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Debate Info

1023
976
Theism Atheism
Debate Score:1999
Arguments:1009
Total Votes:2514
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 Theism (457)
 
 Atheism (475)

Debate Creator

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Does God exist?

Arguments for and against God's existence.  I'd like the negative position to take on an equal burden of proof and provide arguments against God's existence, e.g. the problem of suffering, divine hiddenness, etc.

Theism

Side Score: 1023
VS.

Atheism

Side Score: 976
18 points

An Intelligent Designer seems incredibly possible since our universe is so fine tuned and the laws of thermodynamics can be applied in a sense that supports the existence of a much larger eternal being.

Side: Theism
BenWalters(1513) Disputed
14 points

Just to confirm, you are arguing that because the universe is so great, it must have been created?

In that case, could you please explain the pain and suffering and sadness that humans go through every day? The struggle for life and wellness and recreation that every single living organism must go through their entire life? The simple fact that life needs certain things to survive, the imperfect nature of that fact, that God could create life that does not need the universe to be as it is to survive?

Life has adapted to its surroundings, giving the impression that our surroundings are perfect for life. Do you really think that things could not be better? That things are truly perfect? That our existence is nothing more than a minuscule probability, caused to be likely due to the simple immeasurable vastness and magnitude of space and existence?

There are many arguments which support an intelligent designer. But there are many more which do not. You should not ignore either side.

Side: Atheism
Qua-(13) Disputed
6 points

God didn't make the world so it can be perfect- or else we would all be robots. We all have our ups and downs for a reason. If bad things didn't happen to us, then we couldn't fully appreciate the bad things in life. Then we would just be living a world of boring monotony. What kind of life would that be living? That's not a life! The world is colorful and that's what makes us all so fun to be around. If God made life perfect, then what would be the point of life?

Nathaniel Hawthorne had a Puritan upbringing but unconverted because he did not like some aspects that his ex-religion had developed into. However, you can see themes of the effects of reaching enlightenment or perfection in several of his works. Basically what his message is saying is that once we achieve this level of perfection, there is no need for us to be living anymore. In this sense, God has put thought into carefully making such an array of beings- the vast amount of things and stuff he has created.

Side: Theism
RightWing11(40) Disputed
5 points

I'll explain the sadness and suffering: sin. Yes, it is that simple. Sin. God created a perfect world where men and women (at the time just Adam and Eve) could live with God in paradise. However, Adam and Eve disobeyed his only command and sin entered the world. Sin caused pain, suffering, sickness and tears. The world WOULD be perfect if it wasn't for the sin of us humans.

Side: Theism

That isnt my argument.

Side: Atheism

The thing is that on a universal scale these things are considered to be miniscule. Things happen to planets that we are glad dont happen to us. I know earth life isnt perfect but if it was what would it even look like?

Side: Atheism
2 points

Yes yes*

Side: Theism
8 points

This is a very good point. Many scientists agree with this.

Side: Theism
10 points

Thanks. That means a lot to me.

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
6 points

Who exactly please name some and list list their works. I'm very interested :D

Side: Atheism
Leo_Boccacio(8) Clarified
6 points

Please cite your sources. Scientists is also a slightly vague term. Do you consider a theologian a scientist?

Side: Theism
5 points

I don't think so. The scientific community has outright rejected the whole intelligent design idea.

Side: Atheism
Jace(5222) Disputed
4 points

Many scientists may be theists but this does not mean the believe there is irrefutable and incontrovertible proof of a god or gods. Moreover, very few scientists actually specialize in areas that would give them any authority on the matter of deistic probability.

Side: Atheism
meer(47) Disputed
1 point

really? because i am pretty sure non of them do...............................

Side: Atheism
blacklab2287(34) Disputed
1 point

Many scientists agree that there is a diety? Please define the term many. How about a percentage? I'll hinder to your point if you can find a scientist that wasn't raised in a faith based household that "converted".

Side: Atheism
Rakz123(13) Disputed
1 point

at many sum of them they argee with this point becoz thousand magical things which is happening in world

Side: Atheism
1 point

Yes yes*

Side: Atheism
1 point

Yes yes*

Side: Atheism
8 points

I'm a Christian and I'm totally against this argument. I believe in the God that I KNOW exists, not that possibly exists!

Side: Theism
3 points

That you KNOWexists? That contradicts your religion. God is a faith based God. He does not make himself know because through faith he is pleased. You cannot 100% truly know and God set it up that way. If you say you "KNOW" he exists you are contradicting the point of the faith.

Side: Atheism
Bunny(7) Disputed
-1 points

Can you prove he exists??? Is there any evidence???

NO!!! So what makes you think god exists????

Side: Atheism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
3 points

thermodynamics can be applied in a sense that supports the existence of a much larger eternal being.

ehm?

Side: Atheism
11 points

Matter cannpt be created or destroyed so something must have created it. Thats it.

Side: Theism
Name(18) Disputed
2 points

Much of the energy is randomly lost with death. We cannot find a logical place for it to have gone. Also, the soul must go somewhere as it cannot have but dissapeared due to the laws of Thermodynamics.

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
3 points

An Intelligent Designer seems incredibly possible since our universe is so fine tuned

What makes you believe that universe is fine tuned?

There are certain physical laws according which energy and matter are interacting with each others, and the rest is just a consequence of those laws. What is so fine tuned about the universe?

Is it really fine tuned that Sun will one they get cold and all life on Earth will die? Or is it fine tuned that we can get struck by an asteroid any time possible? Do you think it is fine tuned to have a myriad of different religions which possibly violently conflict with each other? Or do you believe that fine tuning is when people die in agony of cancer, Ebola, aids or murderous knife? Which part of the misery you believe is fine tuned?

If your God is such a wonderful creator, why didn't he get back after 2000 years and told humans what to do as he used to? After all he terminated Sodom and Gomorrah because humans there got bad. He also killed everybody but Noah since he wasn't really satisfied how people become. Do you really try to tell that our world is such fine tuned that God is really happy with people of today, where big parts of the planet are in constant war and hatred, where millions are dying of hunger and thirst, lack of basic hygiene and medicines, where humans are used as slaves just to produce cheap bananas and t-shirts for people in west so those can spend their time arguing about goodness of the God?

Side: Atheism
8 points

Why are you talking about the Christian God? Thats not even what I am arguing about.

Side: Theism
UpForDebate(25) Clarified
1 point

You are mainly discussing worldly issues here. They said that the universe was fine-tuned, not that the people in the world were perfect or that life is easy. You were definitely not getting the point that they were attempting to get across.

Side: Theism
Tennpenn(6) Clarified
3 points

The theory of Intelligent Design contradicts itself; How can the Intelligent Designer not have been Intelligently Designed?

Side: Theism
LizziexLaura(4278) Clarified
3 points

Simple. How do you create something that is eternal and had been eternal and will be eternal and existed during all time on an infinite scale? You cant. You cant make an eternal being. You cant make something that existed before you.

Side: Theism
nancycaroll1(3) Disputed
1 point

There are a number of philosophical arguments that allow for the existence of God. These arguments have withstood a long history of criticism and, in their current form, offer formulations that take into account this criticism and are based on the discoveries of modern science.

Side: Atheism
nooby(14) Disputed
0 points

An Intelligent Designer seems incredibly possible since our universe is so fine tuned and the laws of thermodynamics can be applied in a sense that supports the existence of a much larger eternal being.

What is your argument that fine tuned universe needs a creator? If univers was fine tuned it is still not proof that intelligent designer created it; there is no implication or equivalence between those two.

What is your proof that universe is fine tuned?

None of that you say has any logical ground; both are subjective statements of yours which you are not able to proof, nor even understand seems like.

Side: Atheism
6 points

Nobody has proof. That is the entire point of this debate which you seem to have failed in realizing.

Side: Theism
D00zy666(1) Disputed
0 points

The simulation argument is the only interesting argument for the existance of a creator, but the god that has evoled out of the DAMN bible? no way... The idea of a god has evolved throughout history and that's why the word "god" has many definitions. The god you are referring to isn't the one that came out of the bible, it's a different one, in other words it's a result of your own "self" trying to make sense of the word god itself, I just go one god further. It's a delusional state of mind, a form of mental illness...

Side: Atheism
into15(22) Disputed
0 points

We are fine-tuned to this universe. The universe is not fine-tuned to us. Evolution.

Side: Atheism
sopinionated(1) Disputed
0 points

Yes, everything is awe inspiringly fine tuned. So the Universe looks as though it has been created by a supreme intelligence? And an entity amazing enough to have done that, must itself have been created by an even greater intelligence....

Side: Atheism
King0Mir(67) Disputed
-1 points

Is the universe so fine tuned? To me, life seems poorly engineered. We have blind-spots in our eyes, because the veins in our eyes obstruct our vision. We have an appendix that serves no purpose except to occasionally become inflamed and kill us. Our reproductive system is mixed in with our body's sewer system. Our minds are easily deceived because they seem more tuned to surviving in the wild than living in our modern world. Is this how you would design a human being? Can you really say we are "intelligently" designed?

Side: Atheism
11 points

A better question is..."Is what people say about god true?". Because of course god exists, at the very least conceptually. Another better question is..."Is god a matter of serious concern to us?" to which any honest thinking person who wasn't raised to be ignorant of history must answer yes. Attempting to argue that god does not exist is as pointless as arguing about whether or not there is a universe. The question is not "does the universe exist?", it is "how can we improve our understanding of the universe?"

Side: Theism
zephyr20x6(2387) Disputed
4 points

A better question is..."Is what people say about god true?". Because of course god exists, at the very least conceptually.

The question of whether or not god exists is equally important as it directly effects the importance of understanding god better. If god only exists conceptually, then it doesn't really matter, as god could be anything you want it to be, being a concept and all.

Another better question is..."Is god a matter of serious concern to us?" to which any honest thinking person who wasn't raised to be ignorant of history must answer yes.

What exactly do you mean here? I agree with that statement but for different reasons.

Attempting to argue that god does not exist is as pointless as arguing about whether or not there is a universe.

Nobody is really arguing god doesn't exist as much as they are arguing that there is no reason to think so. If we are talking about reason to think something exists, it makes significantly more sense to argue against the idea of a god but not the universe. There is significantly more reason to acknowledge the universe exists then god.

Side: Atheism
atypican(4875) Disputed
7 points

The question of whether or not god exists is equally important as it directly effects the importance of understanding god better.

If we accept that god exists at least as a concept then we have moved beyond asking if god exists and may now logically progress to questions about god's characteristic qualities. You cannot logically discuss the qualities of something assumed to not exist.

If god only exists conceptually, then it doesn't really matter, as god could be anything you want it to be, being a concept and all.

Ideas have consequences, and thinking of god strictly as an ideological construct, this ideological construct matters alot because it affects the way us humans interact with each other. If god did not exist, god would not have major sociological implications.

What exactly do you mean here? I agree with that statement but for different reasons.

That's strikes me as odd. You agree with the statement for reasons different than what I have yet to explain to your satisfaction. ie you don't know exactly what I meant, but you know enough to know that you agree for different reasons. I'll be happy to discuss effects of god after you admit god exists. Start a new debate and invite me.

Nobody is really arguing god doesn't exist as much as they are arguing that there is no reason to think so.

If we do not first accept the premise that: "truths can be known about god", then any statement or question posed with the word god as the subject remains meaningless.

If we are talking about reason to think something exists, it makes significantly more sense to argue against the idea of a god but not the universe.

really? Why do you believe in "The Universe" instead of "The Multiverses" ?

There is significantly more reason to acknowledge the universe exists then god.'

Pantheists understand the universe as god, Do you think they believe this for "No reason"?

Side: Theism
passenger97(22) Disputed
2 points

The fact that you are so quick to say that God exists without a doubt and then criticizing people of being ignorant of history(read some darwin) is quite ironic.

Side: Atheism
LeRocky(28) Disputed
1 point

Why would you suppose that we were "quick to say that God exists without a doubt"? You do not know what went through our minds, sir.

You do not know about the journey we have been on to reach this point, sir.

So, please, try and think of the other as a person who thinks before you assume.

And keep in mind that your assuming is supposing something is the case without proof, without thinking.

Side: Theism
Name(18) Disputed
1 point

Darwin said in The Origin of Man that evolution could not have happened without God, citing the complexity of the eye as a major example of how the human body alone must have had an intelligent designer. (read some Darwin)

Side: Theism
mykebee34(119) Clarified
1 point

Honestly i get where ATYPIC is coming from. i myself do not believe in any deity. what im taking from his comments is this; people will believe whatever they choose - although there is no physical proof for any known deities it is illogical to think the beliefs of those who worship certain deities isnt proof in itself. once we acknowledge this fact we can then argue the flaws and detrimental effects of said deity.

Side: Theism
Atrag(5666) Disputed
2 points

You're playing with words. "Is what people say about God true?" is the same question as "Does God exist?". When people ask that question they're not talking about whether God exists as a concept. They're talking about whether he exists as a God: the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority.

Side: Atheism
atypican(4875) Disputed
7 points

You're playing with words.

Guilty as charged

"Is what people say about God true?" is the same question as "Does God exist?".

This is not true. There is not a universally accepted definition of god. To illustrate this, I'd pose the question to you: Does god exist as described by pantheists?

When people ask that question they're not talking about whether God exists as a concept.

This is because we can all agree that "god exists, at least as a concept". Accepting this premise is necessary to any logical discussion about god. The other premise that must be accepted is that "truths can be known about god". Without acceptance of these two premises, the term god can only be used in an illogical manner.

They're talking about whether he exists as a God: the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority.

I'm not viewing god in a manner orthodox enough for you eh?

Side: Theism
ant1greeny(5) Disputed
2 points

What has god/religion taught us about the Universe?

Without Science we would know nothing about it!

Side: Atheism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
1 point

nice off topic :D

Side: Atheism
CreateAFakeD Disputed
-1 points

"God exist" Proof please? All I see is a book that has been wrongly translated and changed within the years. Even then the whole entire book doesn't make sense. God said "Let there be light" So he somehow conjured up light and everything dealing with it? Nope, let science handle this one. Also one more thing, provide points not questions. You seem like a pasture trying to get laid by Christians. In my understanding god is supposedly our lord and if we disobey him he tortures us? Doesn't seem godlike to me. Also about your universe theory you say saying no god means there is no universe.

Not even close. Before the big bang there was no universe or time that god could have made the universe, there were no law of physics or any laws. For something to happen there must have been something earlier in time that caused that event. Asking if god made the universe is a stupid question itself. It's like asking wheres the edge of the earth. there is no possibility of a creator because there is no time for a creator to have existed. Since time itself began at the moment of the Big Bang, it was an event that could not have been caused or created by anyone or anything.

Some believe that God let the universe evolve by inserting a few laws that do not intervene with the laws in the universe. As long as the universe was created maybe we have a creator as well. If the the universe is completely self contained having no boundary or edge; would it mean there is no beginning nor ending. Don't try and put your little pea brain against this kind of mind, I am the best.

Side: Atheism
3 points

You don't get it, do you? It's hard to explain it to someone with as thick skull and arrogant mind that God isn't limited to anything, not even time.

Side: Theism
Kasilofdan(9) Disputed
3 points

My references are at the bottom. Yes GOD does exist. Scientific data has been slowly and steadily proving many biblical scriptures to be a truthful reality. For example, according to Genesis the earth is just over 6,000 years old. Science has stated the earth and the planetary bodies in our solar system are 4.53 billion years old. Either creationism or naturalistic atheist way is wrong. We can’t have both. Consider this then; Titan, one of Saturn’s many moons, is covered in kilometer thick 4.5 percent methane atmosphere along with 94 percent nitrogen and other trace elements. Scientific data has proven that solar radiation when bombarding methane changes the methane into a heavy hydrocarbon called ethane (C2H6). Since Titan has a sub zero temperature any ethane would drop to the surface and create oceans of ethane maybe miles deep. This data was published in 1980. In 2005 the Huygens Lander set down on Titan and proved something very strange. Huygens recorded that there was not much ethane on Titans surface. Being 4.5 billion years old calculations have indicated there would be no methane at all only ethane on the surface. This odd phenomenon as scientist dubbed it points to a Titan that is 5 to 8 thousand years old rather than 4.5 billion. Here science has indicated that abundant methane there is evidence for a younger Titan, while scientists insist there is some natural phenomenon to explain why the methane is still there. This young Titan falls in line with biblical scripture in Genesis. In correcting its own deficiencies and errors, science is proving the existence of GOD and the truthfulness of scripture. There is much more to consider also, such as DNA being extracted from a 450 million year old fossil. DNA has a shelf life of 50,000 years under ideal storage conditions. How then can a fossil contain DNA if it is 450 million years old? This and other questions need to be answered and science is not doing a very good job. It is time to rethink the way we do our thinking.

References:

G. Lindal et al. (1983). "The atmosphere of Titan: An analysis of the Voyager 1 radio occultation measurements". Icarus 53 (2): 348–363.

Staff (April 3, 2013). "NASA team investigates complex chemistry at Titan". Phys.Org.

Coustenis, A. (2005). "Formation and evolution of Titan’s atmosphere". Space Science Reviews 116 (1-2): 171–184

Side: Theism
Vincent_F(28) Disputed
2 points

God created our concept of "time." He is outside of time, therefore the laws of time do not apply to him. He is immutable (does not change) does not age, and does not have a beginning or an end, as those things only apply to something inside of time.

Side: Theism
7 points

I always have the same song pop into my head when this debate topic comes up. When I was a younger man and used to go to church, there was a song the church sang quite often that had the line "You ask me how I know he lives? He LIVES within my heart"

That line has since become the end all to my debates on the subject. People have a right to believe anything they want to (1st Amendment) and to the extent that God* lives in some people's hearts (and or minds)... He effectively "lives" in our world.

Side: Theism
6 points

There are so many different ways of describing the Christian/Jewish/... god, and no doubt some of them are real.

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
1 point

Tell me which ones are real then. Or do you believe there are several gods and some of them are real?

Side: Atheism
Elvira(3446) Clarified
2 points

No idea, but some believe God is simply the universe... well, that's real. Some believe he was a normal ancient teacher like Jesus, Mohammed or Buddha... possible?

Side: Theism
6 points

yes!god exist we have proof of that:

if your live in India then your will come to know that there is many supernatural ativities which prove that god exist.I am not writing this because i am theism but i saw all the things which were happening in temples,maszits and many more.

I can also give you some example to support my answer:

at jammu and kashmir katra veshnu devi mandir-A flame is coming out from the rocks since the rule of akhbar.

himachal pradesh chamba naagbintru-If you say that Philosophy that you want to see the snake king in his biggest avtar then you will see him in his bigest avtar.

there are many other example which prove that god exist.If you want to know your answer practically the n the only thing you have to do is come to india and visit to the local areas of himachal for sure.There you will see alot of examples by which you will be satisfied that god is present.

Side: Theism
6 points

My references are at the bottom. Yes GOD does exist. Scientific data has been slowly and steadily proving many biblical scriptures to be a truthful reality. For example, according to Genesis the earth is just over 6,000 years old. Science has stated the earth and the planetary bodies in our solar system are 4.53 billion years old. Either creationism or naturalistic atheist way is wrong. We can’t have both. Consider this then; Titan, one of Saturn’s many moons, is covered in kilometer thick 4.5 percent methane atmosphere along with 94 percent nitrogen and other trace elements. Scientific data has proven that solar radiation when bombarding methane changes the methane into a heavy hydrocarbon called ethane (C2H6). Since Titan has a sub zero temperature any ethane would drop to the surface and create oceans of ethane maybe miles deep. This data was published in 1980. In 2005 the Huygens Lander set down on Titan and proved something very strange. Huygens recorded that there was not much ethane on Titans surface. Being 4.5 billion years old calculations have indicated there would be no methane at all only ethane on the surface. This odd phenomenon as scientist dubbed it points to a Titan that is 5 to 8 thousand years old rather than 4.5 billion. Here science has indicated that abundant methane there is evidence for a younger Titan, while scientists insist there is some natural phenomenon to explain why the methane is still there. This young Titan falls in line with biblical scripture in Genesis. In correcting its own deficiencies and errors, science is proving the existence of GOD and the truthfulness of scripture. There is much more to consider also, such as DNA being extracted from a 450 million year old fossil. DNA has a shelf life of 50,000 years under ideal storage conditions. How then can a fossil contain DNA if it is 450 million years old? This and other questions need to be answered and science is not doing a very good job. It is time to rethink the way we do our thinking.

References:

G. Lindal et al. (1983). "The atmosphere of Titan: An analysis of the Voyager 1 radio occultation measurements". Icarus 53 (2): 348–363.

Staff (April 3, 2013). "NASA team investigates complex chemistry at Titan". Phys.Org.

Coustenis, A. (2005). "Formation and evolution of Titan’s atmosphere". Space Science Reviews 116 (1-2): 171–184

Side: Theism
xBetzy(123) Disputed
1 point

You do realize that titan may have formed much later than other planets or even moons in the solar system, and even later still acquired it's methane atmosphere even later. In regard to the Huygens Lander mission there is very little controversy now and more up to date articles on Titan can be found on NASA's website and respective links on it.

Side: Atheism
6 points

Why is this on the home page again?

Side: Theism
5 points

Who does not believe in God. I believe in the one through God whose name is Jesus. I bet DanaforYeshua and other Christian believers will say the same thing. I bring a question to all atheism people "If God does not exist, where do you go when you die?" In my opinion all atheism will go to hell when they die as they never believe in Jesus our mighty saviour. I advise all atheism all people to start believing as death is like a blind hand. It will sweep you away without realising it. Here is the sinners prayer:

"Heavenly Father, have mercy on me, a sinner. I believe in you and that your word is true. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that he died on the cross so that I may now have forgiveness for my sins and eternal life. I know that without you in my heart my life is meaningless.

I believe in my heart that you, Lord God, raised Him from the dead. Please Jesus forgive me, for every sin I have ever committed or done in my heart, please Lord Jesus forgive me and come into my heart as my personal Lord and Savior today. I need you to be my Father and my friend.

I give you my life and ask you to take full control from this moment on; I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ."

Amen.

Pray this prayer soon. You will experience his wonders and grace by doing so. Also come to the church nearest your home every Sunday to hear his promises for you.

Side: Theism
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
3 points

I bring a question to all atheism people "If God does not exist, where do you go when you die?"

As if you have any idea whatsoever. And just because you might be right about heaven and hell doesnt mean i should abandon all critical thinking skill and force myself into blind faith somehow in an attempt to cover my ass.

"Heavenly Father, have mercy on me, a sinner. I believe in you and that your word is true. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that he died on the cross so that I may now have forgiveness for my sins and eternal life

Just saying you believe something does not mean you actually believe it, nor does it make it true. For example, i could SAY that i believe in unicorns. Do i actually believe in them? no. i assure you i dont. And just because i might have believed in them did not make them true for those few seconds, nor for any amount of time.

I know that without you in my heart my life is meaningless.

A few of america's founders were atheists, were their lives meaningless? So was Clarence Darrow, and Douglas Adams, and Peter Atkins, and Julius Axelrod, and ALL OF THESE PEOPLE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listsofatheists

Were their lives meaningless? No. They were more meaningfull than one million of you put together. And they were so without your God.

Pray this prayer soon. You will experience his wonders and grace by doing so

I humored you and said it with full emotion. I felt nothing but the itch of a mosquito bite on my ankle and nothing more. Your wishfull thinking might trick YOU into thinking something happens when such magic words are uttered, but not me. Not us rational human beings. Sorry.

Also come to the church nearest your home every Sunday to hear his promises for you.

All i hear is "give us money". No, im not going to a church. What's the point? The bible already says that you should pray alone and not for attention and whatnot so why do you HAVE to meet up? You have all the tools you need, a bible and two clasped hands. Now i dont think that that means shit but it just goes to show you churches are pointless money funnels. I mean, you gotta have very little personal thought to even be a christian, but to be a church goer, you gotta have no personal thought whatsoever.

Also, god has a shitty track record of keeping promises. Ill take my chances with persuing my goals using my own skills and work. Thanks

Side: Atheism
Shemael(381) Disputed
2 points

Ave Satanas, believe what you believe. I don't care if you don't come to church or receive Christ because you will be going to hell and I will be going to heaven. Maybe one day, Jesus will show you something that will make you believe but until then, I will be waving at you from heaven while you are burning in hell. You should listen to me even if I am 13 because this is what is good for you. And btw, the lives of Clarence Darrow and Peter Atkins may not be meaningless now but there are certainly going to suffer in hell when they die. And at church, you don't give money, your'e receiving more of Jesus favour

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

In Bible Codes, some are far out and take it far out. But some are a signature of Divine Authorship. And these ones are definitely signatures as if He etched His Word with His own hand.

Pi found in Genesis 1: 1 and adv math e found in John 1: 1.

These aren't spread out, found in difficulty, and in need of twisting. These two adv math codes are found, each found using within one verse. And each one found separately in chapter one of two seperate books, written in two separate millennials, in written in two separate languages. And the nature of interpretation works with what is there from the ancient text.

And the odds of them occurring at any point at all within all 66 books of the Bible is in probabilities of unreasonable proportions.

What do you think is the probability of a few of these together found coded in the Bible? If just musing at first glance, wouldn't you say, " no way?" I'm not even saying in the whole Bible. What is the probability all these are found in only six books out if 66?

As for me, I dont think a calculation is needed to tell me that is an unreasonable probability in calculations of a snowflakes chance in Hell!

Even crazier, pi and e are coded in two different languages, Hebrew for Jews and Greek was a time period of the Gospel's progression out to the Gentiles.

And both verses state "In the beginning," so they each speak of a time period of Creation and in Jesus as the Creator. And advanced math equations not known yet for 1000s of years to come.

In Genesis 1: 1 pi equation is encoded, in creation of the world and universe and in God stitching prophesy into appointed times to bring Creation full circle.

And in John 1: 1 in Greek while the Gospel is propelled out to the Gentiles, you find in verse one the equation for e, which is compound interest, multiplying exponentially.

So even the equations found communicate the purpose of the event. And even the Bible Author God, divided these times by purpose as shown in the 1st verses of these two books, Genesis and John. Then to add to this timetables for dating history is BC and AD.

So the Bible notes each beginning with a math equation. Then took the division of time line for dating history. And then add TORH TORH YHWY HROT HROT in the beginning of each of the five books of the Bible at intervals of Bible numbers of importance in the written text throughout every book of seven and forty-nine .

These singuarly are a stretch against reasonable probability, but for all to be right there on the top, not buried or crazy, together all these are proof of God and His Word. All of these together are impossible odds without Divine Authorship. Together these are more than just an oooh wow, these are against odds of probabilities that are not even be conceivable.

Now in contradiction beween the improbability of two faiths.

A comparison between Christianity and Evolution as ecplanation of Creation.

So on one hand, Evolutionism states strands of DNA self assembled and mutated and against all odds of occurance and against all odds of science principles and without any evidence of a physical example in front of our eyes, we are told to believe it. And that it is factual.

Then you take just these few pieces of many in evidence, tangible and available to view in everyone's individual hands. With everyone having the ability to test it, and even count out the codes for themselves, and literally proving itself in person from the beginning and in person showing agsinst all odds He not only created, but He put it in writing against all odds to prove it!

You have to be evil or an idiot to at least not step back and say there is more to God and the Bible than I currently think. Maybe I should look further!

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

There are numerous calculations and measurements in the Bible from specific measurements in building designs instructed by God and in dates and times found the Bible.

Well I dont know why God put it there. Id imagine the book is so full of knowledge and wisdom and understanding that on one side its a confirmation that there is an outside influence and showing something that specific.

Even complete to the 4th decimal place in equations beyond the writers knowledge and ability. So it was a purposeful design to authenticate it. Or sign it as authored by more than the men that physically penned it.

Also God confounds the wise and mocks fools. So when the book is opened the foolishness of academia that denied God and caused multitudes to stumble and not seek God. When it is unrolled it will both mock and judge them. The blood of those they cause to stumble will be on their hands.

As far as the math itself, Im not a mathematician, so I can only think of known application as a lay person. Pi is measurements of a circle, inside out, and across etc...

pi appears in all sorts of calculations for physics, engineering, electrical systems.

The double-helix is DNA revolves around pi. Pi is in the rainbow, the pupil of the eye, and when a raindrop falls into water pi emerges in the spreading rings. It appears in colors and in music. It is also used in probability and statistics.

So I think the placement is not a calculation as in a word problem. But all incompassing of God's creation, intervention, judgement, and salvation. He brings creation full circle from creation to fall to our redemption.

Fullness of His dwelling. Complete measurement. God uses math and measurements within the scriptures also. Like measurements of the Noahs Ark and the Ark of the Covenant. And all kinds of measurements. So measurements and math are not foriegn to the actual reading of the written text.

So hidden in verse 1 of chapter 1 in Genesis and In John 1: 1 is profound and absolute design written by more than the pen of men!!

Gen 6 - Ark Measurements

14 Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and finish it to a cubit from the top; and set the door of the ark in the side of it; you shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.

17 Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

Romans 8

38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And "e" found in John 1: 1 Would be measurements of exponential growth. Which is what happened bt the Jews initially rejecting the Messiah.

Causing it to go out to the Gentiles. But also prophesied to come full circle, and lift the veil. To make a round trip so to speak, to reveal to the Jews also so in the end they also see the Messiah as who He is, Jesus.

Completing His creation full circle! And His salvation saves exponentially.

Side: Theism
riahlize(1573) Disputed
2 points

In my opinion all atheism will go to hell when they die as they never believe in Jesus our mighty saviour. I advise all atheism all people to start believing as death is like a blind hand. It will sweep you away without realising it.

Someone can say this about any religion. Why should I believe Jesus is real over Krishna?

Side: Atheism
nooby(14) Disputed
3 points

In my opinion all atheism will go to hell when they die as they never believe in Jesus our mighty saviour. I advise all atheism all people to start believing as death is like a blind hand. It will sweep you away without realising it.

Let me tell you a secret: death will sweep away you as well. It will ultimately sweep away each and every human :).

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
1 point

You are the ultimate brain dead drone, perfect Christian, if you'd Muslim you'd already blown up some nursery .

Side: Atheism
SC17(25) Disputed
0 points

First off, what you just said wasn't even a real argument; it was more of an attack than anything. Also, what you just said simultaneously makes you and your cause look bad.

Now, Shemael is right here; you will be going to hell if you don't repent. If you do repent, I guarantee that it will be life-changing. If you want some evidence, look at Lee Stroble, author of The Case for Christ. He was an atheist like you and managed to find reasonable proof for the existence of God. I would recommend getting that book if you're still debating on whether God exists or not.

Side: Theism
runderekrun(159) Disputed
-1 points

Shamael,fuck off dont preach,just prove,i can prove there is no god next sunday by walking in a church and let of a bomb,so why would tour god let all the ones who survive live with pain and that it happened in the safest place on earth,fuck off

Side: Atheism
Stryker(849) Disputed
2 points

# JustinCarter2

Side: Theism
5 points

It is interesting throughout history the message of love, peace and compassion becomes perverted even if the bearer of that message is a supreme cosmic power. The Big Bang can be likened as a mother that conceives the universe. So anyway, these prophets always get this epiphany from messengers be it Angel or during solidarity and isolation and to give words to them is the worst possible mistake. Their primitive minds uses this privilege to give themselves authority that their judgement, since 'I am the chosen one' absolute and just.

So do I believe in God? Yes. But because we undermine the original message

we need to move forward with the times and not take things too literally. Their purpose have been fulfilled and now everyone has faith but often forget the spiritual aspects of it. Segregation and murder is a choice made by humans. Even if your dusty tome tells you to, we all learn to draw the line since we all have common sense. Some people think the Big Bang is the final (boring too) answer some people dont. Perfectly understandable.

Side: Theism
5 points

All I can say for those who do not believe in Jesus is Good Luck in hell. Only Jesus can perform miracles in your life. Read the story of Elijah in the bible and you will understand. But I don't think you atheism will ever read it.

Side: Theism
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
3 points

Ive read the entire bible and it has actually made me MORE of an atheist. The whole thing is riddled with fabrications and errors it practically reflects the writing of a third grader.

Also, if you actually believe that not only are people who dont believe in god going to hell, but that they actually DESERVE to be tortured for eternity, youre a fucked up human being with absolutely zero sense of morality or personal thought beyond that of what your stupid book and insane religion has told you.

Side: Atheism
xBetzy(123) Disputed
2 points

Hell is never mentioned in either the Torah or the Bible. The primitive and brief explanations given are of a proto-underworld similar to Hades' domain.

Side: Atheism
Tim17(103) Disputed
1 point

Please provide evidence for God and hell. And also your bible is man made.

Side: Atheism
runderekrun(159) Disputed
1 point

Fucked up dickhead,i dont think you will read the bible,i read it and then burnt it,and i will read it again and burn it once again,miracles today spastic,arent you living a shit life so you may have eternal life,so why any miracles today,must be for us no believers,as you dont need a miracle,you already believe,thick skull/little brain.

Side: Atheism
5 points

There is a supreme super power above all living and nonliving organisms , this super power is defined as GOD

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
1 point

There is a supreme super power above all living and nonliving organisms , this super power is defined as GOD

What would be your proof for that supreme power?

Side: Atheism

Nep... Nep... Nep...

Yep. I am a theist. Oh, everyone have a really nice day.

Side: Theism
4 points

Now I don't fully believe in God, but I must say I can't disprove "its" existence. First of all, I have noticed in the Quran, there are many scientific claims that have been proven many times. There is a whole book about it, but what particularly interested me is The Big Bang, Shape of the Earth, the Moons source of light, and the existence of Atoms. I find this interesting because I study Physics and just love these concepts. Evolution has always seemed like an interesting idea to me, however there really has been so much controversy around it that I decided to scrap the whole idea. I mean, lets face it, Science has corrected itself millions of times while this 1000 year old book hasn't changed a word. Im not muslim, i dont want to be, its just interesting. When I mean controversy I mean that people have staged many fossils (and it hasn't been conducted fully in a lab and hasn't been quantified). To conclude, you can't quantify God, and I only believe in things you can explain in a formula. But this is.... coincidence?

Side: Theism
ds229(29) Disputed
1 point

It's weird that you find the shape of the earth and the moons "source of light" interesting since those things are so simple to understand. The earth is round because gravity compresses it. Try putting some putty on a table and wait for a bit. it will smooth out and flatten out. The moon's "light source" is the sun's light waves reflecting off the moon.

Side: Atheism
Name(18) Disputed
1 point

Describe to me how gravity shapes the Earth; what is gravity; what all does gravity affect and how; why round; etc. I could do the same for the moon analogy, but I think you see my point.

Side: Theism

It is foolish to say you can completly disprove or prove God's existance. In my opinion he wanted it to be this way, so you must have faith. One thing I find stupid is when people get mad at God, because they think is design is stupid, when in face you are nothing compared to him.

Side: Theism
Sitara(11080) Disputed
0 points

I object to that. .

Side: Atheism

I saw one argument ''he almost undoubtedly does not'' .. be careful to make such a claim.

Just look at the human body, how well programmed it is, look inside a human cell, watch the DNA and how accurate and well designed it is.

To say that that came from nothing is not science, it is magic.

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
1 point

So you think that brain cancer is well programmed feature by the God? As well as Down syndrome and CP? Do you mean that leukemia is accurate and well design?

Tell me what proof do you have that DNA and human body is not a result of ever ending process of improvement?

Side: Atheism
3 points

So you think that brain cancer is well programmed feature by the God? As well as Down syndrome and CP? Do you mean that leukemia is accurate and well design?

I never said God is good. I never said God can't make mistakes either, I never said the system God created is perfect. I don't think it is meant to be perfect.

Tell me what proof do you have that DNA and human body is not a result of ever ending process of improvement?

Do you mean evolution? If you mean evolution, I have no intentions of disproving it because it is a well known fact.

Side: Theism

God is real. If not, how were we created? How were our ancestors created? How were the forests, seas and skies created? God created the heavens and the earth. He created the universe where all the planets are created. In the Bible's first chapter, it explains how everything was made and how our world developed.

Supporting Evidence: Genesis: the First Book of the Bible (www.biblegateway.com)
Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Quoting bible is as valid agrument as citing Harry Potter .

Side: Atheism
IxI_rook_imi(5) Clarified
1 point

I personally like to cite Master Yoda, Luke Skywalker, sometimes Mace Windu for my irrefutable proofs. I'm told that's acceptable.

Side: Theism
seanB(950) Disputed
1 point

We weren't "created". We evolved. There is proof of one, and no proof of the other.

Side: Atheism
4 points

God is proved by Quantum Mechanics. Quantum Mechanics states that before the universe, there were quantum fluctuations occurring all over the place. The Big Bang was most likely a massive quantum fluctuation that became self-sustaining, but to become self-sustaining external forces would have to aid it so that it could become powerful enough. Since no other matter existed, God is the only explanation. A quantum fluctuation expands quickly if it becomes self-sustaining, and since time was not invented yet it probably seemed like a huge very fast explosion. There is more but that is all for now.

Side: Theism

"The bible says God exists, so God exists". Very bad way to argue with atheists.

Side: Theism
superswimmer(174) Clarified
2 points

I disagree. Because they base their authority on senses and reasoning which are fallible and can't be tested empirically. The Bible is infallible and is the basis for knowledge and understanding, therefore it is more reliable then what they use to argue.

Side: Theism
IxI_rook_imi(5) Disputed
1 point

Spider-Man comics are irrefutable as well. Should we use them when determining how to lead our lives as well?

Side: Atheism
4 points

How might we prove that God is imaginary? One way would be to find a contradiction between the definition of God and the God we experience in the real world.

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref]

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.

We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In Mark 9:23:

All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37:

For with God nothing will be impossible.

Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate cancer, nothing happens.

And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect.

Side: Theism
crw1000(13) Disputed
2 points

god has to be a part of creation if god does exist.i think creation is the most powerful force around.i say the created god changes with the continuing evolution of creation.in other words the created god of 2013 is a different form of creation than the created god of say pre history.in 1000 years time the created god will be different again.

Side: Atheism
rexwilson(37) Disputed
3 points

God cannot be created. If God was created then God cannot be God. God was not created and therefore is God.

There must be an intelligent mind behind everything.

Side: Theism
rexwilson(37) Disputed
2 points

The statistics you presented on prayers coming through is simply nonsense. I'm sure the stats doesn't cover that there are many prayers not answered until many years after they are said. What if the 30% percent fall into that category? If you read the Bible, you will find that many times people waited for for years before receiving an answer.

"Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying."

Jesus was speaking directly to his apostles when he told them that the prayer of faith would accomplish anything they set their mind to. And it so happened that all the great miracles recorded in "the Acts of the Apostles" were fulfillment of those things Jesus had promised.

When Jesus said that anything asked in his name would be granted, he was telling the truth in that many outstanding results have been accomplished in the name of Jesus, since the apostles have passed away. There are many accounts of miracles happening after the apostles in St. Augustine's City of God. There have been many other miracles established since then in the name of Jesus, up to modern day, some of which I have personally witnessed. But since your fond of calling people liars to further your "hardness of heart," you will also say that I'm lying.

Jesus didn't mean that we had an unlimited wish-list. There is a text in James that addresses those who don't receive answers to their prayers: those who pray amiss, missing the will and purpose of God. You see many pray for stones to turn into bread instead of understanding why Jesus didn't do so, even though he had the power to.

Prayers are most powerful when they are humble and to better others. When we seek the kingdom of God first in our praying our prayers are more readily answered.

Speak for yourself when you say that prayers don't work, because prayers have always worked for me.

Side: Atheism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Citing bible is like citing a comic book to prove existence of batman .

Side: Atheism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Quoting bible is as valid agrument as citing Harry Potter .

Side: Atheism
4 points

if god doesn't exist then who created man and the world

.

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
2 points

World has always existed, it is worlds nature. Man was created by same force as all other living beings, both animals and plants and anything else that has dna in itself.

Side: Atheism
UpForDebate(25) Disputed
1 point

The universe has not always existed, this has been scientifically proven. The universe is slowly shrinking, dying out, contracting, etc. The point is, it will come to an end.

Think of it this way: A flashlight has batteries, energy, right? Let's say the flashlight is on. The flashlight is slowly dying out and growing less bright. It can not have been on since the beginning of time. (Ignoring the fact that flashlights had not been invented yet. This is purely hypothetical.) If it had, it would have already run out of energy. Just like how the universe is slowly dying out, and running out of energy.

If the universe was eternal, it would have died out by now. But since the universe is not eternal, it still has life left and is using it up until, undeniably, it will come to a definite end.

I'm hoping you saw where I was going with this. Explanation is not my strong suit.

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
0 points

if god doesn't exist then who created man and the world

idiot, how did you even managed to learn how to use computer?

Side: Atheism
2 points

God showed him the path.

And God is all knowing, so for God to show this guy something means he is far from an idiot.

Side: Atheism

The proof that the Christian God exists is simple.

First, nobody needs proof because Romans 1 says all know and are without excuse, those who call themselves 'atheists' do know there is a God, they just hate him and his laws.

The Proof is:

Major premise: Without God, you could not know anything

Minor premise: You know things

Conclusion: Therefore, God exists.

Support for Major premise: There are only two ways to know anything, absolute knowledge or revelation from one with absolute knowledge. Because if you did not have absolute knowledge, something you don't know could contradict what you think you know, therefore those without absolute knowledge cannot know anything.

To be all knowing is to be God. God is then only one who knows all things.

Therefore, to know anything, you would have to have revelation from God.

Support for Minor premise: You know things. The funny thing about atheists is that everytime they open their mouth they utter a knowledge claim. Yet, as I have just proved, if there is no God no one can know anything. Any argument an atheist presents relies upon the existence of knowledge and logic, both un-accounted for in an atheistic worldview. Even to say "I don't know anything" is to make a knowledge claim. A common rebuttal is "I don't know anything, but neither do you!" it doesn't take long to see the flawed logic in that statement, for if you don't know anything, how do you know what I know?

The logical conclusion is that, because without God you could not know anything and you know things, God exists. And each vote for the atheists side can be counted as a vote for the Theism side because each of those arguments prove God exists.

Repent and put your trust in Christ alone. You love you sin and that is why you call yourself an atheist. You don't want there to be a God so you can do whatever you want with no eternal consequence, but you know he exists, you do not need this proof, and if you don't trust in Christ's blood to pay for your sins you will pay for them for eternity.

For more information in this argument, go to proofthatgodexists.org

Side: Theism
AwaitJustice(2) Disputed
4 points

You used the Bible as your source. Not very efficient, considering that your opponents don't even believe in it.

If God existed before us humans, then why wasn't the Bible written at the very beginning of humankind? Please don't say something like:

"Because the humans then weren't developed enough yet." My response: I thought God was supposed to be all-powerful. Wouldn't he have made the first humans perfect at once?

"Because God wanted us (people who lived "after the Bible was written") to be the ones to believe in him." My response: Doesn't your Bible say something about God 'loving all his children?' Or something like that.

~~~~~~~

Also, you said: " You love you sin and that is why you call yourself an atheist. You don't want there to be a God so you can do whatever you want with no eternal consequence, but you know he exists, you do not need this proof, and if you don't trust in Christ's blood to pay for your sins you will pay for them for eternity."

Well, that was interesting. And outrageous.

You're saying that anyone who doesn't believe the same things as you are evil beings. Thanks a lot.

If this were true, then all atheists would be murdering and stealing and destroying the world by now. That hasn't happened.

A lot of wars have been fought because of religion.

Lastly, do really think God would approve of the ways the Native Americans were treated when the Christians came to the New World? I hardly think he'd support whipping and beating and yelling.

This modern, ignorant treatment isn't any better.

Side: Atheism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Just pile of illogical shit .

Side: Atheism
4 points

I will support that God does exist.

The bible may seem very illogical, however if you look at science. For example Solid matter, you may or may not begin to realize the confusion of what makes Solid matter solid, you may say solid matter is solid because the particles are solid, but what makes the particles solid? You could say forces make particles solid, but what gives forces this ability?

So you can come to the conclusion that God creates the rules of the universe(including what gives forces the ability), you could in fact argue that there could be other rules that the universe would have followed perfectly, and that he can do anything. The question is what is God? God might not be psychical, and that he is a being who has no limit's to what he can do. In fact you could say, with God anything could be possible!

Side: Theism
4 points

Christians have more doubt than everything added about their god,i have sold stolen goods to them,where a muslim has walked away,but they have all their doubt in themselves cause they know they arent good.christians living a good just life so they must make up for it by preaching their filthy diahrea up all our asses and they just cannot concept that 1 plus 1 equals 2,but bash it in at a young age/spastic(if of age)and teach them that 1 plus 1 equals 1million miracles,now FUCKOFF

Side: Theism
4 points

William Lane Craig (PhD and Professor) had said that empty space is not nothing. A void (or empty space) is still space, even though empty. It is still a dimension. Now a dimensionless state is nothing, empty space is something. According to Scotus Dun’s (Oxford graduate and scholar) argument of causes and effects there has to be a cause for an effect. An endless amount of causes (like the universe always existing) is impossible. In ancient Greece there was once a god named “chaos”, which literally was nothing. But they treated it as a god (or a supreme being) because it led to the creation of the other gods. Now scientifically, the universe happened when “nothing” began to vibrate and created a void, and continued vibrating until a small microscopic particle called the Higgs Boson (aka “the God particle”or particle that gives everything mass) exploded and created the expansion of the universe which led to the creation of 9 dimensions. 8 spatial and 1 temporal. Which led to mass but technically did not create mass because mass is positive and gravity is negative. So the total amount of mass and gravity equals out to zero, so it still follows the law of conservation of mass. Keep in mind before the big bang, time (the temporal dimension), did not exist. And after the big bang height, width, and depth were created, as well as time, which were 4 of the said dimensions. So as the universe expanded it created atoms which eventually fused and created suns and planets. One of which planet was earth. And the first life forms arose (cyanobacteria); which later led to humans. Now genetically all humans can be traced back to one male and one female, and in the book of Genesis the first humans were one male (Adam) and one female (eve). And the Dead Sea scrolls do not rule out evolution. In fact they support it. In the book of Enoch it describes Giant’s that walked the earth before and alongside humans, which supports fossil evidence of human evolution. Now explain to me how 5,000 years before genetic testing people knew that humanity started with one male and one female. Also describe how the Greeks would know about the vibration that led to the creation of the universe, even naming it, before modern science. And finally how can you explain how “nothing” can vibrate and lead to the something before TIME even existed? There scientifically had to have been someone to create that effect, because an effect can’t happen without a cause, it’s scientifically impossible. Plus the laws such as conservation of mass and physics are organized, and the Universe is spontaneous, and scientifically only intelligent life can set laws. Like Isaac Newton and John Scotus Duns both said that no cause can happen without an effect, and “every action has an equal and opposite reaction” sounds familiar doesn't it? Because without a cause there can be no effect, and there can be no endless amount of causes. How can you say that the universe created itself? Not only does that go against John Scotus Duns argument, Isaac Newton’s laws of motion, but even Einstein ruled out Atheism. Something will not and has not ever been created from nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial Eve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal Adam

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/duns-scotus/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BTT62YJCI8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe

Side: Theism
Stryker(849) Disputed
3 points

William Lane Craig xD.

Side: Atheism
tomcruise55(17) Disputed
4 points

I'm guessing you have a PhD and are a professor as well? I don't understand why you wouldn't believe in God. I mean you look like Jesus. lol.

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Craig :D just another deluded moron full of shit .

Side: Atheism

Just one word, "Christmas!!!" ;)

Side: Theism
joecavalry(40163) Clarified
4 points

I was going to say, "Free stuff/presents!!!" but that's more than one word, so... ;)

Side: Theism

#1- There's too much Evidence of the Big Bang Theory!

#2- Too evidence of Evolution.

#3- Toumai or Saheleanthropus didn't worship God.

#4-No evidence proving that any of these "Gods" exist!

Side: Theism
HaleyT(7) Disputed
2 points

Then why are you on the theism side if you know about all of this evidence?

Side: Atheism
3 points

It was an acciden. I was rushing in the middle of class. Every times long on to this site I'm in school. Cut a guy some slack.

Side: Theism
4 points

Obviously God exists. The idea that the beauty of this universe just came about by accident is something no educated person can believe.

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Beauty is subjective. It is not objective centralized thing or constant .

Side: Atheism
4 points

IF YOU THIN THERE IS NO GOD

THINK ABOUT CREATING YOUR EYES WHICH YOU CAN SEE WITH THEM

THINK ABOUT CREATING YOUR EARS WHICH YOU CAN HEAR SOUNDS AND OTHERS

THINK ABOUT CREATING YOUR HAND WHICH YOU CAN MOVE HIT AND PLAY WITH

THINK ABOUT CREATING YOUR BRAIN WHICH YOU CAN THINK BY IT

THIS SOME EXAMPLES FROM OUR BODIES HOWEVER CREATING THE SKY EARTH PLANTS ANIMALS AND EVERY THING AROUND US......

ALLAH IS THE GREATEST.....

Side: Theism
AngryGenX(463) Disputed
0 points

Your moon goddess made eyes and ears? How is that relevant?........................................................................................

Side: Atheism
4 points

An explosion destroys not create! how can the big bang cause a world to create? Especially if you think of one individual human being, to create such a sophisticated creature, the brain alone should make you wonder how all of a sudden it appeared to be! even atheists know that there has to be a god, it`s just that if you admit it, then all of a sudden there instructions of god to follow,the holy bible. Tell an atheist to tell her mother in her death bed that she should go to hell, this cannot happen because inside of every ones heart they know the truth. it`s just that they are afraid to admit it.

Side: Theism
ant1greeny(5) Disputed
3 points

If you blow up a rock face, yes it destroys it, but it also CREATES new smaller rocks.

I admit this does not explain how something exploded from nothing, but neither does god!

Did he just suddenly appear!?

You must be pretty stupid if you think atheists believe a brain was instantly created from nothing.

We believe that matter slowly (over millions/billions of years) created things & that these creations slowly adapted to be more effective.

"All atheists know there must be a God"

What!?

Do you know what atheism is!?

Once my parents (who are Christian) told me "If we are wrong, we don't lose anything because we will just die & that will be it. But if you're wrong, you lose everything, so why not believe?"

That got me thinking, most religious people are religious because they need a sort of 'safety net' around their life.

Religious person has a difficult situation-they pray.

Atheist has the same difficult situation-They solve it.

Us Atheists do not need someone else ruling our life just so we don't feel 'alone'.

Side: Atheism
Vincent_F(28) Disputed
5 points

"If you blow up a rock face, yes it destroys it, but it also CREATES new smaller rocks.

I admit this does not explain how something exploded from nothing, but neither does god!

Did he just suddenly appear!?"

God created our concept of "time." He is outside of time, therefore the laws of time do not apply to him. He is immutable (does not change) does not age, and does not have a beginning or an end, as those things only apply to something inside of time. Things inside of time must have a beginning, must age and grow, change, dissolve, decrease, and decay. Energy alone cannot sustain itself; it can only deplete and over a period of Time, and eventually run out. Energy INSIDE of time must have a source. It cannot increase itself without an external source, it only can decrease. There must be a self-sustaining "well" of energy that continues to supply the Universe, otherwise everything would have already brought about it's own destruction, or depletion. Therefore, the only logical and reasonable explanation is an external, self-sustaining energy source that exists OUTSIDE of time.

"You must be pretty stupid if you think atheists believe a brain was instantly created from nothing. "

You have made a very good point. An excellent one, perfectly logical and reasonable, and you are right. A brain cannot be instantly created from nothing. I hate to have to turn this around on you, but actually by saying that you are contradicting the entire Atheist argument. You say that a brain cannot be created from nothing, yet you will argue and say that a single particle of matter somehow appeared from nothing and then proceeded to evolve over billions of years into... Trees, stars, oceans, animals... humans... (hence billions of brains)... and all out of a single particle of matter which came from.......... what?

"We believe that matter slowly (over millions/billions of years) created things & that these creations slowly adapted to be more effective."

Use your logic, just for a moment! Take it back to the beginning to this matter that you say started it all. (Let's call this matter "M+") Where did M+ come from? Are you saying that M+ did not have a creator? That M+ has always existed? (Which strangely sounds like the argument for God) Or are you saying that M+ jumped into existence out of absolutely nothing, out of no pre-existing material? (which contradicts science in every way)

There are only three arguments to debate on that issue.

1) Matter has always existed

2) Matter jumped into existence with no outside source

3) Matter was created by an external source

1) -If you say matter (M+ for the purpose of this statement) has always existed, I would say that theory is only possible if M+ is outside of time and does not need a creator, which would not make sense because you say the matter "evolved" and if this were true, anything that it evolved into would be outside of time as well, meaning you and I and animals and the Earth would not age or decay. The mere fact that we age and decay is proof that we are inside of time. And that also does not explain where physical laws like gravity and time itself came from.

2) --If you say that M+ jumped into existence out of nothing, then I would tell you that you are contradicting science itself, and there would no more point in discussing the theory. You and I and any other logical thinker both know that is not possible. The same goes for any other theory. Saying that chemicals mixed together and created the matter, I would make the same argument, asking where the chemicals came from, etc. I believe it all boils down to an Uncaused Causer.

3) --If you agree with science and say that the matter has to have an external cause in order to exist, then I would simply concede my argument and my case for God would have been made. God exists outside of time, God CREATED time and is not governed BY time, and He created everything that exists INSIDE of time. The Uncaused Causer, so-to-speak.

"...most religious people are religious because they need a sort of 'safety net' around their life."

What is interesting about your statement here is that for the most part, you are right. Religion, as defined by man's attempt to be equal to God through rituals and traditions and good deeds, (hate to step on anyone's toes) is corny and faulty, and any smart person (Atheist, Theist, Agnostic, whatever...) can see right through it. I consider myself a Christian, but I recognize that the typical Christian (99% actually) is religious and usually hypocritical. However do not equate hypocritical religion with the belief IN God. The simple belief that God exists is not religion; it is science, logic and reason. Religion is driven by emotion, pride, and greed, whether people want to admit it or not. You can be Christian and be led into religion without even knowing it. I understand you have met so many hypocritical, religious theists, but be careful not to label EVERY single person who believes in the existence of God under the same label as "hypocritical" and "religious."

"Religious person has a difficult situation-they pray.

Atheist has the same difficult situation-They solve it."

I, taking my stance as a non-religious, Bible-believing Christian, believe that God exists, that He is perfect, and that he loves us. (If you want to discuss this I would be happy to, but on a different debate...) He hates the problems in our lives and the fact that we go through so much pain. It hurts him to see how much pain we go through, but he will not mess with free will and make us like robots, to do whatever he wants, as that would corrupt His perfection and make him imperfect. The fact that we have free will means that we have a choice whether or not to believe in Him. He leaves that up to us. He gives us as much evidence as possible, so that we can figure out on our own that He exists just by using the tools he gave us in our minds, the tools of Logic and Reason.

Because of our free will, we as humanity disobey God all the time. This disobedience is called "sin." We "sin" all the time, starting with Adam and Eve. Because God is perfect, part of His perfection is Justice. He must see that injustice is punished and justice is done, otherwise He would be corrupt. We have sinned, done wrong, and therefore have to be punished rightfully by just action. He is perfect and therefore has the right to judge us. He created a place called hell that is basically like a prison, a jail for the unjust. It is our punishment for our sin, and we deserve it. However God HATES to see us punished no matter what we've done because He loves us, and so because of His love He created a way that we could escape that punishment. He took a part of Himself, His son, and sent His son to die as a sacrifice in our place. That son was called Jesus Christ. Jesus set aside His divine attributes for a while and was born on Earth, and lived a perfect, sinless life. God had nothing to punish Him for, so when Jesus was crucified, God saw Him as a replacement for us, and God punished Jesus instead of us for our sin. Every sin that we ever would commit, God punished Jesus for it. Jesus finally died after God punished Him on the cross that He was nailed to, and then Jesus after three days in the tomb was resurrected, and defeated death and hell. Now, because of that, God is able to forgive us based on Jesus' sacrifice, and we don't have to go to hell and be punished; instead we can live with God in the place that He is designing for us as a blessing after we die. We now can have hope, and God can't wait to give us an awesome place in Heaven after death.

All of this is simple: If you accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice, and believe that He died in your place, you receive forgiveness and don't have to worry about punishment anymore. All it takes is for you to believe it and accept it as truth.

This is not religion, because God does not require you to go to church, go through any rituals, live a good life, or even be moral to be forgiven. And that is where the confusion lies in the world today. People think they have to do something to get heaven, and they become prideful and arrogant much of the time. It's all just confusion of the truth.

Just use the tools of Logic and Reason to study all of these things that I have told you, and see if they don't make sense! Have an open mind, study translations of the Bible and see what it originally was meant to say as opposed to the translations in English. You will find it does not contradict itself. Study the life of Jesus, even using non-Biblical texts. Philosophers (Atheist and Theist alike) will admit to the life and death of Jesus. The empty tomb after He was resurrected has never been refuted, and if He was resurrected, that means He was who He said He was and that you can have faith in Him. Do all of this without bias and pre-conceived notions!

"Us Atheists do not need someone else ruling our life just so we don't feel 'alone'."

The question is not if you FEEL alone, it is whether or not you ARE alone. If God does not exist, there is no reason to be moral, to live with standards, regardless of how you feel. But that also means there is no hope. If you're wrong, God exists, and you have purpose and there is a meaning to life that you haven't discovered yet. I know where I am going when I die; I have hope, because I know there is purpose to life and this one is not the end. I can't explain it or prove it personally to you, you just have to experience it for yourself.

I know where I am going, and I have a reason to have hope. Can you say the same?

Side: Theism
rafaelbello(2) Disputed
2 points

if you don't want a "safety net' that is your problem. and the explosion argument is stupid

and also then can the atheist please explain then the conscience? or maybe abstract feelings. because i am pretty sure those aren't natural or come from anything material, and it certainly doesn't take millions of years either.

and god doesn't rule our life we freely choose to do this

Side: Theism
4 points

Don't you guys get tired of doing these debates? It's like you need them to stroke your ego or something.

Far as a god or gods go, I'm not certain. But pretty sure Atheism isn't the right thing, as well. Mainly since I exist, and yes that is a total fallacy and I don't care if you call me on it.

Side: Theism
4 points

There is a God for sure. The perfection of the things out here had to be created with an intelligent mind. No way a big bang made everything perfect and reasonably stable. "The Big Bang" started with one atom? The explosion from one Atom would only have enough force to create a nuclear explosion without not create a whole Universe with perfect life on Earth. You cannot disprove the existence of God. Ceasar only has 3 eyewitnesses of his Existence which then clarifies his existence but Jesus 18 eyewitnesses of his Existence and you still can't believe? Jesus had been proven to be the son of God. There is no good reason for Athiesm to be true. The proof of Jesus is the proof of God's existence. They definitely did not make up the stories of Jesus. All of the Canon(66 books in the Bible) agrees within its self. For example; Luke will give another perspective of Jesus in the same event as what Matthew wrote. Athiest say that the Gospels contradict each other but it actually appears to contradict each but it does not. Apparent contradictions are good to see from different eyewitnesses because if they said the same event exactly the same then it would appear that they set up a made up story. But you can put the perspectives of different eyewitnesses stories into one. Just like there can be 4 witnesses of a wonderful BBQ. One can talk about the grass, one can talk about the Chicken,one can talk about the salad, and one can talk about the fireworks. Each testimony may not talk about the same things about the BBQ nor have the same order but if you put all of the 4 testimonies together you will then get a full picture of the BBQ. They may even address what the other testimonies did address also but in a different way. Ok you get the point. The Bible is proven true through Archaeology and reason. God is proven true through the ressurection of his son Jesus. Prophecy proves the Bible to be true. Science and God agrees with each other. We dont agree with the Atheistic philosophy of science. If you come at the right approach then you will understand that science proves God. "There is no good reason for Athiesm to be true." William Lane Craig stated. I completely agree on that statement from Craig.

Side: Theism
4 points

Yes God DOES exist and here is some proof

Romans 1:20

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV / 92 helpful votes

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Revelation 4:11 ESV / 45 helpful votes

“Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.”

Hebrews 11:6 ESV / 44 helpful votes

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

1 John 4:8 ESV / 40 helpful votes

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Romans 1:18-20 ESV / 39 helpful votes

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Colossians 1:15 ESV / 36 helpful votes

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

John 1:1-2 ESV / 30 helpful votes

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Romans 1:21 ESV / 26 helpful votes

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

James 1:17 ESV / 20 helpful votes

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

John 3:8 ESV / 20 helpful votes

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 1:18 ESV / 20 helpful votes

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

Genesis 1:27 ESV / 18 helpful votes

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Psalm 90:2 ESV / 17 helpful votes

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

1 Peter 3:18-22 ESV / 14 helpful votes

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

John 4:24 ESV / 13 helpful votes

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

John 3:16-17 ESV / 13 helpful votes

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Romans 1:18 ESV / 12 helpful votes

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Jeremiah 29:13 ESV / 12 helpful votes

You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Psalm 19:1 ESV / 12 helpful votes

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

Romans 1:25 ESV / 11 helpful votes

Because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

Isaiah 40:26 ESV / 11 helpful votes

Lift up your eyes on high and see: who created these? He who brings out their host by number, calling them all by name, by the greatness of his might, and because he is strong in power not one is missing.

Genesis 2:1-25 ESV / 11 helpful votes

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation. These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,

Genesis 1:1-31 ESV / 11 helpful votes

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Romans 1:28 ESV / 10 helpful votes

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

Job 38:4 ESV / 10 helpful votes

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.

Psalm 14:1-4 ESV / 9 helpful votes

To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one. Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers who eat up my people as they eat bread and do not call upon the Lord?

John 6:55-59 ESV / 8 helpful votes

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.

John 6:50-71 ESV / 8 helpful votes

This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 3:16 ESV / 8 helpful votes

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Isaiah 7:14 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

James 2:19 ESV / 7 helpful votes

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

John 14:21 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

Mark 16:15-16 ESV / 7 helpful votes

And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 20:29 ESV / 6 helpful votes

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

John 20:19-24 ESV / 6 helpful votes

On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Psalm 13:5-6 ESV / 5 helpful votes

But I have trusted in your steadfast love; my heart shall rejoice in your salvation. I will sing to the Lord, because he has dealt bountifully with me.

Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV / 5 helpful votes

The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, Destroy.

Romans 6:23 ESV / 4 helpful votes

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 2:14 ESV / 4 helpful votes

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

John 3:5 ESV / 4 helpful votes

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 1:1 ESV / 4 helpful votes

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Luke 1:47-49 ESV / 4 helpful votes

And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant. For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.

Psalm 19:1-2 ESV / 4 helpful votes

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge.

Hebrews 12:6 ESV / 3 helpful votes

For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”

Hebrews 9:22 ESV / 3 helpful votes

Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins

We do not need proof at all.

God does exist and I know because of this story.

Elijah on Mount Carmel

16 So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him, and Ahab went to meet Elijah. 17 When he saw Elijah, he said to him, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?”

18 “I have not made trouble for Israel,” Elijah replied. “But you and your father’s family have. You have abandoned the Lord’s commands and have followed the Baals. 19 Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel’s table.”

20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.”

But the people said nothing.

22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”

Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”

25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.

Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”

34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.

“Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.

36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”

38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!”

40 Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.

41 And Elijah said to Ahab, “Go, eat and drink, for there is the sound of a heavy rain.” 42 So Ahab went off to eat and drink, but Elijah climbed to the top of Carmel, bent down to the ground and put his face between his knees.

43 “Go and look toward the sea,” he told his servant. And he went up and looked.

“There is nothing there,” he said.

Seven times Elijah said, “Go back.”

44 The seventh time the servant reported, “A cloud as small as a man’s hand is rising from the sea.”

So Elijah said, “Go and tell Ahab, ‘Hitch up your chariot and go down before the rain stops you.’”

45 Meanwhile, the sky grew black with clouds, the wind rose, a heavy rain started falling and Ahab rode off to Jezreel.

Side: Theism
MuckaMcCaw(1970) Disputed
2 points

The question is....how can the Bible be taken as absolute truth?

Bonus question: Why did you not even try to provide evidence from outside the Bible?

Side: Atheism
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

In other words: God exists because God says God exists. Fail.

Side: Atheism
0 points

ALL HAIL GODDESS Artemis - for the PROOF of her existence is mighty... ;)

Proof that Artemis exists (from the Iliad):

•05.051 ...Artemis taught the Trojan, Skamandrios (Scamander), how to strike down all wild things in the mountain forest

•05.053 ...Artemis of the showering arrows could not help Skamandrios (Scamander) when he was killed at Troy

•05.447 ...Artemis and Leto heal Aineias (Aeneas)

•06.205 ...Glaukos (Glaucus) related the story of how Artemis killed Laodameia, the daughter of Bellerophontes (Bellerophon)

•06.427 ...Artemis killed Andromakhe’s (Andromache) mother after Akhilleus (Achilles) had released her for ransom

•09.532 ...Artemis, of the golden chair, was angered at Oineus (Oeneus) for neglecting her in sacrifice and sent a boar to ravage the countryside

•09.536 ...Artemis, the daughter of great Zeus, was denied the first fruits by Oineus (Oeneus)

•09.538 ...Artemis is called ‘Lady of Arrows’

•09.547 ...Artemis caused great anger when the boar was dead and the hunters argued over possession of the boar’s head

•16.183 ...Hermes fell in love with Polymele when he saw her dancing in the choir of clamorous Artemis

•19.059 ...Akhilleus (Achilles) wishes that Artemis had killed Briseis instead of letting her become a point of dissention between himself and Agamemnon

•20.040 ...Apollon, Artemis, Aphrodite, Leto and Xanthos (Xanthus) fought on the side of the Trojans

•20.071 ...Artemis of the showering arrows stood against Hera when the Immortals entered the battle for Troy

•21.470 ...Apollon’s sister, Artemis, scolds him for not fighting Poseidon

•21.472 ...Artemis refers to Apollon as ‘striker from afar’

•21.480 ...Hera says that Artemis is shameless and bold for daring to stand against her in battle

•21.491 ...Hera grabs Artemis and knocks the bow and arrows from her shoulder; Artemis flees in tears

•21.505 ...Artemis, the maiden, bowed at the feet of Zeus

•21.509 ...Zeus speaks to Artemis and asks which of the gods has shamed her

•21.511 ...Artemis answers Zeus and says that Hera hit her during the fighting at Troy

•24.604 ...Akhilleus (Achilles) tells Priam about how Apollon had killed Niobe’s sons and Artemis had killed her daughters

Proof that Artemis exists (from the Odyssey):

•05.123 ...Kalypso (Calypso) reminds Hermes how chaste Artemis had killed Orion with her painless arrows because he was the lover of Eos (Dawn)

•06.102 ...Nausikaa was dancing like Artemis

•06.107 ...Artemis dances with the nymphs in the mountains

•06.151 ...Odysseus compares Nausikaa with the goddess Artemis in beauty and stature

•11.172 ...Odysseus encounters the ghost of his mother, Antikleia (Anticleia), in the Underworld and asks her if she died of illness or by the painless arrows of Artemis

•11.324 ...Artemis killed Ariadne on the island if Dia when Dionysus testified against her

•15.410 ...Apollon and Artemis come to the island of Syria and kill the aged painlessly with silver arrows

•15.478 ...When the swineherd, Eumaios (Eumaeus), was a child, he was kidnapped by Phoenicians with the help of his wicked nurse; Artemis killed her because of her betrayal

•17.037 ...Penelope was as lovely as Artemis or golden Aphrodite

•18.202 ...Penelope wishes that chaste Artemis would give her the peace of death

•19.054 ...Penelope was as lovely as Artemis or golden Aphrodite

•20.060 ...Penelope prays first to Artemis

•20.061 ...Penelope calls upon Artemis, daughter of Zeus, to pierce her heart and ease her pain

•20.071 ...Penelope thinks of the daughters of Pandareos (Pandareus) and how Hera gave them beauty, chaste Artemis gave them stature and Athene (Athena) gave them skill

•20.080 ...Penelope wishes that the gods would make her vanish or that lovely haired Artemis would kill her so she could be with Odysseus in the Underworld

http://messagenetcommresearch.com/myths/ bios/artemis.html

Proof that Artemis exists (from the Plato's Cratylus):

•Artemis is named from her healthy (artemes), well-ordered nature, and because of her love of virginity, perhaps because she is a proficient in virtue (arete), and perhaps also as hating intercourse of the sexes (ton aroton miseasa).

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/cratylus.html

Proof that Artemis exists (from The Theogony of Hesiod):

•(ll. 1-25) From the Heliconian Muses let us begin to sing, who hold the great and holy mount of Helicon, and dance on soft feet about the deep-blue spring and the altar of the almighty son of Cronos, and, when they have washed their tender bodies in Permessus or in the Horse's Spring or Olmeius, make their fair, lovely dances upon highest Helicon and move with vigorous feet. Thence they arise and go abroad by night, veiled in thick mist, and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis- holder and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals and the daughter of Zeus the aegis-holder bright-eyed Athene, and Phoebus Apollo, and Artemis who delights in arrows, and Poseidon the earth-holder who shakes the earth, and reverend Themis and quick-glancing (1) Aphrodite, and Hebe with the crown of gold, and fair Dione, Leto, Iapetus, and Cronos the crafty counsellor, Eos and great Helius and bright Selene, Earth too, and great Oceanus, and dark Night, and the holy race of all the other deathless ones that are for ever. And one day they taught Hesiod glorious song while he was shepherding his lambs under holy Helicon, and this word first the goddesses said to me -- the Muses of Olympus, daughters of Zeus who holds the aegis:

•(ll. 918-920) And Leto was joined in love with Zeus who holds the aegis, and bare Apollo and Artemis delighting in arrows, children lovely above all the sons of Heaven.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hesiod/theogony.htm

Proof that Artemis exists (from Callimachus - HYMN I. TO ZEUS):

•Thus, smith, we say, belong to Hephaestus; to Ares, warriors; to Artemis of the Tunic, huntsmen; to Phoebus they that know well the strains of the lyre.

Proof that Artemis exists (from Callimachus - HYMN II. TO APOLLO):

•[60] Artemis hunted and brought continually the heads of Cynthian goats and Phoebus plaited an altar.

Proof that Artemis exists (from the Callimachus - HYMN III. TO ARTEMIS):

•[1] Artemis we hymn – no light thing is it for singers to forget her – whose study is the bow and the shooting of hares and the spacious dance and sport upon the mountains;

• And give to me all mountains; and for city, assign me any, even whatsoever thou wilt: for seldom is it that Artemis goes down to the town.

•[28] ... Three times ten cities and towers more than one will I vouchsafe thee – three times ten cities that shall not know to glorify any other god but to glorify the only and be called of Artemis And thou shalt be Watcher over Streets and harbours.

•[98] ... And thou wert suddenly amazed and sadist to thine own heart: “This would be a first capture worthy of Artemis.”

•[109] Artemis, Lady of Maidenhood, Slayer of Tityus, golden were thine arms and golden thy belt, and a golden car didst thou yoke, and golden bridles, goddess, didst thou put on thy deer.

•[233] For thee surely Proetus established two shrines, one of Artemis of Maidenhood for that thou dist gather for him his maiden daughters, when they were wandering over the Azanian hills; the other he founded in Lusa to Artemis the Gentle, because thou tookest from his daughters the spirit of wildness.

•[258] O Lady of Munychia, Watcher of Harbours, hail, Lady of Pherae! Let none disparage Artemis.

http://www.theoi.com/Text/CallimachusHymns1.html#a36

Proof that Artemis exists (from Callimachus - HYMN IV. TO DELOS):

•[228] So she spake and seated her beside the golden throne, even as a hunting hound of Artemis, which, when it hath ceased from the swift chase, sitteth by her feet, and its ears are erect, ever ready to receive the call of the goddess.

Proof that Artemis exists (from the Callimachus - HYMN V. ON THE BATH OF PALLAS):

•[93] ... And yet he shall be companion of the chase to great Artemis.

http://www.theoi.com/Text/CallimachusHymns2.html

Proof that Artemis exists (from Sophocles - Electra):

•Ask the huntress Artemis what sin she punished when she stayed the frequent winds at Aulis; or I will tell thee; for we may not learn from her.

•Now by our lady Artemis, thou shalt not fail to pay for this boldness, so soon as Aegisthus returns.

•Nay, by ever-virgin Artemis, I will never stoop to fear women, stay-at-homes, vain burdens of the ground!

http://classics.mit.edu/Sophocles/electra.html

Proof that Artemis exists (from The History of Herodotus - Book II):

•The Bubastis of the Egyptians is the same as the Artemis (Diana) of the Greeks.

http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.mb.txt

Proof that Artemis exists (from PAUSANIAS - i):

•[1.1.4] The Athenians have also another harbor, at Munychia, with a temple of Artemis of Munychia, and yet another at Phalerum, as I have already stated, and near it is a sanctuary of Demeter.

•[1.14.5] ... This is the victory of which I am of opinion the Athenians were proudest; while Aeschylus, who had won such renown for his poetry and for his share in the naval battles before Artemisium and at Salamis, recorded at the prospect of death nothing else, and merely wrote his name, his father's name, and the name of his city, and added that he had witnesses to his valor in the grove at Marathon and in the Persians who landed there.

http://www.theoi.com/Text/Pausanias1A.html

•[1.19.6] Across the Ilisus is a district called Agrae and a temple of Artemis Agrotera (the Huntress). They say that Artemis first hunted here when she came from Delos, and for this reason the statue carries a bow.

•[1.21.3] ... This also has a tripod over it, wherein are Apollo and Artemis slaying the children of Niobe.

•[1.23.7] I remember looking at other things also on the Athenian Acropolis, a bronze boy holding the sprinkler, by Lycius son of Myron, and Myron's Perseus after beheading Medusa. There is also a sanctuary of Brauronian Artemis; the image is the work of Praxiteles, but the goddess derives her name from the parish of Brauron. The old wooden image is in Brauron, the Tauric Artemis as she is called.

•[1.26.4] Near the statue of Olympiodorus stands a bronze image of Artemis surnamed Leucophryne, dedicated by the sons of Themistocles; for the Magnesians, whose city the King had given him to rule, hold Artemis Leucophryne in honor.

•[1.29.2] ... As you go down to it you come to a precinct of Artemis, and wooden images of Ariste (Best) and Calliste (Fairest). In my opinion, which is supported by the poems of Pamphos, these are surnames of Artemis.

http://www.theoi.com/Text/Pausanias1B.html

•[1.31.1] ... At Alimus is a sanctuary of Demeter Lawgiver and of the Maid, and at Zoster (Girdle) on the coast is an altar to Athena, as well as to Apollo, to Artemis and to Leto.

•[1.31.4] Such is the legend. Phlya and Myrrhinus have altars of Apollo Dionysodotus, Artemis Light-bearer, Dionysus Flower-god, the Ismenian nymphs and Earth, whom they name the Great goddess;

•[1.31.5] Athmonia worships Artemis Amarysia.

•[1.33.1] XXXIII. At some distance from Marathon is Brauron, where, according to the legend, Iphigenia, the daughter of Agamemnon, landed with the image of Artemis when she fled from the Tauri; leaving the image there she came to Athens also and afterwards to Argos. There is indeed an old wooden image of Artemis here, but who in my opinion have the one taken from the foreigners I will set forth in another place.

•[1.36.1] XXXVI. But I will return to my subject. In Salamis is a sanctuary of Artemis, and also a trophy erected in honor of the victory which Themistocles the son of Neocles won for the Greeks.

•[1.38.6] The Eleusinians have a temple of Triptolemus, of Artemis of the Portal, and of Poseidon Father, and a well called Callichorum (Lovely dance), where first the women of the Eleusinians danced and sang in praise of the goddess.

•[1.40.2] Not far from this fountain is an ancient sanctuary, and in our day likenesses stand in it of Roman emperors, and a bronze image is there of Artemis surnamed Saviour. is a story that a detachment of the army of Mardonius, having over run Megaris, wished to return to Mardonius at Thebes, but that by the will of Artemis night came on them as they marched, and missing their way they turned into the hilly region.

•[1.40.3] ... For this reason they had an image made of Artemis Saviour. Here are also images of the gods named the Twelve, said to be the work of Praxiteles. But the image of Artemis herself was made by Strongylion.

•[1.41.3] Not far from the tomb of Hyllus is a temple of Isis, and beside it one of Apollo and of Artemis.

• ...Alcathous therefore, son of Pelops, attacked the beast and overcame it, and when he came to the throne he built this sanctuary, surnaming Artemis Agrotera (Huntress) and Apollo Agraeus (Hunter).

•[1.41.6] ...Let so much suffice for Alcathous and for the lion, whether it was on Cithaeron or elsewhere that the killing took place that caused him to make a temple to Artemis Agrotera and Apollo Agraeus.

•[1.43.1] ... Now I have heard another account of Iphigenia that is given by Arcadians and I know that Hesiod, in his poem A Catalogue of Women, says that Iphigenia did not die, but by the will of Artemis is Hecate.

• ... A sanctuary of Artemis was made by Agamemnon when he came to persuade Calchas, who dwelt in Megara, to accompany him to Troy.

•[1.44.2] In it is a noteworthy Apollo, Artemis also, and Leto, and other statues, made by Praxiteles.

•[1.44.4] In Pagae a noteworthy relic is a bronze image of Artemis surnamed Saviour, in size equal to that at Megara and exactly like it in shape.

http://www.theoi.com/Text/Pausanias1C.html

Proof that Artemis exists (from PAUSANIAS - vii):

•[7.2.6] ... The sanctuary of Apollo at Didymi, and his oracle, are earlier than the immigration of the Ionians, while the cult of Ephesian Artemis is far more ancient still than their coming.

•[7.6.6] ... A likeness of this Adrastus in bronze was dedicated in front of the sanctuary of Persian Artemis by the Lydians, who wrote an inscription to the effect that Adrastus died fighting for the Greeks against Leonnatus.

http://www.theoi.com/Text/Pausanias7A.html

•[7.18.8] On the acropolis of Patrae is a sanctuary of Artemis Laphria.

•[7.18.9] ... It is said that the goddess was surnamed Laphria after a man of Phocis, because the ancient image of Artemis was set up at Calydon by Laphrius, the son of Castalius, the son of Delphus.

•[7.18.10] Others say that the wrath of Artemis against Oeneus weighed as time went on more lightly (elaphroteron) on the Calydonians, and they believe that this was why the goddess received her surname.

•[7.18.11] Every year too the people of Patrae celebrate the festival Laphria in honor of their Artemis, and at it they employ a method of sacrifice peculiar to the place.

•[7.18.12] The festival begins with a most splendid procession in honor of Artemis, and the maiden officiating as priestess rides last in the procession upon a car yoked to deer.

•[7.19.1] The Ionians who lived in Aroe, Antheia and Mesatis had in common a precinct and a temple of Artemis surnamed Triclaria, and in her honor the Ionians used to celebrate every year a festival and an all-night vigil.

•[7.19.3] The history of Melanippus, like that of many others, proved that love is apt both to break the laws of men and to desecrate the worship of the gods, seeing that this pair had their fill of the passion of love in the sanctuary of Artemis.

• ... Forthwith the wrath of Artemis began to destroy the inhabitants; the earth yielded no harvest, and strange diseases occurred of an unusually fatal character.

• ... The oracle ordered that they themselves should be sacrificed to Artemis, and that every year a sacrifice should be made to the goddess of the fairest youth and the fairest maiden.

•[7.19.6] The sacrifice to Artemis of human beings is said to have ceased in this way.

•[7.20.1] It was in this way that they used to array of old those whom they led to be sacrificed to Artemis.

•[7.20.7] ... Opposite the marketplace by this exit is a precinct and temple of Artemis, the Lady of the Lake.

•[7.24.1] XXIV. By the market-place at Aegium is a temple shared by Apollo and Artemis in common; and in the market-place there is a sanctuary of Artemis, who is represented in the act of shooting an arrow, and also the grave of Talthybius the herald.

•[7.26.3] The Hyperesians gave their city its present name of Aegeira from the goats (aiges), and where the most beautiful goat, which led the others, crouched, they built a sanctuary of Artemis the Huntress, believing that the trick against the Sicyonians was an inspiration of Artemis.

•[7.26.5] There is also a temple of Artemis, with an image of the modern style of workmanship.

•[7.26.11] ... There are sanctuaries of Dionysus and of Artemis.

•[7.27.3] Above the temple of Athena is a grove, surrounded by a wall, of Artemis surnamed Saviour, by whom they swear their most solemn oaths.

•[7.27.4] Near the sanctuary of Apollo is a temple of Artemis, the goddess being represented in the attitude of shooting.

http://www.theoi.com/Text/Pausanias7B.html

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Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So now you have the right to live outside of Hell?.........................................

Side: Theism
4 points

There is no concrete proof of God's existence. Even the Bible says, "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6). Of course He could prove His existence in a moment if He so desired, but He wants us to come to Him because we want to by faith, not because we can no longer deny His existence.

He has proven His existence in MY life, by answering prayer and performing miracles. And for me, further proof of His existence lies in the minute details that add vitality to all life -- for example, how fragile, yet so perfectly complex, our minds and nervous systems are; or how every little thing serves some purpose in keeping our atmospheres so balanced.

If you're looking for the reason for suffering, why some starve and why others do not, if you're looking for the perfect world -- well, God gave us one and we ruined it by sinning against Him. And even before that, Lucifer created the possibility for sin by attempting to overthrow God. God created us all with freewill -- so why does He need to come down and fix all of our problems on a whim when He never created them, and when we have the means to do it ourselves, but apparently lack the willpower?

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

If God leaves you to fry like an eternal sausage in Hell, will that prove He exists? No. But it will prove Hell is hot.

Side: Atheism
3 points

I just think our whole expectation and concept of God is out of whack, causing us to believe or disbelieve in something out of our comprehension. If God does exist, the facts of it's existence is altered by man anyway. There's no definite way to know. Materialism is like a form of faith...people put every ounce of belief in it without questioning a thing.

Side: Theism

God is real. If not, how were we created? How were our ancestors created? How were the forests, seas and skies created? God created the heavens and the earth. He created the universe where all the planets are created. In the Bible's first chapter, it explains how everything was made and how our world developed.

Supporting Evidence: Genesis: the First Book of the Bible (www.biblegateway.com)
Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Quoting bible is as valid agrument as citing Harry Potter .

Side: Atheism
hailsroxy(42) Disputed
1 point

There's this thing called the BIG BANG and you should probably look it up. You can't prove that the bible are the words of God. And you also obviously didn't go to school and learn the required subject of SCIENCE.

Side: Atheism
dadoubean(1) Disputed
0 points

There is proof of the Big Bang, but how do you know it actually happened? There are numerous creation theories, though Big Bang has the most evidence. How could you prove something wrong if you don't have evidence to go against the argument that God created everything? You can't use science theories like the Big Bang against this argument because there isn't sufficient evidence to prove the Big Bang as a fact. Use solid science facts against it instead.

Side: Atheism
UpForDebate(25) Clarified
1 point

I'm gonna tell you this as kindly as possible. I too am a theist, but this is a very...sad argument. If you use this argument in a real debate, atheists will chew you up and spit you out.

Side: Theism
3 points

there is no doubt that god exits he does and always will even if people think he does not exits than they should even answer us that how were they made and if once life ends will they be just sleeping if commonsense is used than it's easy to understand

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
3 points

If you used any common sense you would understand that you had nothing to come up with than your own beliefs. Do you have any agrument that support your beliefs? Afterlife? Sure, do you have any evidence for the afterlife. Did god made you? Or did you parents made you?

Why is it important for you to "live" after you die? No, nobody sleeps. People are just dissolved into atomes and molecyles they are made of for other life to use. Simple and insignificant. Maybe difficult for you to understand that you are not "special god child", but your life should not be worse for that. On the contrary, it will help you be a better person if you understand that your person is what you make it and not what somebody else (god) made you to be. If more people understand that, maybe it would be much less suffering on this planet.

Side: Atheism
wondo0802(17) Disputed
3 points

well then, can you prove there are no afterlife? And how do you know afterlife would be like that; being atoms or something. I don't get it. why wouldn't there be less suffering if everyone believed there were no god? At least the ones who believe are happy. have you ever tried believing a religion or are you just spewing all this stuff out of your head?

Side: Theism
UpForDebate(25) Clarified
1 point

Like I said to the other guy, this is a very sad argument. You are gonna get torn up in the real world. You want to make your point and win, right? Well, you are failing. I recommend learning a bit more about debate then coming back. I hope you continue to make points (And this time good ones). I hate to seem rude, for I am on your side, but this argument just won't cut it out there.

Side: Theism
3 points

In the case of people suffering... people suffer all the time, there is no denying that. It is possible that God has created these individuals for the sole purpose of testing others, correct? and perhaps they even go to heaven or they died because they would have committed evil, or perhaps it was just their time to go. people will die regardless, that is the only certainty in this world. So when people are suffering, perhaps it is up for us, the fortunate to help them out instead of being greedy and self absorbent.

Now, thermodynamics can also be used to prove a higher deity. I have seen many professors do so, this is a well acknowledged fact.

Also, there is a misconception going around that religious people ( i am Muslim btw) despise science and that we are bigots of sorts. Many Muslims have been great contributors to the advancement of science, mathematics, culture, education, philosophical ideas, and many more subjects. And, the idea of micro-evolution does not go against Islam's idea. same with physics, chemistry, biology or anything else.

Regarding the ancestry of apes theory, it is true that they are very similar to us.. no one should disagree with that, but we are also very similar to bananas too.. our DNA is 60-80% the same.

Thank you, I look forward to hearing your replies.

Peace

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
3 points

It is possible that God has created these individuals for the sole purpose of testing others, correct?

Whauh! :) No it is not correct. First you seem to be talking about Judaism/Christianity/Islam where there is notion of god creating people. According to those religions all people are created equal, so your theory is in direct contradiction to those religions. Furthermore god made Adam & Eve to be perfect yet they become evil and didn't obey him, so obviously evilness was not what he meant in his creation if you are to believe to religion. Yet another proof that religion is wrong. Also it shows your own arrogance, which is a form of evil because you are putting yourself on a pedestal and proclaiming yourself to be a "fortunate" by which you mean "better" than those "evil" people.

Now, thermodynamics can also be used to prove a higher deity. I have seen many professors do so, this is a well acknowledged fact. :-) Show us works of those.

Also, there is a misconception going around that religious people ( i am Muslim btw) despise science and that we are bigots of sorts. No there is not. You religious people are by definition retards because you can't believe in your own logic and moral, but need somebody else to tell you what to do.

Many Muslims have been great contributors to the advancement of science, mathematics, culture, education, philosophical ideas, and many more subjects. And, the idea of micro-evolution does not go against Islam's idea. same with physics, chemistry, biology or anything else. It is true that people from middle east, Africa, India and some other currently Muslim countries has contributed a lot to science. But mostly it was before Islam. Sole purpose of science goes against Islam, and other religions so you are either a bad believer, or a bad scientist.

Regarding the ancestry of apes theory, it is true that they are very similar to us.. no one should disagree with that, but we are also very similar to bananas too.. our DNA is 60-80% the same.Yes, I am glad you have recognized yourself as a banana so I don't have to point that out for for you. Maybe you move to some banana republic so you can pray more to a banana god to make you even more fortune in the future so some banana dictature with support of that banana god can peel even more decency and humanity off of you.

Side: Atheism
3 points

Yes I do .

We all do! For we are all part God !

Universe!!!

Side: Theism
3 points

I don't think it's a specific "being." Even if it started from nothing, that nothing itself could be what god is. Perhaps he's nothing, either way it is irrelevant.

Side: Theism
3 points

god does exist ..... he/ she was a person who had extra powers and therefore we call him/her god or goddess :)

Side: Theism
3 points

So who created us then can't be yourself god is the only powerful and true god there is so back off Adventist to the worl!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Side: Theism
3 points

Without a doubt!

The arguments for the doubters include:

-The fine tuning argument

-The Kalam argument

-Objective morality

These are just three of several strong arguments

Side: Theism
3 points

There is no doubt that God exist. God is the ultimate and infinite cause of all things, and will always explain the universe, life, and intelligent human beings.

Side: Theism
hailsroxy(42) Disputed
1 point

You cannot physically prove that, there is too much evidence of the big bang, evolution, etc.

Side: Atheism
1 point

Yes yes*

Side: Atheism
3 points

Without a doubt. And there are strong a priori arguments to verify this. They include objective morality, cosmological argument, and fine tuning.

Side: Theism
Cartman(18192) Disputed
3 points

Objective morality doesn't exist.

The cosmological argument doesn't help you. The start of the universe does not have to be because of God.

No evidence of fine tuning.

Side: Atheism
3 points

GOD exists but he is suffering from Alzheimer's....maybe he could use his ....omnipotence to find a cure.....

Side: Theism
1 point

Yes yes*

Side: Atheism
3 points

I like these quotes from some of the worlds smartest men:

Sir Isaac Newton

"He must be blind who from the most wise and excellent contrivances of things cannot see the Infinite Wisdom and goodness of their Almighty Creator, and he must be mad and senseless who refuses to acknowledge them" (And people claim he was an Atheist! Shows what they know)

C.B. Anfinsen, Ph.D. (Bio-chemistry, Harvard), Nobel Prize winner in Chemistry, put it more succinctly whe he wrote, "I think only an idiot can be an atheist"

- Albert Einstein

"“The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.”

- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)

Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry

“The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.”

- Max Planck

(founder of the quantum theory and one of the most important physicists of the twentieth century)

“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”

- Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics) Tipler, F.J. 1994. The Physics Of Immortality. New York, Doubleday, Preface.

“When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics.”

Sir Fred Hoyle, a famous UK astronomer, wrote:

"A super intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology … The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number of 10 with 40 thousand noughts (zeros) after it. It is enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of Evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random they must therefore have been the product of a purposeful intelligence," (Nature: vol.294:105, Nov 12 1981).

Side: Theism
3 points

If God was not real, how was the earth created from nothing. After all, the Catholic Bible says that God created all from nothing. If it was written in a book, shouldn't it be true??

Side: Theism
ant1greeny(5) Disputed
4 points

I agree with you about "How was the Earth created from nothing?"

But does god explain this?

How was god created from nothing?

& how did he magic up a universe in 7 days!?

At least the Big Bang doesn't imply the universe as we know today was completely formed in a ridiculously short time!

It was written in a book, so you believe it?

There are many books about the Big Bang, but both theories cannot be true.

No-one is alive today who witnessed events in the bible or the bible being written, so who is to say it isn't a fictional book that got out of hand & people took seriously?

As for word of mouth down from generations, how do you know it isn't a myth like Big Foot or the Lockness Monster (I'm aware I probably spelt Lockness wrong).

Side: Atheism
RightWing11(40) Disputed
2 points

Hey, God was not created. God has always been exisent, same as his son, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I quote the old carol, O come all ye faithful, when I say,

"He was begotten, not created."

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"

Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.

If God exists who is man to question Him. Who is man to demand proof or to demand anything from God.

If He is content to create us, then shouldn't us existing be our lot in life. If we are just assembled then what is soul and what is conscience?

Besides humanity what other species has a conscience.

Conscience is right or wrong. Well you can train right and wrong.

You can train a mouse the right way through the maze to get the cheese.

You can train a dog to obey and do tricks.

Dog lovers they love you! Right? Sure they have an instinct that considers you part of the pack. They have loyalty and they live to please you, and look quilts when they tear up your couch cushions.

God made animals and brought them to Adam and no suitable help mate or companion was like him. So God made animals and even offered them as companions and help mates, but He said not suitable to be like him.

The dog does love you, but there is not really conscience, there is instinct. And the guilt he feels is a conditioned response to the reaction of displeasure he is aware of when you come in. Or he is aware every time he does this behavior it brings displeasure.

But conscience isn't just instinct. It isn't even a conditioned response.

Our consciences exist independently. We are born with a conscience, we become aware of it as we grow.

Conscience is either dulled or made sensitive.

But it existed before being molded.

Conscience can be effected by disease or environment.

But these factors have to alter the conscience we are born with.

Every decission made affecting conscience that is made in the mind isn't an act of conscience.

An act is taken disregarding conscience or in light of conscience.

Example Hitler actions weren't a result of conscience, they were a result of depravity of conscience.

Whatever was put in or pushed through Hitler was an act of depravity silencing his conscience.

Pharoah in the Moses story " let my people go" is a Bible example of a hardened heart, or conscience. A conscience can be dulled to the point of depravity. But still we all have 1.

I'm sure there was even a line Hitler wouldn't cross because of whatever was left of his conscience. Maybe he was dull there was no line left.

The question is, Did the big bang send our consciences?

What else in creation has a conscience?

A conscience can haunt someone, nag at someone, cause guilt, or justice, or cause freedom, take a stand, or take a fall.

Its something that can feel.

Its something that attaches emotion to our actions and our choices. It is the why and the motive of the heart not of the head.

Its the final say when making a list of available choices when consequences have a deeper effect than eating a piece of cake or a piece of fruit.

Our consciences isn't our preferences or our likes and dislikes.

Its a place inside that feels the choice. A piece of cake could be conscience if it's someone else's cake, or if your on a diet and cheating.

But see its a feeling about the action.

Most of us don't feel anything about our piece of cake.

Now if it's double chocolate and makes you think of mom, and you remember how you hurt her when you ran away, thats conscience.

If there is not a God then how do we exclusively have a conscience?

The Bible says God breathed life into the man and he was created a living soul.

It also says God wrote the law on our consciences so no one would have an excuse.

The 1st act of wronged conscience was Adam and Eve hiding in the garden. There is no need to hide if your conscience has nothing to hide.

Man can hide things for years because of conscience. Can any other created thing carry that weight within themselves?

Is man truely unique in creation?

The Bible says Let Us make Man in Our Image

US is the Trinity

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Conscience is unique to man.

If you say conscience is conditioning, well just like the 1st act of creation was a burst of light or black hole of gravity, and the question never answered who created that 1st reaction.

Isnt nothing even something. If something didn't exist how then can nothing exist?

So if conscience was created by conditioning who set up the 1st conscience?

And if man isn't unique then what other creatures have also learned conscience? And after you tell me about those creatures tell me how they passed conscience on to their dependents?

Evan the ape has instinct, but is instinct and conscience the same thing?

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
0 points

Middle Earth is in LOTR ...so it must exist .

Side: Atheism
3 points

People don't have to believen GOD it is whether your religion believes in him or they don't. Some people don't follow there religion really it just matters what a person believes. THERE IS KNOW RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION PEOPLE CAN BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY WANT! NO ONE EVER SAID PEOPLE DONT HAVE A CHOICE!

Side: Theism
3 points

People don't have to believen GOD it is whether your religion believes in him or they don't. Some people don't follow there religion really it just matters what a person believes. THERE IS KNOW RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION PEOPLE CAN BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY WANT! NO ONE EVER SAID PEOPLE DONT HAVE A CHOICE!

Side: Theism
3 points

Yes, God will excess you know why? Look at the sorounding iknow God was created all those things.For example you as a human who make your life who will arranges the inside and outside of your body.No one can do that except God alone.

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

Lovely argument from ignorance, "I don't know how stuff works, therefore magic"

Side: Atheism
3 points

Well this one day I was at a river.. I wanted to get to the other side.. I was so helpless.. I didn't know what to do.. suddenly as I was starring at the water.. a few pieces of wood just appeared then I noticed a few nails in the river.. the pieces of wood and nails came together and suddenly a boat was just made out of nowhere and I was able to cross the river.. how ridiculous do I sound to you at this point?

Side: Theism
3 points

WATCH THIS VIDEO THEN DECIDE

I HOPE YOU WATCH IT CAREFULLY

Supporting Evidence: WATCH THIS VIDEO THEN DECIDE (www.facebook.com)
Side: Theism
3 points

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn557DPAtfg

watch this and thing do you really have this Quinton

cause the answer is already knew..

Side: Theism
3 points

I think a higher being exists, someone who patterned everything and made it possible.

Side: Theism
3 points

well look at it this way. if god is not real then why is there no evidence to support it?

explain the conscience? explain shame? better yet explain feelings

you can't say it is supernatural because god is of the supernatural along with his creations right? so if it is not supernatural but can't be explained by natural means then what is feeling? e.g. love shame, anger

explain how the universe started in a more scientific way then "a bunch of random stuff happened."

try to explain it without god or something supernatural.

and human suffering is not through god's will but through our own correct? we are the ones suffering not god. we are the ones that can neglect other people's suffering, and we are the ones that can save them from it.

so therefore god is fulfilling what he said about our free will. and mankind has the potential to do good to others and to himself.

Side: Theism
3 points

One cannot possibly look at the universe around them and claim that it was a mere coincidence, or that nobody created this beautiful system.

Side: Theism
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

I believe it is a set of mere coincidences with a mechanism to keep good coincidences. No being created this beautiful system.

Boom, proved you wrong.

Side: Atheism
RightWing11(40) Disputed
0 points

It was hard not to smile at your attempt to prove Christianity wrong: How does your opinion prove others' opinions wrong? XD

Side: Theism
3 points

It takes much more faith to believe that nothing just exploded and created everything than to believe that God simply managed it all.

I feel sorry for you atheists who have to believe that you are nothing but an animal. Well you can be ano evolved monkey if you want I know I was created by God and that he has a personal relationship with me.

Side: Theism
TrumpsHair(310) Clarified
2 points

It takes much more faith to believe that nothing just exploded and created everything than to believe that God simply managed it all.

How so?

Side: Theism
EchoNova1(21) Clarified
2 points

He is pretty much saying that he even thinks that it's hard to believe that if you put your faith in God, then everything that God promises will happen and he is Christian. But when we say faith we are accepting God into our life, giving God our souls to protect. We live for God.

Side: Theism
3 points

It all comes down to a leap of faith. Atheists put their faith in that matter appeared out of nowhere to cause the big bang. Theists put their faith in that God has and will always exist. Scientist will tell you that, things do not just sporadically materialise into existence by themselves yet somehow they put this as a cornerstone for the creation of the universe? I agree that it is difficult to put blind faith into believing in a creator but it seems even more difficult to believe that atoms mysteriously materialise out of nowhere and magically collide into each other perfectly to cause the universe. Surely it makes more sense that even if you do not believe in the Christian God that a higher being created the world, otherwise you believe that, although it has never happened since or will ever happen again in the future, things are created by themselves.

Side: Theism
2 points

If God doesn't exist, then who is the creator? will you say the natural forces? Natural laws?... who made these natural laws? Everything has a creator, and the Creator is "God".

Side: Theism
2 points

In today's modern society, everybody has an answer to every question. If one was to ask 'How is anything on Earth possible if not brought possible by the grace of God?' The answer would be simple: SCIENCE. I understand why people may not believe in God for the simple fact that if there is a God, why has God chosen to bring: famine,poverty,crime,violence and endless other things that makes us lose hope in humanity each and every day but God did not ask you to go and commit a crime, God did not ask you to spend your money on funding a war that seems to never end, God never asked you to start a war which resulted in war,famine and poverty. God has blessed you with all the things you need to stop these things. God has given a functioning brain to use for good, to come up with new and improved ways to help one another. You were never given a brain to invent weapons but to fight against disease like Cancer and Ebola. We could all sit there at our computers screen or our mobile phones and blame God for the things that we as humans have caused but at the end of the day, the world is still the same place it was before you started typing. Only us as humans have the ability to get up and change the world that we are so unhappy about that we have resorted to blaming God because we gave up on trying to fix it.

Side: Theism
2 points

Just look at our society in America since Liberal Democrats decided to wage war against our Christian heritage and traditional values 60 years ago.

If you are honest and look at our divorce rates, our broken homes, the numbers of foster kids and gang members, the drug addictions, un wed mothers, our debt problems, swollen welfare roles, etc. then there can be no other conclusion. The goal of Liberals to separate any mention of God in our public places has truly hurt America. That is not proof of God but it truly shows how a culture will degrade when you censor any mention of God from a nation's public square. Please don't try to compare our Christain heritage to the religions of hate around the world.

Side: Theism
2 points

Personally, I would rather believe in a God and then find out I was wrong all along, than disbelieve God's existence and then get thrown in to the lake of fire. Who's with me for not getting thrown into the sulphur lake? Show of hands please!

Side: Theism
2 points

God's existence is proven using a number of rational inductions and watertight deductions, including and especially the modal ontological argument by Alvin Plantinga.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

I had to look up your whole sentence LOL!

You must be brainy!

Thanks for mentioning it, I hadn't heard of it before.

I love this easy to understand clip I have linked showing

the Modal Ontological Argument by Alvin Plantinga.

I love the logic to answer absurd arguements mentioned in the video are arguments commonly given. And they leave me thinking "duh that's a ridiculous argument" not apples to apples. They points are crude, undefined, unthought out nonsense arguments that leave me feeling like there is no intellegent work in their answers to disprove the existence of God by people who use broad strokes taught to them in evolution and nonsense argument when it comes to and how did the 1st speck appear?

http://www.strangenotions.com/is-the-modal-ontological-argument-for-god-a-sound-proof/

So I was really glad to hear this argument because it comes down to a bottom line that clearly compares ridiculous to logical. So now I can put that feeling to words and show them why their argument is ridiculous compared to a true logical answer.

Supporting Evidence: Video Proves God! The Modal Ontological Argument (www.strangenotions.com)
Side: Atheism
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Sorry, but premise 1 is faulty. There is no way of knowing if God is actually possible.

Side: Theism

To a Theist, God does exist and his/her Faith cannot shake their Faith.

Side: Theism
2 points

God undoubtedly exists, many years before Jesus Christ's birth there were written prophecies. 300 of them were full-filled. You do realise thats like a bunch of people singing religious songs decades before your birth claiming *50. That is a pretty slim chance. This could even be referred to as a miracle; what is god capable of performing. Right. Miracles. I speak with substance: These prophecies have been dated by Scientists and professionals alike to have existed long before Christ himself. That is JUST christianity. It is merely a molecule of (NaCl) in this vast ocean.

Side: Theism
2 points

There is already proof that god exist, the bible, saints, miracles, And tell me what proofs that god doesn't exist GOD IS REAL HE IS THE FATHER THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

Side: Theism
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

There are inconsistencies in the Bible making it suspect as a piece of evidence. Saints are just nice people. Miracles are natural occurrences. The Bible provides several explanations that cannot be backed up with scientific data. Fossils, DNA, and geology all show the accounts in the Bible are false.

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Can you share the inconsistencies?

I don't see any inconsistencies and no contradictions

Side: Theism
1 point

I believe, there is a great a supernatural power who controls everything, named as god. There are many problems in the day to day life but that is part of life and you cant blame God for that. It is rightly said that, Hard work is the key to success; therefore the one who doesn't believe in hard work is the poor and you cat blame God for that problem. If the natural disasters is the main point then as the name suggests it is natural, so God is not responsible. God helps us at all times. He gives you what you ask for. If the complaint is that he gives it to you late, then remember that he doesn't punish you for your sins immediately either. If there was no god then what do you think, who created the earth, our universe, It was God. However science exists. There are all the laws and everything. All of it is right but I still believe in GOD. Believe in god and live a happy life.

Side: Theism
1 point

I.................................................................................................................... want to debate. One on one with an atheist

Side: Theism
1 point

of course he does, he is non-existing, therefore asking whether or not he exists is pointless. You cannot ask if an incorporeal thing exists, since by its definition, it does not.

Side: Theism
1 point

It depends on what you define 'God' as. If you believe that one superior being created the entire universe there is much skepticism towards that. Especially since if you listen to theoretical physicists they can explain how we might be a branch universe, of a multiple universe system.

If you believe that 'God' is an alien life form who gave resources to individuals on planet earth, so these aliens were portrayed to less technological civilizations as a superior being, well that seems to be a much more rational ideation.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

https://youtu.be/mG37ysdWLWc

This is entertaining

Weigh the evidence!

Side: Atheism
1 point

God is real! He is the creator of mankind and He loves you.

You were created by Him and He knows everything about you.

You were made to have a relationship with God.

We were created to have a relationship with God. But that relationship was broken when we disobeyed God.

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23

God is perfect, we are not.

Since perfection is unobtainable for us that made God unobtainable. Sin separates us from God.

Since God is the source of life separation from Him means death.

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23

Jesus came to save us.

God fixed this and He sent His Son in order to pay the penalty for our sins.

Now through faith in Jesus Christ our relationship with God can be restored. Our sins can be forgiven and we can have eternal life.

I believe, but now what?

The forgiveness of sins is not by works, it is a free gift based on what Jesus did for us.We receive His forgiveness by placing our faith and trust in Him.

“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

Side: Theism
1 point

for all you atheist you are not possibly to expect that your gonna win this debate there is and has always been a higher being which we call god and he will always be there

Side: Theism
1 point

God is in fact real. The world cant just be entirely based on science. The bible couldn't just have popped out of no where. It had to come from somewhere, like for example, God. Just cause theres no proof doesn't mean that its not true. For example, if one sister stole a toy from the younger sister, began to play with it, and put it back in the toy bin, there would've been no proof that the older sister ever took the toy from the younger sister's hands. The older sister could've just said that the younger sister never took it out of the bin. Many crimes are like this. There wasn't enough proof, but many people knew who did it. I can see how people don't believe in God, because I once that he wasn't real and he was just someone to look to for hope. However, now I know that God is always watching over me and he cares for me. I'm not trying to convince anyone to start seeing the light(even though I recommend it), I'm just simply stating my opinion.

Side: Theism
1 point

Ahh...this is the ultimate question, isn't it? Do we exist with a plan, with a purpose, or are we just bunches of matter walking around?

I think the very fact that we are able to muse about such things is in and of itself some decently solid evidence towards a creator.

Look around you. Look at something as simple as a leaf on a tree, and what do you see? Maybe not much, but if you think about the complexity of each different cycle going on inside that tiny leaf, if you think about photosynthesis or the krebs cycle or even the structure of one tiny cell, you might wonder how on earth that happened 'by chance'. That's like spilling paint on a piece of paper and re-creating the Mona Lisa. Sure, it happened again and again as time went on and mistakes were corrected, but the complexity of the world around us simply cannot just be made by accident after accident as time bumbles along. Writing a strand of DNA by chance is about as likely as sitting a very well-behaved monkey at a computer and watching as it hits the keyboard randomly and manages to recreate Webster's Encyclopedia (five times in a row). Now sure, it can hit the backspace button as many times as it wants to and take a billion zillion years to do it, but it's still SO UNLIKELY. Now that's just ONE DNA STRAND. Factor in the (roughly) seven trillion cells in your body, each with six strands of DNA that need to be written and coded, and you've got yourself a heck of an endeavor. Sorry mister monkey, but I don't think it's happening. You need an intelligent designer such as Noah Webster if you want something other than a mess of letters all jumbled together.

Side: Theism
1 point

An intelligent design seems to be the answer based upon the many facts which support it. Intelligent design goes into the irreducibly complex systems which were created and from these systems, it may be concluded that no god would be a foolish viewpoint because the idea of humans, or any other specimen, coming from nonliving matter and over millions of years coincidentally falling into place to work perfectly is a statement which is both ridiculous and ludicrous.

Side: Theism
1 point

god is not a figure whom we imagine as ..he is the supreme power who has created this universe and there are superstitions based on that. the whole universe is created with a power and the nature around us is the creation of that power ..so yes there is god because we have named that power as god.

Side: Theism
1 point

Everyone knows there is a God. Its choosing to know or not.

Creation itself shows God exists. Nothing jumped into existence.

Even the Creation story itself may answer some atheist views.

When I recently looked at the Genesis story, it occurred to me that

Each day wasn't a day as we know it. So it makes sense to have long

term growth of vegetation and then all of a sudden have creation jump into being on days 5 and 6.

So maybe a fresh look for the agnostic or even the atheist may cause a few questions or explanations that weren't thought of in their decisions.

Some are atheists because they don't want to believe their accountable, it's a matter of convenience to remove God. "The Santa idea, he knows when we are naughty"

Their denial of religion and of God have been formed by their views that they conclude mostly from avoiding God and avoiding thoughts that may challenge their convenient truth, and make their view without actually giving it some independent thorough investigation.

So willing to accept He doesn't exist, and argue He doesn't exist.

But very little if any on weighing the data that suggests He may actually exist. Its a 'convenient truth' to them, and its left unchallenged with a smug prove He exists but no responsibility to prove He doesn't.

Because they dont understand spiritual things they don't believe could exist, like a God who allows evil to exist, or pain, or will judge sin one day.

So the atheist hasn't given much thought on why or how God exists, their focus is on ignoring any details that my otherwise show that He does exist.

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Throwing millions of years in between the days in Genesis is completely un-Biblical and unnecessary and casts doubt on the entire Bible. The way you are trying to blend millions of years implies the Bible is not true at all.

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

It goes in line with faith and science

And doesn't really matter in regards to our Salvation.

But it may help in discussing with "atheist" that God is undeniable you still have nature jumping into being on day 5 and 6. The 1st 2 24 hour days. Which makes perfect sense because even atheist can't explain that jumping into being.

And as far as firmament that makes sense too.

"And water canopy makes real sense with the flood!

The sky's emptied of all that water and covered the earth.

Sounds very likely! So yeah thanks that's cool.

Scientifically there is data showing this time line that questions

God by atheists. Well if nature was going for whatever equivalent

of a day, whether it be 1000 years or 10,000 years is irrelevant.but

it also answers creation all of a sudden jumping into being. Even atheists have a difficult time explaining what we know happened

on day 5 or 6. So day 5 and 6 explain immediate presense of fish, birds, man, and animals.

Its actually not easily disputable in that light.

And the garden was separate to the "East"

So animals weren't confined to the garden.

And I'm not sure long Adam and Eve were in the garden.

But this is a logical explainion showing the world growing with forming vegetation and maybe even crawling bugs etc that are needed to reproduce vegetation. Maybe maybe not, He doesn't mention bugs in day 5 or day 6.

As far as expanse or firmament it offer a similar explanation, it still adds form to the earth suggesting it is round.

So then water separated by sky or atmosphere

So if you want to add space

Side: Theism
1 point

What strikes me about the accounts of the writers in the Bible is how cohesive and intelligent they were. They were like prodigies of modern knowledge and education and skills. Look at Creation 1st

The Creation in Genesis.

There was not a "24 hour period" until day 4

Day 1 God made Heavens and the Earth.

The Universe. It was formless void and dark. Made up mostly of water with dark space over the surface of the water.

The earth was floating in the Universe not spinning. Floating as any rock in space. And it was a dark planet of water.

So on day 1 God made the universe and the world

It days the Spirit of God was roaming in the world over the waters.

Then God made light separated the world in 1/2 with darkness and light. Light He called good. Named light "day" and dark "night."

And that was day 1.

There is no time period for day 1 it could have been 1000 years or a 24 hour day as we know it. God is not governed by time. And He didnt create time as we know it till day 4.

So on day 1, time didn't exist. Each day says there was morning and evening but time didn't exist so light and dark were divided in 2, but they werent coordinatef by the world spinning, it tumbled as earth stood floating without rotation in space.

Day 2 God placed the core and earth in the middle of the world. Separating water from water. Water covered the firmanent.

So this gives the idea that the world is round. Because it separated the water in 1/2 around it. Since this move on day 2 didn't create a land mass visible then it separated the water in the middle. Like describing the core and grounds below the water.

Authors of genesis seemed to understood the world is round. Because the expanse placed in the middle of the water would disperse water all around it. And also day 2 time still didn't exist.

So this could have been our world floating with light and dark tumbling in a manner of something round floating.

3rd day God gathered the water together "and let the land appear.

The core with land elevations were exposed and then He let vegetation and growth occur. So some vegetation grew on the dark half, some grew on the light 1/2 of the world or there may have been shifting with light and darkness. Creating both vegetation that needs light and some that grow in darker climates.Or the tumbling was pretty even. God put in motion according to Genesis every seed reseeding producing more of its kind.

That was the 3rd day again time as we know it still doesn't exist.

4th day

God put everything in place for day and night stars, sun, moon.

And separated day from night. God placed the Sun Moon stars

and appointed the lower light to govern the night and the brighter

to govern the day, and made days weeks and years. The world started spinning and orbiting and God created time as we know it. And so time began.

5th day

God made the fish and birds of every kind and blessed them.

6th Animals of every kind after their kind. And also man and woman.

The days are spelled out with basic foundation as factual documentation, then the story of the days are expanded on and

told with greater details.

Its interesting the Garden was a designated area, God made man then went and planted the garden, and then the Lord put man into

it. But man was made from the ground dust outside the garden.

And God brought forth animals then made eve from out of man's side.

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

A day is a time period. The text clearly states it was a day. The mystery is imaginary, the text is plain and clear, and there is nothing that says Adam was made from dust outside of the garden before he was placed in the garden. Jesus quoited from Genesis implying it was not mysterious but rather plainly stated. We were not there, just read it and take it as it is from the hand of God. There is plenty of scientific facts supporting the literal six day Creation account and Noah's flood, there is no need to read into scripture things that are not there. What you'll end up doing is opening the door for more confusion and weakening your ability to present truth, casting doubt on the entire Bible by casting doubt on the Genesis account.

Side: Atheism
SlapShot(2608) Disputed
2 points

Oh really?

"there are plenty of scientific facts supporting a literal six-day Creation?"

Please.

I see this as a sign of disrespect to me and my knowledge on the topic of Biology and Evolution.

I cannot allow it, Saint.

So pray tell....share with us one of these alleged scientific facts!

And then watch as I totally destroy it.

And I will provide links if you like!

Go!

SS

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

The 1st 24 hour day was on day 4 a tally the 1st full day would have been on the 5 th day.

And I didn't say anything about millions of years

There is a scripture that says 1 day is as 1000 years, 1000 years as 1 day to the Lord.

So that's a statement God isn't governed by time.

He created time to govern our days not His days

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Day 4 God created time to begin.

Day night hours seasons years.

The earth started spinning this day!

14 Then God said, “Let there be [s]lights in the [t]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for [u]lights in the [v]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two [w]great lights, the greater [x]light [y]to govern the day, and the lesser [z]light [aa]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [ab]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [ac]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Chapter 20, verse 11 of Exodus clearly states God created all things in six days and rested on the seventh day. If you add millions of years, then you are changing the Bible to "God created all things in millions of years and a few days", and casting doubt on the entire Bible by implying it is open to personally tailored beliefs suiting whichever sinner is reading it.

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

It's like you have 1 verse and that is what you keep repeating.

Go to Gen 1. Take each verse and show me your points with other scriptures backing it

Side: Theism
1 point

The curse following also gets interesting as you follow it through Cain and Abel

Cain and Able shows something different.

There are often sons compared through the prophets.

Cain and Able

"When the LORD accepted Abel's offering but not Cain's the latter became angry. God warned Cain about potential sin. But even so, Cain murdered Abel." (Gen. 4:4-9)

And God cursed Cain ...

Remember when I said before God we will both stand?

One will stand in their own hard hard work trying to please God and the other will stand in God's merit.

God favored the devotion of Able over Cain's and it drove Cain to murder Able.

But why wouldn't God favor hard labor to please Him? Because the fruits of flesh is cursed. Even the first fruits of cursed flesh can't please God. Because we are born from the cursed ground our 1st fruits regarding anything we do cannot please God!

Gen 3

"17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.

"18 Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you And you will eat the plants of the field 19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground,

Because from it you were taken;

For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”

"22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life."

Cain worked harder on his sacrifice, and he sacrificed more because his sacrafice was out of his first fruits of hard hard labor.

Cain is working through the curse.

"23 therefore the LORD God sent him (Adam) out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken." (To cultivate the ground he was taken from that now God cursed) And that would be with thorns and thistles and sweat. The ground he came from will forever fight him, and he will forever fight the ground.

So when Cain offered from the ground, he was offering from that which is cursed, as man is dust, dust from ground, groud is cursed.

Yet Able's sacrafice from the 1st fruits of his flock pleased God.

The flock was a provision by God. He provided the creatures, and He multiplied them. So Able just gave back to God what was given.

Able simply cared and nurtured them. Yet his sacrafice pleased God over the fruits of hard labor. Why? Because Able's was from the provision of God, and from simply Able's love of care for the flock and love for God.

Cain was working by brute force. Working the cursed ground, toiling against the curse day in and day out working hard against that which is cursed.

Cain's sacrafice was his work, his hard work! Abel's sacrafice was from his love and not from hard work at all!

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Abel's offering was accepted because it was a blood offering. It was by the blood of innocent animals that God covered Adam and Eve's sin temporarily.

Able's sacrifice was in obedience to God's demand that sin be paid for, and it's cost is life. It was not about if Cain or Able loved God, there is nothing to show Cain did not love God. Cain was trying to please God but it was not what God wanted. It took a blood offering to atone for sin.

Your fake modern perversion of God's word dilutes the doctrine of the blood, and those fake Bibles are symptoms of your unbelief which causes you to add unbiblical stretches of millions of years to Genesis.

It's the blood of Christ which paid for our sins. It was at the cost of an animal's life that Adam and Eve were covered with it's skin, a covering for their sin. The life of the flesh is in the blood, God took an animals' life in place of Adam's life, it's blood was shed and Adam wore it's skin identifying himself with the slain animal. Salvation is through faith in the blood of the Lamb of God, not through how much we love God or work for Him.

By faith Able offered up a more excellent sacrifice. Able understood what the sacrifice meant and why it had to be God's way. You're whole post here mentions nothing of the real difference between Cain and Able's sacrifices......it's the blood.

God provided plants and multiplied them. Cain worked caring for the plants. It was the same with Able and the animals, that was their jobs. What Cain should have done was to buy a sacrificial animal from Able in exchange for fruit from his crops and offered up a blood sacrifice.

Whatever source you are getting your stuff from, if I had it in book form in my house I would burn it.

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

There are a few different applications of Biblical prophesy.

So you have "the 1st Adam brought into sin, the 2nd Adam brings us back to commune with God.

You have application of historical Biblical application, as history and as lesson, and then future prophetic application.

So Cain and Abel show the telling of the pleasing sacrafice of Jesus and the rejection and murder that told of Jesus' experience when He was to come. With that being a fulfilled prophesy. You may even have an end times application in.

Cain was marked by God, there is a mark in revelations, maybe not "the mark" so all would know him and not harm him.

And being a man who lived by his work which wrestled the ground for his survival, against the cursed ground from which man was made, and the ground man returns to. So he is a picture of living undwber the law, with judgement of hate and jealousy.

And the curse of Cain grows as the 7 times cursed are those who murder Cain. So its no wonder that in the end times love waxes cold. And no wonder civilizations have experiences so much hate routed in hate, greed, and power.

Cain and Abel are a picture also of works and grace. And also a picture of works under the law and faith.

And also Abel's sacrafice of the first fruits is the beginning of sacrifices in worship and attonement which God expanded i generations to come, which obviously pointed to Jesus.

I think you may be very condescending to people. You seem like a newer Christian Bible thumper. Even the 1st years combined with age those years can be harsh.

What denomination do you belong to?

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You said "So when Cain offered from the ground, he was offering from that which is cursed, as man is dust, dust from ground, groud is cursed."

The animals are under the curse of sin and death the same as the ground. The whole creation is under the curse of sin at this time. The difference in Cain and Able's sacrifice was the life's blood of the animal which represented the blood of the Lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world.

Able believed God, and by faith offered up a more excellent sacrifice. Able understood what God wanted and obeyed, Cain tried to do it his own way, not understanding why his way was wrong when he gave God his best.

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Actually that's not true. All Creation groans waiting for the children of God to be revealed. The Snake was cursed to be lower than all the animals.

And if the account is accurate in wording, it says man was made then God went and prepped a garden for him. And then God placed man in it

Then He made and brought the animals before Adam, none a suitable companion. He made Eve from Adam. And Adam was made from dust outside of the garden.

So nature is neutral and in subjection to futility . And we have many scriptures that say nature praises God, Nature doesn't choose anything. And it glorifies God because it knows there is one.

Here is God shutting out of the garden.

Gen 3

22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Here is the wording of the curses:

Cursed are you more than all cattle,

And more than every beast of the field;

On your belly you will go,

And dust you will eat

All the days of your life

The snake was cursed more. The animals carried a burden of the curse in subjection to God's will.

And the snake eating the cursed ground, the dust.

19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

Here is mans curse, of course Eves was child birth and subjection.

But for the man -

Cursed is the ground because of you;

In toil you will eat of it

All the days of your life.

18 “Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;

And you will eat the plants of the field;

19 By the sweat of your face

You will eat bread,

Till you return to the ground,

Because from it you were taken;

For you are dust,

And to dust you shall return.”

They were from the ground of the garden. So nature praises God. Nature is neutral, the ground is cursed. Man is cursed to work with toil, it would be with difficulty with the ground ultimately winning, in death returning to the ground. So you live fighting it and you die trapped in it.

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Where are you getting these teachings? Somebody is doing you a disservice leading you in these heretical doctrines.

Side: Theism
1 point

Somethings just can't be explained scientifically. Science is wonderful, but it can't explain why the universe was created. Science can't explain miracles. No they do not "just happen". You can't bring someone back from the graveyard? This is simply because there are somethings even science cannot do.

Side: Theism
Bohemian(3860) Disputed
1 point

Prior to Isaac Newton we didn't really understand planetary motion.

This is what Ptolemy said about Planetary motion, “I know that I am mortal by nature, and ephemeral; but when I trace at my pleasure the windings to and fro of the heavenly bodies I no longer touch the earth with my feet: I stand in the presence of Zeus himself and take my fill of ambrosia”

For Ptolemy, having lived over a millennia before Newton, the movement of the planets was an unknowable mystery only understood by the gods. History is replete with things that we will never be know, that with time were eventually known, and when you resign God or gods to such gaps in human knowledge they dwell in increasingly small gaps. The temptation to assign the cause of things we do not currently understand to the supernatural is an ever present one, and an intellectually perilous one at that.

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Well they seemed to have had an idea that time worked around the solar system. Or at least if they didn't they worded it in a way that conveyed it when time was established.

Why did the writer choose the order for the creation days?

Even that took some thought and advanced thinking.

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Prior to you being in existence, God was there and you were not. After your death is finalized, God will be there and you will be in Heaven or Hell. If you don't believe it, prove me wrong. Try getting out, make it your life goal.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Well Paul says he is all things to all people that he may win some.

So I guess science matters if your talking with someone that has more of a scientific background.

I think if you can give the good news of God's word in a way they can relate to it its a good thing.

I honestly don't hold it as a big deal whether 1 person holds onto

7 / 24 hour days. Or of longer days.

I think both beliefs are fine neither are in contradiction to what is written. And how he did it doesn't matter to our salvation.

Side: Atheism
1 point

Conscience is unique to man.

If you say conscience is conditioning, well just like the 1st act of creation was a burst of light or black hole of gravity, and the question never answered who created that 1st reaction.

Isn't nothing even something?

If something didn't exist then how then can nothing exist?

So if conscience was created by conditioning who set up the 1st conscience?

And if man isn't unique then what other creatures have also learned conscience?

And after you tell me about those creatures tell me how they passed conscience on to their dependents?

Or tell me how any other creature can also learn to have a conscience.

If we are just creatures and we developed our own conciences and then conditioned other consciences, isnt it reasonable to think there has to be at least a few other creatures that also can be taught to develope a conscience.

Memories, hmm not just education. Just memory, which other creatures have a memories like us.

I can shoot water at a cat every time she jumps on the counter, eventually she knows water hits me whenever I go up on the counter. But that's not memories.

Even animals that have instinctive memories are not like our memories. An ape may notice another ape is missing, but even that is instinct. They instinctively live in families. But the don't remember like us. A dog may forever be lol to a dead owner. But still not memories like ours. A sea turtle instinctively knows it's way back to land. But that's still instinct.

Our memories we can command, and reminiscing a past person or event. Attaching emotion to our memories.

Even the ape has memory but by instinct, but not a conscience or memories and the command of memories the same thing?

When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"

Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.When God spoke to Moses He said His name is "I Am"

Many times God is called The Alpha and the Omega The Beginning and the End.

If God exists who is man to question Him. Who is man to demand proof or to demand anything from God.

If He is content to create us, then shouldn't us existing be our lot in life. If we are just assembled then what is soul and what is conscience?

Besides humanity what other species has a conscience.

Conscience is right or wrong. Well you can train right and wrong.

You can train a mouse the right way through the maze to get the cheese.

You can train a dog to obey and do tricks.

Dog lovers they love you! Right? Sure they have an instinct that considers you part of the pack. They have loyalty and they live to please you, and look quilts when they tear up your couch cushions.

God made animals and brought them to Adam and no suitable help mate or companion was like him. So God made animals and even offered them as companions and help mates, but He said not suitable to be like him.

The dog does love you, but there is not really conscience, there is instinct. And the guilt he feels is a conditioned response to the reaction of displeasure he is aware of when you come in. Or he is aware every time he does this behavior it brings displeasure.

But conscience isn't just instinct. It isn't even a conditioned response.

Our consciences exist independently. We are born with a conscience, we become aware of it as we grow.

Conscience is either dulled or made sensitive.

But it existed before being molded.

Conscience can be effected by disease or environment.

But these factors have to alter the conscience we are born with.

Every decission made affecting conscience that is made in the mind isn't an act of conscience.

An act is taken disregarding conscience or in light of conscience.

Example Hitler actions weren't a result of conscience, they were a result of depravity of conscience.

Whatever was put in or pushed through Hitler was an act of depravity silencing his conscience.

Pharoah in the Moses story " let my people go" is a Bible example of a hardened heart, or conscience. A conscience can be dulled to the point of depravity. But still we all have 1.

I'm sure there was even a line Hitler wouldn't cross because of whatever was left of his conscience. Maybe he was dull there was no line left.

The question is, Did the big bang send our consciences?

What else in creation has a conscience?

A conscience can haunt someone, nag at someone, cause guilt, or justice, or cause freedom, take a stand, or take a fall.

Its something that can feel.

Its something that attaches emotion to our actions and our choices. It is the why and the motive of the heart not of the head.

Its the final say when making a list of available choices when consequences have a deeper effect than eating a piece of cake or a piece of fruit.

Our consciences isn't our preferences or our likes and dislikes.

Its a place inside that feels the choice. A piece of cake could be conscience if it's someone else's cake, or if your on a diet and cheating.

But see its a feeling about the action.

Most of us don't feel anything about our piece of cake.

Now if it's double chocolate and makes you think of mom, and you remember how you hurt her when you ran away, thats conscience.

If there is not a God then how do we exclusively have a conscience?

The Bible says God breathed life into the man and he was created a living soul.

It also says God wrote the law on our consciences so no one would have an excuse.

The 1st act of wronged conscience was Adam and Eve hiding in the garden. There is no need to hide if your conscience has nothing to hide.

Man can hide things for years because of conscience. Can any other created thing carry that weight within themselves?

Is man truely unique in creation?

The Bible says Let Us make Man in Our Image

US is the Trinity

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Yes, conscience is unique to man and being deceived is unique to woman.

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
2 points

And I must tell you your error with the use of your scriptures about women.

Ready here it is...

You use it to say you are right in your doctrines because you are a man. Those scriptures ABSOLUTELY do NOT mean you are right because you are a man. That is a sin of pride, and its just as screwed up in doctrine as it can get regarding women.

1st of all I assume I am a good bit older than you, and I think there is something about older women being looked at as mothers able to guide in spiritual matters and practical matters.

2nd of all we are not IN church together and you are just a man discussing scripture with a woman.

You are not my husband

Not my pastor

Not a leader in my church

And you logic is EXTREMELY faulty, because by what you are saying... a woman should cover their head, is that by every man?

Even antiChrists? Even false teachers? Who determines which men have authority over women? Well it must be all????? Really??????

You being a man and me being a woman is irrelevant here.

If there is any relevance you should look to my maturity as an older woman as honorable!

1 is simply being respectful and giving honor for age and maturity.

But you as a man DO NOT cover my head in ANY Biblical context!

So please drop that foolish argument with me it doesn't and will never carry any authority over me as a Christian or as a woman.

I have a husband I have my head covered.

And we are not in church. And I don't subject myself to authority God did not designate.

Ok?

So argue my points. Or don't talk to me because I'm a woman

Your choice!

As in maturity I have you by age and most likely I am more mature spiritually also. At least currently. My assumptions are from our conversations, and what I've seen in your post in general.

You need to grow. I've been around as a Christian for 30 years, I've seen almost every attitude within your post, sometimes even in myself.

I'm not being mean, I'm telling you knowing growth happens, and some times its a 2 step, 1 step forward and 2 steps back. But eventually you do- se- do

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

In a sense you are correct and then the rest you are incorrect.

Conscience is both men and women.

Women are unique from men in that they can be decieved more easily emotionally. Its the nature of both beasts.

Men being more objective and task oriented, often have women at a disadvantage emotionally. AND no degree of feminism will change it. And they try! The push to equalize a physical relationship.

Guys and gals will always be different on processing it.

Usually the girl thinking more than the guy, being decieved.

The girls who fight so hard to dull their consciences, have to devalue themselves to achieve it. And it hurts them no matter how they act on the outside. They are decieved by denial.

But man is a term of humanity

Both man and wo-man.

So you have to consider context in your conclusions

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

So all women are decieved and there is no truth in them.

Are we not heirs also???

You can't see anything wrong with the attitude of your heart in matters relating to women?

You are using scriptures to defend a faulty sinful attitude.

Go talk to your pastor, your supposed to be under them.

And you need help through this to see clearly.

You use scripture to say you are right because you are a man, and I am wrong because I must be decieved because I'm a woman.

And that's not ridiculous in your mind.

You are literally doing what Adam did the woman.you made is decieved so I am only right or wrong based on her being decieved

Honestly you need to never use those scriptures because you use them to sow fig leaves.

Truth is to set free! Not put down into submission.

1st of all look at the Scripture a women is supposed to subject herself.... Not a man is supposed to subdue!

Your attempt with scripture is to subdue. To rule over, to be right!

2 Tim 2

22 Run from anything that stimulates youthful lusts. Instead, pursue righteous living, faithfulness, love, and peace. Enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts.

23 Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. 24 A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. 25 Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. 26 Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Here is a Biblical presentation which curiously goes through examples of women as prophets and teachers and also goes into the attitude of hearts in women and men.

Please listen to the audio

http://cbesydney.org.au/2015/05/audio-for-the-consensus-and-context-of-1-timothy-212/

http://newlife.id.au/equality-and-gender-issues/the-consensus-and-context-of-1-timothy-212/

Side: Theism
1 point

It all comes down to these questions.

What is necessary for any world to exist?

What is necessary for any world to exist, and without this which is necessary then no possible world could exist?

What is necessary for any possible world to exist?

What is the 1st piece needed beyond the last known layer?

When we peel back every layer down the nucleus of the base core, the final layer out of which all things began, what is necessary for our actual world?

So if we peel back to 1st speck, back to evolutions 1st spark of energy that started the chain reaction of all creation would have to have every building block of our creation, the complexity of our entire world, to the highest possible form of possible evolution achieved, with every detail contained in a speck the size of rhe 1st spark, the size of a mustard seed.

A few interesting rambling thoughts:

Jesus discussed faith the size of a mustard seed could move mountains into the sea. So If our faith is that powerful for us, what is God able to do with a mustard seed???

Its a funny thing that Jesus referred to the kingdom as going through an eye of a needle, and also as a mustard seed.

And Speed of light we now know, and I don't actually grasp.

But I grasp enough to see a connection He is light, there is NO darkness in Him. He is eternal life and the light.

In the New Jerusalem there will be only day. Are light years days in heaven talked about from almost every prophet?

1 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified

2 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.

3 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!

Side: Theism
1 point

The rule of logic leading to Maximum Greatness, by standards of Maximum Excellence.

Qualities pertaining to Maximum Excellence in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness is determined by the highest possible Evolution in any and every possible world.

Maximum Excellence is point of reference, and Maximum Greatness is point of reference!

1 Maximum Greatness exists in any and every possible world.

2 Maximum Excellence exists in every possible way relative to the greatest or at the very least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.

3 If any of the possible worlds consists of only ants and bugs, then Maximum Excellence is whatever qualities are necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in that possible world.

4 So Maximum Excellence is relative to the greater or at least minimum applications necessary to achieve highest evolution of Maximum Greatness for any and all possible world.

5 Maximum Excellence entails the application of qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness relative to any and every possible world.

6 There exists a Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary to achieve Maximum Greatness in any and every possible world.

7 Maximum Excellence as Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection are relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in every possible world.

8 What is impossible in one possible world, may be be possible in other possible worlds.

9 What is possible in one possible world may be impossible in another possible world.

10 The proposition, there exists an Omnicient, Omnipotent, and Morally Perfect Being of Maximum Excellence relative to the greater or at least minimum application necessary to achieve it's highest possible evolution to Maximum Greatness in an actual possible world.

11 So the conclusion is there must be a Maximum Excellent Being in any and every possible world that has the greatest or at least minimum qualities necessary in Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Moral Perfection relevant to the acievement of highest possible evolution in Maximum Greatness in that actual possible world .

12 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified

13 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.

14 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!

15 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!

16 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!

17 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!

18 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.

Side: Theism
1 point

1 - Nothing exists if No-Maximality is exemplified

2 - Maximal greatness is possible only if Maximality is exemplified.

3 - Without Maximality, then Maximal Greatness is impossible!

4 - Since Maximality exists, ONLY those who are made in the image of Maximality can achieve the highest possible Maximum Greatness in the image of Maximality!

5 - Those who are made in the image of Maximality achieve Maximum Greatness by an ever present goal within themselves, and set before themselves ever reaching for their Maximum Greatness with standards reflective of the image of Maximality!

6 - The goal to achieve Maximum Greatness can never achieved if Maximality is altered by a lesser image of Maximality in any and every possible world!

7 - Maximum Greatness is achieved by reaching it's Maximum Potential in it's Maximum Purpose through achieving it's highest possible likeness to an unaltered image of Maximality.

Side: Theism
1 point

What would it be like if God didn't really exist, if there was no Maximality and no Maximum Greatness Potential?

Without any basis of standard of Maximality qualities?

If there is no basis for Conscience without a Maximality to define and establish a standard of conscience, then how does conscience exist, and an even more disturbing question, why is it exclusive to 1 species? So then why would conscience exist among humanity, yet not exist in any other living thing produced in the same possible world?

Wouldn't it make sense that if conscience was evolved, that there would be further samplings of conscience in the same possible world?

Side: Theism
1 point

So Creation verses Evolution is a blindness and a distraction to many.

The point is not whether God chose to do it in 24 hours, or millions of years, and even if the Nithilum were civilizations of prehistoric men, God made man in "His image" when He made Adam ...!

That is a story of God's creation of His children ... and setting in motion every detail to be written we ever needed to know to be redeemed, and then changed into a nature of glorified bodies that CAN live in the His holiness and His light, so that we CAN live with Him forever.

While the rest of the world and its inhabitants from the beginning of time who missed out, are woken also to join in for this world's final destruction. ie.. Sheep / goats etc... to never exist again.

Side: Theism
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Wait, do you actually think the story of Adam happened, literally?

Because if so, that would essentially require you to believe the world is only 6,000 years old (if you trace the genealogy of Adam in the Bible).

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Clarified
1 point

Sure and if you understood it you would too.

When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!

The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

If I give you something to think about would you?

Or is your 1st thought how to argue it?

Read it! Then read it again trying to understand it. Because it's actually just a snippet that's pretty mind blowong.

Remember story of Cain and Abel?

How about Isaac and Ishmael?

Here is something not popularly known about Cain and his family tree.

Cain is the (1st generation), and he fathered

Enoch (2nd generation) Cain built a city named after his son Enoch, then Irad (3nd generation), Mehujael (4th generation)

Methushael (5th generation) root words of his name

Methu = Death / Shael = Sheol

Lamech (6th generation) - 6 the number of a man, this maybe a message of insight here!

Especially compared to the geneology of Seth!

Cain murders 1 and lies to God, Lamech murders 2 and brags about it to 2 wives, after he killed a man and a boy in vengeance, while declaring even greater severe vengeance!

Lamech also marries 2 Wives, which is not what God commanded He made them male and female... to become one flesh!

In the geneolgy of Cain, there is an Enoch # 2.

And, there is also an Enoch # 7 in Seth's geneology. - God takes his son # 7 Enoch to Heaven without dieing, while Cain dead in this world names a city after his son Enoch.

(Seth of course is Abel's "replacement" as stated by Eve "since Cain murdered him")

So in the 6th generation of Cain, Lamech the direct son of a man whose name means death-sheol sings praise of murder hear what he says ...

Genesis 4

23 Lamech said to his wives,

“Adah and Zillah,

Listen to my voice,

You wives of Lamech,

Give heed to my speech,

For I have killed a man for wounding me;

And a boy for striking me;

24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold,

Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”

FYI Ishmael wasn't a mistake, he also was born at the

"appointed time"

God say "at the appointed time" over and over and over again, such as in when fulfilled promise to Abraham and Sarah "when" conceived Isaac "at the appointed time" then there is the story to us ... when Abraham was "100 years old" He fathered Isaac ... and "86" When "Ishmael" was born.

Here is a very important prophesy given to Ishmael's "Egyptian" mom "

"Sarai treated her (Hagar) harshly, and she fled from her presence.

7 Now the angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” 9 Then the angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.”

10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiply

your descendants so that they will be too many to count.

11 The angel of the Lord said to her further,

“Behold, you are with child,

And you will bear a son;

And you shall call his name Ishmael,

Because the Lord has given heed to your affliction.

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,

his hand will be against everyone,

And everyone’s hand will be against him,

And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”

Does this sound like anything to you???

Umm yeah, it's a prophesy that grows, and is part of Israel's history up till end time prophesies fulfilled in final days.

Now this is a prophesy showing Israel's enemies, and every nation's part in it!

How telling!

Well these specific events and time periods are time setters designed by God "in completeion" of all His work!

And every detail we need to guide us is literally in the Bible everywhere, in everything, every story, every parable!!! Even in geneologies, what I've seen in Genesis from Adam to Noah and through Cain's geneology is end times mindblowong! Along with many other things that I've seen in Genesis.

----------

Jesus was not ever coming on the "2000 year Millenial" like many thought whit hype of computers shutting down etc ... if you remember that hype. (And fyi, I didn't buy into that hype at all!) But now I do see a time that is pretty much a clear "appointed." (believe

Its a time to get His people ready, and a breathing space that many Christians will take as "peace and safety!" While His true people get to work, and this is in about 5 parables Jesus told .... and in prophesies from Genesis to Revelations!

I mean amazing!!

When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!

The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Clarified
1 point

Do you read?

So Creation verses Evolution is a blindness and a distraction to many.

The point is not whether God chose to do it in 24 hours, or millions of years, and even if the Nithilum were civilizations of prehistoric men, God made man in "His image" when He made Adam ...!

That is a story of God's creation of His children ... and setting in motion every detail to be written we ever needed to know to be redeemed, and then changed into a nature of glorified bodies that CAN live in the His holiness and His light, so that we CAN live with Him forever.

While the rest of the world and its inhabitants from the beginning of time who missed out, are woken also to join in for this world's final destruction. ie.. Sheep / goats etc... to never exist again.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

If God exists, and His Word is credible, then yes, I wouldn't have a reason not to.

I don't know that we need to explain everything under the sun to establish if at the very least the Bible is credible in historical docomentation and pre-written history as documentation.

If all other things are accurate and truthful then it's reasonable to Consider Adam is also possibly just as credible.

https://youtu.be/mG37ysdWLWc

This is entertaining

Weigh the evidence!

My take on immorality is Eternal Life.

What is Light?

Can it be in three time periods at the same time?

Is there a place in the speed of light where time stands still?

Is God known as Light?

Does He give Eternal Life?

Did anyone writing the Bible understand the speed of light, or was that a scientific realization of modern day?

Then how or why would light and eternal life and Omnipresence meaning every where at once and Omniscience, knowing all things past present and future, why do you think light and these characteristics of the person who IS Light would somehow appear together, as characteristics found in God, who is The Light?

Again did these ancient writers understand the science of Light?

Side: Atheism
1 point

Please read

When God made the world in Genesis, He ALSO established an "appointed time" for every act of prophesy that day from the beginning to end!

The Bible is so amazing, but without the Spirit of God in us it's an unknown wacky Book, with nice object lessons, but a book of riddles! But with the Spirit of God in us and showing us, Man! It opens up eternity, like your swimming in a deepest crystal clear river, with Living Waters rushing through every appointed time, with every wisdom ever known, with the sounds of Eternity echoing throughout the deepest cavern declaring the glory and power of God that He wove into a Book His people could hold in their hands!

Everyday of creation is a 1000 years of time till He establishes His Kingdom and ushers in His 7th day "rest" as His 1000 year reign, while He establishes New Jerusalem.

It's the time period of letting the earth sit for its day of rest, while His children also rest for 1000 years, before finally bringing His final Kingdom to earth "The New Jerusalem" in Revelations 21.

God say "at the appointed time" over and over and over again, such as in when fulfilled promise to Abraham and Sarah "when" conceived Isaac "at the appointed time" then there is the story to us ... when Abraham was "100 years old" He fathered Isaac ... and "86" When "Ishmael" was born.

Here is a very important prophesy given to Ishmael's "Egyptian" mom "

"Sarai treated her harshly, and she fled from her presence.

7 Now the angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from and where are you going?” And she said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.” 9 Then the angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself to her authority.”

10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiply

your descendants so that they will be too many to count.

11 The angel of the Lord said to her further,

“Behold, you are with child,

And you will bear a son;

And you shall call his name Ishmael,

Because the Lord has given heed to your affliction.

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man,

his hand will be against everyone,

And everyone’s hand will be against him,

And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”

Does this sound like anything to you???

Umm yeah, it's a prophesy that grows, and is part of Israel's history up till end time prophesies fulfilled in final days.

Now this is a prophesy showing Israel's enemies, and every nation's part in it!

How telling!

Well these specific events and time periods are time setters designed by God "in completeion" of all His work!

And every detail we need to guide us is literally in the Bible everywhere, in everything, every story, every parable!!! Even in geneologies, what I've seen in Genesis from Adam to Noah and through Cain's geneology is end times mindblowong! Along with many other things that I've seen in Genesis.

----------

Jesus was not ever coming on the "2000 year Millenial" like many thought whit hype of computers shutting down etc ... if you remember that hype. (And fyi, I didn't buy into that hype at all!) But now I do see a time that is pretty much a clear "appointed." (believe it or not, Trump is even in there!!)

Its a time to get His people ready, and a breathing space that many Christians will take as "peace and safety!" While His true people get to work, and this is in about 5 parables Jesus told .... and in prophesies from Genesis to Revelations!

I mean amazing!!

And from what I see it was NOT on the 2000 year anniversary of His birth, which was year 2000, (actually year 1996, because historians realized AD and BC are actually off by 4 years - imagine that, God may have purposely allowed this to provide a "delay" - as is mentioned many times throughout parables - "while the master delayed" or

"Bridegroom delayed"

"No man knows hour or day" as Jesus said! - But He pain stakingly did say when we see times and seasons we will KNOW! In other words in Matt 24 He literally giving instructions! Detailing things, where to look, and telling us as time gets near there are appointed times and signs and seasons to understand in the Bible that correlate to what we see in history and current events.

Because the times are literally in there. And as time gets closer ... He is revealing .... and even says "revealing" things would be done at appointed time!

6000 years from Jesus' Death and Resurrection, is the TIME!

Not on the day or hour, but in that time period. We are in the end of day 6!

Every 1000 years is a day!

It's a scripture starement in Peter and also in Psalms! And if your read Ecclesiastical A time foe everything chapter, it shows appointed times, along with its object lesson.

Each 1000 years is a time keeper of events ... from putting Cain and Abel in, to replacing Abel with Seth to the births of Isaac and Ishmael into the world and into the timeline, to prophesying every single thing!

So one thing I see is, the 2000 year anniversary of the 1st Resurrection which is 2029 to 2033 is the approximate date (its a marker, could be before or after, but its around this marker in the prophesy timeline) declaring the final acts of this world, and the fulfilling of the prophesies of the "2nd Resurection"

(So it makes sense that if the last act is like the 1st act which is related in every way, to be a like time of final fulfillment on the Millenials (each 1000 years!)

When he comes with a trumpet raises the dead and transforms the saints living into glorified bodies for the 7th day - 1000 year Millenials reign!!

And it's spelled out! Hidden being revealed now!

Babylon is US. And the kings in Daniel are stages of Us growth to destruction! It correlated to Ezekiel and Revelations and Matt 24 and every where else as threads to see times and purposes!

Ear to hear, eyes to see will be blessed ... everyone else is blinded because its a riddle!

Side: Theism
Lilianna(8) Disputed
1 point

I have a question for you: God created the Earth, and then humans and animals not too long after, correct?

Then why were there no humans when dinosaurs existed?

Side: Atheism
1 point

Then why were there no humans when dinosaurs existed?

There were no dinosaurs DUMMY! Haha! Thought you were clever, didn't you?

Satan and God both conspired to put the bones in the ground in order to test your faith. They are both a couple of scholars and have been arguing with each other for millennia about how dumb people are. Satan argued that people are dumb enough to believe a bunch of bones in the ground prove dinosaurs existed, but God disagreed. They then shook hands and had a gentlemen's bet on the matter.

Side: Theism
1 point

...............................................................................................................................

Side: Theism
1 point

yes my child

yes

jj the jetplane is real

he will send you to the helicopter zone if you do not obey him

obey jj

obey jj

obey jj

obey jj

obey jj

obey jj

OBEY HIM!

pls I'm lonely

The JJ Bible

JETSO:37:4

"YEEE SHALL OBEY THY JAYJAY! GIVE HIM ALL OF HIS NEEDS, OR YOU SHALL BE SENT TO WHOMST'VESTHEMSTVIST HELICOPTER ZONE"

You can watch the movie about the JJ bible here, its tells you all you need to know(its a true classic from the 60s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLhz5ZLAGx0

jj
Side: Theism
1 point

yes, i love yyou jj

pls give me your stuff

if you know what i mean ;)

;);););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););)

;););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););););)

Side: Theism
1 point

He says He does. That is good enough for all but the mentally ill.

Side: Theism
1 point

There has to be at least some form of higher power that doesn't exist under our laws. In our universe, everything has a beginning - and everything has an end. Everything that exists has come into existence because of something else. In order for our Universe to exist, there must be something outside of the laws of the universe (by extent, outside of our universe) that doesn't need something to cause it to exist - it just exists forever. It can't have a beginning, because every beginning is caused by something, and it must be sentient because otherwise it wouldn't cause the universe to exist. Therefore, it is logical to assume that 'it' must something similar to what we call God.

Side: Theism

I believe in a Supernatural God. I believe that He loves us and wants to reach us to get us to heaven. My argument starts from a fundamental premise of existential uncertainty. For, given my premise, and assuming the best, I have shown that a God exists. I have shown that if you believe God doesn’t exist, then you are certain to go to Hell. But if you believe God does exist, then my argument gives a reason to believe in Him and His love for us, which is what any loving God would want. We all know that we exist. We can use the five senses to prove to ourselves that we exist. One of the ways that we can use our sense to validate the world around us is touch. Touching things like a marble floor or the leaves on the trees just outside the front door can lead us to believe that we are real and the world around us is real. We base our sciences on the five senses as they are the tools that lead us to understand the world around us through experiments. We have named that very practice Observational Science. A fundamental law in the physics realm that we have discovered using Observational Science states that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It only takes a different form. For example, when you burn wood in a fireplace, the wood is not disappearing, but turning into oxygen, carbon dioxide, and many other gaseous chemicals. We can also apply this principle to origins. What we have discovered regarding the Conservation of Matter contradicts that of what we have speculated through Historical Science: The spontaneous creation of the universe as a result of the Big Bang. All throughout history science and theory have been changing as a result of new discoveries that either prove or disprove a certain hypothesis, but the one thing that seems to stick throughout all the contradictions is The Big Bang Theory. If The Big Bang Theory cannot explain things like how the universe was created if matter cannot be created or destroyed or the faint sun paradox, then why aren't we discarding it and looking for another solution to the issue of origins? This is what leads me to the existential uncertainty part that makes my argument unique and strong. Evolution argues that we are all just animals that have evolved slowly over millions of years. Our species came out on top as a result of what many secular scientists call Natural Selection. If we came out on top when we allegedly emerged from Africa, then why is there still more powerful animals out there like gorillas and lions that could easily wipe out a human? Our existential crisis lies there. The lions and gorillas should have wiped out the human race assuming we were a more primitive and less evolved species back in that time period.

Side: Theism
23 points

People generally want to make themselves feel significant, and by believing there is a god, it is much easier to say that our lives have meaning. Although having faith may bring peace to personal lives, it brings along with it severe problems such as segregation. The way we define culture is based on religion(vice-versa) and without religion the world would undergo far less human-led catastrophes(Hitler?)

Side: Atheism
Apologetics7(33) Disputed
5 points

Not true. I dont believe in God to feel good but because I know there is a God and has searched for a God and has found him. I dont just fake belief in God but want to have a good relationship with God. God is proven true through his son Jesus.There is truth out there but you cant just disregard truth based on what you feel is True. You just need more truth and better reasoning and may want to consider to search for a God. Because if you play the game "oh maybe God is real" then your playing a dangerous game. Because if God is real and you havent gotten Right with God through his son then your going to Hell. A Righteous God must send all Unrighteous to Hell. You can only be justified through his son. If you really care about the truth then you will really search for God sincerely.

Side: Theism
robag2000(65) Disputed
5 points

"A Righteous God must send all Unrighteous to Hell."

"unrighteous", according to dictionary.com, by definition, is:

"not righteous; not upright or virtuous; wicked; sinful; evil"

A Greek named Epicurus once said:

"If God is willing but unable to prevent evil,

Then he is not omnipotent.

If god is able but not willing,

Then he is malevolent.

If he is both willing and able,

From whence comes evil?

If he is neither willing nor able,

Then why call him God?"

If your God is righteous then why hasn't evil been abolished?

Side: Atheism
nooby(14) Clarified
4 points

Tottally agree, it gives false sense of belonging to something bigger than just being a piece of meet, blood and bones that have to reproduce and than live happily until they dissapear.

There are other psychological, socialogical and practical reasons why religions came to be, but most of those have disappeared as the society/civilisation has advanced. I firmly believe that at a certain level of society development, religion was practical thing to have, but as a tool it lost its purpose when society moved on and created more sofisticated tools due to more collected knowledge, experience and applied logical reasoning.

Side: Theism
4 points

Im gonna refute some common arguments:

1. T: If there is no God how was the universe created?

A: I don't know, but you choose to jump to a conclusion instead of waiting for a better answer. Also, how was god created? Also, I could use this same argument to "prove" Santa created the universe.

T: He's eternal, he was always there.

A: I could use the same to state why the universe is here.

2. T: If there is no God, how do we get our morals?

A: Morals come from evolution, as a human who doesn't harm other human beings will overall increase reproduction. Also I could use this argument to justify why Santa is an almighty creator.

3. T: Life is so incredibly unlikely how could you not believe in a intelligent designer?

A: Life is not unlikely, as the universe is so huge, and theres been so much time, its definitely wouldn't be a stretch to say that the universe would have life.

4. T: So many people believe in god though!

A: Basically the whole world believed the earth was flat at one point. People in North Korea think that their country is the best country. Bad argument.

5. T: The universe is so complex, it entails a god.

The universe being complex is a human opinion, to another life form it could be simple, and boring, to another amazing, and unimaginable.

Side: Atheism
anonymousdeb(61) Disputed
2 points

1) If Santa created the universe, then Santa would be God??? Plus, do not throw out any solution too quickly. I could say that the best way to get to space would be to be launched into space via a nuclear bomb. You would have to explain why that would not work.

God is eternal because God created time. You have to explain how time began. Otherwise, the universe cannot be eternal, otherwise, I would conclude infinte time passed.

2) That does not explain a lot of morals. Plus, why is increasing reproduction good or bad? Plus, if Santa created the universe, then Santa would be God???

3) Fun Fact: If you needed to get correct a 100-digit password to get life, the chances of you reaching that even with the size of the observable universe and several billion year universe lifespan, chances are you're not going to guess the password right. The question that people often ignore is how likely is life? Even scientists do not know the answer to that question.

4) To be fair, that is a bad argument.

5) Complexity is not a human opinion. It is like the difference between a pure black screen and the Mona Lisa. A pure black screen contains low complexity and can be easily compressed, whereas the Mona Lisa has a much higher complexity and cannot be as easily compressed. It is not subjective.

Side: Theism
Viceregent(413) Disputed
2 points

Not a scientist, eh? We know the universe did not arise by natural means out of nothing due up the 1st Law of Thermo and that the universe is not eternal due to the 2nd Law. It is not your ignorance that is the problem, but your anti-science naturalism.

Side: Theism
Qua-(13) Disputed
3 points

God represents a way to live life. If there was no God then there would be no reason for people to not do whatever they want. Yes there would be rules and such in the framework of our government. But internally speaking, there would be no need to follow such rules. A world without God is no world indeed.

As for the problems for segregation, well you're just basing it off of certain individuals who chose for themselves to pervert the foundational value of their "religion", those who use religion as an excuse. They don't represent the whole of religion. It's more about the interpersonal relationship with God and oneself.

As for the Hitler comment, well he was just a corrupted individual. I'm pretty sure there are corrupted atheists too like Mao Ze Dong, Joseph Stalin, and Benito Mussolini. Religion doesn't define a person, it's ones individual morals that define him/her self. No individual person is a representation of their whole entire faith, that's just silly and absurd.

Actually the foundational theme in just about all religion is to love each other. In one sense, religion can just be another way for living out their moral code. Just how you carry it out is a different matter.

Side: Theism
Name(18) Disputed
2 points

Christianity does not serve to make one feel significant, but humble oneself. It brings meaning and clarity to an otherwise pointless life. Religion brings peace where it can, but it must bring seperation, however this and the other disasters would happen regardless.

Side: Theism
1 point

You put it perfetly. Jesus Christ told us to humble ourselves before his father. So that eliminates the argument of "faith is only here to make people feel significant" right there. :D

Side: Theism
stratos(85) Disputed
1 point

So does that prove anything? we are here to present evidences on whether God is true or not, We are not talking about the "affects" of religion. Based on your opinion about segregation, yes its true but does it affect the so-called "Ultimate Truth".

Side: Theism
winovertruth(9) Disputed
1 point

this does nothing to disprove the existence of a god. an explanation for why such a concept may have been created does not disprove the god.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

You don't seem to understand God, or people, or regimes, or war, or religion.

As far as wars it's not true of motivation if you think Hitler was inspired by religion. Just because He isolated an idea and phrase thar had an appearance of religion. It was done so for greed and power and hate.

There is no where in the New Testaments where Jesus or His followers command or even suggest murder.

And there is a time for peace and a time for war.

So the Christian response was to sacrafice our lives to stop Hitler and the atrocities.

So if you want to blame defending the innocent that can't help themselves, then YES religion does cause war.

But religion didn't come through Hitler evil regime, it came from a Christian people Clothed in compassion, and with the force of defending those who couldn't defend themselves.

Same with the Civil War! Blame it on Christians to not sit back while others were trampled on. Instead over 300,000 people from the North lost their lives or were injured. Over 300,000 gave up someone they loved to help others. They gave up a parent of young children, a spouse in a young family, they gave up physical wholeness in the name of religion. You are absolutely correct!

But let me ask you, what if they didn't?

Side: Theism
1 point

Yes yes*

Side: Theism
Mopac(73) Disputed
1 point

The Truth us God.

Does The Truth make you feel significant or does it reveal just how tiny you are in the grand scheme of things?

The idea that you can keep people from naturally segregating themselves is preposterous.

The idea that you can do away with religion is also a fantasy.

You know what else would end segregation, religion, and human led catastrophe?

Wiping out all of humanity in one movement.

No, God is The Truth, and that means if you love God you love The Truth. If you love The Truth, it should be evident that we all fall short and have been shown much charity. Pass it on, show some charity. Love eachother.

And that is true religion right there.

Side: Theism
Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

That is funny given the sheer volume of murderers committed by atheists in the last 100 years.

Side: Theism
7 points

Nobody will ever never be able to give physical proof that God exist; and nobody will ever be able to give such a proof that God goes not exist due to fact that if God created universe he has to be an outside force which we can not experience since we can not get out of material universe.

What we can do is use our logic and reason to proof if our reasoning about religion and God is logically stable and correct. There are at least two levels to consider when reasoning about the God and religion. The obvious and easier questions when it comes to discussion about God and religion are about particular religions that humanity have come up with during the history. here we can argue about the claims that different religions have come up such as Buddhas or Jesus existence, mythical events like Noah or Moses escape from Egypt, Mohamed's rise to heaven, and so on. I think that to this level belongs even discussion about relation between religions and reasons why there are different religions in the world and why religions come and disappeared during the history.

On this level I wonder why would God wait about 200 000 years before he revealed himself to humans. If one is to believe archeology, humans have existed on earth in form of homo sapience for about 200 000 years. Christianity has been on Earth for about 2000 years, and Islam even shorter than this. Judaism have been somewhat longer, yet it is still just a small fraction of human history during which we are to know the God. We also know for sure that before Judaism there have been other religions such as those of Egyptians, Greeks or Romans. Even before that people have cherished other Gods, which in modern religions is one of biggest sins. Why would God wait for so many thousands years, and allow people to pray to other Gods when it seems such a big deal for him that people praise only Him? It is a contradiction.

If we tackle question from the biblical point and accept that God created Adam & Eve, how come than that those other religions and ancient gods came to be and why he didn't act in time than.

Same apply to fact that other religions exist in different parts of the world. I am thinking about Buddhism, Hinduism, and south-American cultures of Mayas, Incas and Aztecs. According to Judaism, Christianity and Islam it is one of biggest sins to praise other Gods than one that is popularized by those religions. It just does not make sense to believe that either of those three is correct in its claims.

On second, more meta-level there is discussion about necessity of a creator and religion at all. Here belongs questions like "why does universe exist" or "how it become". While I believe we can reason about question on both levels, the first one is obviously easier and second one will include more subjective beliefs. My own standpoint is that we don't need God to explain those questions. It might appear to be handy to have God as an explanation to some existential questions, but it really is not more handy than to have nothing at all. Using God as explanation, as a creator or cause to explain why universe exist is a trivial solution. It just is not satisfactory to a reasonable being to accept such trivial explanations that a higher "non understandable" power has created universe with higher goals in mind which we can't understand or know about but have to accept exist.

But do we really need a creator of a universe? I believe that answer on this question depends on how egoistic as a person one gets. Human beings seems to have need of importance, of being part of something bigger than themselves. Partly it is true, we are all part of nature; but there has to be nothing special in that fact. There is not much more significance in fact that we are part of a nature, as it is in fact that stones, sand, world seas, or a trees in a forest, or Moon or any other particle is also a part of universe. If we can accept that universe just exist, without special purpose or reason, and that world, and life, and finally we as a specie has simply developed because of certain physical laws, that certain answers would be actually possible to answer and world might be a better place. If one really think about it, having a God as an ultimate creator of universe is actually just shifting the problem one step further. If anything that exists has to have a creator, than who created a God. If God does not need a reason to exist, than there is no difference to say that universe does not need a reason (creator) to exist. Those two claims are equivalent and question is which one can accept as an axiom from which to derive the rest of reasoning.

I dare to claim that world would be much better place if we can realize that God is totally unnecessary step in that process since it adds nothing of substance to the universe. Why would world be a better place without a God belongs to another debate :).

Side: Atheism
5 points

If one really think about it, having a God as an ultimate creator of universe is actually just shifting the problem one step further. If anything that exists has to have a creator, than who created a God. If God does not need a reason to exist, than there is no difference to say that universe does not need a reason (creator) to exist. Those two claims are equivalent and question is which one can accept as an axiom from which to derive the rest of reasoning.

Way to freaking go, that is something I've been trying to explain for a while.

Side: Atheism
3 points

We seem to be logical beings evovled into what we are in a material universe where everything has cause and consequence. As such we tend to fill in all gaps and holes or our knowledge the best way we can based on our experience of that universe. God as explanation is easy (and trivial) one that gives answer on many problems which we are/were anable to unswer. People believed that Sun is circling around the Earth, and that Earth is a disk from which one could fall down. There is no difference in other matters, albeit certain one are probably impossible to answer since we can't get physical evidence to support any of theories (such as if there is God or not). Also religion has offered a simple trivial answers about world which maybe were needed in a certain period of human history. Today there are much better answers and no need to rely on dogmatic dictatorship such as religion offer.

Side: Atheism
3 points

An actually very lame argument considering the universe is physical, and therefore has to obey physical laws that would be broken by an evolutionary explanation.

God, on the other hand, is immaterial, and therefore is not bound by physical laws such as a regress.

Side: Theism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

There's no nice way to say it, this is stupid. If the universe were eternal, it would break down through entropy. It must have had a beginning as it is undergoing entropy, the entropy started at a point in time........and it wasn't the stupid singularity which was nothing but it exploded and tuned into you.

The Bible answered this stupidity 2000 years ago......."they worship and serve the creature (created thing) rather than the creator". You're trying to equate the universe with God, the created thing with the creator. There is no comparison.

Side: Theism
3 points

Your argument is self-contradictory since without God, logic and reason don't make sense. Why? because you can't empirically test them without using them, which is circular reasoning, therefore you argument is ludicrous

Side: Theism
1 point

Yes yes*

Side: Atheism
1 point

Could not have put it better. We don't understand all the laws of the universe and energy but that means we haven't worked them out yet. May be human beings can never explain all things. Yes some people may attribute unknown and undiscovered laws of energy or the universe to god, they can also blame the fairies. It is creative and imaginative and a very human response to unknown dilemmas and questions. The questions you pose about god cannot be answered because all religions are based on faith. Why do we need this? to reassure ourselves because many people cannot face up to the fact that they are just another animal species and part of a natural process that will start and finish.

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

If you want to be an animal, then by all means be an animal. That means you are no better than the turkey I ate on Thanksgiving day. I'm a man, made in the image of God. You can be a turkey if you want to.

Side: Theism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

You think the world would be a better place without religion?

That's pretty narrow. You must not know the depth of possitive impact religion has had in communities, in families, and in the lives of individuals.

If you withdrawal religion you should not assume that people would act on the inspirations they have acted on. Now for this example I want to stick just with Christian faiths, and not cults, like Westborough Baptist, or others, and not other religions like Islam, not even Judaism. I think that's fair, because stereo typing any world view is inaccurate and unfair. So you can't lump them together.

If you want take each separate and tell me all about the picture without it! And if you feel the need to include crusades, then please do complete homework and describe why Christians were there to begin with.

It's like the old popular Christmas movie "it's a wonderful life"

At first glance you don't see the impact of life without something or someone. So honestly evaluate a real picture without it, and without the Christians who did things they did because of the influence particuarly of Jesus in their lives.

Why is America here? What motivated us to be us?

And also while convincing me avoid the meaningless arguments everyone "uses" of small groups that acted outside of Christian teachings. Like Salem witch hunts, or the grand # of about 8 random individuals at random times who independently assaulted abortion clinics.

Because obviously I'm looking for a factual and reasonable argument from you to back your statements!

Side: Theism
Mopac(73) Disputed
1 point

The Truth is God.

If you are asking for proof, you are asking for truth.

If you believe in truth, no truth could be unless The Truth was in it.

The evidence for God is all around you. When you ask for God to be proven, it is like asking "prove yo me that it is true that there is such a thing as truth!"

It doesn't take someone particularly smart to see this is an unreasonable demand.

The problem here is mistaken identity.

The Truth is God.

Side: Theism
Viceregent(413) Disputed
1 point

Prove these claims, snowflake? Or should we take them as evidence you are mentally ill?

Side: Theism
1 point

First of all, one can prove a God or Creator exists, just using the universe and logic. You do not need any other explanation. For example. Since the universe is revolving, there has to be somewhere for it to revolve. Since everything is in some form moving, then there has to be a mover for this motion. Therefore, there has to be some divine omnipotence that is constantly doing all the things in the universe.

Secondly, why do we need billions of years to discover or evolve? A short time ago, scientists said that mankind is only a few hundred years old. Now they think that the humans started in the Ape-like form, 6-7 million years ago. Do you think those scientists will continue finding more and more humans fossils for the next 10-20 billion years? Most likely they will stop discovering any "humans" fossils in the next 5 billion years. Will you complain? I doubt it.

Thirdly, why does there have to be one ultimate Creator? If the physical world is all one - yes, it revolves - it is moving - what about all those atoms? Are all those atoms moving? What forces do those atoms have to move by themselves? Can it be one material, flowing physical world without an ultimate divine essence that is the energy behind it all?

Also, what do you mean by "why would God wait about 200 000 years before he revealed himself to humans"? Is religion created in one day, or God in one day? Do the trees just grow big one day, or do they have to grow day by day? Do they grow bigger with each passing day? Do they have a certain age limit? They might have 50-70 years, but not much more, because that is all that is given to them. Why should our religious ideas be any different? Why should a God has to reveal himself to humans in this specific time frame? Did He needs to wait until we became more intelligent, or until we learned to speak or ...?

When Adam ate from the tree, does that mean God lost something? Then what? And does this mean that God now owes us anything? Is that why we are praying? Is that why humans want to please Him, or should we please Him just because of the fact that He is the Creator and He deserves that?

Also, you should not need to rely on other religions for your argumentation, because each religion has the right to persuade a person to believe in its ideas. That is the difference, rather than the fact that one religion believes in the existence of God and the other one doesn't. Like Judaism, Islam and Christianity were at war with each other hundreds of years ago, they are now spreading the same message: "God exists". Since you are using the Bible to argue, then you have to accept that the Bible is an absolute truth and you have to believe in God and accept Christianity. The Torah is for Jews, the Qur'an is for Muslims, and the Bible is for Christians.

And about the other religions: they are talking about the same Creator. Although you might believe they are talking about some God that is not talking about the same God as the one in the Bible, yet they are talking about the same God. That's why they are divided in so many different religions, because all those people might be saying something different, but nevertheless they are speaking about the same thing, and they are all speaking about the same Creator, same Maker, and same Master.

Dear friend, you are very wrong, and you need to stop giving those false ideas, because only God knows what is good for you.

Side: Theism
6 points

He almost undoubtedly does not .

Side: Atheism
Lynaldea(1231) Disputed
4 points

You obviously doubt Gods existence, why? If there were a situation where you could ask God one question, what would it be?

Side: Theism
5 points

He should know me inside and out. He would know what I'd ask and why is be asking it. Given that, he should just give me an answer outright.

But if you must know I'd ask how he can let this dispute over his existence continue if he does undoubtedly exist. How he can expect a shitty storybook of absurdities written thousands of years ago and a universe that appears natural in every way to convince people a divine being exists; and how he can punish people for not believing in him given this information AND that he plans all of our heretic lives from start to finish.

There's much, MUCH more. But in the end, id rather go to hell than live amongst a jelous, egomaniacle, bloodthirsty, hypocritical, arrogant, scumbag like him.

But he almost undoubtably doesn't exist.

Side: Theism
ds229(29) Disputed
1 point

I would ask him "Why do you expect us to believe that you exist if you don't show yourself in a confirmable way"?

Side: Atheism
CreateAFakeD Disputed
-2 points
timber113(796) Disputed
4 points

How the hell did you get five votes for one sentence. This is proof that atheists on this site vote fo the sake of voting

Side: Theism
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
2 points

Isn't that the point of voting? Just to pop a point to a person you agree with? So what if my argument was a sentence or an essay, people agree ie: up votes. Just because theists often post unpointworthy arguments doesn't mean we're ruining the site.

Side: Atheism
Sitara(11080) Disputed
1 point

Prove it. .

Side: Theism
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
6 points

There's nothing to prove. I'm not saying he doesn't exist for sure. Just that he almost surely doesn't exist but I don't know for sure.

I can, however, support this opinion for you:

The Big Bang

Evolutionary theory

Abiogenesis

Biblical errors, absurdities, and lack of proof

Lack of physical evidence for god

Ect ect ect.

All of these and more point to the conclusion that there probably isn't a god. I'm too lazy to write a 3 page essay on this (because there's that much evidence and more). I point you to a chapter in The God Delusion titled "why there almost undoubtedly is no God".

Side: Atheism
Mopac(73) Disputed
1 point

The Truth is God.

To say, "The Truth almost undoubtedly does not exist" is a self defeating proclamation.

Side: Theism
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
1 point

Thats a bullshit cop out and you know it. Youre just playing word games. You cant just define things into existence.

I could easily say Zeus is equal to truth. if you deny the existence of zeus you deny the existence of truth.

to which you would say "nu uh zeus isnt truth". and then the argument just regresses to "nu uh" "yeah huh" "nu uh".

Nevermind the fact that "truth" is just a concept invented by humans. Its a label assigned to statements. God is not a proposition its a single noun.

Side: Atheism

If there were then I believe he would make himself known to us.

Side: Atheism
Mopac(73) Disputed
2 points

The Truth is God.

You don't have to know The Truth to know The Truth exists.

Side: Theism
6 points

Probably. probably not. No human can say absolutely one way or another. If the theists can, they aren't using faith they're using proof. If the atheists can they'd be proving something doesn't exist...how?

I'm on the no side because the stories concerning him are too bogus for them to be true.

Side: Atheism

The fact that he doesn't reveal himself like he allegedly used to is strong evidence that he doesn't exist.

Side: Atheism
3 points

He has revealed himself to you, you just chose to reject him, so even if he appeared to you in a flash of light and a voice from heaven, you still would not believe because you love your sin.

Side: Theism
2 points

I'm not a sinner. God is the one who has sinned by not revealing himself. He has not appeared to me in any form that could be identified as God.

Side: Atheism
Lynaldea(1231) Disputed
1 point

Which facts are you referring to? And when you state "God" what do you mean by that? What is your definition of "doesn't reveal himself like he allegedly used to..."

Also, strong evidence against...?

Side: Theism
2 points

Which facts are you referring to?

Have you ever seen him or talked to him? It is a fact that he doesn't reveal himself.

And when you state "God" what do you mean by that?

I didn't state "God," but he's the subject of this debate. If you don't know who he is, you belong on this side.

What is your definition of "doesn't reveal himself like he allegedly used to..."

He no longer talks to people, makes it rain frogs, parts the Red Sea, stuff like that. Why did he stop making his presence known?

Also, strong evidence against...?

Yes. It seems very fishy that he was once so active, then disappeared before we had video cameras.

Side: Atheism
Tim17(103) Disputed
1 point

Well theres a few verses in your bible that states your fairytale revealed himself.

Side: Atheism
Mopac(73) Disputed
1 point

The Truth is God.

If you believe i evidence, you believe in truth. If there is any truth at all, The Truth must be in it.

God is closer than your breath.

Side: Theism
5 points

AGAIN ?!?!?!?!

Side: Atheism

Yes again. Just so I can communocate with you because you havent shown up here that often. So lets debate.

Side: Atheism
5 points

Ahahaha alright! You open with your argument then, would you kindly?

Side: Atheism
5 points

I am so sure he isn't I won't waste my time explaining why. If you feel the need so much to prove to everyone that God does exist you're obviously pretty unsure of yourself and are hoping to convince yourself that you're right. Well I know I am right and need not prove it!

Side: Atheism
Jungelson(3959) Disputed
1 point

Ha! Look at my previous ignorance.. Oh how people change XD

Side: Theism
RightWing11(40) Disputed
1 point

The reason theists seek new believers is because we all want as many people as possible to be saved from their sin... not to convince ourselves.

Side: Theism
Cuaroc(8829) Disputed
1 point

and why would an all powerful being need to create sin in the first place?

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Actually your wrong!!

Jesus loved the world... those who are His share His concerns!

What good is faith if it doesn't act according to faith.

Christian faith specifically is usually the good stuff we see people

do for others.

Sharing our faith is like pulling someone out of a burning building, or warning someone of danger ahead. Taking our time to give our faith, and being concerned enough to make our religion "tangible" for the benefit of others.

We could be selfish, and live for ourselves, and may be YOU would like that. But for everyone who doesn't want to hear it there is another whose life is helped, their families strengthened, their damaged lives made better by the Christians who didn't just live in selfishness, with religion only nene fixing themselves.

So if you don't want to hear it then don't. But don't think because you don't want or need religion, those who have religion to give always have people who need the hope the love and the support of others who live by religion that gives their faith away to others so others benefit!

What would communities look like without the “voice,” and “influence” of the Christian religion?

How many people give their time and talents, and resources because of the impact of Jesus on their own lives. How many people dedicate hours to make a creative Bible camp for the joy of children. Or volunteer Sunday school time to give parents time to renew themselves in services while their children are doing fun activities teaching them God's love and how to care for others, and give role models of the golden rule.

The value Christians in general contribute to the health, and balance, and stability, and support, in the lives of everyone that live in our communities is immeasurable!

No one is perfect, but think of the people you know personaly, many you personally have loved in your own lives.

What touch or impact has religion had in your own personal sphere of experiences?

People who may have had issues, touched by religious influence exercised in their communities. It supports them, challenges them, and often pulls them up.

Religious values have influenced so many people to be better versions of themselves, as fathers and mothers, even when for 1 reason or another they may not have been capable of being better before on their own.

Many people have had strangers walk with them and carry them even when their own families didn't. Strangers who became family to them!

These damaged people don't always arrive to a standard others see as commendable, but the steps taken are leaps in a positive direction for so many of them.. Without Christianity and active Christians where would these people be?

So for everyone of you that wants to force Christians to behind closed doors, realize that if we didn't open the door of our comfortable lives, all those we helped along the way would have stayed broken. And that level of broken would have made your experience in life different too!

Example Christians have a group called Youth with a Mission.

They helped 1000's of drug addicts every year every where. So what I'd they didn't? Even if you personally weren't effected, the results effect you. If someone is addicted they often resort to crime or they are impaired and hurt others on purpose or by accident.

So before you wish faith away consider the cost of its absence!

Side: Theism
Mopac(73) Disputed
1 point

The Truth is God.

If you know The Truth doesn't exist, I know you are wrong!

To say,

"It is truth that there is no truth and I know it!"

Is a self defeating statement.

Side: Theism
5 points

To Dana and anyone else who says that atheists have to prove that God doesn't exist:

Its up to theists to prove that God exists not atheists to prove it doesn't. If I show you a rock in the middle of the USA and say "this keeps away tigers, prove to me it doesn't". I'm going to look like an idiot, which is what you look like everytime you say "prove that God doesn't exist.".

Side: Atheism
2 points

You can't really disprove or prove God completely, There was proof for God, so you as a atheist try to give answers to that.

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
2 points

You can't really disprove or prove God completely, There was proof for God, so you as a atheist try to give answers to that. What is proof for God?

Side: Atheism
riahlize(1573) Disputed
1 point

You can't really disprove or prove God completely,

This type of statement implies a very ignorant understanding of the Burden Of Proof principle.

There was proof for God, so you as a atheist try to give answers to that.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Side: Atheism
Kasilofdan(9) Disputed
2 points

A strong atheist cannot prove anything about the universe or its creation or the existence of GOD Here is why.

A skeptic or atheist is governed by two main principles: 1) all beliefs must be supported by observational evidence, and 2) beliefs that contradict observational evidence cannot be tolerated. However, strong atheism states that there is no god, even though observational evidence indicates that the universe has a cause that cannot be detected observationally. So despite the lack of observational evidence for a naturalistic cause for the universe, the strong atheist believes that the universe has a naturalistic cause and that there is no god, contradicting the tenet that all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence. Hmmmm kind of like finding DNA in a 450 million year old fossil. Impossible to have a fossil 450 million years old with DNA still active. DNA has half life of 521 years and is undetectable due to decay after only 50,000. Clear indication that science is proving the existence of GOD without atheist help. In fact science is severely hurting the atheist cause. So it is pointless to ask a atheist to prove the existence of GOD, it is much better to use there own science against them because for the first time since old Darwin came along with his now debunked theory, science is proving biblical scripture to be very accurate.

Side: Theism
nooby(14) Disputed
1 point

However, strong atheism states that there is no god, even though observational evidence indicates that the universe has a cause that cannot be detected observationally. What evidence? Can you show us evidence that universe is created by a god? :-)

the strong atheist believes that the universe has a naturalistic causeUniverse does not need a cause.

However, typical question you will have to answer if scientist asks you is: what caused God?

all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence. So what is you observational evidence for your belief?

science is proving biblical scripture to be very accurate. Can you point us to that science? Do you mean scientologi? :-) :-) :-)

Side: Atheism
Mopac(73) Disputed
1 point

The Truth is God.

It is impossible to prove the truth doesn't exist, so you are right, it is not reasonable to ask someone to prove that the truth doesn't exist.

But seeing that God exists is a simple matter of recognizing that The Truth is God.

Side: Theism
Oceaneer(13) Disputed
1 point

The Truth is God.

It is impossible to prove the truth doesn't exist, so you are right, it is not reasonable to ask someone to prove that the truth doesn't exist.

That is exactly the same as saying evil is God. It works with pretty much whichever abstract noun you want to throw in there: consciousness, authority, math, sexuality, warmth. It isn't an argument; it's just a metaphor. A play on words.

Side: Atheism
5 points

I don't know for sure if GOD exist or not. But he is just as good as non-existent. Try to fall from a 10th floor to the ground and yell or pray for god to save you. If you survive the fall without a scratch...

And the bibles and koran are just stupids. I value the moral they teach, but I can't comprehend the ridiculous thing they are talking about.

Side: Atheism
5 points

I have questions?

How can the Intelligent Designer not have been Intelligently Designed?

Can you remember before your birth, so why would death be any different?

Does God have human emotion?

Side: Atheism
5 points

god is for idiots .

He knows :D
Side: Atheism
Shemael(381) Disputed
4 points

If God is for idiots, i pity you when you die. I even pity the man in the video. I feel sooooooooo sorry for you all

Side: Theism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
2 points

I feel sooooooooo sorry for you all That's mutual.

Side: Atheism
ds229(29) Disputed
2 points

I feel so sorry for you wasting your life believing in something that cannot be proven. Go and advance science, go support Cancer and other serious disease research. Stop believing in a fairy tale and help out the human race.

Side: Atheism
samuelong135(4) Disputed
1 point

this guy is a idiot and also look like a i idiot that is why he said god is for idiots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZSfqXDOyck

watch before you say anything

Side: Theism
5 points

Ryan Stenger’s modal atheism argument pretty much proves atheism.

A. It is possible that p.

B. Necessarily, if it is possible that God exists, then it is necessary that God exists.

C. Necessarily, if God exists, then it is not the case that p.

D. Therefore, it is not possible that God exists. (from A, B, & C)

Various plugins for P can be used. Like,

1. Evil exists and a God is incompatible with it.

2. Minds can only exist in the physical world.

3. Free non god beings always do what is morally wrong.

4. Omnipotence is impossible

5. Being morally perfect is impossible

6. Omniscience is impossible

7. The universe was created by a non god thing.

It seems counter intuitive, but it works because god is said to be a necessity.

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

This stuff is an exercise in stupidity. The god it invents to argue against is not God. That is the whole point of the argument, to imply that God is not good because he is god and not God. You can only argue against a god who is demoted, dethroned, and no longer God. God is still on His throne and you still need His mercy to keep you out of Hell. If you don't want His mercy, why do you bother to breathe?

Side: Theism
Mopac(73) Disputed
1 point

The Truth is God.

You can't prove that the truth doesn't exist, thus rendering this argument nonsensical.

Side: Theism
4 points

GOD is a figment of your imagination. Only if others would stop being dumbasses maybe we would be ahead in science and technology.

Side: Atheism
4 points

Do we have to settle this with pina coladas to help you understand that god doesn't exist?

Side: Atheism
4 points

God can be a formula that can explain everything in the cosmos but I believe that God with humanity and emotion doesn't exist.

Side: Atheism
4 points

God can be a formula that can explain everything in the cosmos but I believe that God with humanity and emotion doesn't exist.

Side: Atheism
4 points

well if he exsists then why are there so many diferent storys about him

Side: Atheism
BsbSooo(22) Disputed
1 point

Wow, amazing point!

There are different stories about George Washington, 9/11, and China, so all of them must be fake! Wow, you deserve the best argument if the year.

Slow sarcastic clapping

Side: Theism
4 points

which one ?

Side: Atheism
3 points

Although i don't personally believe in a God, religion has served an important role in our history. Religion helped to form law and order and help people diferentiate between good and bad. However religion is now obsolite. People no longer need to fear going to hell for their crimes, they need to fear the police. Fair enough religious teachings may instil good behavior in it's pupils, but to seriously believe in a God with all the scientific facts about evolution and space, in my opinion is ignorance. Sure there is a lot yet to be explained by science, but it will explain more than any God will.

Side: Atheism
3 points

There should be a third choice that says "nobody fucking knows!". Anybody who strongly supports either theism or atheism is a doofus.

Side: Atheism
3 points

I am starting to think that there is no God. If there was, my life would not suck.

Side: Atheism
Srom(12206) Disputed
1 point

LOL! You would post on this debate!! hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Side: Theism
Sitara(11080) Disputed
2 points

Yeah, it is so funny that my life sucks ass. I am done with god. .

Side: Atheism
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I knew a man, forget what caused him to be in his predicament, forget if it was by disease or by accident, it was more than 25 years ago I sat and talked with him.

He was a total quadriplegic, tiny man in a wheel chair with arms and legs withered from not being used. He depended on people to feed him, to roll him in his bed so he would not get bed sores, to change his diaper or carry him to bathe, to brush his teeth. The man spoke with a twinkle of joy in his eyes, mixed with sorry, saying "I often ask God, why me? But then I know I'll find out one day when I am in Heaven, so it's ok, this is what God wants for me so I'll take it from his hand and trust Him to bring me through." The man asked for no sympathy, he only asked for a few moments of my time to tell me to trust God no matter what, and I am still thankful for having the opportunity to have talked with that man.

Side: Theism
3 points

Weres the vidence that there is somehow a large bearded patriarch that created the universe? Exactly, its just as likely that it was a flying spaggetti monster.

Side: Atheism
Intangible(4934) Clarified
2 points

IT WAS THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! FSM IS DISPLEASED. YOU WILL FEEL THE WRATH OF HIS NOODLY APPENDAGES!

Side: Theism
3 points

Atheism is the default position to the claim that any god or gods exist until evidence proportional to that claim is presented. Atheism is more rational than theism because there is no evidence that any deity does or has ever existed.

Side: Atheism

God was made by man. Evolution proves it. 6 million years ago, when hominids appeared they didn't worship god. All of the sudden when civilization forms we do.

Side: Atheism

The Bible has many errors. The Bible says describes Adam and Eve as Homo sapiens. Homo Sapiens evolves at least 400'000 years ago. The first Humans evolved from an ape along with Chimps, 6 million years ago, we call them hominids or pronto humans. They didn't worship god. That's a biblical error.

Side: Atheism

The bible says that the Great Flood happened 2-3,000 years ago. The great flood did happen, but when the ice age ended. When all the ice caps melted in the ice age, water level sky rocketed.

Side: Atheism

Jesus is a fraud. His story shares a lot of similarities with Horus, Hercules, and Krishna.if Jesus Christ was a savior he wouldn't have let Hitler kill off his own people, Jewish people. Jesus is so called a "god among men", he would have saved his own people from being killed off. But Christians says that the devil produced the holocaust. It's just a petty excuse to this "God's" errors. That's one reason why I'm Atheist.

Side: Atheism
QuestionMan(604) Disputed
2 points

Jesus is a fraud. His story shares a lot of similarities with Horus, Hercules, and Krishna.

Let me go point to point.

Firstly Horus was not born from a virgin. I would secondly like to point out Jesus was probably not born on December 25 and the true date is unknown but somewhere from 6 BC-0 BC. The claim Jesus is a Rip-off of Horus came from (or at least popularized)a 2007 movie called Zeitgeist and gained popularity among some Atheists and spread among the web. The movie Zeitgeist is widely criticized for it's factual errors.

Thirdly and lastly Horus did not have 12 followers he had 4 Heru-Shemsu or followers of Horus and at some point of the story they reference 16 followers of Horus. Horus had mesnui who were followers who went with him into battle but nowhere did he have 12 followers.

Side: Theism
3 points

I do not hate on people that do believe in god, but I don't. I find it hard to believe there is some magical giant man living in the sky so far I can't see. I believe in heaven though. In a way it makes sense that people believe in god. They need something to make them feel important or significant. I do, however, believe there is something, but I think of it more as a force than a god or person.

Side: Atheism
3 points

Religion started off as an explanation for things that people couldn't understand. It has developed, over time, into Christianity among other religions. If miracles are possible, answer me this: how are those miracles preformed? If you say "God made the miracles happen" than how could he do it? There is no logical explanation. Science is this: Lack of evidence or logic=We don't know yet. Theism is this: Believe in tradition, anything that contradicts tradition is not true. People who believe in that mindset, you are being ignorant about logic, evidence and science in general.

Side: Atheism

If there was such a supreme being as God, why would he hide himself from the world? And if we're talking about the christian God, why would he not show himself, but give eternal hell to those who don't believe in the story.

There are so many details like this one, that don't fit.

Side: Atheism
UpForDebate(25) Disputed
1 point

An all powerful God doesn't have to show himself to us. And a righteous God would have to punish any unrighteousness. And God created us to have the choice of belief in him, so obviously anyone who doesn't accept his truth is unrighteous in his sight, therefore, he must punish it with eternal separation from him. Does that tell you what you need to know?

Side: Theism
3 points

It makes sense to assume that everything has a cause. The universe is the totality of all that exists. God is the cause of the universe. It makes no sense to say that the universe was caused by an entity in the universe. Therefore god is outside of the universe. Therefore god does not exist.

Side: Atheism
UpForDebate(25) Disputed
1 point

Just because there is a God outside of the universe, doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

Your argument is blinded by what you want to believe.

There are things that we will never be able to understand, that doesn't mean that things don't exist.

Side: Theism
3 points

God is an imaginary figure created by people who don't want to think and do research due to pure laziness. Science is the physical evidence around us. Things that we can hold, touch, feel, smell. To live in fear for your your entire life that this figure is going to send you to a pit of fire is useless. Another thing is let your children grow up and decide for THEMSELVES. Introduce them to religions (of course when they're old enough to understand) and they take it from there.

Side: Atheism
3 points

Honestly, I'm going to give an analogy my friend gave me in an example conversation, knowing I didn't believe in god. Its called the unicorn analogy.

We see horses all of the time. You my friends can touch a horse, photograph a horse, feel a horse, right? So you assume a horse exists.

Now, take a unicorn. You don't see unicorns walking around in the middle of the woods. At most you see someone put a birthday hat on a horse. So, you don't assume they exist.

God is like the unicorn.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Only idiot can believe in gods of fairies .

Side: Atheism
tomcruise55(17) Disputed
2 points

And only an idiot would take the time out of his day to dispute it, or you might just be a virgin.

Side: Theism

What what idiot they are .

Side: Atheism

Why would he? Why not the flying spaghetti monster or some giant bird who lives underground and controls everything.

Side: Atheism
2 points

I honestly don't think so. Simply because there never was presented any evidence for him. Only source of "God's myth" are stone age misunderstandings and bronze age mythology.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Does God exist ? No, well at least I don't think so , but does Jesus exist ? Maybe , but he should be remembered as history and not advocated into beliefs , people should let go of this because its just another illusion to make you believe there's is another exit or make you feel like you are not alone , but in fact your soul dies with you when your time comes , and all you can do is just close your eyes and wait for it , surely you can hold your family's hands and pray , but that does not do anything but to make everyone even sadder and you are still all alone .

Maybe the fact was that "they just want to remember him forever" then people took it the wrong way and made him God and started worshiping him .

Why can't he just be remembered ? why does he have to be worshiped?

I asked my mother(who believes in Buddha) the same,but she replies

"because some people actually saw them,gave them a hand when they're in the need of it .",then she asked me not discuss this any further because this may offend someone .

So should I believe anything just because some people may or may not experienced ? I don't think so , you can't be serious just to believe it because your friends or neighborhoods told you so, because if you do then you aren't believing anything but following blindfold .

I'll believe all this when I actually see it with my own eyes , awake , not heard it or saw it from some people or books , or even from the dreams .

(Please forgive me if there's any mistakes in my comment , English wasn't my first language)

Side: Atheism
2 points

for having no prove AT ALL.. how can you believe something when you can't see? or hear? i just don't get it

Side: Atheism
2 points

Wanna really hear God speaking? Just take your car, better your bycicle, and ride to the closest park or forest to your house, then, when a bird will sing, or a wolf willl howl, you will know God's voice. God is nature, and we are definitely kill him.

Side: Atheism
2 points

God doesn't exist because, I mean...HOW DO WE EVEN KNOW IF THERE'S A GOD IF WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN ONE?? Like for real guys, when people first roamed this earth, who made up a word called "GOD?" The apes probably just thought that there had to be a creator so they made up a name and SUPPOSED that there even WAS creator of this world. WHICH I HIGHLY AND EXTREMELY DOUBT IT. And also, if the Bible consists of humans, and the Earth first started out with all the Dinosaurs and other things like fish and Cackaroaches, WELL THEN GUESS WHAT? APPARENTLY HUMANS ROAMED THE EARTH FIRST BECAUSE GOD IS SAID TO BE A HUMAN, RIGHT???? Well im done now bye

Side: Atheism
2 points

Although there's millions around the world who disagree because of "miracles", they have no proof that any of their gods exist. Science has more than enough proof to back up their theories, but all Theists have is what they read in books and what elders have told them.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Since there's no middle ground for agnostic, I should say that intelligent design is as stupid as mosquitoes or any other parasites. That shit is not intelligent. If an intelligent creator designed them to control populations, this intelligent designer... SUCKS! Surely there should be a more painless way to control populations, but it's too stupid to figure it out.

Moreover, human genitals. What the hell are those about? Why can't the 'intelligent' designer make it so that menstrual blood could be voluntarily released through the urethra? Why not give the male genital area better protection?

Side: Atheism
2 points

If God does exist he is incredibly non interventionist ,I find it quiet baffling that a belief in something you can't see ,touch ,or hear is even labelled as God ...hope fully some time in the future if you make such claims men dressed in white coats will come and take such individuals away for treatment

Side: Atheism
2 points

if god existed we would all be dead. in the bible he says that punishment for sin is death and that all have sinned. so therfore if he existed he would kill us and we would all be in hell. all you theists have your heads up your butts when you deny the facts in front of your face. go live on an island

Side: Atheism
AuntieChrist(803) Clarified
1 point

There's actually a loophole. If you have faith in Jesus, who didn't even have faith in God, even though he is God, you get away with doing whatever you want and all is A-OK when you croak.

Side: Theism
2 points

ONLY IN YOUR WET DREAMS CUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS #BANTER #YOLO #TRUE STORY BRO

Side: Atheism
2 points

CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS CUSS

Side: Atheism
2 points

If a theist has any proof outside of the bible, let them speak.

... No? Okay well then we will continue doing science now...

Side: Atheism
AngryGenX(463) Disputed
1 point

Amino Acids can not randomly combine to create protein molecule, more or less a living cell. No known natural process can explain the generation of the first living things on earth. The natural creation of even the molecules to create life violates the laws of thermodynamics. All natural processes convert chemicals from high organization to high chaos, simpler molecules. That is the reason why, after millions of years of death on earth. It would take large amounts of directed focused energy to create the first living cells on the planet. Without organization, the creation of a single protein has the same odds as a tornado going through a scrapyard and assembling a working Boeing 747.

See the Law of Biogenesis. Scientific laws essentially prove the existence of a higher power.

Side: Theism
Cartman(18192) Disputed
3 points

I will try to help you out here.

Amino Acids can not randomly combine to create protein molecule

This is more or less false. There have been experiments that were able to demonstrate that nucleobases and amino acids can form spontaneously. We can't rule out proteins being able to form.

more or less a living cell.

This is a massive jump in the evolutionary cycle so it seems incredibly difficult to imagine the possibility. Over the course of millions of years simple molecules can become more complex. The problem you have with a cell is that you assume it is done randomly. A cell isn't created randomly now, and the very first cell wouldn't have to be a random event where the molecules all came together. The smaller "complex" molecules that have been forming for many many years could have created it in a "designed" way that is less random.

No known natural process can explain the generation of the first living things on earth.

But, just because it isn't known yet doesn't mean God did it.

The natural creation of even the molecules to create life violates the laws of thermodynamics.

This misconception comes from not recognizing the Earth is not a closed system. The Earth receives energy from the sun. Any life that spontaneously forms could have received its energy from the sun, directly or indirectly. Plus, the Earth's core contains a massive amount of energy that can be harnessed.

Without organization, the creation of a single protein has the same odds as a tornado going through a scrapyard and assembling a working Boeing 747.

This is true for a specific protein. If you pick any protein around today, the odds are insurmountable. But, if we talk about any possible protein chain, including incredibly small proteins, the odds become very likely.

See the Law of Biogenesis.

The law of Biogenesis is not as rock solid as you seem to believe. No one has proven that it is impossible for life to come from non life in all cases. With one act of abiogenesis where small nucleotides and amino acids formed spontaneously you have the life needed for the law of biogenesis to be valid.

Scientific laws essentially prove the existence of a higher power.

The higher power would have to break the law of biogenesis as well, so you haven't fixed anything.

Side: Atheism
Nox0(1393) Disputed
1 point

There is no law of bio-genesis, your pseudo argument looks quite silly, you obviously know shit about biochemistry.

Side: Atheism

Yep... ..

Side: Atheism
2 points

yolo you dont go to heaven yolo yolo yolo yolo yolo yolo You Only Live Once

Side: Atheism
2 points

If God knows everything, then the concept of free will does not exist.

If God can do anything, then why weren't the Malaysian Plane victims saved? Why wasn't the Oso mudslide stopped? Why are there earthquakes and tsunamis and fires that kill people? Why is there poverty and child abuse and war?

Because:

a) God is a cruel God, willing to let people, including children, suffer.

OR

b) God does not exist.

Sources: http://www.wikihow.com

(I know wikis aren't very reliable sources, but they had great points on there.)

Also, I'd like to add on:

Most of theists' arguments are based on the Bible or other //religious// things. Whereas the atheist side has given plenty of //scientific// proofs. I'd like the theists to know that we atheists won't believe you or take your points seriously until you:

a) Point out the mistakes in our theories and proofs without any religious sources.

b) Point out a part of a scientific theory that actually supports the idea that God exists.

....Otherwise, we'll just treat it like we would a fairy tale. If you still don't understand:

Without any scientific evidence, we'll believe in God as much as you would believe in Zeus.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Yes! God is in Existence.... Because God himself give Clearer difference of his existence.

1. He creates Man in Which Human Being cannot.

2. God kills and wake, Human cannot.

3. God is at Everywhere! Human being is known at where is Originated. According to Religious/Beliefs.

4. Appearance of Existing God is; he created Man with different individual and inequality of all Beings.

5. All the Leaders of Societies are seeking for his Wisdom, Knowledge & Understanding.

In the light of this few points of mine, everybody should get confused that God is still existing. Thanks!

FEMZYX•

Side: Atheism
2 points

I can't prove god doesn't exist.

Just like I can't prove leprechauns or unicorns don't exist.

- Richard Dawkins

Side: Atheism
2 points

A creator of the energy that surrounds us is possible but we do not have enough information to know. As the human race seeks to find these anwsers through science; i appreciate all the hard work physicists do. I have a hunch that when we have a break through; it will not be as simple as a god or no god but something so vastly incredible our minds will be super physiqued! Maybe; just maybe life is a by product of something larger, more significant and maybe its not. All i do know is that these are just the beginnings of questions; the ethers of curiosity. I LOVE BEING HUMAN AND WOMEN ARE SEXY!

Side: Atheism
2 points

No convincing evidence has been presented to me in favor of a god existing. What is your best argument?

Side: Atheism
2 points

While I do not entirely rule out the possibility, I have not yet been convinced. I have seen numerous lines of evidence, but they mostly rely on base speculation, ignorance and emotional bias. Show me something concrete, and just maybe a believer could be made out of me.

Side: Atheism
2 points

You cannot prove that God (Christian) actually exist. The bible is not a source of proof because you have no idea if that is actually gods words. For all we know the bible could have been written by a bunch of old men. Until you Christians find actual proof of God being real, I will continue to not fully believe in it. I was born and raised Christian and I'm scared to actually let him go, which I why I don't want to FULLY kick him out of my life, but I still don't believe a lot of that stuff.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Ok, so the bible says that being gay is wrong, but rape marriages, child abuse, slavery, misogyny, and war is? Please someone explain that logic to me. The bible says that God loves EVERYONE, gay or not. The bible should not be considered a "moral guidebook" until you can physically prove that God exists.

Side: Atheism

I m not really arguing against a creator. But am gonna assure you that WE are masters of our OWN DESTINY! Sitting around praying for God to solve things is a total useless waste of time. It's up to us and God is not involved with day to day human life. If there is a god then he gave us the brain to solve our own problems.

Side: Atheism
2 points

An equal burden of proof for the side of atheism is unreasonable. There is no reason to need to disprove something that has yet to be proven, only the affirmative claim has to provide proof. Atheists don't make the argument that there is no god, just that there is no reason to believe in one due to lack of evidence.

Side: Atheism
2 points

If you ask most people whether they believe in Unicorns, or Gnomes, they will almost always say they don't.

When you ask them why, they'll usually say that they haven't seen Unicorns or Gnomes before and that there isn't any evidence that they are real.

You'll get the same answer and justification if you bring up gods like Zeus, or Ra, or Mithras, or Odin. These mythical gods are more than fairy tales - people genuinely held beliefs in them -- and yet the majority of people now reject them.

Why can't the same logic be applied to God?

All theists are left with at this point is their scripture. Most often, the Bible.

When you ask someone to defend the divine authority of the Bible, guess what they invoke? Oh yeah, the Bible.

The Bible is true because the Bible says the Bible is true. Totally checks out.

--

We have evolved to attribute phenomenon we see to humans or living entities. If we thought the noise in the grass was a lion, and it was, we were safe. If it wasn't, it didn't matter. If we thought the noise in the grass was the wind, and it was a lion, we were screwed. (essentially this is Pascal's wager). Those who attributed what they saw around them to conscious behavior survived more often, so they eventually took over the gene pool. We are the descendents of those people.

This lead to organized religion, leading to indoctrination, leading to the billions of blind followers we see today.

Side: Atheism

Gods exist only as long as there are people who believe in them. The Greek Gods being a prime example. Case closed. Taking a bow, thank you very much.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Theists are often ignorant when following the words of religious texts. They don't accept the burden of proof, and often use examples of coincidence to explain prayer. But here's an example of prayer that suggests god isn't real. If I went out to church, and prayed for God to end all violence on Earth, to stop poverty, diesease, and other suffering, nothing would change. If I had my entire family do the same, nothing would change. If every single Atheist and Theist prayed to end suffering on Earth, every day, nothing would change for those suffering. Some theists use prayer to make themselves feel better, but it doesn't affect those that they pray for. Theists teach that God cares about everyone, but there are over seven billion people on this planet, and billions of billions of planets in the universe. If God is all-powerful enough to create a universe like our own, he would be powerful and moral enough to end suffering in it as well. Religion is a lie create by those who wish to gain recognition or power, not by those who wish to make a better Earth.

Side: Atheism
2 points

Most arguments supporting Theism state the fact that the world is so amazing, it must have a creator. We forget one very simple fact, no one has counted the failed attempts. To be more exact, theories suggest the existence of a multiverse or recurring universes. In an infinite number of universes with an infinite combination of people, it is not only possible but probable that the universe we are living in will be formed. We just happen to only exist in this one. And because of the nature of the other ones, we could never exist in them or know they existed.

The fact is, the belief in god stands as little more than a simple way of explaining the unknown and incomprehensible. There is so much we cannot even imagine, merely because our brains are too tiny and too simple. Though we cannot comprehend it, it still is science without God. Just because you cannot imagine the size of a cell, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Side: Atheism
1 point

There isn't any proof of a "God", faith isn't reason. Can you see, hear, small, feel, or any kind of reason to support that there is a God. Saying there is a God is like me saying i can shoot fire from my mouth but only when no one is looking.

Side: Atheism
1 point

I won't assert that God (the one in any of the currently practiced religions) does not exist, but I will say the chance is so low that it's safe to assume he doesn't. Science has disproved religion on numerous occasions, proving the Bible is a book of metaphors and fairy tales. To still believe the Bible is right about God is kind of ridiculous. It's like saying "I understand a lot of the stories in the Bible are up to not only interpretation, but are meant to be metaphors, turning the Bible into a work of fiction, but hey let's still believe a couple of the things in it."

I haven't personally seen anything that supports the existence of God, so I will say it is safe to assume he probably doesn't exist.

Side: Atheism

Allies and enemies should note I'm an Atheist now. That is all.

Side: Atheism
1 point

I think that humans do not want to believe that after life is just a blank slate with no remembrance or recollection of your previous life. People want to believe that their life on earth is not completely worthless and insignificant in respect to Earth's existence. Realistically, God is just the answer to the things that people don't have answers for, but I don't think God necessarily has to deal with morals, sacrificing, and purifying.

Side: Atheism
1 point

I was watching a documentary last night (1/4/2016). It was about a famous POW rescue in the Philippines. After the rescue, the Japs made a revenge attack on the local town, killing everyone in it for the probability that they assisted in the rescue. The largest number of bodies were found in the towns church where people fled for safety. "God will protect us!" (That's what they were taught by the devout, but naïve, Pastor). HE, however unwittingly, caused the deaths of many who may have escaped into the jungle. "God" did nothing to protect them "IN HIS HOUSE"! Same thing, on a smaller scale, happened in that SC Church a few weeks ago. Many give "God" credit for a "miracle" when one survives out of many. No outrage that the "many" died and HE did nothing to save them. If a "god" like that exists, I would not follow S/HE/IT simply because it is such a cruel "god". We ALWAYS see more tragedy than we do "miracles". If I were a "god" running a Universe, I would do a far better job protecting my "creations" or I would consider myself cruel and vicious with a truly SADISTIC form of "love"! Enjoy your maker! To me S/HE/IT doesn't deserve "worship". If I showed people the "love" he shows, I'd be executed!

Side: Atheism
1 point

There isn't a "sitting on the fence option", so I'll just put my view on this here.

Let's say that God is real. Adam and Eve we're the first humans on earth, Jesus did die for our sins, there was a huge flood, and so on. Let's say that in this universe where God is definitely real and is all-powerful, all-good, and knows everything, people begin to question his motives, such as "Why does God let bad things happen? Why does he kill others? What is his ulterior motive for doing this?".

This can't be countered by reminding them of the incident of Adam and Eve, where they we're tempted by Satan to eat the apple on the forbidden tree. They won't believe in this story because if God was all-powerful, he would have definitely stopped Satan. However, it can be countered by saying that God didn't want us to be robots. By this, I mean that he wanted us to make our own decisions and think for ourselves in order to prove that we do care for him and are willing to stick with him throughout the tests that he gives us. (A good example of this is in the story of Job in the Bible, where a mans faith was pushed to it's limits when he lost his wealth, friends, and family, but kept believing in God.) People also hear from God, as he will help them in harsher situations or explain things to them more often.

Now, let's go over to the other reality where God does not truly exist. Many people are against this ideology and the religions that surround it because of many different reasons.

The main reason that people do not actually believe in God is because of the huge amount of religions that surround it. Lots of religions are based on a God, but not all of these can actually be true. Catholics, Protestants, Anglicanism, Methodism, Pentecosts, Quakers, even radical groups, all differ in their own ways. If God was truly real, he would direct the people to the right religion. This wouldn't make them robots, and would only influence one part of their life. People in this reality also disagree with the culture that surrounds the religions. They don't like the attitudes that some have, those often being related to gun crimes, same sex marriage, war, circumcisions, and the ten commandments. They do not think an all powerful, all knowing God would test people this way or should test them at all.

The question will never be answered though. The debate really is pointless. There will never be a definitive, truthful answer to it until we're all dead. And maybe we won't even know the answer then. A fun one to talk about, mind you.

Side: Atheism
1 point

god is nowhere and made of nothing. f f f f f f ff f f f f f f ff ff f fff ff f f f f f f f f ff f f ff f

Side: Atheism
KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Please elaborate on your investigation

If you have not completed an honest investigation then you are rassuming. And assuming based on others assumptions doesnt convince anyone. You are obviously angry about God.

There is probably something on your life that is angry at God if He does exist.

So if God did exist what about Him.makes you angry?

Side: Theism
1 point

I can't figure out how you create something out of nothing. If nothing but "God" existed he would first have to create the metals and minerals and gasses, turn them into compounds, and ,,,, did he breath air that didn't exist?? Hard to do when he created "US" in His own image.?? And why create "billions and billions" of other planets and suns, and moons, comets and space rocks?? Black holes and dark matter?

He was a bad influence on his creations. Now we go around creating lies and stories about our fellow "creations". I think he should go back to the drawing board and get rid of everything unnecessary. (Wait, that would make him a Libertarian. Forget I mentioned it.)

Side: Atheism
UpForDebate(25) Disputed
0 points

God is all powerful and all knowing. He has created all things and all matter. You are not able to fathom the creativity of our all-knowing Father. You could never possibly understand why God does a lot of what He does. But He is God, He has to explain NOTHING to you, or me, or anyone else. He doesn't need air. Just because He created us in his image doesn't mean we have the same functions as He does. Keep in mind the word 'image' doesn't mean ways we survive or live. He created all planets and moons, and comets to show His imagination and creativity. All things, in the end, are a way to glorify Him and to show us more proof for the evidence of our God.

Your hate-speech towards God will destroy you in the end, and keep you in eternal separation from Him. I pray that someday the scales will be removed from your eyes. God bless you ;)

Side: Theism
AlofRI(3294) Clarified
1 point

I made no "hate speech toward God". Simply not believing in "YOUR GOD" IS NOT HATE SPEECH.

Side: Theism
1 point

nihilism is the meaning of life because

Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism.

It has been over a century now since Nietzsche explored nihilism and its implications for civilization. As he predicted, nihilism's impact on the culture and values of the 20th century has been pervasive, its apocalyptic tenor spawning a mood of gloom and a good deal of anxiety, anger, and terror. Interestingly, Nietzsche himself, a radical skeptic preoccupied with language, knowledge, and truth, anticipated many of the themes of postmodernity. It's helpful to note, then, that he believed we could--at a terrible price--eventually work through nihilism. If we survived the process of destroying all interpretations of the world, we could then perhaps discover the correct course for humankind.

god is not real

Side: Atheism
Dermot(5736) Disputed
2 points

Nietzsche had a lot to say for himself and a lot of his “ philosophical “ arguments are little more than him airing his personal grievances against Christianity ; all of what you say might hold sway with individuals who claim to be armchair philosophers for me Nietzsche was interesting to a point but he was also barking mad and spent a good part of his life in an asylum for the insane

Side: Theism
1 point

Although I respect religious people, I do not think God exists.

You might say, if there was no God, then how was the universe created? Then, I'll say: nobody knows. If you're saying that God created the universe, then God came before the universe? That doesn't make sense.

If God didn't create the universe, then God created the Earth. I say: I believe the Earth was created by the Big Bang. Also, if God created the Earth, and the humans, and all the animals at the same time, then why weren't there any humans or a bunch of the animals when dinosaurs existed?

God is up in the sky, watching over us. I say: the only thing I see in the sky are clouds, above the clouds airplanes, and above airplanes outer space. I don't see anything in the sky apart from clouds and airplanes. I don't see any people, or any gates in the clouds, either.

Side: Atheism
ylinares09(20) Disputed
1 point

The ignorance in all of this is pretty clear. Of course you can't see god he's a spiritual being. If God didn't exist then how is one capable to feel guilty or love or any type of feeling. You can not expect that cells make up feelings or neurons.. it's God he created Adam and Eve to love and to value, without God we don't have existence. And what about the numerous of evidence presented from people who have allegedly died and gone to heaven, of course you may say oh a hoax but out of the thousands it can't be a hoax some have to be true. For the past 10,000 years at a minimum, the most important changes in human existence have been driven by cultural developments occurring in the realm of human ideas, God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us.Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

Jesus Christ reveals God to us - Photo of a man reading the Bible to learn more about Jesus Christ.He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16

Side: Theism
-1 points

We can all agree there is right and wrong. How something like the Holocaust is wrong. We have a moral standard. God exists, at least as a concept which represents the right side of something. What I can think is this is science vs morals. You can't deny the fact that science is correct. Morals also exist, but there are examples of morals clashing with science. Thinking off the top of my head, I use genetic engineering as an example. Is it ethical to use it on humans. Is it unethical to not use it when it can hold the key to saving lives? Also, many theories of science aren't proven, so technically, it isn't correct. When you say "God created the universe", where is the proof? How can an entity that can't be perceived have created our reality? Also issues like Hitler mass murdering Jews and other people existing contradicts a loving God. Why would evil exist in this world if God exists? If God doesn't exist, how could righteousness exist? How would we know right from wrong? Killing your neighbor wouldn't be wrong because it benefits you when you take their stuff. Humans are capable of the good side towards each other because God represents the good in human society towards each other. Because there is a right, there is also a wrong. That wrong is what benefits an individual, while the right is good for everyone. God is the good in everyone in one entity.

Side: Atheism
1 point

We can all agree there is right and wrong. How something like the Holocaust is wrong.

Listen to what you are saying. If we all agreed it was wrong it could never have happened.

Side: Theism