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Churches destroyed Christianity
Put all your beliefs aside, and think of the christian people 30-40 years ago.. or maybe more?
The 'good' christian. Honor your parents, don't kill, don't steal ... blah blah, you know all those right?
Help the poor, be kind, be faithful.
I think christianity today has become a thing, were people are trying the hardest to stay away from sex, stay away from bad people (people drinking, doing drugs, having sex, smoking).
Basically christianity has become to focus on staying away from stuff, instead of doing good deeds.
Even tho you're not a christian, what do you think of christian nowdays and before, considering what I mentioned above?
Religion destroyed Christianity. And by religion, I mean everything other than the teachings of Jesus - the OT, the churches, the system, the enforcement, the rules, the bullshit, the discrimination, the misinformation, everything.
I am an atheist, yet I cannot deny that the lessons Jesus taught were nothing short of amazing. The messages that he spreads do teach you how to be a better person, and should be beneficial to the world.
However, how his message has been taught, indoctrinated, and abused, into what it is today, is nothing short of shocking and disgraceful. Jesus taught to love your neighbour, and yet Christians will hate, discriminate, and even kill, their neighbours, simply because of what they do in their own bedrooms.
I like most of your post except for the part about Jesus being nothing short of amazing. He still had to resort to threats of eternal punishment to get his point across. Perhaps because he was speaking mainly to ignorant barbarians who only really understood the language of violence, but still. I think telling someone they will burn in hell is kind of a shitty thing to say, especially when it's something behind every other word one says.
Maybe I'm a bit off in my memory of the teachings of Jesus, I learnt it as a child (indoctrination ...). But, I don't every remember being told 'and then Jesus proclaimed 'follow me or you'll go to hell''. In all seriousness, Jesus seemed to take a step back from the punishment aspect of religion, he spoke of loving everything, not discriminating, of helping the poor, not letting them help themselves, of loving your neighbour, not loving yourself. I never remember a lesson where Jesus tried to convert people, he simply told them how to be good.
I may be completely wrong in that, in which case I'll accept that. That would mean that he had many great lessons, but was still a bit of a dick.
I guess I could understand from your Christian perspective drugs being a bad things to partake in, but why abstain from smoking weed? There's no specific Bible verses about it, and god created it, right? It's not like god could've known about blow and pills and whatnot, but what's wrong with the "natural" stuff? After all, John of Patmos was quite possibly on psychedelic mushrooms during most of the time he wrote his Gospel, what makes weed so much worse?
I think christianity today has become a thing, were people are trying the hardest to stay away from sex, stay away from bad people (people drinking, doing drugs, having sex, smoking).
Well those people who say they are Christians but do those kinds of stuff aren't true Christians.
I know I am not going have sex before marriage, do drugs, smoke, drink alcohol, and hangout with bad people.
I am going to have sex once I am married but not drink, do drugs, and hangout with bad people.
Jehova Witnesses, Mormons, babtist, pentecosts.. I could go on.
Mormons aren't Christians.
-They believe Jesus Christ is the brother of Lucifer. Lucifer and Jesus Christ are different from each other they never were brothers in the first place.
They don't believe in heaven and or hell they have their own version of what will happen when they die.
What defines a christian is that you belive in Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God.
Lol nope. Otherwise nobody would be a Christian because Jesus was supposedly perfect. Better said that Christians put in some degree of effort to act like god and then ask for forgiveness when they inevitably fail.
Yes in order to get into heaven we have too believe in God and do His will and follow His ways. Every Christian including myself try to be perfect but we never can because we sin everyday and everyone sinned. Everyday we need God because we have to constantly start over because we make mistakes. Christians can try to be perfect but they will still sin.
This doesn't sound to you like a dog chasing his own tail? Or like someone is shooting at your feet and yelling "Dance, baby, dance!!" You've talked yourself into believing that you are wretched, unworthy, and in a constant state of sin, a state bequeathed upon you by the same god you need to grovel to in order to gain forgiveness for your sins. You god demands either perfection or submission, and since you can never be perfect in his eyes you must submit under pain of eternal torture. You said it yourself, you believe you "need" god in order to cleanse the state god put you in.
Yes a Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ and follow what the Bible says. That means you would do drugs, drink alcohol, have sex before marriage.
If you say your Christian why don't you believe in Hell?
Then what do you think the bible is referring to when it talks about the lake of fire in Matthew 25:31-46 or furnace of fire or weeping and gnashing of teeth?
Well, your right in a way, that many Christians do believe that.
But I don't.
I believe Hell is a metaphor for a punishment.
I believe that those who already chose Jesus on earth, of course they go to Jesus.
But those who didn't chose him on earth, they get another chance in Heaven.
If they still don't wanna spend eternity with God - then they'll get their 'punishment'. Which is that they're gonna just disappear. Their existence will be deleted.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I don't believe God would kill his own son, just so he could have 1/3 of the people he created.
No - God sent Jesus to die on the cross so he could defeat Satan. If he defeated Satan, then we all are going to Heaven - or we all have the opportunity to go to Heaven.
And I believe Jesus won, he defeated and killed Satan on the cross.
I don't think it is made up - its just how I interpreter the bible.
Some people tend to say to me when they hear I don't believe Hell is a place, that you're not a real Christian then - or that if you believe in God you must believe in Satan.
These statements are incorrect.
1.
A real Christian is a person who believe that Jesus died on the cross.
I do believe that - therefore I am a real Christian.
2.
God is all powerful.
He is NOT dependent on Satan - its the other way around.
If you believe in Satan you must believe in God - because Satan is dependent on God.
If you believe Heaven and Hell are places/dimensions (whatever you wanna call it) Then you have to believe (according to the bible) that they are two DIFFERENT places, which are not dependent on each other.
To make a long story short - I don't believe that my loving God and Jesus, would send my atheistic brother to Hell, simply because Jesus already defeated Satan. No Satan, no Hell.
Ps. If there is anything that I mentioned, that you might think was a 'state', remember this is just what I believe.
I am an agnostic theist, I believe everything is possible.
Will do. I was kind of wondering how John 3:16 (those who belive will have eternal life - translated into - those who don't also go to heaven somehow...), but I won't ask.
Instead my question still stands:
What bible verses help you form the opinion that nonbelievers will get another chance to accept God or have their existence deleted rather than the eternal lake of fire with weeping and gnashing of teeth that Jesus mentioned?
Things Jesus says. The bible says that God loves us above all.
Several times in the bible. I'm not gonna mention all the times, and I know you're well awared of that God acutally does this, considering how many times you've argued against me with this particular thing.
I don't believe a loving God would send someone to hell.
There is no verse, that's just how I interpreter the bible.
How can you believe A and not believe B without some cognitive dissonance?
If the same source that says god loves his children says there will be an eternal lake of fire with weepeing and gnashing of teeth - how can you believe one and not the other?
isn't it just as likely that the love part is the metaphore? god seems to "love" his children like Sid from Toy Story loves toys.
God's "love" has never precluded him from toruring and killing his children:
- Genesis 7:21-23 God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses and only saves a single family.
- 2 Chronicles 13:15-18 God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.
- Exodus 12:29 God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
- Numbers 16:41-49 the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
- Joshua 6:20-21 God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing "men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys."
- Deuteronomy 2:32-35 God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children.
- Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan.
- Numbers 31:7-18 the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war.
- 1 Samuel 15:1-9 God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites "men, women, children, infants, and their cattle" for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.
- 1 Samuel 6:19 God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.
- Exodus 32 While Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments, the Israelites invented a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: "Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor." About 3,000 people died.
- Joshua 10:10-11 God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
- Genesis 19:24 God sends fire from the sky to kill everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah except Lot's family. God then kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home. (So Lot's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him...)
- 2 Kings 2:23-24 some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to maul/dismember them.
- Judges 21:1-23 a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.
- Judges 16:27-30 God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.
- Judges 11:30-39 Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites.
- Judges 14:11-19 Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
- Deuteronomy 13:6-10 God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.
- 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
- Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow.
- Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.
Just look how God had a child specifically for the purpose of having him tortured and killed.
And, according to the book of Revelation there is a future of God's "love" to look forward to as well:
Revelation 9:7-19 God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth’s population (currently more than 2 billion people).
I only read the first line, so that is the only one I'm gonna reply to.
Sorry, but I can guess what stands in the other lines - I've heard it all of it before, so don't think you're gonna change any of my views on the bible or God.
Yes, it is certainly likely that the other part is a metaphor. In fact, there is a huge enormous chance, that everything written in the bible is fake. That chance is huge.
But that is just how I chose to live my life. That is how I want to live my life, that is what I believe.
I am not harming anybody with my belief.
Not even homosexuals - because I support gay marriage.
When somebody can show me a real reason why I shouldn't believe, I will without a doubt take it seriously.
But at this point, I am not harming anybody.
You can throw stuff like 'religion is causing war' in my face. But personally I never started a war. Personally I am not the people who are against two people of the same gender getting married.
I can't help what other people who believe the same as I do, do. I can only answer for me, not christianity in general.
I don't believe in Hell, because I don't believe my loving God would send my atheist brother to a place to burn forever.
That was your brother's choice to be atheist. Just like it was your choice to be Christian. God isn't going to send your brother to hell. Your brother will send himself into hell because he choose to have a belief in no God. So its the person who doesn't believe in God that sets themselves up for hell.
No, my brother is not going to hell, because I don't believe Hell exists.
If you don't believe in hell then I guess you don't believe what Jesus said about the story about the rich man and the poor man where the rich man went to hell and the poor man was in heaven and the rich man asked the poor man to dip water into his tongue because it was hot. You must not believe that story that Jesus taught?
Jesus taught about heaven and hell in parables.
If you really believe in a God that is love itself, I really don't see how you can say such a thing.
Its not God who sends people to hell its the person who choose not to believe in Him. That is why we have free will. Adam and Eve abused their free will and the choose to know good and evil and rebel against God. We aren't God's puppets we aren't forced to believe in Him. Its up to the person to make that decision.
If you don't believe in hell then I guess you don't believe what Jesus said about the story about the rich man and the poor man where the rich man went to hell and the poor man was in heaven and the rich man asked the poor man to dip water into his tongue because it was hot. You must not believe that story that Jesus taught?
Jesus taught about heaven and hell in parables.
I believe every story in the bible. But when Hell is mentioned, I believe it is a metaphor, and not a place.
We aren't God's puppets we aren't forced to believe in Him.
But according to you, we are forced to either go to Heaven or Hell - and the God I believe in, the God that says he actually LOVES my brother. I don't believe he would send him to hell.
I believe every story in the bible. But when Hell is mentioned, I believe it is a metaphor, and not a place.
Then why be a Christian if you don't believe in hell? Do you believe in heaven?
But according to you, we are forced to either go to Heaven or Hell - and the God I believe in, the God that says he actually LOVES my brother. I don't believe he would send him to hell.
I never said we are forced to go to heaven or hell. We have a choice to make. To choose God and believe in His word and believe what He said in His Word and we go to Heaven. Or you make the choice to reject God and or choose to be atheist and they go to hell.
Yes God does love your brother but God won't send him to hell it would be him who set himself into hell since he made that choice to not believe in God.
Then why be a Christian if you don't believe in hell? Do you believe in heaven?
Is Hell the only reason you're a christian?
Like I said, I'm a christian because I believe Jesus died for my sins, Hell doesn't make you a christian, God does.
God is not dependent on Satan - Satan is dependent on God.
I never said we are forced to go to heaven or hell. We have a choice to make. To choose God and believe in His word and believe what He said in His Word and we go to Heaven. Or you make the choice to reject God and or choose to be atheist and they go to hell.
God gave us a choice to go either to Heaven or Hell.
There is no place between those two, therefore we are forced to go one of those two ways.
Yes God does love your brother but God won't send him to hell it would be him who set himself into hell since he made that choice to not believe in God.
One of the undenied basic necessities of Man kind. Looking out for its self. The individual. It isn't just Christianity. There are plenty of people who if you ask them " i am holding a jellyfish above you and someone like you's face, you decide, do i drop it on you or him?" And their answer would probably "Oh do it to me, spare him." But when actually faced with this sort of situation, the vast majority would choose to save themselves. This runs in humanity. Of course any adult would choose the child to live, that how it works! But someone the same as them, "Oh well, let it happen to someone else. I can drop litter, someone else can pick it up. I can not be arsed to flush this toilet, someone else can do it. I won't take out the garbage, someone else will do it." E.t.c. Unfortunate, as it may be. And of course i am not the pessimistic type, i am just saying that this is how ( some) peoples brains work.
