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Colonize Another Solar System
Discovery of potentially habitable planets in other solar systems has opened up the real possibility of humanity one day colonizing these planets and building a galactic civilization. Do you think we should do this? Why or Why Not?
I think it would be good, we could learn a lot from the new planet and start a civilization having already learned from our mistakes here on earth. Having one or more other planets would also increase the likelihood of our species persisting in the universe, which, although not necessary, is a predisposition of most and a nice idea.
I have no real delusions about the fact that these planets would almost perfectly isolated from one another for the most part but as more and more planets are colonized and technology advances we might one day be able to travel between the planets generation to generation or by something like criogenic suspension.
It is something we certainly will do someday and should. That way there will be less chance of our extinction and would be a wonderful opportunity to discover more about our universe.
I see it because of the innate nature of humans. We are driven to understand and explore. There will be no new regions on Earth to explore and tame and so in time I see it as inevitable unless we are eradicated first.
YES,YES,YES, this is the only way we as humans will ever reach immortally, if we do not we will just become another blip on the cosmic radar.
At this rate we will not make it, I fear we are to busy obsessing over our own personal greed and lust for power through religion & politics to see the big picture.
However if we ever get to a point of universally understanding that there is no "I" in "HUMAN" we then need to make space exploration our number one priority, It's that important and as simple as this, "if we do not colonize other solar systems the human race is dead".
It is one thing to colonize the moon, a destination to which we have the capabilities of traveling, but the nearest solar system would, with current technology, take a few hundred thousand years to reach, and is therefore far from feasible.
that is why I put ASAP - as soon as possible. I know it is not realistic in the contemporary state of technology but when it is reasonably possible I think we should do it
Nothing we could construct for such a mission can survive the hundreds of thousands of years required to travel to the nearest star, much less the nearest habitable planet.
Einstein also wasn't a big believer in quantum mechanics, which is now widely accepted as true. Sure, he was a genius, an inspiring leader, and helped reinvigorate interest in physics, but he was not right about everything. I could just as easily quote Arthur C. Clarke, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It is not outside the realm of belief to think we could one day build spaceships that were self sustaining and could thus travel the light years to various star systems. Or it would be possible (perhaps) to just have frozen embryos, or human DNA, and an automated spaceship to reduce the cost of life support, so that the spaceship could take as long as it wanted to to get to another star system, and then the humans would be "born" on the new planet.
Since ASAP is a part of the title, it seems that this proposition is not unreasonable. Of course, we won't be sending anyone to any new star system anytime soon, but if we are to assure human survival beyond the lifetime of the Sun, humans will probably have to move to another solar system. Of course, humans will probably eventually die out either before then, or will probably die before the heat-death of the universe (assuming current theories are correct about the end of the universe). But should the opportunity present itself, I say why not?
I did write If Einstein is to be believed. I have previously argued against Einstein's Theory of Relativity.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke, though truly a marvelously smart man, to use a cliché, was no Einstein.
It is not outside the realm of belief to think we could one day build spaceships that were self sustaining and could thus travel the light years to various star systems.
I beg to differ in your claim that it is not outside the realm of belief to think that we could ever build a craft capable of surviving on its own for hundreds of thousands of years without any assistance or back-up from earth. Think of how much we have progressed simply in the last five thousand years: we've gone from being without an alphabet to, well, this. Ten thousand years ago we had rock shelters, and humans were nomadic only a handful of thousands of years ago. Now, how in the world would an independent, completely alone civilization inside of a spacecraft survive for about 100 times that duration? How would the spacecraft itself last for so long? How would the craft become fueled? How would we know where to go? Surely Alpha Centauri or Wolf 359 cannot be expected to have orbiting them earthlike planets! We're talking about potentially millions of years as long as Einstein was accurate.
Or it would be possible (perhaps) to just have frozen embryos, or human DNA, and an automated spaceship to reduce the cost of life support, so that the spaceship could take as long as it wanted to to get to another star system, and then the humans would be "born" on the new planet.
I still argue that, no matter the scenario, it is never to be possible.
Since ASAP is a part of the title
No it's not.
but if we are to assure human survival beyond the lifetime of the Sun
Why? The sun isn't expected to die for a few billion years. Do you really expect humanity to survive that long?
But should the opportunity present itself, I say why not?
" Now, how in the world would an independent, completely alone civilization inside of a spacecraft survive for about 100 times that duration?"
The easiest scenario for a civilization to survive that time would be cryogenics, with periodic thawing to replenish the population.
"How would the craft become fueled?"
The craft would only need fuel for the initial period of acceleration and the period of deceleration. Other than that, it could perhaps run systems off a nuclear reactor or solar panels.
Actually, I still like my freezing of the human genetic material, and then the cloning/fertilization of the humans when the ship is approaching/orbiting the new planet as the most plausible idea. At the rate technology is advancing, it doesn't seem to me like we won't develop artificial intelligence capable of this level of management in thousands to millions of years from now.
"Surely Alpha Centauri or Wolf 359 cannot be expected to have orbiting them earthlike planets!"
Why would you say that? And why would Alpha Centauri or Wolf 359 be our only proposed destinations? Barnard's Star is closer than Wolf 359, and Epsilon Eridani has two proposed planets (and it is just 3 light years further than Wolf 359). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_stars)
"We're talking about potentially millions of years as long as Einstein was accurate."
I wouldn't say millions of years. Project Daedalus (funded by Google and the British Interplanetary Society in the 1970s) said that with current technologies (mind you, 1970s technology) we could make it to Barnard's Star in 50 years, achieving only 20% the speed of light. The method of propulsion was detonating nuclear material behind the craft to accelerate it rapidly up to 60,000 km/s. I believe 50>>a million.
"I still argue that, no matter the scenario, it is never to be possible."
That is not an argument. That's a claim with absolutely no support.
"No it's not."
Excuse me, I was referring to the tags. I misspoke.
"The sun isn't expected to die for a few billion years. Do you really expect humanity to survive that long?"
I hope so, but of course, I have no evidence to suggest we will. (But I could use this time as a plug for why we should expand throughout our own solar system to decrease the chances of human extinction).
"The opportunity can't present itself."
I repeat my statement before: this is not an argument; it is a claim with no supporting evidence.
as soon as possible not now. it is automatically feasible because we do it when we can. i say we need to asap cuz our sun is a time bomb and possibly aliens a lot later
First of all, I had a hard time reading your argument. If you aren't going to write a coherent rebuttal to my rebuttal (i.e. THIS), don't bother to write one at all.
it is automatically feasible because we do it when we can
Physics tells us that we never can do it. "Warp Speed" is pure fantasy, it isn't physically possible.
i say we need to asap cuz our sun is a time bomb and possibly aliens a lot later
Our sun is a time bomb? Sure, a few billion years from now!
yes i know the sun will explode in a few billion years. i say we colonize as soon as possible. it will only be possible in a few billion years. so therefore doing it in a few billion years, when the sun is close to exploding, is asap.
thats a stupid point. for all we know we are gone tomorrow. planning for tomorrow and assuming we are alive tomorrow is not naive. naive would be not planning in the plausible event that we ARE in fact alive tomorrow. this is all about should we colonize another galaxy, my point being in a billion years yes, is just planning. your point is completely irrelevant
I agree that it is not naïve to plan for tomorrow. It mayn't even be stupid to plan for twenty years from now. It is, however, stupid to plan only in the centuries. Nothing we come up with now will exist in a million years. Little that we can create now will still exist in only a few thousand years. When talking about the cosmologically huge span of billions of years, and saying that we should plan for the sun's death billions of years from now, you are talking silly, plain and simple. Whatever we "plan" will not exist in billions of years.
I'm saying for purposes of this debate we must plan asap. I'm not drawing blueprints for a rocket now. I'm saying as soon as its an issue we need to get a move on.
It shan't be an issue for billions of years, which is pretty much the same thing as saying that it shan't ever be an issue. The "humans" of a hundred million years from now will be so evolutionarily different from us that we may be as nothing.
whatever man thats totally irrelevant. the point is not it "shan't" be an issue for billions of years or we will be so evolutionary different. the point is eventually we need to colonize other galaxies or else we will not continue. thats a fact.
No, that is not a fact. The closest thing we have to a fact in this entire argument is the Theory of Relativity, which states that nothing can travel passed the speed of light. Without faster-than-light travel, we can get nowhere. There will be nothing remaining of the homo sapien billions of years before the date by which you are crying "we must save our species".
the theory of relativity's a theory. it is fact that our sun will one day explode and kill us. it is a fact we need to colonize other galaxies to escape our son, also theory of relativity is wrong bud. neutrinos go faster than light
It would be bad to deprive other aliens' of their home-worlds right? Besides, let nature decide on our lives, no use getting to a place so far out of reach. Who knows? Maybe the colony might even become an independent state?
It would be bad to deprive other aliens' of their home-worlds right?
This isn't Star Trek. There mayn't be such a thing as an alien's home-world. Even if there is, we haven't a Prime Directive, and ought never get one if the future leads us on just such a path.
It's possible, but we probably won't do a good job of it looking at how we're fucking this planet up. Simply going to the next planet isn't going to rid our careless and irreverent attitude towards our environment.
Our planet is one of a kind, it's the only planet we know that harbours life, and look how much we're doing to maintain and protect it...