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Totes magotes! Trust the system.
Debate Score:16
Arguments:24
Total Votes:18
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 Totes magotes! (8)
 
 Trust the system. (1)

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Does the US educational system need a full rework?

Too much focus on standardized testing and checking off a checklist of what to cram into the school year has gotten the American Educational System way off track from actually educating children. For having such intelligent citizens but such a flawed educational system is such a waste of potential.

Totes magotes!

Side Score: 15
VS.

Trust the system.

Side Score: 1

Yes, as a student I would like a reform of the educational system. I think we need smaller class sizes and more funding toward special education services.

Side: Totes magotes!
3 points

When I was a teacher, I taught English, math, and life science at various times to kids that ranged from grades 6 to 12.

The biggest problems I saw were:

- 1 - Overcomplication of the educational process. We took something basic and turned it into an unnecessarily expensive Rube Goldberg device.

Except when learning to use particular tools, digital technology does not actually help kids learn better. Sure, computers are required for learning to use computers, but they provide no advantage over pencils when learning to write, think scientifically or learn about history.

Fancy textbooks that specify the particular state's standards or standardized test requirement in a list at the beginning of the chapter make the textbooks more expensive, and add nothing to the ability of the kids to learn.

The most valuable aspects of the curriculum is skills development, and that requires nothing fancier or more complicated than practice and repetition. It is not exciting, but it is time-tested and proven to work.

- 2 - The curriculum is almost exclusively based on the assumption that the students will go to college, or (in some schools) go to a voc/tech school

Face it, if all you are qualified for after 13 years of "free and appropriate education" is more education, then everybody wasted their time. The students know this.

Most behavior problems are curriculum problems, either because it is too advanced, too easy, or just plain irrelevant to what the kids want to do with their lives. The students are not being given a sense that they are getting the tools to do something defined or important to them, so many do not bother to learn what would seem to any rational person like useless trivia.

We need to make the curriculum more oriented toward both hard and soft skills that are about DEFINED life goals, whether professions, trades, capabilities that students want.

The generalized college prep crap needs to be reserved only for those kids who have no concept of who they are or what they want to do, but are in the top third of academic performance or ability.

- 3 - We move all students through the process too fast for many, and we have given up on the need for mastery. We need to teach fewer skills per year, spend more time on practice of those we teach, and retain kids at grade level (hold back, flunk) kids who fail to master the skills.

Most skills have prerequisite skills, and those who have not mastered the precursors to their current curriculum are at such a disadvantage that they cannot be successful. Moving these kids along regardless of failure leads to continued and often perennial failure, discouragement, self esteem issues, behavior problems, and wasted money and time.

We spend billions of dollars per year on standardized tests that actually tell us whether the students learned the subject matter/skills, but we do not use that to tell us whether the kid goes on to the next grade.

As a result of this, I had students in my 9th grade English classes who did not know when to use there, they're, or their, or your or you're. This is in the 3rd grade curriculum. That meant in addition to trying to teach 9th grade English, I also had to teach 3rd through 8th grade English.

I had students in my 8th grade algebra classes who did not know their multiplication tables or how to add fractions, which are 4th grade curriculum. Algebra is much harder for those who do not know the basic relationships between numbers, and impossible for those who cannot perform more complex arithmetic.

Those students would have been better off if they had been held back until they learned the required skills and subject matter.

Side: Totes magotes!
2 points

I feel we need to get back to basics and place more emphasis on the 3Rs, reading, writing and arithmetic.

Of course the sciences and other specialized subjects are highly important, if not vital parts of the curriculum but too many pupils are leaving the education system with very poor literacy and numeracy skills.

Side: Totes magotes!
2 points

There are a lot of things taught that don't need to be, and lots of things not taught that need to be. Times tables are useless, yet basic psychology and an understanding of power dynamics are essential for success, for example. Further, there are few acceptable physical outlets for male aggression and rough-and-tumble-play which is essential to healthy male development. Moreover, strict adherence to curricula mean that rote learning rather than functional understanding is the learning objective, which is the opposite of what would be useful. Finally, people are mostly taught what to think rather than how to think and are given little opportunity to critically evaluate the learning materials.

Side: Totes magotes!
marcusmoon(576) Clarified
1 point

Winston,

As a former teacher, I have a set of observations that support some (only some) of your statements.

You wrote:

There are a lot of things taught that don't need to be, and lots of things not taught that need to be.

and

Further, there are few acceptable physical outlets for male aggression and rough-and-tumble-play which is essential to healthy male development.

You are absolutely correct about the limitations and attempted eradication of normal and healthy activities and behavior in boys. This corresponds with your statement that some things that are not in the curriculum need to be taught (though not necessarily to every student.) ALL STUDENTS need college preparation to STOP being the core of the high school curriculum.

We know from scientific research that boys are naturally more inclined toward physically active behaviors, and that the male brain is more oriented toward things than toward people.

These things combine with the skills gap of 6.3 million jobs that Mike Rowe discusses, indicate a real need for curriculum that is equally oriented toward voc/tech as toward college prep. I was a reading specialist in high school, and boys are about 80% of the kids who are over two years below reading at grade level. Many of my students were "identified" as ADHD, but those "ADHD" kids who were in shop classes (when spots in those classes were available) usually did well in those classes, even when they were failing all their academic courses. Face it, when a kid works with a band saw, but still has both thumbs, he does not have an attention deficit. There is a different problem.

That problem is that the kid intuits that much of the standard curriculum is useless in the real world, and has no connection with what he wants to do with his life.

Four years of literature analysis and academic writing is required for high school graduation in most districts, but NONE of that is useful in the professional world. It is ONLY appropriate for the academic world. This is fine for college prep, but it is inadequate for the real world of work.

I know this because now I am a technical writer, and it turns out that almost everything I taught my students about writing (with the exception of spelling and punctuation) was COMPLETELY WRONG. The type of reading and writing required in the professional world is not poetry and fiction and opinion pieces; it is technical manuals, regulations, standard operating procedures, requirements documents, and proposals. Professional writing in those documents is short sentences that are devoid of figurative language, and that rely on bulleted/numbered lists, diagrams, outlines, and topic headings.

At least half of my students would have been better served by a two year voc/tech program that resulted in a professional certification in a trade, than being taught about conflicts, character development, and onomatopoeia.

Side: Totes magotes!
1 point

Does the US educational system need a full rework?

I have a lot to say about this topic--and, will begin here, for now:

The way the current "education" system is set up is that of a large-scale, "mandatory", mediocre day-care center for parents to have kids attend. The primary goal is to to pass the time 'safely', without major incidents occurring, secondary is assimilation into the given order of things, third, if any real learning takes place, that is simply a bonus, though not a requirement--also, if too much real learning occurs, that will conflict with (2) and is therefore not allowed.

If they (accurately) labeled themselves as a government mandated 'day-care center', I would not be taking as much issue with it (though, there still would be a lot to criticize)

Side: Totes magotes!

We don't have an education system when students experience discrimination due to disability, skin color, or clkass.

Side: Totes magotes!
0 points

No doubt we need some changes. The idea of making those changes without a list of nationally accepted rules, though, is CRAZY! Allowing the rich and corporations to set up their own schools, teach a curriculum that is not laid out by the people, is one more step to authoritarianism, theological control or an oligarchy!

Some changes need to be made. The $20B Trump wants for his ridiculous "wall" would do FAR more good invested in education ... and save far more lives!

Side: Trust the system.
Amarel(5669) Disputed
2 points

Allowing the rich and corporations to set up their own schools, teach a curriculum that is not laid out by the people, is one more step to authoritarianism, theological control or an oligarchy!

You must be against home schooling (Home schooled students tend to outperform public school students). Allowing me to only teach my kids what is governmentally approved is a huge step toward authoritarianism.

The $20B Trump wants for his ridiculous "wall" would do FAR more good invested in education .

Not historically. Our educational spending has increased exponentially over time while our educational performance has stagnated or declined.

Side: Totes magotes!
AlofRI(3294) Clarified
1 point

"You must be against home schooling" You are ass-u-me-ing, and you know what that does. No, I am NOT against home schooling if the parent is capable. It takes some load off our underfunded schools.

What I'm against is wealthy people or corporations teaching only what THEY want kids to learn .... indoctrination!

"Our educational spending has increased....." NOT nearly enough to cover the increase in population, or the increase in wages to keep up with the cost of living and the need for larger schools! THAT'S why our educational performance has stagnated. Some would rather build walls and subsidize corporations that don't need it!

Side: Totes magotes!