CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
Look, obviously yoga was a religious thing in the days of old, but nowadays a lot of people practice yoga. Think about it; pretentious rich people, Hollywood glitterati, hippies, politicians, football players, actors...the list goes on and on. It's become an exercise and a way of calming the mind rather than a way for the user to connect with some kind of God.
No just morons. Yoga is Stretching. All it is. Yeah it stems from some silly ancient religious beliefs but it is strictly stretching and relaxation techniques. Nothing mysterious there?
There are several types of Christians, there are even Pagan Christians.
Which, in my opinion, is an oxymoron, but obviously still possible for some people to believe.
That, and Yoga does not require the philosophy and spirituality that is taught with Yoga in order to do Yoga itself.
Yoga can simply be a form of exercise and gaining flexibility and control over your body. (Some of those postures really require great control over your body parts).
Yoga can simply be a form of exercise and gaining flexibility and control over your body.
Just like when Hindus do that one stretch where they kneel down, clasp their hands together, and repeat "I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior" over and over again.
Just like when Hindus do that one stretch where they kneel down, clasp their hands together, and repeat "I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior" over and over again.
Incorrect.
Take for example, the Bird of Paradise pose. This pose is for advanced Yoga practitioners, just as one armed push-ups are for those who have mastered regular push-ups. Working yourself up to this pose and mastering this pose will give your body more flexibility (hence the leg stretching up), and great control of your body; because it will be HARD to keep your balance, point your foot up, and keep your hands in their spot. This requires great body control.
It's an exercise move. It doesn't have to require any religious philosophy behind it in order to practice it.
It's like being in the traditional prayer hands position for Christianity, if you wish, that can also be a workout. And just because you do that pose doesn't mean you must now pray to the Christian god or have any religious application behind it.
It's an exercise move. It doesn't have to require any religious philosophy behind it in order to practice it.
The original purpose of yoga was to be the path to Hindu spiritual growth and enlightenment.
Yoga actually means "union", with the ultimate goal of practicing yoga to be united with Brahman, the Hindu concept of god. This is known as pantheism, the belief that everything is God.
The original forms of yoga make no mention of simply physically exercising with no religious or philosophical implications. Over a long period of time, people somehow got the idea that this idea of yoga could relieve stress and make the body more flexible. However, all the "poses" and "positions" done have religious and philosophical meaning behind them.
Yoga makes Christians focus on themselves rather than God. Christianity teaches to renew one's mind, which is completely incompatible with the idea that one should empty their mind (A common yoga concept). True Christianity simply is not compatible with yoga.
Of course, the argument you are making is a valid point. What if people isolate the physical properties from the spiritual properties of yoga? Well frankly, this isn't possible. Once again, all of the positions and poses done in yoga were designed to give worship to the large number of Hindu gods. Hindus have never said they do yoga simply for the exercise. It is a religious form of worship.
So what? Do you think most yoga classes around the world focus on Hindu beliefs? Hell to the No! My local church hall has a yoga class in there, which just goes to show how outdated and excessive you views are.
Do you think most yoga classes around the world focus on Hindu beliefs?
Yoga and Hinduism are undeniably linked. You should do some research on the origin of yoga.
My local church hall has a yoga class in there, which just goes to show how outdated and excessive you views are.
What your local church practices has no correlation with my views. Simply because your church is ignorant of the religious and philosophical properties behind yoga, doesn't make my views any less valid.
Traditional yoga might be, modern yoga isn't. I strongly suggest you go to a yoga class so you actually know what you're talking about. I think you would find it informative.
As I was saying Troy, it does not require religious or philosophical beliefs in order to practice its exercises. Just as the traditional prayer hand position is traditionally a religious position, but has now been found to have more uses, you can work on flexibility in your wrists and forearms with the prayer pose.
You can't separate the religious aspect of yoga from the rest of it. Even if you think you are, you still aren't. That's like saying 'modern communion is done just for the nutritional value of the wine and bread, it has nothing to do with religion.'
Requirement is not the right word. It is religious. Communion is a Christian tradition done to remember Christ's sacrifice with his metaphor used during the last supper.
My point is that while drinking wine and bread is not inherently religious, when you label it 'communion,' it has religious implications. It's the same with yoga. If you're going to completely ignore the religious aspect of it, you can't call it yoga and claim that it's just for exercise.
And to correct your statement, it can be religious.
Communion is a Christian tradition done to remember Christ's sacrifice with his metaphor used during the last supper.
Yes, it is. But practices that are performed during Communion can be religious, but do not HAVE to be religious.
I can drink wine without it being religious.
I can eat bread without it being religious.
I can get on my knees without it being religious.
I can/have someone put water on my forehead without it being religious.
I can put my hands into the prayer position without it being religious.
Just like I could perform yoga poses without it being religious.
This is like saying in order to do a move from a tae-bo video, I MUST be doing tae-bo, when really I could just be doing a move that is used in a tae-bo video.
And to correct your statement, it can be religious.
And to correct your statement, it is religious.
Yes, it is. But practices that are performed during Communion can be religious, but do not HAVE to be religious.
I'm not talking about practices performed during Communion, I'm referring to Communion itself.
I can drink wine without it being religious.
I can eat bread without it being religious.
I can get on my knees without it being religious.
I can/have someone put water on my forehead without it being religious.
I can put my hands into the prayer position without it being religious.
Just like I could perform yoga poses without it being religious.
Once again, you are missing the point. Everything you said (besides yoga, of course) is not necessarily religious. However, if you label it Communion, Prayer, and Anointment it becomes necessarily religious.
This is like saying in order to do a move from a tae-bo video, I MUST be doing tae-bo, when really I could just be doing a move that is used in a tae-bo video.
If you are not claiming to be doing tae-bo, it isn't tae-bo.
I don't see it your way. I was disputing your claim above that if it IS something, then it's required. However, Yoga is one that can be religious. It's not that it is religious, but that it can be religious.
I'm not talking about practices performed during Communion, I'm referring to Communion itself. Once again, you are missing the point. Everything you said (besides yoga, of course) is not necessarily religious. However, if you label it Communion, Prayer, and Anointment it becomes necessarily religious.
And that's the problem. I'm talking about the practices of Yoga, which is called Yoga, because there are several types. Just like there are streets or schools named after people, doesn't mean it's the person, even though it's called by the same name.
If you are not claiming to be doing tae-bo, it isn't tae-bo.
Technically this is wrong, someone can claim not to be doing something but in reality is actually doing it.
Requirement implies a necessity. It is not one's obligation to practice yoga, but religion is by definition inherent to yoga.
I don't see it your way. I was disputing your claim above that if it IS something, then it's required. However, Yoga is one that can be religious. It's not that it is religious, but that it can be religious.
I disagree.
And that's the problem. I'm talking about the practices of Yoga, which is called Yoga, because there are several types. Just like there are streets or schools named after people, doesn't mean it's the person, even though it's called by the same name.
So are you even sure you are talking about the same yoga that I am?
Technically this is wrong, someone can claim not to be doing something but in reality is actually doing it.
Requirement implies a necessity. It is not one's obligation to practice yoga, but religion is by definition inherent to yoga.
Requirement implies necessity, which if something is, then it's necessary to be otherwise it is not the "is" that you claim.
I disagree.
And I'm sorry you disagree with the truth. The simple fact is that someone can perform a move without adhering to the religious philosophy it originated from. And the proof is that of intentions, the religious philosophy is only done through the intention. If someone does not intend that, they are not provoking the religious philosophy.
So are you even sure you are talking about the same yoga that I am?
With you, who knows what we are talking about.
That nearly sums up my argument.
Which you argued the opposite of. How does it sum up your argument?
Requirement implies necessity, which if something is, then it's necessary to be otherwise it is not the "is" that you claim.
I'm not quite sure what you are arguing. Please elaborate.
And I'm sorry you disagree with the truth. The simple fact is that someone can perform a move without adhering to the religious philosophy it originated from. And the proof is that of intentions, the religious philosophy is only done through the intention. If someone does not intend that, they are not provoking the religious philosophy.
You claim this to be a fact, yet it is not proven. Intentions make no difference. Whether you intend for it to be religious or not, it remains religious.
With you, who knows what we are talking about.
Once again, you are failing to answer my question properly.
Which you argued the opposite of. How does it sum up your argument?
Because people are claiming that what they are doing is non-religious, despite the fact that it is religious.
But if you were to eat bread and drink wine in a non-religious setting, without observing rituals of Christianity, and without thinking about praising God whilst doing so, then it would NOT be holy communion, it would just be bread and evening drinks.
I'm saying eating bread and drinking wine whilst declaring it Communion is inherently religious by definition, just like doing exercise and flexibilty training whilst calling it Yoga
As I was saying Troy, it does not require religious or philosophical beliefs in order to practice its exercises. Just as the traditional prayer hand position is traditionally a religious position, but has now been found to have more uses, you can work on flexibility in your wrists and forearms with the prayer pose.
it does not require religious or philosophical beliefs in order to practice its exercises.
This isn't the point. I'm saying whether one doing yoga realizes it or not, he is participating in Hindu god worship.
Just as the traditional prayer hand position is traditionally a religious position, but has now been found to have more uses, you can work on flexibility in your wrists and forearms with the prayer pose.
I am not sure what you are referring to, but it sounds a bit different than something like yoga.
It IS the point. I am arguing against what you are arguing. How is that not the point?
I'm saying whether one doing yoga realizes it or not, he is participating in Hindu god worship.
Again, wrong. That is like saying anyone who has their hands in the traditional Christian prayer position must be praying to the Christian deity and is subjecting themselves to worshiping the Christian god. Or it's like saying anyone who puts a tree up on Christmas is participating Christian god or Pagan god worship.
I am not sure what you are referring to, but it sounds a bit different than something like yoga.
No, it's not. Because it can still be practiced without religious doctrines, and it's an exercise.
That is like saying anyone who has their hands in the traditional Christian prayer position must be praying to the Christian deity and is subjecting themselves to worshiping the Christian god.
This is just semantics. These people are not claiming to be praying to the Christian God, therefore it is not religious. People who practice yoga clearly say that they are, in actuality, doing yoga. This means that they are worshiping Hindu gods, even if they are ignorant of the meaning of the word. It's when you call it exercise, flexibility training, or Pilates that it becomes non-religious.
Which is exactly what your question is going to bring up. You are provoking semantics.
These people are not claiming to be praying to the Christian God, therefore it is not religious.
DING DING! This is the exact point. The very point of my entire argument from the beginning.
These people are not claiming the religious/philosophical beliefs of yoga, therefore it's not religious.
People who practice yoga clearly say that they are, in actuality, doing yoga. This means that they are worshiping Hindu gods, even if they are ignorant of the meaning of the word.
You're the one ignorant of the word. Yoga:
-is a physical, mental, and spiritual discipline, originating in ancient India. (Wikipedia)
-any of the methods or disciplines prescribed, especially a series of postures and breathing exercises practiced to achieve control of the body and mind, tranquillity, etc.
-a school of Hindu philosophy advocating and prescribing a course of physical and mental disciplines for attaining liberation from the material world and union of the self with the Supreme Being or ultimate principle.
-any method by which such awareness and tranquility are attained, esp a course of related exercises and postures designed to promote physical and spiritual well-being.
It is still called Yoga because there is a physical exercise that originated from Yoga the religious practice. The same as how the prayer pose is called the prayer pose, it originated from a religious doctrine but you don't have to have anything religious to perform it.
It's when you call it exercise, flexibility training, or Pilates that it becomes non-religious.
Which is exactly what your question is going to bring up. You are provoking semantics.
My question is very straightforward and concise. Don't blame my question for your semantics.
DING DING! This is the exact point. The very point of my entire argument from the beginning.
These people are not claiming the religious/philosophical beliefs of yoga, therefore it's not religious.
Yes, but my argument is that yoga is in itself religious whether or not you believe it is. By practicing yoga, it follows that you are practicing a religious activity.
You're the one ignorant of the word.
Clearly you are ignorant of my non-ignorance then.
-is a physical, mental, and spiritual discipline, originating in ancient India. (Wikipedia)
-any of the methods or disciplines prescribed, especially a series of postures and breathing exercises practiced to achieve control of the body and mind, tranquillity, etc.
-a school of Hindu philosophy advocating and prescribing a course of physical and mental disciplines for attaining liberation from the material world and union of the self with the Supreme Being or ultimate principle.
-any method by which such awareness and tranquility are attained, esp a course of related exercises and postures designed to promote physical and spiritual well-being.
All of these points support my argument.
It is still called Yoga because there is a physical exercise that originated from Yoga the religious practice. The same as how the prayer pose is called the prayer pose, it originated from a religious doctrine but you don't have to have anything religious to perform it.
Then how is one supposed to know the difference between the religious and physical versions?
My question is very straightforward and concise. Don't blame my question for your semantics.
I never argued against it being concise. I'm saying that your question is going to provoke semantics.
Yes, but my argument is that yoga is in itself religious whether or not you believe it is. By practicing yoga, it follows that you are practicing a religious activity.
Wrong.
All of these points support my argument.
No, they don't, because they specify a different between spiritual and physical activity.
Then how is one supposed to know the difference between the religious and physical versions?
Intention. Do you believe in the religious/philosophical/spiritual doctrine that original Yoga provides?
-No
Are you performing these physical activities as if the religious/philosophical/spiritual doctrine is true?
-No
Then I guess you're not performing religious Yoga.