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Debate Info

8
9
No, Jesus is all powerful. Jesus is weak and wicked.
Debate Score:17
Arguments:13
Total Votes:17
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Argument Ratio

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 No, Jesus is all powerful. (8)
 
 Jesus is weak and wicked. (5)

Debate Creator

Emperor(1348) pic



Does Christianity require belief?

Many Christians claim that non-believers go to hell.

 

However, that would indicate that Jesus is either too weak, lacking enough power to save all mankind, or that Jesus is wicked, allowing people to suffer eternally for simply not believing in an unrealistic myth.

 

But there appears to be a massive and completely undiscussed loop hole.

 

If Jesus sacrificed himself for mankind, then mankind should be saved with or without belief. I am not a Bible expert, but if Jesus or God do have any sort of power, then should not the blood sacrifice work for all of mankind, giving all of "wicked" and "corrupted" mankind instant salvation, with or without belief?

 

This is under the pretense that at least some of the supernatural parts of the Bible are true.

No, Jesus is all powerful.

Side Score: 8
VS.

Jesus is weak and wicked.

Side Score: 9
1 point

You are a bit mistaken in your premise. Just because not everyone goes to heaven and that some people go to hell does not mean God is wicked. It may be your perception of what is wicked but it is anything but wicked in reality.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.
Emperor(1348) Disputed
2 points

No, it wouldn't be as wicked at all if God sent good, average people to heaven, and only the most corrupted murderers and thieves to hell, but instead, he only lets those in his cult into heaven.

That IS corrupted.

If you think that isn't corrupt and evil, then we simply have very different morals.

However, the point of my debate was that Jesus dying on the cross "for us" is not "for Christians and those that believe", but rather "died for all of mankind, including non-believers".

Side: Jesus is weak and wicked.
1 point

it is not that God or Jesus is wicked or weak, it is that mankind has been wicked throughout time. Plus we have evolved a lot since then and we are a lot worst.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.

If god does exist and he is all powerful, all knowing, and all good, then that means god would also be logical (you can't have knowledge or understand everything without logic), capable (you can't be all-powerful if you are not capable of everything), and the interest to (being all good you would be interested in doing only what is logically good for people) not to send people to a plane of infinite pain for infinite amount of time for simply not being convinced he exists especially when he has not given anyone evidence that can be shared with others of his existence, that's arguably what a logical, capable, good god would do. Perhaps some christian's and others of other denominations are going to say that because he is god he does deserve something that would usually be much to ask of people, but if this is what other theists are thinking, then they should look at it this way for a moment: How do we know that it is actually god telling us we have to believe in him, or just a book man made who had no idea whatsoever what god really wanted (assuming god exists)? A threat that is attached to a claim means nothing if the claim itself is not credible, and a logical god would understand that, a capable, logical, good god would not send people to hell for not being convinced by the only thing claiming his/her/it's existence is something we have no idea was really made by him/her/it or in his words or of his/her/it's actual opinion.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.
Emperor(1348) Disputed
1 point

So shouldn't you support the other side? If this god IS logical, and DOES send all people to heaven no matter what they believe, then it is not longer a wicked, evil god. Even though it is still illogical to think this god is real, under this pretense, god is no longer a monster to damns people for harmless thoughts, but is now a kind god that lets all people into heaven no matter what.

If that god existed, of course.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.
zephyr20x6(2386) Disputed
1 point

So shouldn't you support the other side? If this god IS logical, and DOES send all people to heaven no matter what they believe, then it is not longer a wicked, evil god. Even though it is still illogical to think this god is real, under this pretense, god is no longer a monster to damns people for harmless thoughts, but is now a kind god that lets all people into heaven no matter what.

If that god existed, of course.

you have a very good point, I sometime's don't pay attention what different sides mean if i don't completely agree with either of them, I don't believe jesus is all powerful, god supposedly was, but jesus wasn't, though I do think Jesus was an amazing guy who had a lot of good ideas about how people should treat each other and lead a good life by example, but god being wicked and weak depends on what god we are talking about here, certain interpretations of god are, some aren't. but christian's believe jesus was another form of god and also god's son so it didn't matter much to me, but i shall switch my sides since I'd rather argue for Jesus's integrity rather than go against it.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.

I don't believe in Hell. Hell exists only in horror films. Everyone goes to Heaven.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.
3 points

Of course God is wicked! If i magically created a world full of my own species which i designed, I wouldn't sentence half of them to eternal damnation just because they didn't praise me enough..! Anyway, this is about Jesus. And yes he was 'wicked' he could have ended slavery, racism, world hunger e.t.c. But nope, he just decided to let a chosen few have their eye sight back and throw some starfish back in to the sea..!

Side: Jesus is weak and wicked.
2 points

Nono, what I am getting at is the opposite. That God and Jesus, if they existed, are NOT wicked, because despite what is commonly believed, Jesus would have allowed all people into heaven.

The crucifixion was a sacrifice for all people, not just Christians.

That means atheists, gays, hindus, pagans and all people automatically go to heaven, simply for being born after Jesus had died.

Side: Jesus is weak and wicked.
zephyr20x6(2386) Disputed
1 point

That God and Jesus, if they existed, are NOT wicked, because despite what is commonly believed, Jesus would have allowed all people into heaven.

so shouldn't you be on the other side as well, mine isn't changing but whatever, doesn't matter to me, it is what is being said and how people take that in that matters to me.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.
timber113(796) Disputed
1 point

The crucifixion was a sacrifice for all people, not just Christians.

Mackindale553

Although the cucifixion was for all men man needs to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour to truly be saved. Read John 3:16. It says whosoever believes in Him will get everlasting life. SO in other words if you don't believe the latter will happen, you will perish. John 14:6 says that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Acts 16:31 says believe on the Lord and you will be saved. SO being saved requires belief in Christianity, so Hindus, atheists, gays and pagans unless they take a complete 180 and turn to Jesus Christ according to the Bible. Furthermore if Jesus dying for sins meant going to heaven then he would not tell us to to preach the Gospel because it would not be required, everybody would get to heaven.

Side: No, Jesus is all powerful.
1 point

Ah, alright.

I mean, I know there are one or two verses supporting that, but I also know some Christians throw out the entire Old Testament, so it really is a bit confusing. I mean, picking and choosing, and whatnot.

The more you think about it, the more silly it becomes, I guess.

Side: Jesus is weak and wicked.

Honestly, I don't think that most people --even those who call themselves Christians--- actually believe in Jesus. I think it's just more of a cultural tradition, something you sign up for (like auto insurance) just in case. I think most Christians actually have a good number of doubts about Jesus as their personal savior.

Side: Jesus is weak and wicked.