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Dear Christians: Jesus has already had his 'second coming'.
In case you were unaware I'm probably the least religious person ever (shock horror, I know), but I was doing some thinking and in the Christian Bible Jesus is supposed to have his second coming where he comes back to life to save all the goody-goody's, am I right? Well didn't Jesus already have his second coming then? Sure he didn't save anyone by coming back to life, but if I remember my mythologies correctly then after Jesus died the Christian God brought him back to life for a few days for whatever reason.
I could be wrong, I don't exactly like reading Christian Bible's too often (by memory I burnt the only copy I ever had in a bon-fire), so correct me if I'm wrong; but it was just a thought.
There wasn't an option for "Christians don't read the Bible or else they'd know he isn't coming back" so I picked yes.
3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon. Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers. The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense. Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.
4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes.
Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Mark 13:30-31 NAB)
He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power." (Mark 9:1 NAB)
5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.
"Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27 NAB)
No. When he is preaching about the "Kingdom of God" coming before the end of the lifetime, he is not preaching about an end-world scenario. He is speaking about the Day of Pentecost. That shows up at a later date in the New Testament.
No. When he is preaching about the "Kingdom of God" coming before the end of the lifetime, he is not preaching about an end-world scenario. He is speaking about the Day of Pentecost. That shows up at a later date in the New Testament.
Sounds logical to me. But no Christian would agree with that. t
Though I'm laughing too hard about you burning your copy to think properly :') Sounds like I found something to burn in my new years bonfire I do every year. ;)
The bible might be composed of half baked mythology, falsehoods, exaggerated truths, fantasies, fairy tales, and outright lies, but it is still one of the greatest books ever written, very few scholars would deny this. Militant athiest scholars would, but thats only because the bible is anathema to them.
The bible still contains centuries of accumulated wisdon, therefore you shouldn't be so blasé in when asserting its worthlessness it is.
Jesus hasn't came back yet. But the signs are coming true because in the Bible it says there will be birth pains meaning there will be earthquakes in various lands and also there would be nations rise against nations and everyone will be against Israel and there will be more natural disasters. Also if Jesus already came then all the Christians should have been raptured and into heaven already while all the nonbelivers,atheist,agnostics and people who didn't believe will be left behind for 7 years and that will be the Tribulation where the antichrist will come and do horrible things in that time like the mark of the beast if you accept it your doomed to hell if you accecpt the mark of the beast.
No they're not. You live in a small bubble with 0 perspective on the world. You have no idea what is going on now with respect to the past because you have a very low IQ plus you refuse to listen, think, read anything that doesn't support your own very narrow perspective. A person can tell people like you any crazy thing and if they say "Jesus" before and after you will believe them.
in the Bible it says there will be birth pains meaning
You nor the morons you listen to have any idea what the bible means. All you can do is pull wild guesses out of your ass--or more often take it to mean whatever happens to suit you in the moment.
earthquakes in various lands
There are no more or less earthquakes today than in the past. There's nothing special about right now as far as that is concerned.
nations rise against nations
._. Again, there have always been wars. If anything the decades since WWII have seen less of them. Minus the religious right's bloodthirsty nature and the random wars they start every time you get a little power in this country, the sane segment of our society has managed to keep your love affair with wars at bay more or less thankfully.
everyone will be against Israel
And who do you imagine is "against Israel" right now? Because every single world super power supports Israel, and no serious person with an ounce of power in this country has given any hint the US would stop supporting Israel. It is only in your cult meetings you begin circle-jerking over this imaginary concept that there are forces besides a couple insignificant third world countries "against Israel".
and there will be more natural disasters
Again though, there haven't been significantly more or less disasters in recent years... so wtf are you talking about?
Also if Jesus already came then all the Christians should have been raptured and into heaven already
If only it were so. I for one would be ecstatic if you all went away. The sad fact is there is no god to make your evil horrid cult disappear magically, only logic and knowledge can cure the Christian disease, and this over centuries not a night. That said, if everything in the Bible were true than very few Christians would be raptured. Most of you are not good people even by twisted Biblical terms.
while all the nonbelivers,atheist,agnostics and people who didn't believe will be left behind for 7 years and that will be the Tribulation where the antichrist will come and do horrible things in that time like the mark of the beast if you accept it your doomed to hell if you accecpt the mark of the beast.
Yeah, 'cause all of that sounds perfectly believable. It sounds nothing like the rantings of an insane person (yawn).
But just pretending this terrible Christian god were half as evil as you describe him, what about kids and babies and retarded people who can't think for themself? What about people in places that have never heard of your comically sadistic god? Do they get to go to hell too? I imagine so. Your god is not one too concerned with justice apparently.
Why are you constanlty attacking me? Every time when I post something about Christian stuff you attack my like flies on poop. It sounds like you don't like me and you hate me because of my belief. Like the last agrument you asked why am I here that tells me you don't like me when I am here. You start getting angry and start swearing while I stay calm it looks like sometime the truth hurts dude. I stay calm when I am talking to you but you accuse people go after them. Why don't you fix yourself before coming to me? Examine yourself first what you have done wrong first so you can see then come back to me and tell me what's wrong with me?
All you do is keep attacking. One of these days the truth will come to you and you will realize that all those stuff I said about Christian stuff and God is true. I am going to be on this site until I win the battle. I have God on my side and I will never give up on my beliefs and I wil fight hard until the debate is over. All you have is all your science fiction crap that doesn't even make sense and your own brain.
You have over 600 arguments on this site, and despite all of that your debates are not a sliver more intelligent than the first ridiculous thing you wrote down here.
Explaining things to you does not seem to work, another tactic is to try to humiliate you enough that you actually want to learn something simply so you do not sound so juvenile.
It's not even so much what you believe as you simply state your beliefs with no evidence and no argument which would support your case.
Even worse than being nothing more than a blowhorn for your religion, you don't understand that you are not giving reasons for things.
It would be as if I said "how does a slingshot work?" And instead of explaining how the force of the elastic material accelerates the mass at a rate of the force divided by the mass, or anything that gives a reason.
Instead your answer is "jesus made it that way."
It is literally the definition of stupid and you're older than 5 so you need to get smarter.
I do give evidence. Jesus was alive. There was scriptures and witnesses that saw Jesus when He was alive. All the 4 gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John give evidence that Jesus was alive. They saw with there own two eyes. That's just like me not believing what you saw 2 days ago because I wasn't there to see what you saw.
How are people going to know that you existed 500 years from now? They have records and evidence that you are alive. Some people might say that you didn't exist but you really did. Its the same thing with Jesus when He was alive there are records and statements from witnesses that He was alive. And the Bible recorded it.
I do give evidence about Jesus but you think that the Bible is fiction, Jesus was never alive, and that there is no God. You say that the Bible gives little proof and evidence that Jesus existed and was alive. So how am I suppose to work or cooperate with you when you reject the evidence that I gave and the proof that I just gave you.
If you want physical evidence I can't give that to you because Jesus is already in Heaven and He was on this earth a long time ago. When He comes back to the earth and everyone will see HIM, you will have your evidence, but it might be too late for you to believe. I can't tell you or show you the wind because you can't see the wind but you see the effects of wind. Neither can I show you gravity because you can't see but you see the effect that gravity has.
I wrote down on a piece of paper that a three-headed elephant man that could walk on water and teleport talked to me. According to you, his existence is a fact. It was written down, therefore it must have been real.
If you want physical evidence I can't give that to you because Jesus is already in Heaven and He was on this earth a long time ago. When He comes back to the earth and everyone will see HIM, you will have your evidence
So what you are saying is that you need a time machine to confirm your beliefs. That is absurd.
The Bible is evidence. Matthew,Mark,Luke and John saw Jesus and wrote it down. Not to mention Saul when He was perscuating the Christians, he saw Jesus and also heard Him speaking. That is 5 different people who saw Jesus, not to mention no more than 500 witnesses saw Jesus when He rose from the grave,making a total of 505 people saw Jesus rise from the grave. Did four people see what you saw when you wrote down on a piece of paper about a three headed elephant man? The four apostles who wrote the gospel saw the same exact thing but they wrote different styles and they all agreed on one thing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that He rose from the grave.
I don't need a time machine. You didn't read what I posted I said you WILL see Him when He is coming back down on this earth. But it will be already to late for you to believe. And you will have your evidence.
Matthew,Mark,Luke and John saw Jesus and wrote it down
And I just wrote down that a three-headed, teleporting, elephant man discussed politics with me... Using your logic, his existence is undeniable (after all I wrote it down).
Where is the proof that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John saw him? Why can't things just be written down and declared as fact?
not to mention no more than 500 witnesses
Where are their testimonies? Even if they all did claim to see him, that does not make it fact.
Just because a large number of people believe something does not make it true. Millions believed the world was flat. Does that make it true?
I said you WILL see Him
Sigh. Where is the evidence for this? And if you quote the bible...
So millions saw 9/11 when planes hit the two towers so according to you that does not make it true or fact as you say. How about those people who where in New York and was traveling and saw it and told other people what they saw, according to you Even if they all did claim to see does not make it fact You have to remember back then they did not have cameras, internet and the technology that we have today, so what did they have? They had only pen and paper and word of mouth. A lot of people do not have the money to publish books on what they saw on 9/11 so what do they do they tell other people what they saw by word of mouth or they will post what they saw on internet blogs.
So the 500 witnesses told other people that Christ rose from the dead and saw Him with their eyes by word of mouth, so are going to ask the millions of people who saw 9/11 and where traveling that you need proof to what they saw?
Jesus told his followers that He will be back and what did they do? They wrote his words down. They could not take a picture nor post it on the internet and yes it is in the bible.
Yea you are right that many non believing people believed that the world was flat but if they would have read Isaiah chapter 40:22 it says He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth they would have known that it was not true and the world was round but once again your standard Just because a large number of people believe something does not make it true.
So millions saw 9/11 when planes hit the two towers so according to you that does not make it true or fact as you say
Millions did not see the event. And no, that does not make it fact. The fact is the video evidence, the rubble, the studies done that prove what occurred, the flight recordings of the terrorists, the security footage of them at the respective airports, etc.
The word of FIVE people who may or may not have existed wrote down what OTHER PEOPLE had claimed to have seen 75 years prior. If that was the only evidence of 9/11 then NO, I would not believe it occurred.
Sometimes, the sheer volume of a claim makes something a plausibility. In this case, you have not a million witnesses, but zero.
So the 500 witnesses told other people that Christ rose from the dead
Where are their each individual testimonies and explanations of what they saw. To claim that 500 people saw it you would have to have 500 sources. You have ONE source that pretends like it represents 500 people who may or may not have existed.
the circle of the earth
If the earth were a circle, it would still be flat.
For the last time, the bible is full of fantastical tales, historical fallacies, plain lies, and unsupported assertions. It is not fact.
And you have yet to even mention my countless analogies that explain how writing something down does not make it fact.
Just because a large number of people believe something does not make it true
How is this statement not true? I find this a good summary of what is called the "argumentum ad populum" fallacy, something that is known to anyone who has either learned how to debate or opened a book on epistemology. Fallacies are not used to make a positive argument. They are used only to show that an argument is illogical and irrational to believe.
The Bible is evidence. Matthew,Mark,Luke and John saw Jesus and wrote it down.
This is a textbook example of a circular argument, a basic fallacy. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were four of the authors of the Bible. How can this prove that the Bible is evidence? If you are already assuming their word to be true to prove that the Bible is evidence, you're simply begging the question! And this is a fallacy which permeates your whole argument!
You didn't read what I posted I said you WILL see Him when He is coming back down on this earth.
Where is your evidence? Even if I were to accept that the Bible is evidence (I do not accept this claim and you have not proven this to be true anyway), then I simply don't see how you have proved your claim from the Bible. What you have written is simply a shoddy reply to a serious question.
But it will be already to late for you to believe.
Where is the proof of your claim here? Are you now assuming that you know what your imaginary friend is supposed to think in the future?
You got to realize that when Jesus was alive there was no camera's,phones,internet, and the stuff we have today when Jesus was alive. The only thing they had was a word of mouth or they wrote it down. So Matthew,Mark, Luke, and John saw what Jesus was doing so they wrote it down. But they wrote in different styles but they all believed in the same thing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and He rose from the grave.
I think everyone realizes there were no cameras in Jesus's lifetime. That's not a pass to assume sources from this time are truthful. It's a reason to be even more skeptical.
Some parts of the Bible are independently evidenced, either because archaeological sites or separate written accounts coincide with them. But for some parts, there exists no information outside the Bible. Whenever you only have a single account for something, especially a supernatural event, you should always be skeptical. I'm sure you comprehend that many people doubt the truthfulness of the Bible, so it can't be hard to understand that quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is not particularly effective.
You got to realize that when Jesus was alive there was no camera's,phones,internet, and the stuff we have today when Jesus was alive. The only thing they had was a word of mouth or they wrote it down.
I don't care. "But they couldn't do this... And they couldn't do that.." It doesn't matter. The fact remains, the bible is not evidence. The lack of cell phones does not make up for the fact that nothing supports the bible's claims.
So Matthew,Mark, Luke, and John saw what Jesus was doing so they wrote it down.
You realize that Jesus died long before Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were born...
That leaves you with ZERO witnesses (nice reduction fro the 505 witnesses you claimed).
they wrote in different styles
Different styles don't result in contradictions.
But they wrote in different styles but they all believed in the same thing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and He rose from the grave.
What they believed is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is what can be factually proven. And there should be a comma after "sins."
You got to realize that when Jesus was alive there was no camera's,phones,internet, and the stuff we have today when Jesus was alive.
First, I do realise that (assuming that Jesus was even alive of course) because I am not dim (unlike you, which I will prove). Second, you are assuming that the only kinds of evidence worth looking at, other than "word of mouth" or written records, are from "camera's [sic] ,phones,internet, and the stuff we have today"" (and by the way, "the stuff we have today" is an utterly ambiguous statement and therefore, you're committing the logical fallacy of making hasty generalisations).
So Matthew,Mark, Luke, and John saw what Jesus was doing so they wrote it down.
Even if I were to accept that this is true (which I do not), there is not a shred of evidence outside of the Bible to prove that they existed. Where are your other sources? Where is the evidence that the Bible even is true? And to answer this question, you would have to go outside of the Bible completely because if you don't do so, your argument would only be a circular one and you'll be merely question begging at best.
But they wrote in different styles but they all believed in the same thing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and He rose from the grave.
Here, I have to raise a basic epistemological problem. Did they "believe" or did they know? This is raises a basic difference between knowledge and belief. By saying that someone believes in something, it is a little more than a non-statement. For example, one could say that they believe in, for instance, unicorns or leprechauns. Does this mean that unicorns or leprechauns necessarily exist? I contend not. Note that I am not making a judgement either way here. I am merely saying that such a statement does not allow anyone to even make a logical judgement at all.
By the way, you have misquoted me. What I said was, "How can this prove that the Bible is evidence?" And not, "How can you prove that the Bible is evidence?"
So, your whole unlettered rebuttal is just a shoddy straw man argument.
Holy crap you're clueless. Not even the religious argue matthew mark luke and john were alive at the time. Mark was the first along with another version, neither were written until 200 to 300 AD, mathew luke and john plagerized mark and this other source some time later. Not a word about jesus was written down unti well, well after anyone alive at the time' along w/ their kids and grand kids, were dead. There is a very good chance the person jesus never existed, even ignoring the whole god raping virgins and not paying child support fairytale
You can't say that the bible isn't evidence. Your arguement does make sense but it is not entirely true.
Yes, anybody can write anything down. However, that doesn't mean that when something is written down, it is automatically not true.
If you read my other arguement (i only made two which includes this), my arguement that support factual evidence in the bible is noah's ark. To save your time if you want it to be saved, there is old news that they found remains of wood on top on Mount Ararat in Turkey.
In my closing arguement to you:
The truth lies everywhere and anywhere. Under a rock or on paper.
there will be birth pains meaning there will be earthquakes in various lands and also there would be nations rise against nations and everyone will be against Israel and there will be more natural disasters. Also if Jesus already came then all the Christians should have been raptured and into heaven already while all the nonbelivers,atheist,agnostics and people who didn't believe will be left behind for 7 years and that will be the Tribulation where the antichrist will come and do horrible things in that time like the mark of the beast if you accept it your doomed to hell if you accecpt the mark of the beast.
NOOOOO! Jesus Christ has NOT already had his Second Coming! The Bible itself talks about his resurrection and his Second Coming as SEPARATE THINGS!!! He will come again. My whole religion is centered around Him coming again, and I believe He will.
The quote that refers to what modern day Christians call the "Second Coming", doesn't mention a numerical order to his coming back. It does however mention the circumstances.
So them calling it the "Second Calling" is false, but people believing that it already happened are also false.
Why complicate things. It was the resurrection that happened ages back. And he is suppose to make his exclusive come back again which is saved for the end of the World. So basically... What I'm trying to say is that second coming isn't really the number wise second, it really refers to his return.
I may sound like I have zero idea of what I'm saying but all I want to say is that there is no point complicating things.
Stop. Just Stop. You can't say that the bible is NOT evidence because....what if it is? "If" being the key word. Now im not saying that it is evidence. The bible may hold the complete truth, the complete fake, or a mix. And if you say that the bible isn't proof, prove it. You can't prove that it isn't evidence. And if you can't, then don't say it.
Yes, you can't write things on papers. The three headed elephants killed lots of people....for example. I can write that down and pay other people to write that down to give that story a higher probability of truth. What im sayiing is....Mark, John and the other two authors in the bible recorded their story about Jesus. What is surprising that they are similiar. (I think im right. They are not exactly the same but they hold similiarity). Because of this similiarity, it increases the probability that maybe Jesus is real. But then again, maybe those four people wrote down some fake news to arouse the public. But this alone doesn't mean you can call the bible NOT evidence. Why? Because all evidence, recorded or not, CAN be a lie.
Now here is my evidence that brings truth to the bible: Noah's ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey. Here is the link:
Now this link could be either truth or false. Supposely the wood found on Mount Ararat could be a hoax, or some civilization. Tho, the theory of a civilization is ruled out. And carbon dating gives evidence that the peice of wood dates back to Noah's Ark. If this is true and God ONLY knows for himself, therefore the bible does hold some truth.
And the only 100 percent truth out there is perceptional truth. And if you seek truth from other people, you will get close to 99.9 percent of the truth. For example, i go to college. It is 100 percent truth for me because it is my perceptional truth. But is it 100 percent truth to you? No. It is 99.9 percent truth because i could be lying to you. Sigh. :)
Now my answer to the debate. I don't think that is what the "second coming" meant. Although he was brought back to life by God, he wasn't put back on earth. I think once he roams the earth again for a period of time, that is what i believe is his second coming.
No Jesus didn't ome back to Earth then. After he died he went to Hell and defeated the devil and then stopped in Earth to show people that he truly did rise from the grave and from there went on to Heaven. Jesus' second coming is when he will come back down from Heaven.