 black people died last year? again this is politically motivated rather than racially motivated