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Debate Info

6
10
Yes, it's eternal suffering No, it's a final death
Debate Score:16
Arguments:10
Total Votes:24
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes, it's eternal suffering (4)
 
 No, it's a final death (6)

Debate Creator

clearEn(207) pic



Does Hell Exist?

Does the Bible support an eternal, fiery hell?

 

***ASSUME GOD EXISTS AND THE BIBLE IS ALL TRUE.  PLEASE PROVIDE TEXT SUPPORTS***

Yes, it's eternal suffering

Side Score: 6
VS.

No, it's a final death

Side Score: 10
1 point

The bible clearly states that there is a place of eternal suffering. I can give an example in the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) Verse 23 is clear enough "In hell, where he was in torment,he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazurus by his side". Also if one would continue to read at the very end it gives the statement that people will not be convinced of hell even if someone were to raise from the dead. (Luke 16:30-31) No, father Abraham, he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent. He said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

Side: Yes, it's eternal suffering
1 point

Hell exists in our own mind and lives. We make our own Hell by our negative thoughts and deeds. Hitler was in Hell long before he ended his life. I do not believe it is a physical place with Satan ruling over it.

Side: Yes, it's eternal suffering
clearEn(207) Disputed
1 point

"Hell exists in our own mind and lives"

Although I understand the spirit of your statement, please humor me. For the sake of argument, can you provide biblical supports (to go along with the introduction to this topic)?

"I do not believe it is a physical place with Satan ruling over it."

I find it interesting that you should point out that last part, "With Satan ruling over it". I think it's almost funny how that idea has become so mainstream, yet the Bible clearly states that Satan will suffer its effects more than anyone else, if that's at all possible. In fact, the Bible implies that Hell was/will be created for Satan.

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Mat. 20:28b "Only God ... can destroy both soul and body in hell." (NLT)

Luk 12:5b "God ... has the power to ... throw you into hell." (NLT)

Rev 19:20c "...the beast ... [was] thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur" (NLT)

Side: No, it's a final death
3 points

Hell was translated from the word Gehenna. Gehenna in itself refers to a real place "Valley of Hinnom" in Jerusalem. This site was the a place of disposing of corpses (human and animal) by fire (Hence the term: Burning in Hell.) All in all, this supposed place of eternal suffering and torment doesn't exist.

Side: No, it's a final death
2 points

Yes it does and it's called sodahead.com! It's to be avoided at all costs! LOL

But seriously No, the fire and pitchfork and all that crap??? Nope! No such thing!

Side: Yes, it's eternal suffering
clearEn(207) Disputed
1 point

No, the fire and pitchfork and all that crap??? Nope! No such thing!

Playing the proverbial devil's advocate, please explain your reasoning to me.

Side: Yes, it's eternal suffering

I don't believe in Hell. Hell only belongs in horror movies. The world would be a much better place if people stopped talking about Hell.

Side: No, it's a final death
0 points

Revelation informs the reader that 'hell' is the Second Death:

Revelation 2:11b "Whoever is victorious will not be hurt by the second death."

Revelation 20:6a "Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power"

Revelation 20:14 "And death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire."

Revelation 21:8 "But cowards who turn away from me, and unbelievers, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those who practice witchcraft, and idol worshipers, and all liars--their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."

As for death, itself, the Bible also states that there is no life in death, no spirit surviving on. You're dead, in the ground:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 "The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing"

John 11:11 "Then he said, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep[1], but now I will go and wake him up."

[1] The Greek word used here (koimaƍ) is also used in Matthew 27 to describe dead people. It also describes death in Acts 7 (Stephen's death), Acts 13 (King David is now sleeping), and others.

So the first death is sleeping, but everyone will get awoken at some point in time. The Second Death would then be 'sleep' without waking. Dead. Gone.

Thus, Hell is not an eternal fire-pit, but an eternal death

Side: No, it's a final death
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
2 points

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it of: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire.

Jesus talking Jesus is God Jesus is the final authority. Also the second death simply means being seperated from God forever with no hope of redeeming yourself seperated from God in the fiery pit of hell.

There are various scriptures where Jesus describes hell as a place of fire. Also 2 Peter:4 Says that God cast the angels into hell. Clearly a physical place seeing as the angels had yet to die their first death. A second death seems out of the question as a substitute for hell entirely. Rather the second death is going to hell. Which although you say this in your passage supports you contradict with your position.

Side: Yes, it's eternal suffering
clearEn(207) Disputed
1 point

Sorry that it took so long for me to respond to you. I hope you can forgive extreme tardiness.

"There are various scriptures where Jesus describes hell as a place of fire."

Yes, there are. I've looked up the other times 'geenna' occur, and, besides Jesus' 'cut off your eye' speech, Jesus says this: "Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28b, NLT) If Hell, or 'geenna' were a place of eternal fire, than God wouldn't destroy sould and body, merely place them there.

Further studying mentions that 'Geenna' originated/refers to the vally of Hinnom, where trash (and dead animals) were taken and burned. Such fires were not permament, only the results.

"the angels had yet to die their first death"

That is true, but the Second Death is the term used for us humans, who tend to die fairly easily. Although, technically, the term is 'Second Resurrection', but, once resurrected from death, the damned will die again, thus, Second Death.

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Also, you might bring up the term 'unquenchable fire' that crops up many times. To make a pun of the previous sentence, the term shows up in Jesus' parable of the farmer separating the wheat and the chaff.

"He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire." (Matthew 3:12, NLT)

The word used for 'burning' is Greek 'katakaio', which means 'to consume with fire'. The chaff is totally burned up, gone. However, had the fire been quenchable, one could conceivably put out the fire before the chaff was done burning. But this fire cannot be stopped--all of the chaff will be consumed.

This conveys the image that, once again, the effects are eternal. The evil will be totally consumed by the fire, but will not burn forever.

Side: No, it's a final death