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Debate Info

Debate Score:268
Arguments:255
Total Votes:291
Ended:03/17/16
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Delvis(221) pic



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Consciousness is not the product of the brain. Who is willing to be the first

Add New Argument
2 points

Gasoline isn't what keeps a car going! Who is willing to be the first victim?

Windmills don't need wind to produce power, it just so happens that they decide to spin on their own as the wind starts blowing!

Just because x happens after y, does not mean that y causes x!

Delvis(221) Disputed
2 points

...................................................Wait, wait.................... are you an atheist ?

ProLogos(2798) Disputed
1 point

I don't know how you extrapolated that from my post but you failed.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

He's throwing out a red herring, implied that a windmill has consciousness.......he's trying to cover up what he said with confusing and meaningless facts.......yes it's true a windmill does not need wind to create power, it does not need to create power, it does not need anything because it has no needs. It's inanimate with or without wind.

2 points

Well. there are 10, 456,733 reasons. But I'm sure we don't need to go through all of them. So let's stick with the basics. Matter is not conscious. And if our consciousness was the product of the brain, then consciousness would be a product of matter. Which means we would not be the exception. So you have 2 alternatives :

1) Postulate that every single piece of matter in the universe is conscious-- every rock on the road and every vacuum cleaner.

2) Or just us.

Which one of those 2 do you think leads to a stupid, moronic, imbecilic, and idiotic contradiction ?

Jace(4757) Disputed
3 points

Your false dichotomy and baseless claims are very persuasive.

IAmSparticus(1517) Clarified
2 points

First, why do you believe that simply because matter is not conscious, consciousness can not come from matter?

Second, what is your justification for saying that the only two options are everything is conscious, or only we are? You've unnecessarily reduced it to a point of absurdity, from a logical perspective, and without stating any justification for reducing it to those two options.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

It is absurd to believe consciousness comes from matter. The point is made clearly and well. It is you who cannot make a good contradictory argument. Complaining and whining the way you are doing does not count as an argument. Quit crying and try to put together a rational argument to dispute the OP if you think I can. I'm waiting to mock you.

Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

Go read, cracker. If you didn't understand it, blame your brain.

Delvis(221) Clarified
0 points

""""First, why do you believe that simply because matter is not conscious, consciousness can not come from matter?"""////

I'm sure you thought that that was an intelligent question. It only shows once again why people here think you're stupid.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Fact: matter in living beings displays properties not seen in matter of non living things. Therefore, you have failed to present a contradiction.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Just because you are too stupid to realize that matter is not conscious and does not produce consciousness does not prove you are brainless.

nobodyknows(745) Disputed
1 point

Let me try this. My car door cannot drive me to school. My stereo cannot drive me to school. My tailpipe cannot drive me to school. None of the individual parts of my car can drive me to school. Therefore my car cannot drive me to school.

Holy crap dude. Your argument saved me from having to go to school!

If a computer became conscious, would you change your stance or simply deny it was happening?

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

If a computer becomes conscious, that consciousness came from consciousness...it was intelligently designed by conscious people.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

If a computer becomes conscious, that consciousness came from consciousness...it was intelligently designed by conscious people.

Please ask Richard Dawkins why atheists think they are smart when they ask stupid questions and say stupid things.

Iulmi(251) Disputed
1 point

Matter is not conscious. Okay.

And if our consciousness was the product of the brain, then consciousness would be a product of matter. Yes.

Which means we would not be the exception.

Okay, but this does not imply that consciousness is matter. It just implies that consciousness comes from matter. Now, that is a common mistake, which contradicts logic.

If it rains, you get wet. But if you get wet -ahem- it does not necessarily mean that it is raining.

0 points

I gotta hand it to you, you do have good style in presenting objective truth....I hope you are saved or get saved before it's too late.

Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

............................

...........................

Who are you talking to ?

Clearly you do not have a brain but, apparently, are still sufficiently conscious to scribble nonsense over the internet. However, you must recognize that you are a unique freaky specimen who may benefit from a trip to The Wizard of Oz.

2 points

If consciousness (as I understand it) is not part of the brain, then why does a good hit to the head(that jars the brain) make someone unconscious?

1 point

What is it a product of?

Oohh oohh, me, I'll play!

Go ahead, state your argument as to how consciousness is not the product of the brain.

1 point

Oohh oohh, me, I'll play!

Go ahead, state your argument as to how consciousness is not the product of the brain.

First we are going to need to discover how intelligence works.

How does intelligence work?

This is obviously relevant, btw.

ProLogos(2798) Disputed
1 point

Intelligence doesn't work. Our brains work to use intelligence.

Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

................................

..............................Idiot, lets go one on one

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-1 points

Quit being an ignoramus and read the OP and the first supporting post. You are acting like an idiotic clown because you have to way of refuting the OP...probably smoking too much dope to care.

1 point

Guys, IAmSparticus asked : ''why do you believe that simply because matter is not conscious, consciousness can not come from matter?"""

She doesn't understand how this question is stupid, so I will show her.

It's for the same reason that an intelligent question cannot come out of her brain. Something cannot produce what is not contained in that something, whether in actuality or in potential

1 point

It really shouldn't be this difficult for you to answer simple questions and defend your stances.

Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

And it shouldn't be difficult for you to understand when a question is stupid

1 point

You missed out man. His last sentence was his claim. You missed the opportunity to best him. Couldn't see the forest through the insults, or something like that.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You are made of matter, and you have consciousness. Therefore, there is matter that theoretically can produce consciousness because it does contain consciousness. You have failed to provide a contradiction. That is like saying that if one rock does not have any gold in it, you can't possibly find a rock with gold in it.

1 point

Holy shit!!! He called you a "sperm face." Are you going to take that?

Delvis(221) Disputed
-1 points

.............................................................

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..fuck of , sperm face. Whos talking bto you

1 point

Remember what is the purpose of an open debate for me.

It's to find any aheist brave enough to go one on one.

Atheist love open debates because they cowardly spit idiocies in tag team fashion. Look at my past my past debates to see what happens to them when they go one-on-one

1 point

I still don't get why you tout your record, seeing as how you continuously run away mid conversation.

It's not a record to be proud of, you know.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
0 points

Look at my past my past debates to see what happens to them when they go one-on-one

You definitively lost to AveSatanas.

You never made any arguments that could win a debate.

Your record is atrocious.

1 point

So, any reasons why you dillwits believe consciousnees is produced by the brain ?

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

What do you think produces consciousness? You see, in order for you to reject the idea of the brain producing consciousness you will have to put forth your idea that you can't defend. That's right, undefeated.

Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

""""you will have to put forth your idea that you can't defend. That's right, undefeated."""////

Shut up kid. Your talking to a trained pro here. Fuck of

1 point

.............................................................................................

Anyone dare to make a move ? I can show how logic leads to the conclusion of the immateriality of consciousness and mind. But I do it in a one on one.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Talk about asking stupid questions. I have twice picked apart your worthless arguments and you still ask if someone dares make a move.

1 point

You have yet to do it at all, let alone one on one.

Is that because you think you can hide in private conversations? Because people can see them, and see you running away from them.

1 point

..................................

..............................................

.................................No one on one ? Awww, how cute you guys are

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Aww man. Blind and stupid is a terrible way for you to go through life. I thought you were just stupid.

1 point

Hello can you please give me your opinion on my Apple vs FBI debate

Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

...........................

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

........Of course I can give you my opinion. you're an idiot.

1 point

Don't worry guys. It's not like I expected this to be a serious debate. There are dozens of ways that I can demonstrate that consciousness cannot be created by the brain. But I'll just mention a basic one :

The Philosophical Zombie Model-- aka, The Hard Problem of Consciousness.

It demonstrated that it is impossible for science to study consciousness,

Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

Just because science can't study consciousness doesn't mean that consciousness doesn't come from the brain. You have to also show that science can study everything about the brain.

If this is such an easy debate for you why did you put up horrible arguments for a week and a half before you stole someone else's idea?

1 point

............................

...........................

You guys go debate between you 2 fckn elsewhere !

1 point

Well, This was quite an easy debate. I'm not surprised because Consciousness is a complex subject for most. But I demonstrated that it is illogical to assume that it is produced by the brain.

Wow, imagine when I bring the subject............ that matter does not exist !

1 point

You demonstrated nothing, except your own inability to substantiate your arguments.

You sure love declarations. The more unsubstantiated the better, eh?

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You were conquered at least three times with your worthless arguments. You have shown that you have the least understanding of consciousness in this entire debate, and that includes blizzardbird who doesn't understand anything.

1 point

...........................

.........................

.......................My people, vote for Trump. Its almost over

2 points

Talking to yourself is generally indicative of a serious mental condition. I highly recommend you get to the bottom of it.

And while you are there, get checked out for your Trump support. It might be indicative of an even more serious condition :P

0 points

What does this have to do with consciousness and the brain?

1 point

Read the title. This was an invitation to whatever idiots wants to go against me one on one. So why are you imbeciles still commenting ?

1 point

Because it's fun to watch you utterly fail at this facade you put on.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You have lost 3 times in a debate trying to setup a debate. That's terrible efficiency.

1 point

..............................................

Anyone ?

Cartman(18192) Disputed
0 points

You lost 3 times. What else is there to debate one on one?

1 point

You must remember, if I call you an idiot, its meant to point to an aspect of you. You must learn to accept your reality. Only then can you do something about it

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You can't even accept that you aren't undefeated. Why should anyone accept your assessment that they are an idiot?

1 point

Consciousness comes from God, not from matter. Consciousness hsnothign todo with matter, it just is inside of matter. God created humans, which means he created consciousness. Case closed.

Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

...........................Uhh, I know. But notice this one is over. And I did it all alone. But thanks anyway

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You lost 3 times. It didn't take any help to lose that many times.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Where is your proof that God created humans? Case reopened.

Dmc4(11) Disputed
1 point

Two atoms cannot create intelligent life such as a human, we don't even know that much about our own brains because they are so complex, there is no way that two atoms that just randomly appeared on day and collided created us. And if you think they did, well then, what created the atoms? Because based on the laws of science nothing can be just have always been there, something would have had to created those atoms in order for them to exist.

1 point

My people, what subject would you like to see me debate next ?

1 point

Next? You mean first. You have run away from every debate so far.

1 point

Victim my ass.

Let's go, amigo!

I will take your offer.

I submit....

The phenomenon we homo sapiens refer to as "consciousness" is indeed a product of our central nervous system. More specifically, the 3-lb organ we refer to as the brain.

What we refer to as "the mind" is simply the brain's "software."

All that we are: our personalities; our hopes; desires; fears; hell, even our obsession with finding causes and patterns--like fictitious gods--are products of our minds. More specifically, they are fomented by the various balances and interactions of chemicals in our brains. Which we call neurotransmitters.

We have even induced so-called "god experiences" in subjects by inducing mild electro-stimulation to the specific part of the brain where this feeling occurs.

That area is the Amygdala, which resides in the Limbic Center, and is called by Psychiatrists and Neurologists "the seat of our emotions."

Thus far, there has been ZERO proof of any hint of a soul. Of anything in our minds that cannot be thoroughly explained by us scientists. Especially neurosurgeons.

No brain = No consciousness. This in itself proves that the former is the cause of the latter.

Here is my first shot. Read the link and learn.

I will be awaiting for you to provide a credible link or source to support your idea.

Thanks.

If you do not read this link and prove to me you can understand it I will not argue with you further, as I will then believe oyu are not worth my time as a scientist and Evolutionary Psychology major.

http://thebrainbank.scienceblog.com/2013/03/04/what-is-consciousness-a-scientists-perspective/

1 point

Argument from Intentionality for the difference Consciousness and brain :

1) Mental states, such as hoping, believing, knowing, wishing, dreaming, etc., are intrinsically intentional and nonphysical, immaterial in nature.

2) No physical, purely material thing is intrinsically intentional.

3) By Leibniz’s Law, For any x and any y, if x is identical with y, then any characteristic or property possessed by x is possessed by y, and any characteristic or property possessed by y is possessed by x.

This implies that If x has a characteristic that y does not have or y has a characteristic that x does not have, then x is not identical with y.

4) So Conscious states such as hopes, wishes, desires, knowledge, etc., are nonphysical, immaterial in nature.

5) But the brain is purely physical in nature—it is a physical or material entity.

Conclusion : Consciousness is not a product, nor is it equal, to the brain.

-1 points

Uneducated atheists are even more amusing.

The emergent properties of a complex system must be deducible from the properties of the lower-level components of the system.

But when it comes to consciousness, nothing allows us to deduce the properties of subjective experience from the mass, momentum, spin, charge, or any other property of subatomic particles bouncing around in the brain.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

So, since I don't like you thinking you made a real argument, I will address what you wrote.

The emergent properties of a complex system must be deducible from the properties of the lower-level components of the system.

Conversely, that means that if a property is not deducible from lower-level components of the system the complex system can't have that emergent property. So, since humans have consciousness we know that we must be able to deduce consciousness in some of the lower-level components of humans.

But when it comes to consciousness, nothing allows us to deduce the properties of subjective experience from the mass, momentum, spin, charge, or any other property of subatomic particles bouncing around in the brain.

This doesn't prove what you want it to prove. You are attempting to point out that you can't deduce a property in all of the lower-level components of complex system. According to your previous statement, that only means that the overall complex system does not have that property. All you can do is prove that humans don't have consciousness, which we know is not true.

0-4, sorry. I am counting this as a separate loss since you decided that your incorrect statement was still valid.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
0 points

Emergent properties are not seen in the lower level components. You are committing the fallacy of division.

Now you are 0-3. Man, bad debate for you.

Supporting Evidence: Fallacy (www.researchgate.net)
Delvis(221) Disputed
1 point

"""Emergent properties are not seen in the lower level components"""////

Who said they are ?

See that ? People message me telling me that I should show

compassion for you because it is not your fault that you are not intellectually talented. I must not be a nice person, because people who don't know how to read like you just make me think you're stupid

1 point

Good job.

Speaking of "jobs"--I just jobbed this idiot too!

See my post.

I took umbrage to his use of the word victim. It angered me, so I reckon to make him my bitch in this debate.