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72
48
True False
Debate Score:120
Arguments:138
Total Votes:120
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 True (57)
 
 False (47)

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Amarel(5556) pic



Christianity is more fundamentally in line with Socialism than Capitalism

Christianity lends more support to Socialism than Capitalism on a number of issues including: poverty, material wealth, charity, and profit/personal gain. America's Religious Right purports to support Capitalism while their moral foundation lies with Socialism. It was a departure from Christian ideals that set Christians down the path of Capitalism.

Both the left and the right advocate the force of law to codify their pet agendas, rendering useless/hypocritical any argument from the right that charity should not be forced. In short, the slow progressive expansion of the left in America is facilitated by the existence of Christianity on the right.

True

Side Score: 72
VS.

False

Side Score: 48
4 points

Liberal media understands this. When the Huffington post puts out 9 quotes from Jesus that support their left leaning bias, Conservatives cannot say a thing.

Supporting Evidence: 9 Jesus Quotes About the Poor (www.huffingtonpost.com)
Side: True
3 points

The Jesus I learned about in grade school didn't say anything about acting in one's own self-interest.

Side: True

It pretty much says in the bible that rich people can't go to heaven. Apparently its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, according to the bible.

Side: True
1 point

I expected this debate to draw a little attention from the religious right. No conservatives on this site take issue here?

Side: True
1 point

Well, only in the way US conservatives define socialism.

Basic socialism only requires state control of industry.

Basic capitalism only requires no state control of industry.

At least that is how I understand it.

Side: True
Amarel(5556) Clarified
1 point

That doesn't seem to make sense. Are you saying that American Conservatives define Socialism in such a way that Christianity is more in line with it?

It's not the functional layout of Socialism that Christianity supports, it's the moral justification.

Side: True
1 point

Socialism is a word that gets instant recognition. Every conservative knows that we don't want socialism. A conservative will call anything that goes against conservatism as socialist to avoid having to do that stuff.

Side: True
flewk(1192) Clarified
1 point

I am saying your point about socialism only works for the connotation that socialism = welfare state.

Actual socialism is just a transition point for communism, at least based on the original theory. Modern socialism still requires state controlled industries even if people have attached welfare (which is more populist than socialist) to it.

The US idea of a welfare state should be impossible in socialism. They commonly think of one group having to pay for the welfare of another. Socialism requires every member of society to contribute and benefit together.

PS: Socialism is still, at its core, an economic system not a moral one.

Side: True
1 point

Why does the Pope support socialism then? He isn't following an American version of Socialism is he?

Side: True
flewk(1192) Clarified
1 point

I believe he is referring to the predominant form of socialism in Europe, social democracy.

If we actually look at these types of "socialist" countries, their economies are capitalistic ones. Majority of the industries are still privately owned.

I don't know... words change a lot. My understand of socialism has always been state-controlled economy. Somehow, the 21st century definition is welfare state.

Side: True
Saintnow(3684) Disputed Banned
1 point

The pope is a liar. Catholicism is an entanglement of paganism, and it's goal is world domination in the New World Order and the anti-Christ will be the dictator.

The pope supports socialism because it's a tool by which the nations are being brought into submission under a world dictatorship....in reality socialism is organized crime in league with globalist corporations whose goal is One World Government and they plan to eliminate 90 percent of the people on the planet today. It's evil.

Side: False
1 point

Two things that Jesus was purported to have said makes me think he would have been a socialist if not a communist today. They are: It is harder for a rich man to get into heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle and sell all your goods, give to the poor and follow me. Obviously, I have paraphrased, but that is the gist of the comments.

Side: True
Saintnow(3684) Disputed Banned
1 point

Jesus gave that directive of selling all possessions to give to the poor to one person......and that was only the lesser half of directive. The bigger part is to follow Jesus, and that means carrying one's cross to deny ones own life and give their life to Jesus. That's much more than giving all your money to the poor.

And again, the directive was given specifically to that one man because Jesus knew the thing that was keeping the man from trusting the Lord...he was trusting in his riches, and Jesus force the guy to face himself. He never told everybody to give all they have to the poor, he never told all rich to give all they have to the poor.

When He conducted the Last Supper, it was in an upper room...that would be a rich man's house in that time. It's a huge deception for people to imply Jesus condoned socialism which is always increases in corruption and ungodliness.....and it's generally people who a nominal Christians at best supporting it, not people who have truly been born again as Jesus said you must be, to see the Kingdom of Heaven. Socialism is ruled by anti-Christ thugs who produce nothing but use force of law to control and steal from those who do produce the things we need. When Jesus returns to Earth, He will overthrow all their corrupt governments and replace them with His benevolent dictatorship and all the poor will be cared for and none will starve. Socialism lets them starve now, while the thugs who control the corporations like organized crime get fat along with the people they say are evil in greed. Socialism will always progress in corruption and never do what it says it will do.....only feigning to care while in reality doing all it can to perpetuate dependency and cause more people to become dependent so they will prop up the ruling elite class of socialist thugs.

Side: False
1 point

Christianity lends more support to Socialism than Capitalism on a number of issues including: poverty, material wealth, charity, and profit/personal gain. America's Religious Right purports to support Capitalism while their moral foundation lies with Socialism. It was a departure from Christian ideals that set Christians down the path of Capitalism.

True. In fact, there was a popular movement in the 80's known as Liberation Theology argued for this (a mix of Marxism and Christianity) and was seen as so highly dangerous to the establishment that they went to "war" with it.

Here are a few sources:

A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9FT5dj9Q8

B. https://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/05/ us-still-fighting-threat-of-liberation-theology/

Side: True
2 points

Who cares what christianity is in line with its only a social construct anyway. Religion is and has been abused to mean so many things over time that it is now just a mechanism for whoever wants to use it.

The most "christian" people I have ever met had never been to church and did not profess to "belong" to any order. They were simply community minded people, friendly, helpful, engaging, good company and good neighbours.

Side: False
Amarel(5556) Disputed
6 points

Who cares what christianity is in line with its only a social construct anyway

Language is a social construct, that doesn't make it somehow unimportant. The point of the debate is that the religious right have an internal contradiction that affects their ability to properly support their own political/economic views.

Side: True

What exactly is this "contradiction"? I'm not picking up on it.

Side: True

While true Christianity is more in line with socialism, what the USA has is not true Christianity and it can be used to promote capitalism. Most people that go to church do so for social status and to promote the idea that they are just and fair, whether they are or not is questionable.

A true Christian would give you the shirt off his back instead of selling you that shirt.

Side: False
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
1 point

"While true Christianity is more in line with socialism"

Then your post would belong on the other side, correct?

Side: True
Thewayitis(4071) Disputed
1 point

My posting is on this side because we are not talking about true Christianity but what the United States calls Christianity.

Side: True
1 point

When Jesus helped the poor, was it through taxes to his government?

Side: False
Amarel(5556) Disputed
1 point

The collective effort with a focus on community (state) sets socialism apart from capitalism, which focuses on individual property rights to drive unimpeded market forces. This collective nature puts Christianity in the socialist camp. It doesn't matter if they encourage charity rather than force it through the state. The goal is the same. And it is different from the goals of capitalism, which is fundamentally individualistic.

EDIT: there's nothing particularly socialistic about taxes.

Side: True
Troy8(2431) Disputed
1 point

Well this is just hogwash. The principle is not at all the same. Jesus does not want us to give to the poor because we are forced to do so, rather because we feel the obligation and desire to do so in our own hearts. Don't ever try to say charity and socialism are similar.

EDIT: there's nothing particularly socialistic about taxes.

Well I'm sure you can infer that I was referring to taxes used to redistribute wealth in a variety of ways.

Side: False
1 point

Quiz time : who was the most well known socialist in the Bible?

Answer: John 12:3-6

Side: False
Amarel(5556) Clarified
1 point

I'm not going to respond to what you have written in this debate. I am going to respond to what you have written in your other debate right before you banned me. After I respond, you will find yourself banned from this debate. It's not how I generally operate, but I want you to see how cowardly I appear when I act the way you have been acting.

You have been nothing but a pest and you expect to find me warm and fuzzy toward you?

I don’t expect a warm fuzzy. I just can’t stand when a pretender casts judgments and damnation in God’s name while claiming humble servitude. It’s dishonest. It’s the kind of filth that pours out of some people after they read Satan’s little book. I am normally more respectful of peoples’ beliefs, but the kind of pious arrogance you project is undeserving of my respect. It’s worse for you because you can see that I am right. I don’t make assumptions about your relationship with God, the way you do to others, I state my observations of your behavior. You act holy, arrogant, and cast judgments in God’s name. Your dishonesty shows when you follow up your condemnation by saying it’s not your judgment, it’s just what God will do. As if a pretender would know. The most honest think you could do is stop talking.

Your debates are not holy courtrooms of God. You are not a judge in God’s lower court. Pretenders need to make others feel small in order to feel big. With God, I refuse to shrink in the face of your empty intimidations.

Side: True
1 point

Socialism is a lie, it's nothing but people stealing in the name of giving to those who have less. The government trying to be Robin Hood, the villain pretending to be the hero....and unlike Robin Hood who fed his merry men, socialism feeds a huge elite ruling class who become as rich or richer than the rich they rob from as they sell themselves as heroes of the poor.

Christianity is a benevolent dictatorship, ruled by the KING of all Kings who is coming back and will rule the world from Mt. Zion with ten thousands of His saints (like me... (-: ... ) Socialism is organized crime ruled by gangs of thugs.

Has anybody found the answer to my question of the name of the best known socialist showing his socialism in John 12:3-6?

Side: False