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Debate Info

19
25
Yes No
Debate Score:44
Arguments:36
Total Votes:44
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (15)
 
 No (16)

Debate Creator

DrawFour(2662) pic



Does God mess with free will?

Why do you feel for the side you choose?

Yes

Side Score: 19
VS.

No

Side Score: 25
2 points

Some humans can't do everything that they want, because of lack of talent, mental illnesses or injuries.

Side: Yes
Sportyfun1(84) Disputed
2 points

I'm pretty sure free will was like NOT being controlled or forced to do something God wants. He says he WANTS us to be with him and do the right thing.

Side: No
ProLogos(2793) Disputed
1 point

I do not get what you are saying.

Side: Yes
TheDumbOx11(6) Disputed
1 point

Free will is not the ability to do anything we want. It is the ability to choose between the things we can do.

Free will is not something that only GOD has.

Side: No
2 points

It really depends on who you ask. But for the most part Christians tend to say God is all knowing which pretty much means that humans don't have free will.

Side: Yes
Sportyfun1(84) Disputed
2 points

Sorry, but that's not what we mean. All knowing just means that he knows everything, like when you sit down and when you stand up. He knows when you're sad and when you're happy, and when you're hurt or wounded. Plus, let me ask you this: have you been recently forced to do something you didn't want to do {spirit-wise} by God? Good luck and I hope you learn more about our Amazing God. {I wasn't being sarcastic. I really meant it.}

Side: No
2 points

Since heaven is eternal, it is implied that making a mistake in heaven gets you sent to hell. This implies that there is no free will in Heaven, as people would surely be giving in to sin if left to their own devices.

Strange how the only state of life where our sins have consequences is also the only one we can demonstrably prove.

Side: Yes
Sportyfun1(84) Disputed
2 points

Actually, when we go to heaven we get "our hearts cleaned." So, we can't sin when we go to heaven. We have a new form where there is no aging and sin. If we kept our own hearts, no one would be in heaven. Yet another thing you just have to believe.

Side: No
MuckaMcCaw(1970) Disputed
2 points

Actually, when we go to heaven we get "our hearts cleaned."

If that doesn't equate to abolishing will, then why not do it in the first place. Either he is absolving free will in Heaven or allowing unnecesicary suffering on Earth.

Yet another thing you just have to believe.

Simply put, "just believing" something is poor judgement. Living that way makes it easy to be scammed and otherwise duped. You should always have reasons to leave, and not just emotional ones.

Side: Yes
Debater345(170) Disputed
2 points

You do know that in heaven the bible says that we will be so shocked by his glory that we will worship him forever and the pleasure of sin will never come close to the joy of worshipping God

Side: No
MuckaMcCaw(1970) Clarified
1 point

So...his very presence precludes free will?

Side: Yes

If God wishes too then he can. He probably has and has probably done so for a good reason.

Side: Yes
Sportyfun1(84) Disputed
2 points

Yes, you said he CAN. But have you been forced to do something {spirit-wise} that you didn't want to do?

Side: No
Amarel(5669) Disputed
1 point

Birth. It was beyond my choice / beyond my will. I never had the option to not be created.

Side: Yes
1 point

How would I know? I could be forced to think the way I do know and my very beliefs are being controlled. I wouldn't know. Maybe or maybe not.

Side: Yes

If miracles exist, then yes. He does. He also 'messes' with our free will by telling his believers to spread the word of what happens if you do not 'willfully' believe in him. If he leaves you with the option (A) believe in me and do as I say; heaven. Or (B) If you don't do as I say and refuse to believe in me (willfully); hell. Duress can control ones will.

If a guy holds a shotgun to a woman's kids, then ask her to not scream or they'll die, and, of course, she does not scream, would you consider her to have free will to scream? (These are her offspring that we are talking about.)

Side: Yes
1 point

He creates free will then punishes people for using it.. hmmmm

Then only intervenes sometimes in the most stupid way possible

Side: Yes
1 point

God does not exist.

The bible is just a bunch of made up stories used to control people

Side: Yes

If you are trying to argue the question of predestination vs free will, I agree with free will. Predestination is the foreknowledge of what we choose.

Side: No
DrawFour(2662) Clarified
1 point

Don't take this as me having a go at you, I'm stating this for everyone's benefit, please do not make any assumptions, of what I mean. Take literally what the title says, and anything I explain further in the description, that way we can keep the results as unbiased as possible, with no answers that are based on assumptions.

Side: Yes
ironman34698(235) Clarified
1 point

Very well then. To clarify my position, I believe each person is given a free will apart from any divine intervention. If by " messing" with it you mean he pushes us into making right decisions then my answer would be yes.

Side: Yes
2 points

No, because you still have the CHOICE to do something, whether it be right or wrong. We are not slaves, carrying out our Master's will. We are instead his brothers and sisters doing a favor to spread The Lord around the world. So please don't say we don't have a choice under God, because we do. I could run to the nearest store and rob something if I wanted to. {I'm not...} So could you.{Please don't...} So, in conclusion, we have the choice to do something right or wrong, it's just that God loves us too much to see us fall.

Side: No
2 points

The very reason their is evil in the world is because God allows free will . And be honest , if you wanted God to take to take away humans free will so they only did good , you would only want him to eliminate what you consider evil . By his standards gossip , lust , hate , lying , and drunkenness are all evil . There are many other things but you get my point , if you enjoy these things would you want God to prohibit you from doing so .

Side: No
2 points

Of course God doesn't mess with free will. If He did it wouldn't be free will. In His sovereignty He knows what we will do, but doesn't cause us to do it. It's like recording a football game, then later watching it at a friends house, then you come home and watch it again because it was a good game. Does your foreknowledge of the game affect what will happen? No, the game plays out as it would anyways. If God messed with free will there would be no evil, but also no love

Side: No
1 point

I believe God is Omniscient and Omnipresent

Its actually simple not complicated.

He knows my choices before I make them, but they are free will choices which I would make or have made regardless.

In other words if I make a choice right now, it's my choice of free will. Whether or not God knew 1st or didn't know my choices 1st is irrelevant to my free will.

God pre-knowing my choices before my choices were made, doesn't change the free will that God gave to us. His foreknowledge doesn't cancel out the free will I used to make the choices.

I don't view His Omniscience of choices and of their out comes as "destiny." God did not cause or destined or purpose my choices. He only knew my choices.

As for the outcomes of our choices, God predestined some outcomes and altered some outcomes, but does not alter all or outcomes.

God alters consequence for 1 - His own will, and 2 - at times for us because of His kindness toward us. But even those interjections of God in time where also foreknown by God.

He also holds back some consequences like He holds back the sea. And that's God's Love and Mercy and His Patience.

If destiny is "predestined" then that would mean God made my choices, making my choices also predetermined as destiny. Then it wouldn't be free will.

God HAS predestined prophesies!

He predestined some events and consequences according to His own free will to accomplish His purposes as foretold in prophesies.

Prophesies are in many cased orchestrated and predestined by God. And Prophesy can also simply be a recorded acct of future events.

Because God is Omniscient, He looked through time and decided where His prophesies accomplished His determined outcomes, throughout all the unfolding of events, down to the smallest fraction of a second.

Any alterations of events through times of prophesy fulfillment were also fully known, all things were foreknown.

Like the Crucifixion.

He chose that time to come, it was the right time, so God did it.

He predestined Judas' betrayal. Not because God made Judas' choice for him, but because he knew.... Judas would be offered 30 pieces of silver and he would agree to betray.

So then God predestined that choice as prophesy, to occur in the day and hour according to His prophesy.

Most prophesy is God's response to every choice ever made and every consequence that ever unfolded, past, present and future.

And He already had complete foreknowledge of all choices and events ever to be made.

Prophesy is His free will. He predestined prophesies at a designated time. And sometimes prophesies of God are simply just foreknowledge of events known from all the known choices and every action and reaction.

Prophesy is destiny.

Foreknown always! And predestined often!

Our choices, and the consequences and the events that follow are used by God.

God acts on His free will using our known choices and consequences. God's acts on our behalf knowing His action beforehand doesn't change God or His intervention.

Whether happy or sad consequences, He uses them all, to fulfill His will in our lives and His prophesies, and for His willed purposes throughout time.

His purposes could be as simple as feeding birds, confirming our faith, disciplining us to obedience, blessing us, and even in judgement. But Him knowing ahead of time doesn't change anything.

Just like not knowing or knowing a movie doesn't change the movie. The movie already happened in its entirety, but the movie is still acting out every act and scene predestined and pre-known by the producer.

The only difference is it isn't entirely scripted because the actors are acting by ad lib choices creating the framework of every scene.

He doesnt change our choices because free will makes choices our own.

Side: No