Christian arguments for and against abortion
This debate is for christians to debate Abortion biblically and logically to see where we truly should stand on abortion.
Arguments for
Side Score: 9
|
Arguments against
Side Score: 15
|
|
|
|
This is an argument I wrote some time on this issue. Ok I have decided to write in response to a sermon about abortion given at my church last Sunday. The preacher was one who occasionally speaks on some issues. He is a young doctor who tried to tackle the issue with an emotional/rational mixture which worked for some of the audience but it did not work for me. His main argument was that we shouldn’t have the right to decide whether or not a child dies even in probability cases or in the utilitarian case. His main verses that he used to describe his point is with these verses Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." Psalm 139:13 "For Thou didst form my inward parts, Thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb." Exodus 21:22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.” He points out that God knew us all before birth and knows all of our days. He states that even in horrible circumstances a child should not be aborted, however he does give one exception and that is of ectopic pregnancies where it is likely that both the mother and child will both die. He states that we as Christians should do our very best to help the woman in question and help her in a supportive and non judgemental way. Now my issue is that I believe in a much more moderate and rational case and I do not believe in a one sided case against abortion. I believe in the probability/Utilitarian method and believe that the bible corroborates this point. To start off with I’d like to mention that I dislike the use of the Psalms as evidence as they are usually poetry and are highly emotional and should not be used as a method for basing our life. For example these counter quotes are also found in the Psalms "The wicked go astray from the womb, they err from their birth, speaking lies. They have venom like the venom of a serpent. ... Let them vanish like water that runs away, like grass let them be trodden down and wither. Let them be like the snail which dissolves into slime, like the untimely birth that never sees the sun." (Psalms 58:3-8) "O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" (Psalms 137:8) So I would prefer to not use the Psalms, albeit a lot of the bible is emotional in nature. Now the next issue is by the fact that he stated that life began at conception, however this is not biblically sound. The bible states in many places that breathing is a factor of life, which foetuses do no do. Here are some quotes "...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being."(Genesis 2:7) "Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live." (Ezekiel 37:5) There is even further mention of when life is considered valuable (Moses talking about conducting a census) "...all the first-born males of the people of Israel, from a month old and upward..." (Numbers 3:40) (Moses talking about the value of a human) "If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6) Now my position which is a probability based view, taking into account the possible life the child will have is also taken into account where to die an untimely death is better than life in some circumstances "Cursed be the day on which I was born! The day when my mother bore me, let it not be blessed! Cursed be the man who brought the news to my father, 'A son is born to you', making him very glad. Let that man be like the cities which the Lord overthrew without pity; let him hear a cry in the morning and an alarm at noon, because he did not kill me in the womb; so my mother would have been my grave, and her womb for ever great. Why did I come forth from the womb to see toil and sorrow, and spend my days in shame?" (Jeremiah 20:14-18) "If a man begets a hundred children, and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but he does not enjoy life's good things, and also has no burial, I say that an untimely birth is better off than he. For it comes into vanity and goes into darkness, and in darkness its name is covered; moreover it has not seen the sun or known anything; yet it finds rest rather than he." (Ecclesiastes 6:3-5) "Or why was I not as a hidden untimely birth, as infants that never see the light? There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest. There the prisoners are at ease together; they hear not the voice of the taskmaster. The small and the great are there, and the slave is free from his master." (Job 3:16-19) Now the next point is that unborn children go the heaven, as they were innocent "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sins (Deuteronomy 24:16) "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. (2 Samuel 12:21-23) "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3) So there are no iniquities for an unborn child and the innocent children go to heaven. Now for his point about being knitted together in the womb and being “known”. To me I see this as being in favour of my position as God would know whether or not the child would be aborted. If he really wanted the child to live he would have manipulated things to send the right people into her life to assist her. It also doesn’t account for miscarriages; as if he wanted them to live he would have carried them through to the full term. Thus I must assume that all of these occurrences have a specific purpose and could help to move the person onto a new path as God wills. Also to note is the fact that he makes the distinction of ectopic pregnancies. The issue I have with this is the lack of consistency, there in nothing in the bible that makes this distinction and if one cannot abort in the high probability of a bad existence because it limits God’s will then why should this be any different? This is merely the same issue where probability comes into effect and one can choose to either abide by the possibility of God’s divine intervention or suffer the alternative, so why is his example any more acceptable? One cannot break with consistency if you are maintaining the hardline view. So in summary what I have found is that abortions are ok biblically speaking, and that in probability based cases where there is a likely chance of it being a birth in a broken or unloving family, or being born into a hopeless situation where they are likely to never truly know God and go to hell it is better to let them go to heaven right then. I would make the distinction though that I believe abortion clinics should not have “revolving doors” and that if it is a situation where neither the child nor mother is in danger and the expected life for the child has significant hope in it, then an abortion is not needed and would be nothing more than selfish negligence. What do you guys think? Side: Arguments for
|
Abortion shouldn't be allowed or even thought of because of one very big fat reason. It damages the womb, kills an innocent child you brought into the world either by teenagers casual sex or just for the fun of it. It is very known that every one (except those who have given up on life) don't want to die, that why we eat food, drink water and even make money to keep us alive and comfortable; after saying all this why would you put your life on the line for just 30 mins of pleasure Side: Arguments against
Thirdly the bible is not emotional and if you believe the bible as much as I do you won't think to call psalm emotional there by discarding it for the bible says in rev. 22:19 'and if any man take away from the words of this prophecy (which is the bible), god shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city(heaven), and from the things which are written in this book.' Rev.22:18' if any man shall add unto these things, god shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book(the bible) Side: Arguments against
1
point
rev. 22:19 'and if any man take away from the words of this prophecy (which is the bible) The Bible as we know it didn't even exist at that time. It even specifically says "this prophecy". The Bible is not just one big prophesy, so it is clearly only referring to Revelations. If you truly believe that nothing should be added, then you need to toss out the rest of the Bible. Side: Arguments for
Lastly, I'd like to tell you that you have completely woven the bible to suit your own purpose just as the Pharisees and Saducees did in Jesus's time and if you are a Christian as you have painted the picture to be and you believe in Christ then you would not doubt Gods decisions to let those unborn children die and NOTICE through miscarriages Side: Arguments against
I shall respond to all of your posts as one. Firstly you have failed to respond to my arguments biblically, instead going off on some strange tangent then deciding I must be corrupting the bible, which is not true, I am doing what any apologist should do - thoroughly viewing the evidence for and against scripturally. And yes the psalms are emotional, they are meant to assist us in our prayers as they show the full range of emotions we will feel in our lifetime. Also if God allows children to die in the womb then they must go to heaven to keep his image of mercy, and therefore aborted children must also go to heaven as they are innocents. And finally God knows all that has and will happen, who are you to try and bend fate by notallowing abortions, even in horrific circumstances? And i'm like the heartless pharisees? Hardly. Side: Arguments for
firstly Van I'd like to ask you a very simple question why are you so very keen on murdering innocent babes who are yet in the womb?? the bible says in job the Lord gives and the lord takes away and through it all blessed be the Lord. If you will notice it says THE LORD not VAN gives and takes away. If I am correct which I believe I am you cannot create a mustard seed not to mention a child which you have proved in your last few statements that its alright to kill 'I mean who cares right?' Side: Arguments against
Once again I shall respond in a singular fashion. Firstly its Vaan, not Van. Secondly, of course we can create a mustard seed through germination of mustard plants. And we are getting to a point in Science where we can take a cell and create anything we want, including a child (or rather we are getting close). Thirdly, if the lord giveth and taketh away then you must also disagree with hospitals, medicine and lifesaving treatment to remain logically consistent in that view. Fourthly, I doubt you have read my argument, if you had you would have seen my personal view on abortion and would have ceased the rambling emotional ad hominems. Finally, I stated that you hadn't responded to my arguments biblically. I did note your emotional attempts to discredit me with a couple of random verses thrown in, however overall you have failed to respond to my main arguments in a rational manner. Side: Arguments for
lastly to little misfit the bible actually existed but wasn't known as 'the bible' then and yes you are correct the bible isn't all about prophecy's but it is more of prophecies. lastly I believe if you are a Christian you wouldn't throw the bible away but rather take in every word of it. Side: Arguments against
correction taken 'Vaan' and I must say you're pretty good but there is something you stated than I couldn't help stare in shock so I must say, creating is making something out of nothing, which planting a mustard seed or science cannot do I was pretty sure you knew that well, I'm disappointed. And no, I do not disagree with the hospitals, and life saving treatments so please stop trying to put in my mouth to suite your purposes And of course I have seen your views on abortion which clearly states you are for it and for a witness I have create debate which distinctively tells the whole world 'arguments for' Side: Arguments against
Of course we cant make something out of nothing, that is only logical for physically restrained humans. And if you believe that then you cannot use your statement thst the lord taketh away, because you are limiting Gods will by trying to save yourself. This is simple deduction. My view is not willy nilly killing as you seem to suggest, but rather a rational, circumstance based theory. Side: Arguments for
The rules are simple 1: stick to the topic of the debate 2:refrain from ad hominem 3: respond to points in a rational and justifiable manner 4: back up points with appropriate evidence Now they are known they are obvious but i'll make sure to clarify it in future debates, now I expect them to be followed Side: Arguments for
|