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Debate Info

5
7
Hate all corporations Only hate the evil ones
Debate Score:12
Arguments:11
Total Votes:12
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 Hate all corporations (5)
 
 Only hate the evil ones (6)

Debate Creator

sierrastruth(524) pic



Do liberals hate all corporations or just the ones they dont agree with?

Sometimes I think (most) Liberals think that only oil companies, banks (credit card companies) and pestiside companies are corporations. Are these companies evil too?

Pacific Natual foods

Apple computer

Costco Wholesale

REI

American Apparel

Sierra club

AARP

Cafe Yumm

PBS

NPR

 

 

Hate all corporations

Side Score: 5
VS.

Only hate the evil ones

Side Score: 7

I wouldn't say 'hate' all corporations, but dislike them. It doesn't matter if you try your hardest to be ethical as a corporation, because the only really ethical business is a small one. Every large corporation had to destroy people's lives to get there. There is no way around it. Maybe once they acquired the power, they had the leeway to stop hurting people, but they still had to destroy lives to get where they are.

Which once again makes me ask: why not just stay a small business? The journey to becoming a powerful corporation is stained in the tears of others. If these businesses we're really filled with truly good people, why wouldn't they sacrifice themselves to the risk of being a small business that gets bought out, when they instead just sacrifice others so they can have more power and money to ultimately do nothing but line their pockets?

Don't be fooled by corporate propaganda. It doesn't matter what they do now to look good, because to be a corporation is to be apart of a process that damaged a lot of people. Them doing good deeds after the fact of gaining power should just be mandatory recompense to the world they damaged, and seen as such, not as acts of random kindness or moral greatness.

So while I cannot say I hate all corporations, I think it's completely asinine to believe that any of them are completely and utterly good, because the nature of being a corporation requires that they have been at least moderately evil to get where they are in the market.

Side: Hate all corporations
1 point

"why not just stay a small business"

http://sbinformation.about.com/cs/ownership1/a/corporation.htm

"because to be a corporation is to be apart of a process that damaged a lot of people."

Please explain this, how dose the process of becoming and being a corporation automatically damage people?

"the nature of being a corporation requires that they have been at least moderately evil to get where they are in the market."

What?! why?! Because they sell percentages of their company (stocks) in order to make extra money to grow the company?

Side: Only hate the evil ones
chatturgha(1631) Disputed
1 point

http://sbinformation.about.com/cs/ownership1/a/corporation.htm

Then why not just stay a small corporation?

You see, now you're just arguing terminology. When I said the words I said, I think it was pretty clear I meant 'big business' when I said corporation, and 'small business' when I said... small business. The legal differences in terminology between 'corporation' and 'small business' aren't an argument when you know I wasn't using the words in the way they are used in the law.

Unless you didn't know I was using them differently then how they are used by the law, in which case, I apologize.

Please explain this, how dose the process of becoming and being a corporation automatically damage people?

Money does not come from nowhere. When you take money, you take it from a source, a source which starts with another person.

To grow as a corporation you need to take financial risks that involve taking money from sources and using it to either 1. gain more resources to make your company bigger, or 2. line your pockets. Either way, you are taking risks that take money from other people.

I'll make it simple: when you take enough money for yourself that is enough to feed a family for a year, you are effectively taking away money from someone that would feed them. It's likely never a specific group of people, or even people with not enough money to eat, but you're still taking away money from the market that could go towards making other people's lives better. If you line your pockets with this money, you are evil. If you use it to make your company bigger, you're not as directly evil, because more money into your company is likely to give more people jobs, but still ultimately evil since this is just a guise for you to justify making your company bigger so you can get more money for yourself.

And this is not to mention that making money to feed a family for a year is relatively easy the larger your company is. So once your company reaches a relatively large size, you could be taking money for yourself from a pool that could feed a family for 10 years. Once you start taking that much money for yourself or your company, you actually ARE directly damaging people's lives.

Another thing to point out is that you have to be evil to combat evil in the market. When a rival company sees your company growing greater, and tries to ruthlessly crush you, what do you do? Ruthlessly fight back, or give in? The only way to counter ruthlessness in the market is to be equally ruthless, which will, no matter what, damage the lives of your employees.

And saying everything I just said, that's under the presumption that the company owner is trying to be both moral but also have their company grow and survive. When a company owner is just trying to have their company grow and survive, they will commit other acts of damage such as replacing employees over minor mistakes, making example of employees for no justification other then giving others anxiety to make less mistakes, filing petty lawsuits and winning because you are richer, destroying or absorbing small businesses to make sure they never become a rival, etc. All of these things damage people's lives, but these strategies are required to become a powerful corporation.

Meaning, that every relatively large corporation out there is at least moderately evil. The very act of being a relatively large corporation means that you have had to commit immoral acts in the market just to survive.

And this is without me yet making this point: there is no reason to expand a company other then to be greedy. There is literally no reason other then that. The whole modern market could be governed by small corporations and small businesses, not product oligarchies. Neither small businesses or corporations need to be ruthless, because without the incentive to have more money and power that they don't need, they can all just work together.

But no. Company owners want more money and power for themselves, so they make their corporations huge so they can be dictators of their own financial nations. That is the only point. It doesn't matter what justification you have to try and say that you didn't start a huge corporation to be rich and powerful, because if you really didn't start a huge company to be rich and powerful, then you wouldn't have made the company huge in the first place because there is no benefit from it being huge other then you gaining more money and power.

What?! why?! Because they sell percentages of their company (stocks) in order to make extra money to grow the company?

See above.

Side: Hate all corporations

American Apparel is pure evil, damn hipsters ...

Side: Hate all corporations
2 points

There's a difference between hating something and wanting it to the government to step in and take care of it.

This is a flaw on both the right and the left. People on the left generaly want heavy economic regulation. People on the right want certain things illegal because of morality reasons.

They both want the government where it doesn't belong. Don't get me wrong some regulation is needed. But we're not doing it right. One could argue that heavy regulation is good for the economy and theoretically it really could be. But like I said we're not doing it right and we haven't been doing it right since the 40s. Why should the size of my soft drink be limited in some states? Yet credit card companies are getting even worse!

Not to mention with the state we are in at the moment our only good option is to cut taxes AND spending. Not just taxes republicans often make that mistake.

The democratic party used to have class. But it's as if they let the success of the new deal go to their heads. They found out that if things are bad, they can say "hey look you need us!".

So why not let things get bad?

People are not going to die in the streets with a smaller government. People used to help each other. People used to be self dependant and grow food in their yard when they were poor. Some even had the pride to reject government help.

Liberals hate when conservatives talk about "old America" and yes we've come a long way and there was a lot wrong with this country in those days but let us not forget the good things we used to value.

So blaming the private sector is just a small part of the problem we have here.

Side: Only hate the evil ones

I don't necessarily hate corporations, just the way they conduct themselves. I don't like the idea of one big corporation monopolising everything, which I think is what would happen if we lived in a pure libertarian society. Hence why I believe in a somewhat controlled economy.

Also, I think you are using liberal purely in the American sense meaning all lefties.

Side: Only hate the evil ones

Liberals hate the corporations that discriminate and don't give their employees a decent wage.

Side: Only hate the evil ones