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Does it make sense if an athiets celebrates Christmas?
The Christmas holiday was made from Christian Culture and is a Christian holiday. That being said, does it make any sense for an athiets to celebrate a religious, Christian holiday?
As we all know, atheists do not only believe that Christianity is wrong but all religion is wrong and that there is no type of God or higher being. I see atheist youtubers most of the time bash on primarily the Christian community and not other religions. Since Christmas is a religious holiday, a Christian holiday, it doesn't make sense for them to not only take part in it but also support it. The true meaning of Christmas and the Christmas story is about the birth of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. Christmas is celebrating Jesus' birth day. So since atheists don't believe in Jesus, why would he celebrate his birthday? To put insult over injury (for the atheist community), every house that Iv been to during Christmas and every family know that celebrates Christmas, Christians and atheists alike, I see either a Star or an Angel on top of the tree. The Star represents the North Star that lead the 3 wiseman along with everyone else to see Jesus and the Angel represents the Angel Gabriel that came to Mary the Mother of God to tell her that she is will child. So why would atheists do this? For the life of me, I have no idea. I can't tell you why because it doesn't make any sense but what I can't tell you is that it doesn't make any sense.
I can't tell you why because it doesn't make any sense but what I can't tell you is that it doesn't make any sense.
Atheists are willing to participate in holidays that bring people together because they are able to independently determine what information is good and what is bad. Unlike religious people who need others to interpret what they believe, Atheists can participate in events that don't support atheism because it doesn't matter what you participate in.
First of all thank you for that comment. I guessing you are an atheist and this website is some what a battle between atheists and Christians but I think it's an exchange of ideas and that's why I like your comment. This is a question that can some what confuse Christians and atheists alike. At first it did confuse me. I like what you said in in the first sentence of your response where by atheists being able to see right and wrong, morality ahah, they can see that Christmas is a time of bringing people together and that's very good. Here is where we differ. The part that doesn't make any sense is the reason why we come together during the Christmas season is to celebrate the birth of Jesus. Not just because it's for family to come together. I mean that could be any time of the year. It also doesn't make sense because of your last statement where you say atheists can go to an event that doesn't support atheism because it doesn't matter. Let's put that in another example by saying that there's a pro choice person partaking in the pro life March. It doesn't make sense because that's what there against is pro life. Another example would be for like a black person to go to a KKK rally. It doesn't make sense. Like I said before the whole reason for Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Our God that I believe in. It makes no sense for an atheist to partake in something they don't believe in no matter if they care or not.
The part that doesn't make any sense is the reason why we come together during the Christmas season is to celebrate the birth of Jesus.
That may be the reason for you, but the tradition of coming together around that time predates Christianity. Humanity has been coming together around the Winter Solstice for a very long time.
Not just because it's for family to come together. I mean that could be any time of the year.
Winter solstice is an optimal time because it is the celebration of the days becoming longer and the hope of spring.
It also doesn't make sense because of your last statement where you say atheists can go to an event that doesn't support atheism because it doesn't matter. Let's put that in another example by saying that there's a pro choice person partaking in the pro life March. It doesn't make sense because that's what there against is pro life.
True, but the analogy is a little flawed. Atheists may not believe in Christianity, but they aren't inherently "against" Christianity. An atheist can, for example, go to church in order to gain a better understanding of Christianity, but that does not necessarily violate their atheism the same way a pro-choice member going to a pro-life rally would.
Like I said before the whole reason for Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Our God that I believe in. It makes no sense for an atheist to partake in something they don't believe in no matter if they care or not.
Again, while that may be the whole reason for you, that is by no means the whole reason for everyone else, hence the disconnect.
The part that doesn't make any sense is the reason why we come together during the Christmas season is to celebrate the birth of Jesus.
No, we don't. We come together to celebrate Santa Claus and because we get that day off from work.
It also doesn't make sense because of your last statement where you say atheists can go to an event that doesn't support atheism because it doesn't matter.
Atheists don't need special events to figure out they don't believe in God. Atheists don't need to avoid counter arguments to Atheism.
Let's put that in another example by saying that there's a pro choice person partaking in the pro life March. It doesn't make sense because that's what there against is pro life.
A pro life march is attempting to push along the pro life agenda. A Christmas dinner is not pushing along the Christian agenda.
Another example would be for like a black person to go to a KKK rally.
That might be to laugh at the stupid white people though.
It doesn't make sense.
Your KKK example is a really terrifying example. Do you really want to admit that Christians have been as bad to Atheists as the KKK has been to blacks?
Like I said before the whole reason for Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Our God that I believe in.
I disagree.
It makes no sense for an atheist to partake in something they don't believe in no matter if they care or not.
There is so much involved with Christmas that has nothing to do with Jesus that Atheists can partake in.
People celebrate religious holidays from traditions they do not believe in for multiple reasons, and the practice is not restricted to atheists.
For atheists living in predominantly Christian the odds of having Christian friends and family who celebrate the holiday are quite high, and therefore so are the chances of being invited to celebrate the holiday with those people. Agreeing to partake in the holiday is a way of sharing in something that is important to someone who is important to you, and does not have to be about your own beliefs in any way. Some atheists may not be out to their friends and family either, meaning that they have to celebrate the holiday or out themselves which can be painful if not dangerous. Christmas is also just as cultural as it is religious for a lot of people, so participating in it can be merely a matter of connecting to their family's heritage or relating to mainstream Christian society; again, belief is not necessary nor is non-belief a contradiction.
Mocking someone without a reasonable argument in the debate. - 1
Considering people are human and make mistakes I can reasonably see this person typing a little fast and hitting the key strokes in the wrong order. I've spelt you as "yuo" before. You being such a Christian would lead me to believe you actually believed in forgiveness and would let something this small go; I guess you really are the hypocrite I made you out to be.
Catholics are pagans. Christmas gained popularity through culture. There's a wonderful story behind how it spread until it was accepted as a tradition and the birth of Christ becoming the main point, so that generally everybody accepted it as a traditional holiday. I forget the details, but there was a half hour radio program dedicated to the history, with many events and accounts building on each other until the holiday was embraced by pretty much everybody in every faith including atheists.
Of course an apetheist cannot celebrate Christmas since they believe there is no Christ, no Messiah. But they can still enjoy the holiday tradition...they just can't call it a holiday because that's a holy day. They can enjoy the family tradition, and many do it with Christians and what's wrong with that? They are just lost and dying and on their way to Hell, but why not let them enjoy Christmas? Poor atheists can't enjoy life for long, let them celebrate Christmas if they can be happy for a few minutes.
No, that's not what you said. Your argument had nothing to do with validity. I do agree that my statement isn't true just because I say it. It is true because it happened.
OK, then it makes sense that you're supporting me now.
Doesn't matter if I say it or not, because it's what logically follows from my point.
You supported me first. ;)
All of my arguments directed at you within this debate are disputes until you supported me, which can clearly be observed by scrolling down from your initial post and clicking the "show replies" link.
It doesn't. Just because you say it does doesn't make it true. :)
I agree with this. I beleive it makes sense to provide evidence and or an argument which substantiates the claim. My argument does deal with validity, because someone could be looking directly at the truth and say that what's in front of them isn't the truth. By definition, something can't be both a truth and a non truth, so it doesn't follow that by simply making a statement means that the statement true.
You may not have hit the support button, but you supported me.
What about my arguments suggests that I supported you?
Because you haven't shown anything is not truth. All you have claimed is that me saying it isn't what makes it true. Technically, you haven't even actually challenged my statement.
It isnt necessary to show you that your argument doesnt express a truth to prove that it isn't valid.
Technically I'm challenging the validity of it. Your initial argument's current state is one of invalidity, because of the complete lack of evidence for the claim.
It isnt necessary to show you that your argument doesnt express a truth to prove that it isn't valid.
It is neccessary to actually claim that it might not be true.
Technically I'm challenging the validity of it.
Not really.
Your initial argument's current state is one of invalidity
This is the first confirmed sighting of you making that claim. You are wrong, but I don't feel like proving it to you.
because of the complete lack of evidence for the claim.
False. Something is true regardless of the evidence presented for it. I have not provided enough evidence that I am right, but you can't use that to prove that I am wrong.
The reasoning being invalid does not invalidate the statement. Your second statement does not logically follow from the first statement. All you have done is shown that I haven't presented evidence.
So, you agree that reasoning being invalid does not invalidate a statement, yet you invalidate my statement because of bad reasoning. So, which part do you not actually agree with?
But it was after I said that you misinterpreted me and I pointed out what I really meant, but you still continued to respond to me with the same interpretation in mind.
The holiday seems to be more about giving, and receiving, gifts and being happy. I don't see why it wouldn't make sense for anyone to not celebrate it. It barely seems religious anymore.
Just because it "seems" barley religious still makes it religious. And that's not a true statement. Christmas is an extremely religious holiday because it's not only about giving and receiving but it's also about the celebration of the birth of Jesus. Look this up on google:
Christmas is the Christian festival celebrating Christs birth in the church
The very fact that Christmas has been secularized and commercialized is evidence of its waning religious affiliation. The fact that atheists do indeed celebrate Christmas is more evidence that it is not an entirely religious holiday anymore, despite the etymology of the name.
I'm well aware of that. I never said it wasn't. We celebrate the birth of Jesus on Christmas. This debate is talking about Atheists. You do have to admit that Santa Claus gets more notoriety on Christmas that Jesus does.
Christmas Day is a national holiday. Maybe the "birth of Christ" aspect of it is only for Christians, but it's turned into a Hallmark holiday that is just a way for companies to make money.
While your facts are probably accurate enough, they are terribly sketchy of the history of how Christmas became accepted among Christians even though it's pagan roots never have been a secret.
You act like you are exposing big secrets....all you are doing is showing ignorance of history.
I am fully aware of all your facts and the pagan roots of Christmas, yet I thoroughly enjoy the holiday (that's an abbreviation of holy day, a day set apart for the Lord) and the season which is an excellent tool for focusing on the Savior who is the Creator and took on human form to suffer in our place and provide a covering for our sins with His innocent blood. I will not have a Christmas tree or any reference to Santa Clause or any other pagan idol in my house, but still enjoy celebrating the message of the Christmas holiday. "Christ mass" is Catholic terminology and the whole Catholic dogma is pagan to the core, through and through, with false representations of Biblical characters and fraudulent representations of concepts to replace Biblical doctrine.....however, Christmas is the legally established name of the national holiday.
Let the atheists celebrate Christmas as pagans, or even as nothing but atheists enjoying the generosity of the season... and they don't have to acknowledge in this world that Jesus Christ is Lord. They will say in Hell that He is Lord, but they don't have to say it here.
Why is there such a desperate and concerted effort to mar or deny the story of God's declaration through the angel of the Lord saying "Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; e shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, .....................(space added for emphasis)..........
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
This is the message of Christmas and the Catholic/pagan roots can not blot out the message. It is because of the promotion of the message that real Christians outside of Catholic pagan fake Christianity embraced the holiday......and the events which popularized the celebration are quite remarkable and sadly ignored by this kind of cold hearted listing of facts which are designed as a slander against Jesus Christ.
Well, technically it isn't a Christian holiday but yes, it does make sense. Because some people are born used to it and just do it for fun. Like me. I'm an Atheist but Christmas is fun! It's not even about God anymore anyway.
It makes just as much sense as a Christian celebrating Halloween, a non-Irish-heritage person celebrating St Patrick's Day, and a non-Mexican-heritage person celebrating Cinco de Mayo.
And actually what does not make sense, ever, is denying your kids part of a fun nationwide celebration date just because you're uptight and closed minded.
There are two forms of modern day Christmas: "Christ-mass", the Christian religious celebration, and "X-Mass" (to use a joking term), the secular holiday formed around the winter solstice and Yule. Yule and the pagan celebration predate "Christmas", and the Germanic (see: Gaul) traditions regarding feasting and bringing in trees spread throughout much of Europe well before Christianity. These traditions are not inherently Christian, and thus one could take part in them without believing in "Christ-Mass".
I would agree that would be weird if they were putting up pictures of Jesus or singing hymns, but I have yet to see an atheist do anything of the sort.
Of course it makes sense for atheists to celebrate Christmas. They don't have much time for celebrating anything so they might as well celebrate whatever they can while they can. They are on their way to a place where they will never celebrate anything ever again, so they might as well enjoy everything they can enjoy now. Who can blame them?
I disagree, with your assessment. Mainly that you are comparing atheists to Stalin, a well known dictator responsible for the deaths of many. Atheists don't celebrate God/christ for they don't believe in him, but Christmas now days is a commercialized holiday that is more about gift giving and receiving than anything else AND like EVERY THING ELSE YOU CHRISTIANS DO .... you shove it down their throats with 27/7 Christmas specials. Why not get into the spirit of the holiday without being religious about it? HAH! the better question is why not. Who knows you might pick up that cute little red head down at the convince store... you know that one of the clubbed foot and crossed eyes?
You are nasty and dirty and I expect you to disagree with the truth....you think that by being dirty you have the right to exist outside of Hell. Too bad for you if you want to be full of yourself as you are.
Of course it makes sense for atheists to celebrate Christmas. They don't have much time for celebrating anything so they might as well celebrate whatever they can while they can.
it doesn't surprise me when you read stuff like this coming from him:
"I'm glad you caught on to that. I wonder how many people actually saw that? A few have pointed it out. The idea here was for me to have fun making atheists and agnostics look foolish because that is what they are."
The great thing is that he only proved he was foolish. He wonders how many people saw that and he was told by many people that they saw it. It is so ridiculous.
I couldn't think of a way for Stalin to be mentioned, so I was checking if Aspire misread the argument, or if it was carrying on from another argument.
You are a pest, but I don't want you to be lost in Hell forever. I can be a pest too, my sins are forgiven and I'm going to heaven. I honestly enjoy everybody here, even if I have to be harsh telling them the truth.
Really, I would be happier if you would ignore me than to just keep putting nonsense childish replies up. But I don't want you to burn in Hell. God loves you, and He wants nobody to burn in Hell.
So where are you going? If you wake up in Hell, do you think that proves me to be evil? You don't know where you are going and don't care if I am telling you where you are going? Will you demand execution thinking it will prove you to be righteous?
No. You are evil for wanting me to wake up in Hell. I don't think you are God like you think you are, so you wouldn't be responsible for sending me to Hell.
Homosexuals degrade themselves by defiling their body in perverted sexual indulgence or by believing they have no control over their lusts. Rational thinkers who believe they have the right to exist outside of Hell, or believe they have the right to live with no God to deny them of what they believe is their right, are not being rational at all....they are being closed minded and keeping themselves imprisoned on death row....keeping themselves in the degradations of their own sins.....
and I never claimed to be a good person....there is only one good person, He is God and He reveals Himself to us as the Son of God, The Lord God Almighty who conquered death for us so we can be forgiven of our blood guiltiness. That's good...what God did for us is all good. If you look at God as not being good, all you will see is evil against you taking you down in death and it's your own fault if you will not believe God is willing and able to pardon and forgive you.......and the only way you can be pardoned is that He paid your debt Himself when He died for you on the cross and gave His perfect sinless blood to be the covering for your sins so He can consider your debt paid and you can have eternal life with Him in His resurrection.
You have no hope if you reject what God did for you to give you life. Life is eternal, living is forever. Death is eternal, dying is forever. You are dying now, and if you don't get saved
You don't care if you wake up in Hell, so why should I? I care about where you are going more than you.... I know where you are going. If you knew, you would listen....but you are a closed minded fool who thinks he is a smarty pants with his pants on fire as a liar liar liar.
If you want say I desire for you to burn in Hell, go ahead and say it. It's not true, but if it makes you feel better then by all means do whatever you can to feel as good as you can while you can because things are not going to be any better than this world for you if you don't get saved from Hell.
I think it's time to go back to ignoring all your posts again for a while...and see if you are not in Hell the next time I read your confusions.
Homosexuals degrade themselves by defiling their body in perverted sexual indulgence or by believing they have no control over their lusts. Rational thinkers who believe they have the right to exist outside of Hell, or believe they have the right to live with no God to deny them of what they believe is their right, are not being rational at all....they are being closed minded and keeping themselves imprisoned on death row....keeping themselves in the degradations of their own sins.....
and I never claimed to be a good person....there is only one good person, He is God and He reveals Himself to us as the Son of God, The Lord God Almighty who conquered death for us so we can be forgiven of our blood guiltiness. That's good...what God did for us is all good. If you look at God as not being good, all you will see is evil against you taking you down in death and it's your own fault if you will not believe God is willing and able to pardon and forgive you.......and the only way you can be pardoned is that He paid your debt Himself when He died for you on the cross and gave His perfect sinless blood to be the covering for your sins so He can consider your debt paid and you can have eternal life with Him in His resurrection.
You have no hope if you reject what God did for you to give you life. Life is eternal, living is forever. Death is eternal, dying is forever. You are dying now, and if you don't get saved
If you feel like I'm not reading your stuff now, you are correct.
Y'all do realize that as sinners, we all deserve to die now, right? Every moment of time outside of Hell is a gift from God we do not deserve and cannot earn. Ya'll see the plain simple truth of reality, right?
Cartman cartman cartman. If I didn't love you, I would say nothing and let you go to Hell without bothering to try to get you to see how you can know the Savior and be saved from Hell. I doubt that you will be saved, by the way you talk and act I think you are going to find yourself in Hell unable to get out of the fire and that's sad, even for a pest like you.
occasionally I see something from you that slips past my eyes...usually I skip over your stuff without reading it.
I do enjoy everybody here, even the obnoxious dirty minded perverts because I enjoy telling them the truth about their sin. After I get some of them to shut up enough, I like thinking they will still read my stuff sometimes and maybe God can use me to get some light of the gospel of Jesus Christ through their sadly darkened minds, like that dark space between your ears in which you have so many squirrels funning around making you talk silly.
Whatever, cartman. I'm not reading this stuff. I've tried enough with you. I'm sorry there's not enough time to entertain you. I have to leave you behind. I'm going to heaven and I have work to do before I get there. See ya.
Let me put it this way since you seem to be on the dense side.........hahaha, pervert.....hahaha
Y'all do realize that as sinners, we all deserve to die now, right? Every moment of time outside of Hell is a gift from God we do not deserve and cannot earn. Ya'll see the plain simple truth of reality, right?
The really old posts are history which remains and cannot be changed. Even if they are removed, they are still part of your history. If you said it, you are accountable, responsible for it and will be Judged accordingly....and if you are not pardoned, it all adds up to being in the Lake of Fire forever where the smoke of their torments will rise forever, and you can only prove yourself wrong and you are doing a good job of it.
Homosexuals degrade themselves by defiling their body in perverted sexual indulgence or by believing they have no control over their lusts. Rational thinkers who believe they have the right to exist outside of Hell, or believe they have the right to live with no God to deny them of what they believe is their right, are not being rational at all....they are being closed minded and keeping themselves imprisoned on death row....keeping themselves in the degradations of their own sins.....
and I never claimed to be a good person....there is only one good person, He is God and He reveals Himself to us as the Son of God, The Lord God Almighty who conquered death for us so we can be forgiven of our blood guiltiness. That's good...what God did for us is all good. If you look at God as not being good, all you will see is evil against you taking you down in death and it's your own fault if you will not believe God is willing and able to pardon and forgive you.......and the only way you can be pardoned is that He paid your debt Himself when He died for you on the cross and gave His perfect sinless blood to be the covering for your sins so He can consider your debt paid and you can have eternal life with Him in His resurrection.
You have no hope if you reject what God did for you to give you life. Life is eternal, living is forever. Death is eternal, dying is forever. You are dying now, and if you don't get saved
Homosexuals degrade themselves by defiling their body in perverted sexual indulgence or by believing they have no control over their lusts. Rational thinkers who believe they have the right to exist outside of Hell, or believe they have the right to live with no God to deny them of what they believe is their right, are not being rational at all....they are being closed minded and keeping themselves imprisoned on death row....keeping themselves in the degradations of their own sins.....
and I never claimed to be a good person....there is only one good person, He is God and He reveals Himself to us as the Son of God, The Lord God Almighty who conquered death for us so we can be forgiven of our blood guiltiness. That's good...what God did for us is all good. If you look at God as not being good, all you will see is evil against you taking you down in death and it's your own fault if you will not believe God is willing and able to pardon and forgive you.......and the only way you can be pardoned is that He paid your debt Himself when He died for you on the cross and gave His perfect sinless blood to be the covering for your sins so He can consider your debt paid and you can have eternal life with Him in His resurrection.
You have no hope if you reject what God did for you to give you life. Life is eternal, living is forever. Death is eternal, dying is forever. You are dying now, and if you don't get saved
Why don't you go get drunk with some prostitutes, and maybe take the women of your family to join the fun? Pervert. And if you get AIDS (assuming you don't already have it) you can blame God for allowing you to be stupid you pervert.