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Debate Info

56
41
Yes No
Debate Score:97
Arguments:66
Total Votes:116
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 Yes (38)
 
 No (26)

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Thejackster(517) pic



Does the Bible promote racism?

Yes

Side Score: 56
VS.

No

Side Score: 41
2 points

Yes no problem there for the biblical brute they call God all in a days work for this tyrant who delights In torturing his subjects whats most sickening is the slaughter of babies

Old testament is filled with racism, murder, sexism, incest, rape, genocide, baby killing, etc.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel (1 Samuel 15:2-3)

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. (Psalms 137:9)

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. (Hosea 9:16)

Loving God indeed .

Side: Yes
Justahuman(114) Clarified
2 points

While it is totally true that those are things said in the bible, and at this moment we see those acts (killing women and babies and animals) as horrible, I do feel like biblical quotes like that need some historical context to be fully appreciated and analyzed.

First of all the idea of slaying every man, woman, child and animal was a very common war practice at the time, for all nations and people of all religions. This was probably in part a military strategy, but not entirely. Most wars were thought of as not only people fighting people, but a test of who's god was stronger. Therefore when a battle was won it was seen as the work of god (any god be it the Jewish god or the Babylonian one). So it was common for people to kill and burn all animals and possessions after a battle, as those spoils belonged to god alone, and not the people of the nation.

Secondly the babies head against rocks psalm is horrible, yes. However it helpful to know that it is not some arbitrary statement of infanticide. The psalm was written about the Jews after their exile from their holy land to Babylon. They had been defeated and forced out of their homes and were therefore very upset. The psalm starts with them lamenting the defeat, and then in the end the writer is angry and wishes God to punish the Babylonians for conquering them and forcing them into exile.

So to be clear, those passages of the bible ARE quite gruesome and seem heartless. However its also very useful to see their larger historical context, showing that none of those beliefs are uncommon for the time period. And yes there is then the argument that they should not then be used for this time period, and in fact most people do not directly take these words without a grain of salt and rational thought.

Side: Yes
Dermot(5453) Disputed
2 points

Hi there ok let's be clear I know about the spoils of war and the way certain people behaved , but we have a huge problem here and this is it ...God who is all knowing and supposedly loving orders these murders with perfect knowledge and understanding he said in the bible that not one word or action of his can be questioned because he is God but yet you and others keep saying it's not in context .This is actually the only defence left for a Christian and it's pretty lame I have laid out chapter and verse for other Christians here and they ignore them, say an atheist can't interpret them, or context is wrong .

The truth is they cannot find the ways to back there God up .

Tell me if God made me in his image and I have never killed a living creature ( not even a fly ) and he has killed 2.8 million ( low estimate ) how does that make God a better person than me ? Do you not find that a bit unfair?

What really saddens Me God directly ordered infanticide and if the Christians on this site had of been there they would have applauded his decision and relished the deaths as God slaughtered innocents , now that's frightening .Can you not see how aligned this thinking is too what the Taliban think ? It's quiet a similar mindset . And remember you say " it has to be taken with a grain of salt " you justify this thugs actions and then say it has to be taken with a grain of salt , your God said and I repeat do not change one word of his command or law yet here we are yet another person changing his word to save him from his self ....God has killed more people than Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Sadam Hussein, Milosevic, Osama Bin Laden and Jim Jones combined. Why would you not follow them instead of God? Based on this standard, these monsters are compassionate compared to God.

Side: No
2 points

The messages of the bible definitely do!

If you don't follow Gods orders, then he'll punish you. He is like the master and we are his slaves. Because of this, it gave people the idea that having slaves was OK.

Eventually, some people found a group of not very civilized humans.

Brought them into slavery, (because God makes slavery sound like a good thing) and then treated them like they were lesser human beings.

That's how racism came to be.

Side: Yes
orangepeel(188) Disputed
2 points

If you don't follow Gods orders, then he'll punish you.

Actually, he won't do anything.

Because of this, it gave people the idea that having slaves was OK. Eventually, some people found a group of not very civilized humans. Brought them into slavery, (because God makes slavery sound like a good thing) and then treated them like they were lesser human being

Ok, two things mate: the institution of slavery was very different during Bible times and under the Roman Empire from the trans-atlantic slave trade. People used to sell themselves into slavery in order to pay off a debt and to get free housing, food, clothing, etc. Slaves were expected to obey their masters, and masters were expected to look after their slaves properly. After Constantine and the influence of Christianity on the Roman empire, slave-holders were required to release their slaves on the seventh year and forgive all debts. It was a system based on economic realities rather than sexual or racial prejudices.

Had you abolished slavery back then, thousands of people may have starved to death. Of course the Bible wouldn't have advocated something so evil :)

Also, the Bible outright condemns enslavement IE those brought into slavery against their will. IE the entire book of exodus, Slave traders are listed as condemned, Timothy condemns taking another person against their will...

That's how racism came to be.

Actually it came to be through colonization and imperialism. A lot of it in the US came after the civil war and after abolition.

Side: No
1 point

"slave-holders were required to release their slaves on the seventh year and forgive all debts. It was a system based on economic realities rather than sexual or racial prejudices."

The seven year rule only applied to male israelite slaves. It doesn't apply to women or people from other nations as shown in the verses below. So it was very much based on sexual and racial prejudices.

Leviticus 25:44-46 - "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

In other words, permanent slavery is okay as long as they are not Israelites. During slavery in the United States people used to say slavery is okay as long as they are from Africa. I wonder where they got that idea.

"Also, the Bible outright condemns enslavement IE those brought into slavery against their will. IE the entire book of exodus, Slave traders are listed as condemned"

I don't know what version of the Bible you're reading but it's clearly not the one the rest of us read. Not only does Exodus not condemn slavery, it defines the rules for it.

Exodus 21:2-6 - "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life."

In other words, to get around the 6 year limitation you can hold a slave's wife and child hostage to get him to be your slave for life.

Exodus 21:20-21 - "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."

So it's okay to beat your slaves because they are your "property" as long as they survive the beating, and guess who said that? Lets jump to the beginning of the chapter 20 to see where it all begins. "And God spoke all these words. He goes on to say "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery...'"

He made a point of saying that he brought them out of the land of slavery. Why would he mention that unless he thought slavery was a bad thing? Hmmm...god thinks slavery is bad but says it's okay to make permanent slaves out of women and non-israelites. This is just one of many examples of god playing favorites.

Here is one about selling your daughters into slavery/marriage.

Exodus 21:7-11 - "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money."

Do you think selling your daughter to someone is a moral thing to do? God doesn't have a problem with it so it must be okay, right?

People used the Bible to justify slavery. Here are some books written by people explaining how the Bible justifies slavery and should therefore be allowed.

-Scriptural and Statistical Views in Favor of Slavery by Stringfellow, Thornton

-Scriptural Researches on the Licitness of the Slave-trade: Shewing Its Conformity with the Principles of Natural & Revealed Religion, Delineated in the Sacred Writings of the Word of God

Side: Yes
Thejackster(517) Disputed
0 points

I think its disgusting that your attempting to justify slavery, saying "if slavery didnt exist back then people would starve." Thats the exact same arguments made by slave owners (most deeply religous christians btw) to justify the ownership of other human beings, along the lines of "we shelter them, feed them, and teach them hard work."

Side: Yes
2 points

f--k yeah it does.

its always saying how you are better then every one and your chosen. and the people from eagypt and the people of muhamed and the people that followed Jesus.

even though it doesn't really say the last one

my point is you cant be better then someone and have equality.

an the bible is a totaly slut shaming book. so much negative about a girl trying to get a good rub.

and masturbation the big no no it just puts people in that category and shames and belittles them till death

there is so much wrong with the bible Koran and Torah its just not fair. we get one life, and one choice. to live like a kid thinking your better cuz you say a few cute words.

or to grow up and push forward in life to make yourself and family and friends life better.

the bible is like the red pill or the blue pill from the matrix.

live the lie

or change it

Side: Yes

There are some passages that do promote racism when referring to enslaving certain people.

Side: Yes
3 points

God shows not partiality to any one nation. God extends His love to His elect, which come from all different tongues and nations; God destroys all who disobey Him.

Side: No
Thejackster(517) Disputed
0 points

Well gods a jerk, he allows so many catastrophies. To happen, btw did all those filistine children deserve to be killed? Were the babies and infants who lived in Sodom and Gohmora deserve to be killed? Why is it that all these fundementalist Christians and Orthodox Jews want to kick out all the Palestinian natives who had lived for centuries in that location simply because the "Israelites" are Gods chosen people?

Side: Yes
lolzors93(3225) Disputed Banned
1 point

Turn to Psalm 107. And yes, the children deserved to die as well. Even though they were children, they were evil and deserved death; for all deserve death.

Side: No
0 points

What, can't take an opposing viewpoint so you ban it?????????????????????????????????????????

Side: No
2 points

Awe Hell Nah! Not that I know of anyway? Jesus and his crew were all cool... they would never suggest giving anyone the shaft over their race.

Jesus
Side: No
1 point

i havent seen anywhere in the Bible where it says racism is okay.. since most of the time it talks about how we arent supposed to judge anyone

Side: No
Thejackster(517) Disputed
1 point

The bible makes endless justifications of the Hebrews to enslave all the children, murder all the men, and rape all the women of the tribe that they conqured, basically saying that since they are "Gods chosen people" they are superior to all other tribes and races.

Side: Yes
izzybug(4) Disputed
1 point

they were His chosen people but not because they were black or white or brown. it wasnt based off skin color it was based off their culture, ideals, morals etc

Side: No
1 point

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

Side: No
2 points

Yes, they were all one...even the slaves whose captivity and murder were sanctioned by God. Kumbafuckingya.

Side: Yes
1 point

Galatians 3:28

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Side: No
Thejackster(517) Disputed
1 point

Yet it does not condem slavery in any passage in the bible, saying that someone is equal, but actually treating them as an equal are two very different things, in fact it goes further to prove racism by the fact that Hebrew slaves were only to serve their master for six years, slaves of any other race and/or nationality were to be slaves for life according to the bible, that sir is racism.

Side: Yes
NateDebate(66) Disputed
1 point

Show me where it says that..........................................

Side: No
Dermot(5453) Disputed
1 point

Well no not really Genesis 16:8-9

And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

Oh dear plenty more in the good book

Side: Yes

This is also one of many passages that supports misogyny and sexism

Side: Yes
1 point

John 7:24

"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

Side: No
Thejackster(517) Disputed
1 point

Once again, words and actions differ extremley, for example, the founding fathers of the USA put all men are created equal in the declaration of independence, but owned slaves because they considered people of African descent to be subhuman, they didn't think of them as people, much like how the bible views non hebrew people.

Side: Yes
2 points

Another little verse God approving slavery there are loads Genesis 16:8-9

And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

Maybe it's out of CONTEXT ha ha

Side: Yes
NateDebate(66) Disputed
1 point

Those are two different generations you're trying to compare there. In Biblical times ethnic races that we refer to today had not even been decided then. (For those that believe in this)- God created the Adamic race, firstly Adam and Eve to be the perfect Christ children and we were supposed to follow their example but we f*cked it for ourselves. The definition of racism as we know it today is not likely to not have had the same meaning back then it would have more likely been 'each kind of people had their own position' without being considered racist and now we live in a time where just about anything and everything is considered racist or can easily be mistaken for racism.

Side: No

I'm really not sure. Bible by my knowledge was written by humans to build a better sociability for their rulers to govern their cities. The Bible might be written under a specific aim. But I think that not Bible rises the racism, but we humans use Bible's teachings to prove false things.

Side: No
1 point

There is the story told by Jesus of the good samaritin. It was a story that really annoyed thepharisees because it helped break that racism against foreigners.

Side: No

God created everyone and everything. He does not discriminate. However, many kingdoms over the centuries. Have committed many lawless deeds. In

2 Peter 2:7-10 the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are described as "those who indulged the flesh in its corrupt desires and despised authority" so whatever the dirty mind can think of they did without fear of punishment. No local aurthority kept the people in check.

Can you imagine seeing people murdered, raped, beatened, held against their will, communicating with demons, dabbling in the occult, etc everyday done by everyone even children?

This was what it was like for Lot to witness all these atrocities and nothing he could do, but pray to God and keep his family from the sinfulness of those cities.

They even went as far as attempting to rape God's angels, "the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly." Genesis 19:4-13.

So as you can tell the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are extremely wickedy. They had to be destroyed.

In Noah's time angels (before Lot) came down from Heaven. Who defies God and manifested as powerful, large being and had sex with women, and produced half breeds known as Nephilim. These half breeds are described in Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown."

So the sins of mankind increased more so becuase now you have got intelligent beings guiding you away from God even further.

So far everyone including children were not so innocent after all. Not only that, God gave them a chance at redemption. He allowed Noah (in return God will not destroy them) to find 100 - 1 people who are righteous, but Noah could not find at least one person.

The same sins also were practiced by the Egyptians. Pharoah did not want to release God's (now enslaved) chosen people. He treated them cruelly. God in return sent the plagues to convince Pharoah. The last being the slaughter of the first born sons in the land. However, the God gave the Israelites a tip to avoid the angel of death. Only the Israelites were spared of the plagues.

Many of the popular Christian teachings have been interpreted by those who have no understanding of what the Bible or God is about. Take Catholic priests. They all undergo 12+ years of education only a third of this time do they actually learn directly from the Bible. Yet, they are supposed to be experts of the Bible.

God judged people according to their deeds and only when He does do people open their eyes. It takes a miraculous act to convince people. Unbelievable! We ourselves only seem to believe what we can see.

"Air is not important unless you are not getting any."

- Unknown

I will leave this quote up here for you to make whatever you will out of it.

Side: No
Thejackster(517) Disputed
1 point

1. So everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah were "rapists"? Even the children? The infants? Did they deserve to die?

2. Why would god even allow the Israelites to be enslaved in the first place? And rather than using his "divine intervention" to free the Israelites himself without any blood shed or at least punishing only the pharoah directly, instead he decided to send plagues that killed every first born child of egypt

3. Almost every violent act commited by the crusaders in the dark ages correlates in direct word with the bible, the christianity that exist today is the secularized watered down version which resulted from the enlightenment.

4. I dont see how that quote on air has anything to do with this

Side: Yes
michael95113(27) Disputed
1 point

1) God created everything so He can do whatever He wants to every single creation. Yet, He only does so in order for us to benefit. It is a wonder why He doesn't just erase us all from existence whenever we sin. Those Egyptian infants would end up just like their parents. Pagan, sinful, and evil really.

2) God allowed them to be enslaved because most of the Israelites served other gods like the Pagan Nations. So when they realized there was no other god than God that is only when God intervened. The Israelites promised to obey God, but did not live up to it. Therefore, resulting in them being enslaved multiple times all of which God freed them from.

The Egyptians killed all the infants of the Israelites because they were afraid of an uprising. Then when God's angel killed their first born sons of the Egyptians suddenly, He's the unfair one. All the Egyptians had a hand in the mistreatment, massacre, and beating of the Israelites.

3) Crusaders are Christians who twist God's word. Fighting amongst themselves. They were the early Catholic Church.

Please do not mix up popular belief with the Bible. They are not the same.

I think if you would see that quote of air can be transferred to God's guidance.

Side: No