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Does science provide a purpose for life?
I can not get anyone who is not a belever of christ to answer this question. Which is why are we here and why does evil and good exist, what is the purpose?
Yes
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No
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Why we are here: because about a billion years ago, a fantastic chemical reaction occured which created amino acids. 65 million years ago, the dinosaurs died, so mammals evolved to take the planet. We are here because evolution got us here. Good and Evil: no such thing, just a fabrication of the mind to justify and condemn acts. Purpose: Our purpose? Simple. Mate, procreate and do whatever else it takes to pass on or genetic information as long as possible. Brought to you by an athiest Side: yes
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And they say religion is magical. What magical potion created the world? None. Gravity condenses matter formed from stellar fusion into planets. The heavier elements are closer to the largest source of gravity. This is why the Earth has so much of the heavy elements but far away we get gas giants. Of course none of this is magic, it simply doesn't stroke your ego like you want it to. Side: No
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YES, you may not like the answer I have though. In biology we are taught that the goal of most creatures is to mate and have children. Although it depends on your definition on purpose, if it is something like "why was it created" then you will find no purpose there, just the how from the scientific definition. Unless you are Catholic (I am ignoring non-abrahamic religions, I don't know anyone on this site who isn't religious or abrahmic). If your definition is something like "what are we supposed to do with our lives", then through biology you get the basic thing of doing whatever you want too, provided you make children. If your definition is "what is the meaning of life", then science to my understanding has no answer. So it is best if you ask your nearest philosopher. If you are asking "do people who go into scientific fields have more meaning in their lives", then I will say that as long as you are doing something enjoyable with your life then you have more meaning than most. Side: yes
I'll have to disagree with you. God did not endow us with anything but ignorance and scorn, such is the case in the judeo-Christian fable of the garden of Eden. Science has created medicine. Look into it, you'll be surprised how much you learn about chemistry and biology. Side: No
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Agnostic here. Leaning atheist. No. Any purpose, value, morality, or goal is human made. Science is descriptive, it can tell us how the world works, but it can't tell us what our goals should be or what we should try to achieve. Even biology only tells us what our biological instinct is (procreate), it doesn't tell us that procreation is what we ought to do, we could just as easily choose to live contrary to our biological impulses. So, why are we here? Science can answer that in a descriptive way, using evolution. Why is there good and evil? Science can't answer that, I would say that these things do not exist. What is the purpose? There is none, therefore science can't describe it. Side: No
Science as a discipline doesn't concern itself with concepts like morality and purpose. The closest you'll get is the study of evolution in shaping morality, and how our brains determine morality, but the distinction is that science won't recommend a morality, just figure out how it works. It's the same with purpose, science looks at how something functions, and doesn't care about purpose. Side: No
Ug kinda tired if the same old everything just suddenly happened and we have no idea why anything exists seems well really lame. You cant have a creation without a greater power behind all of it. I mean you have to put alot of trust in the idea of absenence. Ug, not gunna work. Side: No
Ug kinda tired if the same old everything just suddenly happened and we have no idea why anything exists seems well really lame. You cant have a creation without a greater power behind all of it. I mean you have to put alot of trust in the idea of absenence. Ug, not gunna work. This isn't a creation, however. Our universe and world isn't a creation. There's your faulty premise. Also, you keep asking the wrong questions. You should ask "how did our world come to be" or "how did we evolve?" Side: No
If our world isnt a creation than what would you call it? ANd mabye your right about asking the wrong questions. LOL But doesnt the evolution topic fit under science, or how it came to be? I may have made it a very generalized question on purpose to open up to alot of ideas. Side: yes
The world is a formation, creation is a word that implies creator, using that word can lead a careless reader to assume that the earth was manufactured. Formation is a better word because it describes that the world came to be from simpler stuff. Nebular hypothesis deals with the formation of solar systems; exploded supernovas form clouds of heavy elements and these condense around each other in space due to gravity. The more massive something is, the more gravity it has, and it will pull heavy elements towards it more than light ones, explaining why Jupiter is further from us than Mars. It's all very simple stuff. Life forms from simple chemicals which react under energy to form nucletides and amino acids. Self replicating molecules exist in nature, and these would grow more complex as they compete with each other to replicate more with little resources. Eventually you get life, and live diversifies by evolution. Skip ahead 3 billion years and you have us. That's why it's meaningless to ask if life has purpose; we came about with no intelligence or plan guiding us, we are purposeless. Meaning is what you crave, meaning comes from the consequences of our actions, how those actions affect our environment and others. We can as intelligent beings give purpose to things, for example by making computers, computers have purpose. You should ask how life forms in nature, how it evolves, how planets form, etc. These are good questions and we have the answers, or at least most of them. Side: No
And what happens to you when you die? Everything made here, the universe our planet, and the animals that exist here all have a purpose. I think we do to. We arent here just to live and die. All animals fit under a web designed to keep life circulating here on our planet. So every living thing on this planet has a purpose except us? We arent here to surivive and just take up all the resources. We are here to appreciate what life has given us through god through his creation and through the hard work nature puts out for us. Thats our purpose to love him for everything he made just for us. Specifically designed for us. Side: yes
You are using intuition above evidence and this is what's misleading you. What you said to me was extremely intuitive but when we are dealing with nature, intuition often leads us astray. For example, you have a hunch that just living, eating, reproducing and dying is too simple a life for what we have. Nature tends to gravitate towards simple explanations though and there is nothing within us that would suggest that we can live after our body dies. When our body dies, so does our brain, and it contains our memories, our personality, our identity. I think you're also confusing purpose with meaning. Purpose implies a design and goal behind something, like how a car's purpose is transport. It's extremely intuitive but wrong to apply this to most living things. At best domesticated animals and plants have a purpose ordained by us. However in nature, there really isn't a master plan, at best you can claim that our purpose is survival and reproduction, but that's not reflective of universal intent, rather it is the case because our existence requires it and those animals that can do it best survive. Nature being made for us is perhaps the ultimate intuitive leap because it makes so much sense to us, but when you study life, biology, you see a much larger picture than that. Indeed when you see the big picture it appears that life's only goal is to survive through genetic reproduction and cloning. Our bodies don't even matter, they seem to be merely what's most effective at distributing genes. We see this best in viruses, for example, because a virus isn't even alive, it's just a parasitic genetic strand that only seeks to replicate. The big picture suggests that life is fiercely competetive towards this end, and us being the center merely reflects our intelligence and success, not our design. I would suggest that you look to your friends, family, those you love for purpose and meaning. Seeking it objectively from a grand authority will never be as satisfying. Side: No
But we never designed a purpose or a meaning in the first place. I mean you didnt choose to be born and when we were children we had no main purpose or meaning we just followed our parents and relied on them to guide us through life. This is the same now, except now that we are more intellectuall we can see that we need parents we need someone to guide us through life since we were born with it. This parent is God. We need be guideded. From the very beggining to the very end. Side: yes
But we never designed a purpose or a meaning in the first place. I don't understand this statement. I mean you didnt choose to be born and when we were children we had no main purpose or meaning we just followed our parents and relied on them to guide us through life. Society gives your parents a purpose, which transfers onto you. Specifically, the purpose of your parents is to be productive and raise a member of society that functions well within it. This is the same now, except now that we are more intellectuall we can see that we need parents we need someone to guide us through life since we were born with it. When you grow up you no longer have parents to guide you, and so you make your own purpose. All you're asking for is an authority to direct you and Christianity accomplishes this by making a priest or pastor your authority, in addition it gets away with this blatant control by pretending that the priest is speaking on behalf of god when it's just the person's intuition and feelings he is speaking from. This is the trap of organised religion, people who need a leader being directed by men who answer to no one but themselves, but pretend to be enlightened by a god or mystical force. The followers like you are then made dependent because you give up your critical thinking skills and believe in propaganda designed to make you distrustful of outsiders who may undermine the authority of your religion. This parent is God. We need be guideded. From the very beggining to the very end. I make my own path, you can too but it means accepting additional responsibility, and being aware of the consequences of your actions. If you wish to live your life asleep, then by all means listen to an authority who is basically just like you but a leader, and let that man tell you how to live your life, and never think too hard. Side: No
There is only one who has complete authority over all peoples. I just want to say that I read every word you said and understand your point of view. I can see where your coming from. Now your last sentence was insulting how ever, because Christianity is all about opening your mind and expanding your mind, spirit, and strength. Which brings you closer in relationship with Jesus. My question to you is if life just exists to exist then how do we have the ability to even argue about it. What gives us the ability to reason? Just want to know what you think about reason. Also People aren't the answer to happiness. Nothing in this world can provide you with happiness. If you believe it can I must tell you that it is fake, it will just fade away. The word of god will heal your transgressions, for the word is God. The word led me to what I am today. I'm a loving spirit. Pastors don't make me who I am god does. Side: yes
There is only one who has complete authority over all peoples. Authority is merely the product of passing your responsibility onto another for fear of the consequences of your deeds and a desire to have someone other than yourself to blame when or if something goes wrong. Now your last sentence was insulting how ever, because Christianity is all about opening your mind and expanding your mind, spirit, and strength. It's intended to be critical. You don't want to take responsibility for your own life, you want someone to depend on, so you follow dogma instead of being open-minded and a free thinker. Which brings you closer in relationship with Jesus. This is an example of dogma that you are compelled to accept. My question to you is if life just exists to exist then how do we have the ability to even argue about it. What gives us the ability to reason? Our brains, our culture, our language, which all evolved from simpler forms. If you want the simplest answer, it's emergence, a complex function coming about by a lot of simple machinery and laws working together. Our universe is very parsimonious, and it follows that you should expect simple answers for the big questions instead of the complicated, incomprehensible mess that is theology. Just want to know what you think about reason. Also People aren't the answer to happiness. Nothing in this world can provide you with happiness. People are all we have in this lonesome blue ball. If they can't make you happy, you are going to have a void in your life that needs filling which in your case means a delusion. The word of god will heal your transgressions, for the word is God. The word led me to what I am today. I'm a loving spirit. Pastors don't make me who I am god does. This is the depth of your delusion. You aren't able to accept the loneliness of space and the finite nature of existence, so you bought into an old religion and created a fictitious world to soothe your mind. Side: No
I love people more then i did before i met jesus. Because love flows through me and cleanses me when im dirty and forgives me when i fall. I repent and ask for forgivness and am healed. When you learn about him it seems complicated to others yet so profound and true to those who open their ears to hear it. This is the complete opposite of blaming others. This is about feeling guilty for your sin ful garbage and turning it all over to him. What bonds your frienships and loved ones together? TRUST. We must trust in him. We must beleive. This is not a weakness. This is not a closed minded attempt to boggle up what you think to be the right picture. Faith is strength. God is being who he is because he is. He has displayed majasty through his creation. He is being him. His word is written all over nature all over his creation. And nature is excited for the day when the chains are broken and harmony overflows. God gave us bodys to be used for whatever you choose to use them for. Basically our bodys are shells and our spirit lives in it tilll we die.The we will be lifted up to him forever. THAT IS WHY OUR RELATIONSHIP IS SO BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE HE HAS SHOWED US THE LIGHT WE WILL LIVE IN TILL NOW AND FOR ETERNITY. Side: yes
I love people more then i did before i met jesus. Because love flows through me and cleanses me when im dirty and forgives me when i fall. I repent and ask for forgivness and am healed. When you learn about him it seems complicated to others yet so profound and true to those who open their ears to hear it. This is a normal human experience that your delusion claims as its own in order to invest you into it. This is the complete opposite of blaming others. When you blame god, you don't even realise it. Blaming is god is done when you say things like "it's his will" or "god works in mysterious ways." This is about feeling guilty for your sin ful garbage and turning it all over to him. What you are actually doing is simply letting go of emotional issues. A normal human ability, but your delusion requires you to associate it with forgiveness and confession to a magical deity. However, the long list of behaviours that your dogma requires you to believe are sinful makes you always feel the need to empty yourself for deeds that are not crimes. What bonds your frienships and loved ones together? TRUST. Trust is a reciprocated act. When it isn't, it's authoritarianism, and putting yourself at the mercy of an unknown. We must trust in him. We must beleive. This is not a weakness. This is not a closed minded attempt to boggle up what you think to be the right picture. Faith is strength. This is all reinforcement dogma. "You must believe." "Faith is strength." These ideas keep you from having the common uncertainty that accompanies wisdom and allows you to grow as an individual. God is being who he is because he is. He has displayed majasty through his creation. He is being him. His word is written all over nature all over his creation. And nature is excited for the day when the chains are broken and harmony overflows. More dogma that expects you to bite into it whole and accept it without question. Personal growth doesn't come from accepting platitudes, it comes from questioning your foundations and learning for yourself how the world works, how life works. You just gorged yourself upon dogma in place of this process and it has made you a fool instead of a wise man. God gave us bodys to be used for whatever you choose to use them for. Basically our bodys are shells and our spirit lives in it tilll we die.The we will be lifted up to him forever. More platitudes. THAT IS WHY OUR RELATIONSHIP IS SO BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE HE HAS SHOWED US THE LIGHT WE WILL LIVE IN TILL NOW AND FOR ETERNITY. Nothing is forever. That is one of the first things we learn. Life isn't forever. You will die, as must we all. You need to accept it instead of running away from it in denial. Side: No
You are very good at debating ill give you that. May i suggest to you to read C.S. Lewis. He is a very good especially for people who find their intellect getting in the way. I strongely suggest you read it. He is very respectful to non beleivers just as i respect you, and points out all of the conflictions we have and more. ITS CALLED MERE CHRISTIANITY. And if you like him he also has some other very facinating and intellectual books. And remember there are hypocrites who claim to be christian yet judge and attack and promote hate instead of love. And there are those who listen, who are respectful and loving. Everything you have said to me apply's to your reason. This I beleive is not to your benefit. We alone can not provide and answer for life, for we came into this world with nothing and will leave this earth with nothing. Jesus is the key to eternal life. Eternal life does not go with our reason, I understand that. I understand where you are coming from. This world.But Jesus came to this world not being of this world, for this world is death and destruction. I am no longer from this world for he lives in me. That is what seperates us. I am but im not. The worlds definition of love is deferent from the Godly defenition of love. How do I know what love is? I met love, a love stronger then anything i know. A piece that rests on my shoulders. Side: yes
You are very good at debating ill give you that. Did you read a message I wrote on your profile? May i suggest to you to read C.S. Lewis. He is a very good especially for people who find their intellect getting in the way. The trouble is, when your intellect is getting in the way of believing something, it means in all probability that you would be wrong to believe it. I've become very good at reading arguments and it's come to the point that great philosophers and theologians are exceedingly unlikely to sneak a poorly-reasoned idea past me. That's why I've stopped reading them with seriousness when they promise to justify god. I've seen their mistakes so many times that it's become an exercise in spotting their failed logic. Everything you have said to me apply's to your reason. This I beleive is not to your benefit. Using reason is what brings us knowledge. We alone can not provide and answer for life, for we came into this world with nothing and will leave this earth with nothing. Jesus is the key to eternal life. Eternal life does not go with our reason, I understand that. We seem to have done a very good job of creating reasons to live, which can be benevolent or selfish. We have even found answers to how we got here. Religion has lost its purpose. Eternal life is an impossibility. If you can reason this out for yourself, then you already know that it cannot be possible and any attempts to suggest otherwise in followup using emotions and intuition are just your hopes trying to invest you into the idea against your better judgment. But Jesus came to this world not being of this world, for this world is death and destruction. I am no longer from this world for he lives in me. That is what seperates us. You know that this is merely a statement of faith with no substance to it. You already know that we cannot live forever, and it being the case your attempts to distract your mind from this simple truth with dogma are really just part of comforting your mind from accepting the truth of your mortality. You are 18 years old. That means, if technology stays the same in the future, you could live another 80 years if you're really lucky. However that's all you'll get in the best of circumstances. It could be that on your twentieth birthday you die while driving home in a car accident. Then you're gone. Forever. That is your mortality. Savour life, enjoy these years that you have, because right now you're at the best part of your life and it will end. Those pangs you get in the back of your mind where you wonder if you believe in Jesus enough to earn eternal life, if you are worthy; they are all parts of a delusion that distracts you from your mortality. It comforts you, against a harsh reality. The worlds definition of love is deferent from the Godly defenition of love. How do I know what love is? I met love, a love stronger then anything i know. A piece that rests on my shoulders. There are all kinds of love that stem from the same emotion. You are 18 years old. You haven't learned yet about all the kinds of love, so while religious you assume that these new experiences are unique to your religion. They are not. We all feel these types of love irregardless of religion. Side: No
First of all how do you make someone your friend? Still kinda new on this website. Second, what do you think about all of the recordings of all of Jesus's miracles and teachings. Who do you think he is? What do you think about the coming of Jesus being fortold wa before his arrival. How about our four fathers who made the constitution and bill of rights with a beleif in God foundation. How bout all of the principles and moral ethics that establishedlaw and order. Most importantly I want you to tell me what you think about Jesus. Side: yes
First of all how do you make someone your friend? Still kinda new on this website. You visit their profile and select "Identify Ally" under their profile. Second, what do you think about all of the recordings of all of Jesus's miracles and teachings. Miracles are by definition impossible. His teachings are not very different from a number of philosophers of his era. Eastern religion had similar concepts. Who do you think he is? If he existed, he is either the world's greatest charlatan or world's most misunderstood philosopher, depending on whether he intended his messages to cause personal gain. If he did not exist, he is one of the world's most influential fictional characters, if not the most, and the church which invented him is laughing in their afterlife at how foolish man is to believe so much in a fiction (well, if there were an afterlife, anyway). What do you think about the coming of Jesus being fortold wa before his arrival. It has no significance. Many works of fiction have chapters which prophesize what is to come in the next chapters. The bible was written by men, as a work of fiction. If a real Jesus existed, he merely used the bible to give himself authority, like cult leaders do now. Then the New Testament cemented his place in a canon, decades after his death, by writers of fiction. If he never existed, the Jesus character would merely be a tool to lend impression of a false miracle that is the authority behind the New Testament. Do you not think men and women made forgeries two thousand years ago? Charlatans existed back then. When you use the bible to support itself (like asking how the bible could prophesize Jesus, or if you are asking yourself why all his followers would suffer crucifixion for a lie) you are merely thinking within a fiction, you have to think outside the box: outside of the bible, miracles do not happen. People do not rise from the dead. Charlatans have written holy texts to elevate themselves, therefore the bible must be the same and there were probably no men who were crucified in the name of their prophet, perhaps Jesus was entirely a fiction, etc. How about our four fathers who made the constitution and bill of rights with a beleif in God foundation. A number of the founding fathers were Christians. A number were deists. A number were "freethinkers" which is kind of like the old, 18th century term for "atheist" or "agnostic." In those days the thought of parading around your belief in god for votes was considered obscene because the matter of god was a private, personal affair not to be taken so lightly. Our founding fathers observed interfaith conflicts in Europe, Protestants killing Catholics, and Catholics massacring Protestants. These conflicts stemmed from Europe having state religions, so that churches had armies with which to fight those they disagreed with, and they had an absolute authority by law. Therefore, our nation was founded on the principles of separation of church and state. This is why our constitution explains that a government office may not endorse or prohibit religious belief or churches. Such a barrier prevented the United States from having a state religion imposing itself against the Amish, Quakers, Lutherans, Protestants, Catholics, Nonbelievers, etc. Now jump forward two centuries. Despite our secular roots, religious opportunists took advantage of ignorance and the feelings of the time to have imposed on our state "god" in our national pledge (it was never there before), god on our money (look at dollars from the fourties, no mention of god on our paper money, and in the 19th century there was no mention of god on our coinage), and they created the national motto "in god we trust." So no, belief in god was not the foundation of our country. That idea is a fiction created by politically motivated Christians (Dominionists and Christian Reconstructionists) who want a state religion imposed upon everyone as their ultimate aim. Note that there is no such thing as a Christian Nation, because there isn't just "Christian," Christianity is divided into sects like Protestant, Orthodox, Episcopalian, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Catholic, etc. and all have their own differing theologies which consider other sects heretical. A state religion would endorse only one interpretation, and all the others (including those who are irreligious) would be considered second class citizens at best, forced to pay taxes towards a church they do not support, and possibly being unable to discuss their beliefs in public. How bout all of the principles and moral ethics that establishedlaw and order. We invented them. We are moral and ethical beings that discuss and come to agreements upon these dilemmas when writing law. We also borrowed precedents from earlier governments like Roman and Greek systems. It is another fiction told by clergy that without god we would be animals. God isn't necessary for morality. Side: No
I think you take to much credit for yourself. We arent makers. We didnt make the stars, we didnt shape the moon. Everything that exists is completely out of our control. Sure we can make, we can renue, we can build, we can destroy, we can improve, and invent. But we didnt make ourselves. I beleive we are given authority over earth. But we were not given authority to rule us. We owe it to the maker, not to ourselves. I know you will say that their isnt a maker but i disagree. Legos dont come together on their own. There is a creater behind it. When i was a child i didnt sit their and expect a miraculous formation to come about from my legos. I had to work at it, i had to put me into it, my own imagination my own will. We have the ability to make and destroy. We have the ability to stand up again and to fall down. It is hypocritical to say that nothing created something. Or a formation, a scientific collission or however you put it. Because we know that in order for something to happen we must make it happen. This is nonsence. Relying on the unknown is not how we apporate. And for us to claim to have the answer for everything, leads to a proud pit. A never ending black hole. We are not our own Gods. We are much smaller then that. What is the statistic like 90% is dark matter? Something like that. Now that is a crazy statistic. Im going to disagree with you. You can not prove that we are here just to randomly be put here. Because everything that is made has a purpose, a greater purpose. Not just spreading our gene pool. We were given emotions, feelings, on purpose in order to be given the choice to be apart of nothing or to be apart of something. We were made to coose between death or life. If you want to be a sad ending and stick with death then so be it. But I must tell you that there is so much more then what our eyes can see. The devil is at work. He will seek to destroy you with deception. The reality that we live and just die is what you claim to be a harsh and true reality. If it that is the way you want it to be then so be it, but remeber this. There is a god that loves you. Jesus loves you. He knows you better then you know yourself. There are parts of you that arent you. You know it deep down that there is a purpose for life a greater purpose then what our naturalselves tell us. We must kill our natural selves. We must not fall into a deep ocean of deception. Give God a chance. Get to know him and you will see your eyes will be open when you truely take that leap of faith. Side: yes
I think you take to much credit for yourself. We arent makers. We didnt make the stars, we didnt shape the moon. Everything that exists is completely out of our control. Sure we can make, we can renue, we can build, we can destroy, we can improve, and invent. But we didnt make ourselves. Stars, planets, stellar objects are presently beyond our ability to create. It doesn't mean we cannot create things of complexity or value. I beleive we are given authority over earth. But we were not given authority to rule us. We give ourselves authority, and we take authority from each other. It really is as simple as that. We owe it to the maker, not to ourselves. I know you will say that their isnt a maker but i disagree. We were not made. It doesn't even make sense to imply that you need a maker to grant authority. A maker has no special authority over its creation. It is an act of obedience to grant that authority, not an intrinsic right. Legos dont come together on their own. There is a creater behind it. When i was a child i didnt sit their and expect a miraculous formation to come about from my legos. I had to work at it, i had to put me into it, my own imagination my own will. We are not legos. We are not manufactured. We evolved, because we are alive and can reproduce. It is hypocritical to say that nothing created something. Or a formation, a scientific collission or however you put it. Because we know that in order for something to happen we must make it happen. All you're telling me is that the laws of physics are above your knowledge and ability to understand. That's alright, higher physics is abstruse because it is completely counter-intuitive and is entirely abstract. In nature, particles can come from nothing and then disappear into nothing. The notion that our universe came from nothing is based on very high level theoretical physics that supposes if we have a flat topology for our universe, and if the dark matter and energy in our universe is a certain quantity, our universe may very likely be the result of a quantum fluctuation that has not yet equaled itself out. This is a branch of science that isn't guesswork, or pure imagination, it is like every other science: knowledge furthered through theory, observation and experimentation. So, it is not something you can just dismiss because you don't understand it. This is nonsence. Relying on the unknown is not how we apporate. We don't rely on the unknown, we seek to explain it. And for us to claim to have the answer for everything, leads to a proud pit. A never ending black hole. We don't claim to have all the answers. Some answers will forever be out of our reach. For example, is our universe one out of millions of other universes? When the universe ends will it collapse and form again, the same series of events so that we will live again? We are not our own Gods. We are much smaller then that. A man once said, if we don't play god, no one else will. We need to accept our origins and potential and act intelligently with this information, rather than cowering at nature. What is the statistic like 90% is dark matter? Something like that. Now that is a crazy statistic. Im going to disagree with you. 80%, but realise it's not opinion. It's an indirectly observed fact. You can not prove that we are here just to randomly be put here. Realise that you are disputing science that is very complicated and well-researched. It would be better if you studied it, from the horse's mouth, instead of creationist and Christian literature. Because everything that is made has a purpose, a greater purpose. Not just spreading our gene pool. It's very hard to accept, and it is counter-intuitive but you're wrong. We were given emotions, feelings, on purpose in order to be given the choice to be apart of nothing or to be apart of something. We were made to coose between death or life. This is actually true, though in a different way than you realise. Emotions developed with social skills so that we can be part of a group rather than standing alone. Standing alone is choosing death, in nature. If you want to be a sad ending and stick with death then so be it. But I must tell you that there is so much more then what our eyes can see. The devil is at work. He will seek to destroy you with deception. The reality that we live and just die is what you claim to be a harsh and true reality. There is no devil. That's paranoia fostered by your religious beliefs. It keeps you from trusting information which could let you see nature for what it is. If it that is the way you want it to be then so be it, but remeber this. There is a god that loves you. Jesus loves you. He knows you better then you know yourself. There are parts of you that arent you. You know it deep down that there is a purpose for life a greater purpose then what our naturalselves tell us. We must kill our natural selves. We must not fall into a deep ocean of deception. Give God a chance. Get to know him and you will see your eyes will be open when you truely take that leap of faith. Accepting reality is a lot like what you just said here. There is a whole world out there ripe for exploration and appreciation, but you have to drop your superstition to engage it. There are parts to you that your religion has no answer for, and accepting reality would let you see them. For example, have you ever wondered why your tears taste salty? It's a very strange thing, considering that we live on land, and that our waters are not salty. It's because our cells are geared for saline osmotic pressures, internally, and this is a legacy we have inherited from hundreds of millions of years ago when we lived in the oceans. Little things like this tell us that we're not created. But it's something you must learn to accept on your own. You WANT to believe in easy-to-understand oral stories, and I can't make you want to seek out reality. Side: No
Well its been a good talk. Were at the point now where we will simply disagree. I respect science and yes i should learn more about the composition of life nad more. But there are some very good scientists who beleive in creation, who have devoted their life to learning about science and still come with the same conclusion that the beleif in evolution has to many flaws, to many to count. I also beleive, living a christian life opens up your mind spiritually, intellectually, and mentally. It takes all of you to be a devoted follower of christ. In conclusion I must tell you this, when i went to church this morning, I was overwhelmed with the power of the holy spirit, I felt something more, something so much more. His hand was on me that morning, filling me up with such happiness, such piece, such adoration. His word has so much power, so much love, and piece. Emotions cannot comprehend it, something we cannont contain. PLEASE GIVE IT A CHANCE. You tell me to look into science, I will. So please do the same for me. Side: yes
Well its been a good talk. Were at the point now where we will simply disagree. This is your faith kicking in. It prevents you from severely questioning yourself. You're dealing with someone who has been through this before. I respect science and yes i should learn more about the composition of life nad more. But there are some very good scientists who beleive in creation, who have devoted their life to learning about science and still come with the same conclusion that the beleif in evolution has to many flaws, to many to count. Being a scientist does not mean you know the entirety of science. You specialise, while remaining ignorant of other fields. Physicists for example may reject evolution because they never studied it. These are important facts you need to know. Another important fact is that there is a type of scientist known as a "creation scientist" who isn't really a scientist in the proper sense of the word, but a religious prosletyser. Think of them as evangelists who have a science degree. Their religion comes first to them, not the quest for truth. In conclusion I must tell you this, when i went to church this morning, I was overwhelmed with the power of the holy spirit, I felt something more, something so much more. His hand was on me that morning, filling me up with such happiness, such piece, such adoration. His word has so much power, so much love, and piece. Emotions cannot comprehend it, something we cannont contain. Did you read the message I sent you? On your profile, that one. I feel the same way when I read certain old books. I am taken in by the stories, in as deep a manner as you are. Your religion isn't real, neither are my favourite stories, both are fiction capable of inducing strong feelings which lend no veracity. PLEASE GIVE IT A CHANCE. You tell me to look into science, I will. So please do the same for me. Why do you think I am irreligious? I studied it, looked into it. Knowing Christianity made me an atheist. You need to read science from college textbooks. Absolutely DO NOT get your science from Answers in Genesis or Discovery Institute, or any creationist or Christian sites or books. Religious websites and books distort science, often in ways that a person like you cannot detect, because you must be well-educated to see it. If you care about the truth you'll learn about science from secular textbooks. Then after learning the details from these textbooks, read a creationist website to see how they omit important details, how they use forged evidence to support their arguments, how they make bald assertions. The best way to see that I am right is to read your religious and creationist sources AFTER gaining a deep understanding of science and logic. Side: No
christianity isnt a disease. I dont need to be cured. That kinda is like your attitude with christianity. And know you havent been through it before. Its not the same. This is more powerful and more real. This isnt just a book its the word of God. When you recognize that then you well be impacted by it more. If you see it as just an old book then you will see it just as an old book. The End. Do you beleive evil exists? People see science in different ways. You can still recognize that it is Gods creation and still study it. You make science seem like it is a religion initself and disproves everything about God. You say all christian scientists do not study evolution and are ignorant and the same can be said about atheists. They are ignorant behond beleif because they do not want to bother even considering another possibility other then what is in front of their face. Dont bother looking over that flat image, instead you guys decide to just study that flat image that is blocking the view of something that is far more spectacular. What is the purpose in even having the ability to think in the first place, if were all going to die in the harsh reality of nothingness. What is the purpose for feelings and emotions, dreams, failures, success. There isnt none becuase were all going to die so what is the point? To benifit mankind? To benifit people that you beleive are all going to die and wither away? So in away being atheist is just a scapegoat. People who dont want to see it any other way becuase supposively science is 100% accurate and proves that christianity is wrong. And where does this reasoning come from? Just our own. And whos to say that our reasoning is even true or even accurate. Whos to say that science is even true? Side: yes
christianity isnt a disease. I dont need to be cured. That kinda is like your attitude with christianity. And know you havent been through it before. More, delusion. A persistent delusion. I used to be just as faithful as you, I know exactly how it felt, what those many years were like. Did you think I just became this way, anti-religious, by happenstance? No. I was a true believer for most of my life, until I learned more about my religion, and couldn't reconcile its absurd sense of morality with my own. I am a deeply moral person, and biblical morality just wasn't right. Eventually I lost the need for god's approval, and then I looked at sources of information with less fear and bias, and then I dropped god. People see science in different ways. Sometimes, yes, when there's ambiguity that isn't fully supported one way or the other. You can still recognize that it is Gods creation and still study it. You actually cannot. This is because we know now that we aren't part of a creation. You make science seem like it is a religion initself and disproves everything about God. Forgive me for being unclear, then. The best way to describe science, is that it is a pursuit of testable, falsifiable knowledge that doesn't seek to explain the supernatural, or magic. It only cares about nature. HOWEVER, because the naturalistic explanations that science grants us have advanced so much in the last five centuries, we can explain so much about life and the universe without having to even consider the possibility of divine intervention. Therefore when you learn all that science can offer you are left feeling that there is no need to hope for god, because pursuing the scientific method will most likely arrive at an answer one day for the question you seek (if it's about how nature works). In other words science doesn't try to disprove god, it just seems to make god unnecessary. You say all christian scientists do not study evolution and are ignorant and the same can be said about atheists. No, I said that creation scientists are ignorant of evolution and ideologically motivated. You can be a Christian scientist, and a good scientist, but you'll find that you must never let your religion enter your research, otherwise you could be biasing your results, and lose academic credibility. Are you arguing that atheists don't study evolution, or that they're ignorant? Really, both can be true. Atheism doesn't require that you be learned or a scientist. The only thing that makes you an atheist is that you don't believe in god. They are ignorant behond beleif because they do not want to bother even considering another possibility other then what is in front of their face. Dont bother looking over that flat image, instead you guys decide to just study that flat image that is blocking the view of something that is far more spectacular. It's not a matter of "wanting" but "can't see the need." What I mean is, when you stop believing in god, there's not so much a need to believe in fanciful stories and oral traditions about an afterlife. It's easier to just accept the reality in front of us, and if one day we find some way to prove that life after death can happen, then we will accept it. What is the purpose in even having the ability to think in the first place, if were all going to die in the harsh reality of nothingness. The simple answer is that there is no purpose behind it, no intent. It sounds bleak and nihilistic, but it's what our best knowledge tells us. Intelligence merely helps us survive, helps us out-compete our enemies, find food, etc. It doesn't exist in a grand scheme of design. What is the purpose for feelings and emotions, dreams, failures, success. There isnt none becuase were all going to die so what is the point? Again, there is no purpose to them. They are byproducts of evolution and must have some survivability aspect to them, or they are free-riders with neutral benefit. I'm sorry I can't sell you a city of gold, with fountains of caramel and houses made of diamond. Reality isn't an easy thing to promote, it simply is. I can suggest that you don't look for purpose in these things, but instead seek to make a purpose for yourself. That's the best we can do, make our own purpose, our own life, before we die and cease to exist. Sure, I wish I could live so many more years, but life doesn't care. I have to accept reality. To benifit mankind? To benifit people that you beleive are all going to die and wither away? That's another goal. You hope to achieve something that gets you remembered for a while. But you keep focusing on the negative of it. Can you imagine how terrible immortality would be? Never being able to let life stop. No matter how many millions or billions of years you exist, life just goes on. Imagine an afterlife where you're with family (that's sweet) but then imagine waking up, going to church, going home, having lunch, sitting in the perfect sun, eating dinner, going to bed, again and again for a quadrillion years. How many times can you enjoy talking to a beloved one before you go crazy? A million times? A billion? A quadrillion? A googol? Imagine the most perfect life, but it never stops. No matter how many years, does a billion sound like a large number to you? Imagine a billion billion, or a billion billion billion years, of just living. However that isn't an eternity, an eternity NEVER ends. So in away being atheist is just a scapegoat. I think you mean to use the word "excuse" but it isn't. Once you're atheist after being religious, it's practically impossible to buy into religion again. People who dont want to see it any other way becuase supposively science is 100% accurate and proves that christianity is wrong. Only a fool would claim that science is 100% accurate, it's just the best tool we have for obtaining knowledge about nature. Also, you can't use science to disprove the Christian god, because he's unfalsifiable. You can only use logic to show he is contradictory. You can, however, show that certain biblical claims (like a worldwide flood) are impossible, using scientific knowledge. And where does this reasoning come from? Just our own. And whos to say that our reasoning is even true or even accurate. Whos to say that science is even true? It's deeply troubling but the truth is that we are very fallible creatures. All we can do is create systems of reasoning, hope they work and try to fix them when they fail, and through thousands of years of refinement it seems that our ability to reason and gain knowledge works. After all, it's brought us to the moon, cured our diseases, fed us and kept us warm, and so on. Again, I can't promise you gilded clouds and sapphire skies, I can just show you a way to learn about reality. Side: No
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