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I doubt a person's religion has more to do with their future outlook on life, than their actual upbringing. However, I do feel, kids who live in a more privileged area, who are more likely to be going to Church more often, are less likely to become criminals.
So I'd say, children who grow up going to church are less likely to become criminals, but not because they are going to church.
That is false. Poor people attend church more often because it seems like the only place that is meaningful. Also they feel as though attending to "god" will help their situations, whereas the rich do not have as much problems so church attendance is lower. Trust me, I grew up in a "privileged" area and been to the comic house you call a church in both my area and in a friends "poor" area. The attendance was dramatically different.
That is false. Poor people attend church more often because it seems like the only place that is meaningful. Also they feel as though attending to "god" will help their situations, whereas the rich do not have as much problems so church attendance is lower. Trust me, I grew up in a "privileged" area and been to the comic house you call a church in both my area and in a friends "poor" area. The attendance was dramatically different.
More poor people attend church because poor people are more compassionate, less greedy and would give you the shirt off their back. Rich people are generally more concerned with making money than being a good person. Go to the country clubs and golf courses on Sunday, this is where the wealthier hang out.
More poor people attend church because poor people are more compassionate, less greedy and would give you the shirt off their back. Rich people are generally more concerned with making money than being a good person.
That is labeling. If you want to throw in statistics, most crimes that are committed are done by the poor AKA "the good people" so I could be like you and say "Poor people are generally concerned about killing other people while rich people are concerned with staying rich" who's more "good" in that sense? Do not implement your hatred of the "class in society" that you cannot be apart. Your argument is fallacious on the grounds of composition.
If you want to throw in statistics, most crimes that are committed are done by the poor
Of coarse more crimes are done by the poor, the rich make up only a very small percentage of the population and so the vast majority of that population is poor.
Do not implement your hatred of the "class in society" that you cannot be apart.
I don't want to be a part or have anything to do with the rich, I have integrity.
If people read their Bible's more often they would know that they shouldn't be committing those crimes. I've been going to church for a long time, and I haven't committed a crime and don't plan on it.
The bible is not a "Law book" nor is it consistent book. Why would someone follow an ancient mythological book full of contradictions and inconsistencies? Would you follow a manual that said; (step 1) connect the plug to the wall (step 2) do not connect the plug to the wall (step 3) once you have not disconnected the already not connected plug, proceed to the next step. <- Wtf right? Same way I feel about that ancient man-made book.
It's not a mythological book full of contradictions. A lot of the contradictions that people pick out. Some of them are actually complementary meaning that they are adding on to what people say and reaffirming what someone said.
Someone would follow what the Bible teaches because a lot of what Jesus said has never been said before. No other human has said the things that Jesus has said.
Homosexuality is a sin just like other sins. Any Church or person who refute's what God's word says is far from what a Christian should be. These new age Churches with Gay Pastors, or supporting Abortions, etc. are false Churches who deny the very faith they claim to follow. God says he knows us in the womb & even knows what we will be.
Just because Christians love all people and should not judge other's, does not mean we allow false cults to pop up trying to twist Christianity to their Liberal ideology, and say nothing. We must always take a stand against those who would try to destroy what the Bible actually says.
amen ..... it's the understanding of the life and love of God that turns a young one to the path of life and love toward his fellow man .... > http://dadmansabode.com/ <
It doesn't teach intolerance at all , it teaches the opposite . It says we shouldn't judge others because we have all screwed up at one point or another . Those people who are completely intolerant to all sin and go out yelling at people are hypocrite convertes who are trying to make them selves feel better about whatever sin they enjoy doing. I am Christian and I tolerate gays , I just don't agree with what they do .
Depends on the religion then doesn't it? Christianity, my religion, is all about tolerance. We're told to accept people for who they are and treat them as we would like to be treated.
Not sure if you understood me when I said I am a Christian. Those commands where given to Jews. I follow the teachings of Christ and do as he instructs. His teachings are about tolerance. These scriptures are of no use to me since I can't fufill them. So, instead of finding acts of intolerance in the bible find teachings of Jesus that Christians are actually obligated to follow that shows us that our religion is intolerant.
God was wrong? About what? He gave commands to the Jews. Then Jesus came along and man was able to reach God through Jesus. I'm not seeing what he was wrong about. And sure,if God wants to change his mind he can. I don't see anything wrong with that.
So God used to want us to bash the brains of Babylonian babies, not he wants us to forgive. Why/how would an all knowing God change his mind? How is there justice in that? Does God do the right thing, or is a thing made right by God's whim?
God gave commands to people. You are not apart of that "us". Don't include yourself in something that doesn't apply to you at all. These commands were given to the Jews for a particular reason.
Why would an all-knowing God change his mind? Umm, because he can? He is a powerful being. If he know everything then he knows that his nature contradicts itself on a human level, but to a being that is omnipotent inconsistencies are not inconsistencies of a human relevance, but merely attributes of his power. He can do everything. That would include changing his mind, but we don't know if he really changed his mind now do we?
First off using your human understanding of justice doesn't compare to God's view of justice. God does things based off of his knowledge, which is everything if we are following your omniscient ruling. His knowledge is greater than ours, and if he gives a command for the better good and we see it as bad is it truly bad or is it truly good? Naturally it would be good since God does no evil and he requires no explanations for his actions.
God creates what is right and what is wrong to answer your second question. If he created all there is now then he must have created a moral code for his creation.
When I interpret the traits of a just God, it must be within the limits of my understanding. This is only as invalid as your attribution of traits such as "all good" and "contradictory".
He created a logically ordered world, called it good, and then proceeded to contradict logic. Am I wrong to suspect the God giving these orders? I wouldn't be surprised to find Satan's hand in many biblical dictates.
Clearly. The message has no applicability to your life or any of our lives for that matter.
"When I interpret the traits of a just God, it must be within the limits of my understanding. This is only as invalid as your attribution of traits such as "all good" and "contradictory"."
Sure, I agree, somewhat.
"He created a logically ordered world, called it good, and then proceeded to contradict logic. Am I wrong to suspect the God giving these orders? I wouldn't be surprised to find Satan's hand in many biblical dictates."
Why should he be bound by the laws of logic? If he created everything then shouldn't he rightfully be above logic and therefore not bound by it? Yes, you would be wrong in suspecting the God that gave the orders. Your understanding is nowhere near equivalent to a mind that knows everything.
Yes, you would be wrong in suspecting the God that gave the orders. Your understanding is nowhere near equivalent to a mind that knows everything.
Perhaps I would be wrong if I could be truly assured that it was in fact God, but that takes groundless faith. I am suspect of contradictory behavior and lack of logic. When I am told that something which is apparently bad is actually good because it was done by an all knowing God, I tend not to buy it. I would argue that it wasn't God. This is entirely reasonable considering all the various religions and traditions. If contradiction is all part of it, how can you uphold one faith as true above any others? Why can't they all be equally correct coming from an all-contradictory God?
Faith is demanded when reason ends. Reason is the faculty that brings us closer to God than any other creature. I would not abandon this most precious gift from God for the sake of faith.
"If contradiction is all part of it, how can you uphold one faith as true above any others?"
It's because I don't believe that there are any contradictions with God. There cannot be contradictions with God unless he wants them to be there.
"Why can't they all be equally correct coming from an all-contradictory God?"
Again, I don't see God as contradictory, so your question isn't answerable by me.
"Faith is demanded when reason ends. Reason is the faculty that brings us closer to God than any other creature. I would not abandon this most precious gift from God for the sake of faith."
John 20:29 says:
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
If he know everything then he knows that his nature contradicts itself on a human level, but to a being that is omnipotent inconsistencies are not inconsistencies of a human relevance
and
I don't believe that there are any contradictions with God
Is this because anything that is a contradiction on the human level is not really a contradiction because it's God?
John 20:29
If I see a guy walk through a wall, I'll know that it happened. If I tell you, will you believe me? Should you? If you believe people who say fantastic things, will you be more blessed? Will it make a difference if I write down my acccount?
Should've expected you to post some typical stuff. It's no fun debating when your opponent just says "and".
Is this because anything that is a contradiction on the human level is not really a contradiction because it's God?
I can promise you that I already explained this, by basically yeah. That's the sum of it.
If I see a guy walk through a wall, I'll know that it happened. If I tell you, will you believe me? Should you? If you believe people who say fantastic things, will you be more blessed? Will it make a difference if I write down my acccount?
A man walking through a wall is much different that a god that created the universe. Completely different arguments come into play here.
I guess "and" is a pretty typical word. Especially when connecting phrases or in this case your two quotes. "And" was not a response.
Nixon once said "If the president does it, that means it's not illegal." What a divine president huh?
I used the wall scenario in response to your Jesus quote. I figured it was analogous to Jesus walking on water.
What he was essentially saying was "it's cool that you believe and all, but it would be even cooler if you had no reason to believe whatsoever. Then you would be blessed". This was my point that you didn't respond to.
A God who appears contradictory on a human level gives no reason to believe. Faith must be relied on. Why did God create rational people, to whom he doesn't at least appear rational, and then expect us to drop our God given rationality? Am I clinging too tightly to reason at the expense of faith here?
I guess "and" is a pretty typical word. Especially when connecting phrases or in this case your two quotes. "And" was not a response.
You know exactly what I meant. You're sucking all the fun out of this.
Nixon once said "If the president does it, that means it's not illegal." What a divine president huh?
Nobody is divine but God. Also I'm sure it the president does something illegal it's still illegal. Then again, this is a human to human assumption. Not a human to God assumption.
What he was essentially saying was "it's cool that you believe and all, but it would be even cooler if you had no reason to believe whatsoever. Then you would be blessed". This was my point that you didn't respond to.
That's not what he meant. He was telling him that those who believe in him without seeing him are blessed. Reason naturally comes when choosing to believe in something.
A God who appears contradictory on a human level gives no reason to believe.
He gives us reason to believe. You can either accept it or deny it. Your choice.
Why did God create rational people, to whom he doesn't at least appear rational, and then expect us to drop our God given rationality?
What? Please tell me when God commanded us to "drop rationality"?
Am I clinging too tightly to reason at the expense of faith here?
Nope. I don't know your level of faith so I highly doubt I could relate to you.
Totally agree my brother. Love between men is in the bible. To hell with all you homophobes!!! Lets all get down on the path of life and love between men. Amen.
Liberals will deny this simple truth because they hate any mention of moral values & the good it does for society. All one need do is look at the prisoners & the homes they came from. Homes where Christian moral values are taught would find very few future convicts.
Back in the 50's & 60's when Christian values were taught & encouraged teens to wait for sex, we had far fewer teen pregnancies with NO sex ed. in schools.
Christian values taught to children 100% does help but you will never hear a Liberal admit it.
Back in the 50's & 60's when Christian values were taught & encouraged teens to wait for sex, we had far fewer teen pregnancies with NO sex ed. in schools.
This is a false reality. We had fewer teen pregnancies because we had a smaller teen population. We have a lower percentage of teen pregnancies now that we promote sex education and encourage condom use.
All one need do is look at the prisoners & the homes they came from. Homes where Christian moral values are taught would find very few future convicts.
Statistics contradict your claims. Christians do not only make up the majority of prisoners, but disproportionately so.
Time to ignore such ludicrous lies. 85% of Americans claim to be Christian which means nothing when it comes to actually caring what the Bible says & how we should try to live our lives. I believe Hitler called himself a Christian, your point? Criminals quite often call themselves Christians after getting caught.
I disagree. Prison statistics don't lend any credence to this claim, as others have touched on.
It makes sense though, really. Religious individuals are taught to live by a moral code that doesn't match up 1:1 with the law, and are taught to treat that code with far more gravity than the law. Non religious individuals generally aren't given a set of standards to live by that are at odds with the law, and certainly not with a gravity anywhere near that of religion.
Would you mind citing any of these stats? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I'm taking everything you say with a grain(bucket) of salt unless I see some actual proof.
This is through and apparently impartial evaluation of the data. It does show that these kind of stats will probably never tell the whole truth. But no matter how you slice it, the numbers show atheists as being underrepresented in the prison system compared to the general population.
Majority of prisoners are religious and grew up like so. So that statistically is not true. Joseph Stalin grew up in going to church. Stalin killed around 16,000,000 people.
Clearly you haven't read the new testament . Jesus revised the old law . In the old testament stoning gays was accepted and so was stoning bad children . But those laws were changed by Jesus , that was why the Jews hated him and had him killed . Back then ( old testament times ) , these actions you describe were acceptable , now they aren't . The Bible even says to respect and obey authority , until they go against your beliefs and try to take away your right of religion . The Bible also supports parents disciplining their kids . Good discipline early in life tends to discourage bad behavior later in life.
Didn't Jesus support the laws of the prophets before him? If the Old Testament and what it says is not considered relevant to Christianity then why is it included in the Bible?
That is like me saying: "listen every word that comes out of my mouth," then two weeks later saying: "do not listen to what I said last week?" Why should I listen to this week when last week I was supposed to listen, but then I wasn't supposed to listen? Unreliable if you ask me, or.. anyone actually.
I contest this assessment of points. One does not start out with ten points and get arbitrary deductions for stuff like 'ROFL.' One starts with 0 points and gains points for making good argument. Poor grammar is only an issue if it severely disrupts the ability to understand the statement.
His total is 0, for a 0/10.
Of course, he's obviously not making a serious post, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to rate it ;)
Please tell me one verse in the Christian new testament where the Bible says the things you just said. You are speaking bout the old testament before Christ. Christ said he without sin cast the first stone. Spew your hateful bigoted rhetoric somewhere else.
Churches encourage segregation, and the illusion of superiority over others due to your beliefs. Keep this in mind.
Lets use a hypothetical. Say a boy named Timmy goes to church every day, goes to a fancy catholic school, and loves his god. Dear little Timmy has your typical religious parents. They don't teach him about the nature of sex, drugs, etc. So he grows up ignorant to the sheer existence of them.
Little Timmy goes to high school, and expects it to be some kind of high school musical happy go lucky home for imaginary friends or some crap. He makes friends, is a super good boy, until someone mumbles the god forsaken word... "Boobs"
Now Timmy is all like "What are those?" and all his friends are like "Are you retarded?" So he's discovered something that he didn't know existed. Something that his parents will probably teach him is dirty and forbidden. Which is dumb.
So he starts to wonder, what else does he not know about? Are there other things like these magical boobs? So he asks his friends. They tell him about all the things. Drugs, alcohol, etc.
Since his parents have either ignored the existence of these entirely, or taught him that they are EVILLLLLLLL. His rebellious instincts kick in and he starts to experiment. But due to his lack of education about the nature of all of these things, he doesn't do it safely. He doesn't know anything about protection. He doesn't know what an overdose is. He thinks it's all super safe.
So, fast forward a few years. If Timmy manages to go about his life under a blanket of ignorance, the odds of him making some crucial mistakes skyrocket. By the time Timmy is 18, he's gotten a girl pregnant, because he never learned about condoms, and is addicted to heroine, because he was never taught about the risks.
He turns to crime. Well, petty crime. Just taking a few bucks every now and again. But it all gradually escalates. Eventually he starts robbing people. Then stores. I can go on, but I think my point is about driven home at this point.
==
Timmy's life is a bit extreme, no doubt. Not every child with a religious upbringing will go down a path like Timmy's. But it's shockingly common. I'm not making this story up as I go. It's happened. Hundred and hundreds of times; hundreds of thousands of children.
We can see over the course of history that the stronger they repression on someone the harder they tend to rebel. Religion is no exception, no matter what sort of divine intervention you're expecting.
So children that grow up going to church are most certainly not less likely to become criminals. In fact, they're arguably more likely. Using "god loves you" as a cop out response to the inevitable truth is... Well, irresponsible.
Organized religion does correlate with reduced criminal behavior in multiple controlled studies. However, what these studies generally fail to demonstrate is a causal effect of religion upon that reduction. What actually matters more? The religious delusions or the organization into a community structure that can be done without the former?
