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9
15
Arguments for Arguments against
Debate Score:24
Arguments:25
Total Votes:24
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 Arguments for (9)
 
 Arguments against (15)

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Christian arguments for and against abortion

This debate is for christians to debate Abortion biblically and logically to see where we truly should stand on abortion.

Arguments for

Side Score: 9
VS.

Arguments against

Side Score: 15
1 point

This is an argument I wrote some time on this issue.

Ok I have decided to write in response to a sermon

about abortion given at my church last Sunday. The

preacher was one who occasionally speaks on

some issues. He is a young doctor who tried to

tackle the issue with an emotional/rational mixture

which worked for some of the audience but it did

not work for me.

His main argument was that we shouldn’t have the

right to decide whether or not a child dies even in

probability cases or in the utilitarian case. His main

verses that he used to describe his point is with

these verses

Jeremiah 1:5

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..."

Psalm 139:13

"For Thou didst form my inward parts, Thou didst

knit me together in my mother's womb."

Exodus 21:22

"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and

she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious

injury, the offender must be fined whatever the

woman's husband demands and the court allows.”

He points out that God knew us all before birth and

knows all of our days. He states that even in

horrible circumstances a child should not be

aborted, however he does give one exception and

that is of ectopic pregnancies where it is likely that

both the mother and child will both die. He states

that we as Christians should do our very best to

help the woman in question and help her in a

supportive and non judgemental way.

Now my issue is that I believe in a much more

moderate and rational case and I do not believe in a

one sided case against abortion. I believe in the

probability/Utilitarian method and believe that the

bible corroborates this point.

To start off with I’d like to mention that I dislike the

use of the Psalms as evidence as they are usually

poetry and are highly emotional and should not be

used as a method for basing our life. For example

these counter quotes are also found in the Psalms

"The wicked go astray from the womb, they err from

their birth, speaking lies. They have venom like the

venom of a serpent. ... Let them vanish like water

that runs away, like grass let them be trodden down

and wither. Let them be like the snail which

dissolves into slime, like the untimely birth that

never sees the sun." (Psalms 58:3-8)

"O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy

shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes

them against the rock!" (Psalms 137:8)

So I would prefer to not use the Psalms, albeit a lot

of the bible is emotional in nature. Now the next

issue is by the fact that he stated that life began at

conception, however this is not biblically sound.

The bible states in many places that breathing is a

factor of life, which foetuses do no do. Here are

some quotes

"...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and

man became a living being."(Genesis 2:7)

"Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you

shall live." (Ezekiel 37:5)

There is even further mention of when life is

considered valuable

(Moses talking about conducting a census) "...all

the first-born males of the people of Israel, from a

month old and upward..." (Numbers 3:40)

(Moses talking about the value of a human) "If the

person is from a month old up to five years old,

your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of

silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three

shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6)

Now my position which is a probability based view,

taking into account the possible life the child will

have is also taken into account where to die an

untimely death is better than life in some

circumstances

"Cursed be the day on which I was born! The day

when my mother bore me, let it not be blessed!

Cursed be the man who brought the news to my

father, 'A son is born to you', making him very glad.

Let that man be like the cities which the Lord

overthrew without pity; let him hear a cry in the

morning and an alarm at noon, because he did not

kill me in the womb; so my mother would have

been my grave, and her womb for ever great. Why

did I come forth from the womb to see toil and

sorrow, and spend my days in shame?" (Jeremiah

20:14-18)

"If a man begets a hundred children, and lives many

years, so that the days of his years are many, but

he does not enjoy life's good things, and also has

no burial, I say that an untimely birth is better off

than he. For it comes into vanity and goes into

darkness, and in darkness its name is covered;

moreover it has not seen the sun or known

anything; yet it finds rest rather than he."

(Ecclesiastes 6:3-5)

"Or why was I not as a hidden untimely birth, as

infants that never see the light? There the wicked

cease from troubling, and there the weary are at

rest. There the prisoners are at ease together; they

hear not the voice of the taskmaster. The small and

the great are there, and the slave is free from his

master." (Job 3:16-19)

Now the next point is that unborn children go the

heaven, as they were innocent

"Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor

shall sons be put to death for their fathers;

everyone shall be put to death for his own sins

(Deuteronomy 24:16)

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear

the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the

father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity;

the righteousness of the righteous will be upon

himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be

upon

Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this

that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for

the child, while it was alive; but when the child was

dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. And he said,

While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I

said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to

me, that the child may live? But now he is dead,

wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back

again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to

me. (2 Samuel 12:21-23)

"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and

become like children, you shall not enter the

kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3)

So there are no iniquities for an unborn child and

the innocent children go to heaven. Now for his

point about being knitted together in the womb and

being “known”. To me I see this as being in favour

of my position as God would know whether or not

the child would be aborted. If he really wanted the

child to live he would have manipulated things to

send the right people into her life to assist her. It

also doesn’t account for miscarriages; as if he

wanted them to live he would have carried them

through to the full term. Thus I must assume that

all of these occurrences have a specific purpose

and could help to move the person onto a new path

as God wills. Also to note is the fact that he makes

the distinction of ectopic pregnancies. The issue I

have with this is the lack of consistency, there in

nothing in the bible that makes this distinction and

if one cannot abort in the high probability of a bad

existence because it limits God’s will then why

should this be any different? This is merely the

same issue where probability comes into effect and

one can choose to either abide by the possibility of

God’s divine intervention or suffer the alternative,

so why is his example any more acceptable? One

cannot break with consistency if you are

maintaining the hardline view.

So in summary what I have found is that abortions

are ok biblically speaking, and that in probability

based cases where there is a likely chance of it

being a birth in a broken or unloving family, or

being born into a hopeless situation where they are

likely to never truly know God and go to hell it is

better to let them go to heaven right then.

I would make the distinction though that I believe

abortion clinics should not have “revolving doors”

and that if it is a situation where neither the child

nor mother is in danger and the expected life for the

child has significant hope in it, then an abortion is

not needed and would be nothing more than selfish

negligence.

What do you guys think?

Side: Arguments for
1 point

Abortion shouldn't be allowed or even thought of because of one very big fat reason. It damages the womb, kills an innocent child you brought into the world either by teenagers casual sex or just for the fun of it. It is very known that every one (except those who have given up on life) don't want to die, that why we eat food, drink water and even make money to keep us alive and comfortable; after saying all this why would you put your life on the line for just 30 mins of pleasure

Side: Arguments against
1 point

2nd of all I agree with your pastor and who are you to take away life for god give to and it is His not yours to take away no matter evil the person is from birth

Side: Arguments against
1 point

Thirdly the bible is not emotional and if you believe the bible as much as I do you won't think to call psalm emotional there by discarding it for the bible says in rev. 22:19 'and if any man take away from the words of this prophecy (which is the bible), god shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city(heaven), and from the things which are written in this book.' Rev.22:18' if any man shall add unto these things, god shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book(the bible)

Side: Arguments against
1 point

rev. 22:19 'and if any man take away from the words of this prophecy (which is the bible)

The Bible as we know it didn't even exist at that time. It even specifically says "this prophecy". The Bible is not just one big prophesy, so it is clearly only referring to Revelations. If you truly believe that nothing should be added, then you need to toss out the rest of the Bible.

Side: Arguments for
1 point

Lastly, I'd like to tell you that you have completely woven the bible to suit your own purpose just as the Pharisees and Saducees did in Jesus's time and if you are a Christian as you have painted the picture to be and you believe in Christ then you would not doubt Gods decisions to let those unborn children die and NOTICE through miscarriages

Side: Arguments against
Vaan(167) Disputed
1 point

I shall respond to all of your posts as one.

Firstly you have failed to respond to my arguments biblically, instead going off on some strange tangent then deciding I must be corrupting the bible, which is not true, I am doing what any apologist should do - thoroughly viewing the evidence for and against scripturally.

And yes the psalms are emotional, they are meant to assist us in our prayers as they show the full range of emotions we will feel in our lifetime. Also if God allows children to die in the womb then they must go to heaven to keep his image of mercy, and therefore aborted children must also go to heaven as they are innocents.

And finally God knows all that has and will happen, who are you to try and bend fate by notallowing abortions, even in horrific circumstances? And i'm like the heartless pharisees? Hardly.

Side: Arguments for
1 point

"Thou shalt not murder" makes it clear in itself. Apart from that, the Bible makes multiple references to our time in the womb. It says that He knit us together in the womb, and that He knew us before we were born.

Side: Arguments against
1 point

firstly Van I'd like to ask you a very simple question why are you so very keen on murdering innocent babes who are yet in the womb?? the bible says in job the Lord gives and the lord takes away and through it all blessed be the Lord. If you will notice it says THE LORD not VAN gives and takes away. If I am correct which I believe I am you cannot create a mustard seed not to mention a child which you have proved in your last few statements that its alright to kill 'I mean who cares right?'

Side: Arguments against
Vaan(167) Disputed
1 point

Once again I shall respond in a singular fashion.

Firstly its Vaan, not Van.

Secondly, of course we can create a mustard seed through germination of mustard plants. And we are getting to a point in Science where we can take a cell and create anything we want, including a child (or rather we are getting close).

Thirdly, if the lord giveth and taketh away then you must also disagree with hospitals, medicine and lifesaving treatment to remain logically consistent in that view.

Fourthly, I doubt you have read my argument, if you had you would have seen my personal view on abortion and would have ceased the rambling emotional ad hominems.

Finally, I stated that you hadn't responded to my arguments biblically. I did note your emotional attempts to discredit me with a couple of random verses thrown in, however overall you have failed to respond to my main arguments in a rational manner.

Side: Arguments for
1 point

and to add; about not responding to comments biblically I believe you can read very well, so please take a second glance at my earlier posts and I'm quite certain you'd find a scripture or two my appreciations are sent

Side: Arguments against
1 point

lastly to little misfit the bible actually existed but wasn't known as 'the bible' then and yes you are correct the bible isn't all about prophecy's but it is more of prophecies. lastly I believe if you are a Christian you wouldn't throw the bible away but rather take in every word of it.

Side: Arguments against
1 point

correction taken 'Vaan' and I must say you're pretty good but there is something you stated than I couldn't help stare in shock so I must say, creating is making something out of nothing, which planting a mustard seed or science cannot do I was pretty sure you knew that well, I'm disappointed.

And no, I do not disagree with the hospitals, and life saving treatments so please stop trying to put in my mouth to suite your purposes

And of course I have seen your views on abortion which clearly states you are for it and for a witness I have create debate which distinctively tells the whole world 'arguments for'

Side: Arguments against
Vaan(167) Disputed
1 point

Of course we cant make something out of nothing, that is only logical for physically restrained humans.

And if you believe that then you cannot use your statement thst the lord taketh away, because you are limiting Gods will by trying to save yourself. This is simple deduction.

My view is not willy nilly killing as you seem to suggest, but rather a rational, circumstance based theory.

Side: Arguments for
Pearlie(28) Disputed
1 point

please do clarify, I am in doubt of some of the things you are saying and would not like to put meaning to the string of words you have formed as for your 'circumstance based theory' please do inform me what theory?

Side: Arguments against
1 point

as for your little comments 'rambling emotional...', 'attempts to discredit you...' etc. I was merely stating facts

Side: Arguments against
Vaan(167) Disputed
1 point

"something that actually exists; reality; truth:

Your fears have no basis in fact" - that is a fact, your comments are personal, subjective, disputable opinions, not facts.

Also reply in a singular fasion please, multiple posts are not neccesary

Side: Arguments for
1 point

and no need to get personal or emotional so please go back to the topic of the day which you seem to have forgotten: Christian arguments for and against abortion.

Side: Arguments against
1 point

firstly I believe it is my choice on how I write my posts so please stop deviating and say something of more ounce as for my not stating facts but giving emotional or personal points I say a big HA! to that

Side: Arguments against
Vaan(167) Disputed
1 point

I said it as it skews the tally at the top, and its my debate my rules.

I responded by pointing out how you were falsely attributing fact to opinion. Now start giving proper arguments to the debate.

Side: Arguments for
1 point

ha ha ha please do enlighten me on the rules I wasn't given any and if you haven't noticed it seems to be the topic has been changed due to the statements made previously by both parties

Side: Arguments against
Vaan(167) Clarified
1 point

The rules are simple

1: stick to the topic of the debate

2:refrain from ad hominem

3: respond to points in a rational and justifiable manner

4: back up points with appropriate evidence

Now they are known they are obvious but i'll make sure to clarify it in future debates, now I expect them to be followed

Side: Arguments for