Debate Info

Guns laws won't help Guns aren't the problem
Debate Score:9
Total Votes:9
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Argument Ratio

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 Guns laws won't help (4)
 Guns aren't the problem (4)

Debate Creator

MontysPython(521) pic

City with strictest gun laws has 6 dead from yet another shooting


Guns laws won't help

Side Score: 4

Guns aren't the problem

Side Score: 5
1 point

In Death Wish 3, Charles Bronson shot down 35 people who were his enemies. He was hailed as an on screen hero by the adoring public.

In WW2, the Japanese government had a culture whereby young men were taught that killing the emperors enemies by committing suicide was the ,most manly and noble thing you could do. Thousands of young Japanese men took that very seriously and killed themselves for their emperor.

If you allow your entertainment industries to glamourise violent behaviour, glamourise gang behaviour, glamourise criminal behaviour, glamourise the misuse of firearms, and put it in the heads of your dumbest young males that such behaviour is manly, noble, smart, and will win them the affections of the most beautiful girls, then you can hardly be surprised if they start acting in ways they have never acted before your entertainment industries gave them a script on how to be a Real Man.

Every bus driver in Israel is packing a piece or an Uzi, and Israel dies not have the problems which the USA has with firearms. The USA has been armed to the teeth for over a hundred years but this phenomenon of mass murders and massacres is a recent phenomenon. If your society is going off the rails and people are acting in ways they have never acted before, then smart person looks at the factors which have changed in society, not keep bashing a factor which was always present, but never made any difference before.

Side: Guns laws won't help
excon(17400) Disputed
1 point

In Death Wish 3, Charles Bronson shot down 35 people who were his enemies. He was hailed as an on screen hero by the adoring public

Hello B:

Fantasy may indeed beget bad behavior. To blame the fantasy, however, is ridiculous.


Side: Guns aren't the problem
Bogan(51) Disputed
1 point

Violent movies may entertain because we live in a community where entire libraries of law books direct the behaviour of every individual. There exists therefore, a sneaking admiration for individuals who completely ignore laws and what almost everybody agrees on what should be correct behaviour. Mature adults understand that on screen behaviour by heros and villains is simply acting, and the adulation that on screen actors get for their socially unacceptable behaviour is not rooted in reality.

But what mature adults see as entertainment, young men with low IQ's who are poorly parented, poorly socialised, and lacking in self esteem, may see as a script on how to gain the self respect and communal admiration they so desperately crave. Those who think that the on screen images and the on screen messages have no effect upon human behaviour, should remember that the entertainment industry is largely sponsored by the advertising media, who claim the exact opposite.

Side: Guns laws won't help
Bogan(51) Disputed
1 point

Hi excon. If you do not think that violent movies which submit on screen images and all sorts of societal messages about manly and adventurous behaviour, can not be blamed for rising violent crime rates, then perhaps you would support alcohol and cigarette companies advertising in children's magazines? After all, it is only media. it can not influence anybody to do anything?

Your problem in thinking that the entertainment media's images and messages has no effect upon human behaviour is contradicted by the advertising media which claims the exact opposite. Modern advertisers do no say 'Our product is superior to others." What they do, is to find a way to make their product satisfy the deep psychological needs of their customers by making their product reflect that need. Violent movies work the same way. While you claim that violent movies do not affect anybody, the producers of these movies know their customers. These movies are engineered to appeal to low intelligence, low status young males, who internally seethe at what they see as injustices that they are powerless to do anything about. The on screen heroes are usually low status loners and misfits, reflecting the bulk of the movies audience. The on screen heroes antics, which usually involves bad guys doing something dastardly to the hero or his family, results in him tracking down and killing his enemies, one by one.

What you may see as a mature adult as entertainment, immature, poorly socialised young men from fatherless and poverty stricken households, who's primary means of socialisation is a TV set, sees a script on how a Real Man should act and get admiration from an adoring public.

Side: Guns laws won't help
oihjbiojcehm(1) Disputed
1 point

My impression is that the more people are prohibited from doing something, the greater the number of people who want to break the rule; however, the vast majority of people do the right thing. fnaf security breach

Side: Guns aren't the problem

1) Chicago is a 2 hour drive from Indiana were you can get a gun in your happy meal.

2) Mass shootings aren't just about gun laws. They are also an issue of media exposure and a cultural obsession with mass murderers.

3) Let's point out that the killer is a pro-Nazi Trump supporter, let's not conveniently ignore that. Especially after what happened at the capitol.

4) Gun laws work when the system is funded and you don't have half the government crippling gun laws and reasearch into gun ownership. Try getting nuclear grade uranium and you'll realize how effective gun laws will work.

Side: Guns aren't the problem
SexyJesus(207) Disputed
1 point

1) Chicago is also home to an Amazon distribution center housing 3d printers and, by my count, 20 different hardware stores. If you want deadly weapons in Chicago - and that only starts with firearms, thank fuck this guy wasn't smart enough to scatter any pipe bombs in trash cans - it doesn't require a 2 hour drive. That applies to just about anywhere in the first world.

2) Yeah, your point here isn't wrong. Still doesn't help, when you're being shot at, to not be able to shoot back. There's no honor in putting yourself at a disadvantage when you're fighting for your life, especially when you've got a family to protect.

3) A dubious claim at best. Showing up at a Trump rally in a fucking Where's Waldo outfit sounds more like a troll than any kind of political activist. And frankly, we have no reason at this time to assume that this was politically motivated, to say nothing of the left wing violence that's been ongoing for two fucking years.

4. No, they fucking don't. A refinement facility for nuclear material is a big, immovable, expensive, easy target for a MOAB dropped from a C130. (That's a big fucking bomb dropped from a big fucking plane if you're not familiar.) A tabletop mill, a 3d printer and a hardware store are available to every single person in the first world, and the knowledge of how to make guns isn't going back in Pandora's box. There's a reason prohibition of alcohol failed, there's a reason the drug war failed, and it's the same reason a war on guns will fail: you just can't stop distribution when demand is high and production is easy.

Side: Guns laws won't help