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22
18
Yes No
Debate Score:40
Arguments:42
Total Votes:40
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 Yes (17)
 
 No (16)

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Srom(12207) pic



Did humans evolve from apes?

Yes

Side Score: 22
VS.

No

Side Score: 18

Humans didn't evolve from modern day apes, but we do share a common ancestor with them. Here's a very rudimentary phylogenetic tree showing some of the branches of primate evolution. A complete phylogenetic tree would have many more branches. Below is just a few of the many pieces of evidence showing that humans share a common ancestor with other primates.

HUMAN CHROMOSOME 2

All great apes except humans have 24 pairs of chromosomes. Humans have only 23 pairs of chromosomes. This would typically indicate that the species are not related. However, sometimes two chromosomes can fuse together into one. Now that scientists have been able to map out the genomes of humans and other great apes they were able to look to see if there was a fused chromosome in humans that matched two chromosomes in other great apes. If they didn't find it, then that would prove that humans do not share a common ancestor with the great apes. If they did find it, then it would be yet another piece of evidence proving that humans share a common ancestor with other great apes. In 1982 they found the fused chromosome, and it matches up beautifully with those of other great apes. Here is a video that explains it in more detail.

ENDOGENOUS RETROVIRUSES

An endogenous retrovirus (ERV) is a virus that inserts itself into the DNA of germ line cell (sperm or egg). Since it has altered the DNA of a germ line cell it will be passed down to future generations of the animal that it infected. Here is a simple analogy to explain it. Think of a retrovirus as a sentence. Think of DNA as a book. The retrovirus inserts itself (the sentence) into the DNA (the book) under the chapter titled "Reproduction." So, now the book has an extra sentence in it. When the animal reproduces (makes a copy of the book) it will have the extra sentence in it.

Throughout history lots of different species have been infected with retroviruses. I we look at the ERVs in the DNA of these different species we can see a clear pattern of one species inheriting the same retroviruses as the species they evolved from. The ERV is located in the same location of their DNA sequence as their ancestor. Let's go back to the book analogy for a second. If we look at the book titled "Chimpanzees" we can see that there is a sentence in red text on page 118 that says "I'm bob, the retrovirus". Now if we look at the book called "Humans" we see that it also contains the sentence "I'm bob, the retrovirus" on the exact same page. If we continue to examine the two books we find numerous other sentences like "I'm Stacy, the retrovirus", and "I'm Kip, the retrovirus." Both books have the same sentences on the same pages, and they are all written in red text, while the rest of the text in the book is black. If Chimpanzees and Humans were not related, the chances of them having the same ERVs in the same positions are astronomically small. The odds of just 5 matching ERVs are 1 in 2,025,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, but we have more than a dozen.

Scientists have examined the ERVs in numerous other species the results form a phylogenetic tree that closely matches the the other phylogenetic trees that scientists have created based on the fossil records, DNA analysis, hemoglobin analysis, protein sequencing, and chromosome structure. There is no way all of these trees could match up just by coincidence. Here is a video that explains how a phylogenetic tree is created based on ERVs if you're interested. This page shows how all the phylogenetic trees match up.

CRITIQUES

There are some arguments against ERV, and I think it is only fair to include them. I've also included explanations as to why those arguments are not valid.

Arguments against ERVs

Rebuttals to the arguments against ERVs (scroll down to the posting by WinAce)

SOURCES

Retroviruses targeting germ line cells

Demystified...Human Endogenous Retroviruses:

Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences

Demographic Histories of ERV-K in Humans, Chimpanzees and Rhesus Monkeys

Phoenix Rising - Scientists Resuscitate A 5 Million-Year-Old Retrovirus

Side: Yes
2 points

Very interesting. Again though this is still saying that we didn't evolve from apes. It is more along the lines of "retrovirus is what propagates evolution" or at least higher forms of it in complex organisms.

Side: Yes
LittleMisfit(1745) Clarified
1 point

Yes, I suppose if we keep to the exact wording of the debate title, then this probably should have been on the other side of the debate. I went more with what I though was the actual intent of the debate than the exact wording. I assumed he was more interested in knowing if humans and apes are related, but that may be an incorrect assumption.

Side: Yes
LittleMisfit(1745) Clarified
1 point

Here's a photo comparing a human skeleton to other primate skeletons. The differences are very minor.

Side: Yes
1 point

It is worth adding Cytochrome C.

CytC is a protein conserved in all species, with the protein being identical in everything from yeast to humans.

The way DNA maps to protein means that a particular combination of 3 base pairs corresponds to 1 amino acid in a protein. However, there are more than 1 combination of three base pairs that give the same amino acid, meaning that there is more than one sequence of DNA that can yield an identical protein.

This means random mutations over time can add changes into the cytochrome C gene and not modify the protein that it produces at all.

Cytochrome C genes in many species have been analysed, with the comparative differences of the cytc gene matching exactly the prediction of common descent.

This is not a trivial correlation, with the number of possible combinations and arrangements of the cyt c gene being in the order of 10^38.

But to clarify, as well as having massive incontrovertible evidence of common descent, including this, the phylogenic tree, the innumerable transitional form that shows the progressive evolution of hominids, DNA analysis, and the stuff above; it is clear that not only did we evolve from apes, we are still apes.

There is no objective way to classify or group different species of ape in a way that excludes humans.

Side: Yes

The theory that we evolved from chimps has huge amounts of evidence.

Side: Yes
link6065(741) Disputed
1 point

lol except for the fact we still have apes. .

Side: No
Ramshutu(226) Disputed
2 points

Americans are descended from Europeans, yet there are still Europeans.

Side: Yes
1 point

We still have crocodiles, what's your point?

Side: Yes
1 point

I can't respond if I am blocked. Thank you for being nice though. :)

Side: No
allrlignsfak(2) Disputed
1 point

just because a new species evolved, doesn't mean the species it evolved from disappeared, extinction only happens when a species cant survive any longer due to supply shortage and climate change. chimps, gorillas, orangutans and gibbons are fine in the jungle, the theory of our evolution is a chimp human common ancestor species was forced out of the jungle in search for food, and according to biology the need to survive will spark evolution (passing genes down that make the offspring slightly better suitable for a certain lifestyle, changes to species in different parts of the earth will cause species to branch off to many different species and in our case, complex hunting branched us off from other apes as did living in the Savannah, ocean interaction which causes hair loss and upright evolution, being were not built for hunting like wolves or lions, but we had hands and medium sized brains.) and sometimes extinction, i'm not trying to dis Christianity or anything, but even a christian can agree not all of the bible is true, and we evolved from apes, look at our bone structure, skulls, behavior, DNA etc., its all pretty similar.

Side: Yes
Doherty95(299) Disputed
1 point

What theory says that because evolution doesn't say humans evolved form chimps. It says we share a common ancestor, which lived around 7 million years ago. If it was still around it would be called an ape, but it was not a chimpanzee.

Side: No

Humans ARE apes....and not the first species thereof .

Side: Yes

I've noticed that some humans even have the same brow as apes do, so there is obviously a correlation.

Side: Yes
2 points

Humans did not evolve from apes. Humans and apes, evolved from a common ancestor. Much like how modern birds evolved from dinosaurs of old, no dinosaurs exist. If humans evolved from apes, no apes would exist.

Same with the wooly mammoth and the elephant. Elephants lived because wooly mammoths died.

Side: No
EmoKillMeNow(143) Clarified
1 point

since you are a black dude I have to let you know that black people were the first humans to evolve from apes according to the leading theory of evolution. The rest of humanity, other than Inuits, Eskimos, oriental Asian and Red-Indian races, evolved from you apparently

Side: Yes
warrior(1854) Disputed
2 points

Well I should point out that its not possible to know the skin color of the first humans I mean yes we know humans evolved in Africa but what isn't known how ever is if humans evolved as black people or if the black skin color was a latter adaptation by those who remained in that area. I bring this up because under the fur of most apes their skin is actually white due to lack of exposure to the sun and humans were apes that learned to walk up right then began to gradually lose the fur leavening the pale unadapted skin underneath given the slow multi generational pace of genealogical adaptation it is theorized that the first humans were very pale and that the black skin of modern Africans was a latter adaptation. That being said however race is more than skin color it's genes and when you look at the physiological characteristics of Africans they do share more common physical traits with homo erects. Than say Caucasians which more closely resemble Cro Magnons. This dose support the theory that the first modern humans evolved in Africa.

Side: No
Quocalimar(6469) Clarified
1 point

Yes you speak of the aboriginals. Humanity started in Africa.

Side: Yes

so in other words Q is an obsolete model of a human being. Beta version of Caucasian :D

Side: No
allrlignsfak(2) Disputed
1 point

your pretty dumb, modern day whites, africans, asians etc. share a common ancestor with neandertals, and the common ancestor is white, its name is homo heidlbergensis. theres more than one human spieces, incase you didnt know.

Side: Yes

I think we evolved as an ape, form the ancestor of apes and competed with Chimpanzees and Bonobos in our own way.

Side: No

I don't think they did! I am a creation-tard if you may....

My resoning can be found in Genisis I, thank you.

Side: No
1 point

No. They came from a common ancestor of apes down the line. There is no theory that says we evolved from apes, that is a common misconception. We did not evolve from a ancestor of the apes.

Side: No

Evolution is just a scientific theory that teaches that man evolved from several species of animals and not only applies.

Side: No