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Debate Score:185
Arguments:238
Total Votes:191
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 Doesn't Lucifer seem more justified in his anger than God? (180)

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Ignoramis(381) pic



Doesn't Lucifer seem more justified in his anger than God?

So from what I hear, God asked Lucifer to serve humanity and he said no. The same God that created the flood to wipe out most of humanity initially ... the same god that said at one point, "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". The same God that put a baby in 12 year old Mary's body, rather than making the baby appear out of thin air. The same God that kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden for eating the forbidden fruit .... The same God that let his son, Jesus, die on the cross ...

So apparently, Lucifer was the favorite, and then God liked humans better. So God said, humans are better than you, serve them ...
I don't know, it doesn't seem right to me ... Imagine the same situation with your father and brother, and your dad tells you to serve your brother and bow down to him, because he likes him better after you've done so much for your father out of love ... I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me.

God seems petty, mean, and irrational to me.
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2 points

Lucifer would be more justified to be angry but from all appearances, as well as the biblical tales, Yahweh has murdered millions more than Lucifer ever did.

In the Torah we can find stories of God......committing ethnic cleansing; killing children (the Passover)...as well as the story about those kids calling Elijah "baldy."

We see Yahweh murdering all those innocent animals during the Flood, just cuz he was pissed at humans.

We see Yahweh telling Moses to kill those restless thousands of Hebrews who grew bored of waiting for him to come down from Sinai with the 10 Commandments and began making a golden calf.

We see Yahweh having Lot offer up his two daughters to gang rape, just so two of his freaking angels wouldn't be buggered.

We see Yahweh today allowing the daily murdering and killing from disease of thousands of people who believe in him and pray to him.

Yahweh. What a douche.

Lucifer on the other hand has NEVER DONE ANY OF THESE THINGS!!!

It could be offered that HE is our true ally, and is down in the trenches with us. "A Fan of Man!" as Pacino said in that great movie.

Yahweh disgusted me even as a child. I thought him to be a petty and malevolent murderous psychopath. He is by far the most loathsome god I ever read about in all my readings of various religions.

Period.

Thanks!

SS

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Jeremiah 23

12 “Therefore their way will be like slippery paths to them,

They will be driven away into the gloom and fall down in it;

For I will bring calamity upon them,

The year of their punishment,” declares the Lord.

13 “Moreover, among the prophets of Samaria I saw an offensive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led My people Israel astray.

14 “Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers,

So that no one has turned back from his wickedness.

All of them have become to Me like Sodom,

And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

15 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets, ‘Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood

And make them drink poisonous water,

For from the prophets of Jerusalem

Pollution has gone forth into all the land.’”

16 Thus says the Lord of hosts,

“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility;

They speak a vision of their own imagination,

Not from the mouth of the Lord.

17 “They keep saying to those who despise Me,

‘The Lord has said, “You will have peace”’;

And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, They say, ‘Calamity will not come upon you.’

18 “But who has stood in the council of the Lord,

That he should see and hear His word?

Who has given heed to His word and listened?

19 “Behold, the storm of the Lord has gone forth in wrath,

Even a whirling tempest;

It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.

20 “The anger of the Lord will not turn back

Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart;

.

In the last days you will clearly understand it.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I think slappy is a waste of time. He idolizes Richard Dawkins the pedophile.

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

If God kills you today, would He be wrong for doing it ?

Thanks!!!

I hope this helps!!

SN

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Here is evidence!

Will you look? You ask for evidence, then you don't look!

https://youtu.be/EQbrEGP2NAc

82 scientist got together with mathmatical equations and developed a list of minimal required expectations, and scientific properties that would have to exist or have occurred in order to have any reasonable expectations of the existence of alien life.

We exist by miracle! Science proves God!

https://youtu.be/EQbrEGP2NAc

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Here is evidence!

Will you look? You ask for evidence, then you don't look!

https://youtu.be/EQbrEGP2NAc

82 scientist got together with mathmatical equations and developed a list of minimal required expectations, and scientific properties that would have to exist or have occurred in order to have any reasonable expectations of the existence of alien life.

We exist by miracle! Science proves God!

https://youtu.be/EQbrEGP2NAc

1 point

Maybe God did it for the lols.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

God does say He will laugh at people who go against Him, and He will mock them when horrible things befall them after they rejected His counsel and would not take correction from Him.

1 point

I'm glad He has a sense of humor. ;)

1 point

Just like in any other fiction, one can make any character the hero, and the other the goat. One can twist the story to make the bad guy look good at times and the good guy look bad. It makes entertaining reading, but the fact is it is all made up by its human author(s), so you can choose which ever character you wish to be the hero ... it's just a story. Make up your own variation (or "version") many do. Millions live by different versions and interpretations. I like fiction too ... but I have my own favorite authors, and NONE of them have re-written versions of those particular books.

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”

Says the Lord,

“Though your sins are as scarlet,

They will be as white as snow;

Though they are red like crimson,

They will be like wool.

19 “If you consent and obey,

You will eat the best of the land;

20 “But if you refuse and rebel,

You will be devoured by the sword.”

Truly, the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

Rabbinical Tradition

The ancient Hebrew sages believed, of course, that God created the heavens and the earth. However, some of them believed that the Word of God was the very template with which He did it.

This strikes some of us as simply a colorful exaggeration that goes beyond any direct evidence.

There are hints here and there. There are two well-known references to the creation in the Scripture:

Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1. Let’s look “underneath” the text of each of these.

Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

In Hebrew:

Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew

If you examine the numerical values of each of the Hebrew letters, and the numerical value of the words (see chart), and apply them to this formula:

The number of letters x the product of the letters

÷

The number of words x the product of the words

You get 3.1416 x 1017. The value of π to four decimal places!

.....Hmm.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In Greek:

John 1: 1 in Greek

This time if you take the numerical value of each of the Greek letters (see chart), and the numerical value of the words, and apply them to the same formula:

The number of letters x the product of the letters

÷

The number of words x the product of the words

You now get 2.7183 x 1040, the value of e. Curious!

.

Significance?

Each of these is another of those puzzling ostensible “coincidences” that are too astonishing to dismiss, and yet present challenges in suggesting any real significance.

3 And taken together, they do evoke some conjectures.

There are, however, at least two problems: why just four decimal places (they both deviate from the fifth place onwards) and what do you do with all the “extra zeroes”?

Matt 11

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants.

26 Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight.

27 All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Jesus calls chasing after the world a yoke. He compares His yoke, and says it is easy and restful. A yoke is a bar guided.

We all wear a yoke, we are all slaves, one yoke leads to adoption as children, the others never are

released from their yoke.

No certificate of freedom.

Your yoke determines if you will remain a slave to a cruel taskmaster or if you will be born again and be renewed daily till you see Him as He fully is, and are changed in a twinkling of an eye.

FYI, twinkling of an eye is a scientific term. It's the aperture of light through the pupil of the eye. It's a fraction of light and time in the lowest divisible form.

The Bible has more science in it then you can imagine!

It's interesting they used a knowledge they couldn't have scientifically defined or knew of.

The field of biology has now discovered it is restricted by the boundary conditions of the information sciences. Its historical love affair with Darwinism is now being shattered by advances in microbiology, highlighted by the disturbing revelations of Michael Denton, Philip Johnson, and Michael Behe, et al., revealing biology's apparent immunity to truth and reason.

But now the field of physics, too, is in turmoil. Quantum physics has resulted in the abandonment of causality, the cornerstone of empirical science. And whether we address the units of length, mass, or time, we discover that they are composed of indivisible units that ultimately cannot be divided without losing their "locality."

The more one knows about particle physics and quantum mechanics, the more provocative these "science fiction" episodes become. Indeed, it was Dr. Albert Einstein that admitted,

People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between the past, present, and the future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.

And as physics goes, so too the entire field of cosmology. I believe it was Paul Davies who observed,

It is as if our entire universe is nothing more than a thought in the Mind of God.

The current genre of virtual reality films, while still retaining many of the moral deficiencies that have come to characterize the products of our entertainment industry, can still be provocative and useful in conceptualizing our present situation: we find ourselves in what can be accurately described as a digital simulation.

And transitions in and out of our space-time - from one "hyperspace" to another - is a potential rationalization of the more disturbing UFO reports and other apparent visits from dimensionalities other than our own.

It is also a way of conceptualizing the strangest transition of all: the harpazo, the "Great Snatch," which Paul alludes to in

1 Thessalonians 4:16 -18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.

(A "twinkling of an eye" is not to be confused with a blink; at the speed of light passing through the retina, it is about 10-43 seconds - the very digital boundary of time itself.)

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/190/

.

.

1 point

Doesn't Lucifer seem more justified in his anger than God?

It seems to me you're putting your own spin on what the Bible says. When God finished creating the universe and man as I understand it, God commanded all of heaven to bowel to the creation he had just completed but Lucifer objected to that stating to God "We Were Created First." I take that he didn't care about these creatures on this planet called Earth.

I also understand that part of Lucifer's job was to test humans to see if they genuinely loved God. I believe the Bible bares this out when God praise Job, it was Lucifer who wanted to put Job to the test and it was Lucifer who killed the majority of Job's family it was Lucifer who influenced Job's wife to try and force Job to curse God and die.

The point about allowing his son to die on the cross as being a bad thing then based on God's standards if his son hadn't died on that cross that would have been the end of mankind for ever. From as far back in the Bible as I can see Sin was not a little thing and people/animals (for man's sins) paid a heavy price. Adam and Eve would no longer listen to or obey God then they can no longer stay in the garden of Eden. Mankind was nothing but hateful, rapist, killers, evil people so keeping them around wasn't going to improve life but rather further drag it down.

Understanding the Bible when it came to impregnating Mary in order for salvation to begin someone had to be free of all sin and though God look through the universe to find such a person the only one he could find was his son.. That person could not be born in the traditional sense that we understand birth because anyone born that way is already under the judgment so the child had to be part human and the other part free of sin as I said only one being qualified and had he not accepted that he would have to go through this trial mankind would have been lost to history forever!

There is however hope for those who believe and worship Satan (Lucifer) as they will be with him again for eternity!

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

If God kills you today, would He be wrong for doing it ?

Jupiter(116) Disputed
1 point

if he was real---------------------------------------------------------------

jeffreyone(1383) Disputed
1 point

Ok it. a choice right? Black and White is a choice.............~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jeffreyone(1383) Disputed
1 point

Man! thats a stupid false doctrine from hell in disguise of being heavenly. When man was created lucifer was no more lucifer . lucifer had already become satan. Please delete it from your mind and avoid sharing this virus

1 point

This one sure was a flop .

1 point

Because it wanted to discuss the Bible and not whatever it is you try to discuss.

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Jeremiah 23

14 “Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers,

So that no one has turned back from his wickedness.

All of them have become to Me like Sodom,

And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

15 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets, ‘Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood

And make them drink poisonous water,

For from the prophets of Jerusalem

Pollution has gone forth into all the land.’”

16 Thus says the Lord of hosts,

“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility;

They speak a vision of their own imagination,

Not from the mouth of the Lord.

17 “They keep saying to those who despise Me,

‘The Lord has said, “You will have peace”’;

And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, They say, ‘Calamity will not come upon you.’

18 “But who has stood in the council of the Lord,

That he should see and hear His word?

Who has given heed to His word and listened?

19 “Behold, the storm of the Lord has gone forth in wrath,

Even a whirling tempest;

It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.

20 “The anger of the Lord will not turn back

Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart;

.

In the last days you will clearly understand it.

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

It was a flop because I didn't show up.....after one year, all I had to do is pop in and say "this one sure was a flop", and suddenly the dead old debate comes to life. Who is your leader?

calvi(10) Disputed
1 point

man whats wrong with you saying that you will knock my teeth out i was looking threw my old mesagges wtf wrong with you saying that

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Is that what I said? Can you copy and paste the quote from me, in context with the whole post?

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

It's probably just the standard stuff I say to idiots like you who put fighting words in my face. I have seen people spit out their teeth, literally, after talking like you talk to me, idiot. I'd be surprised if you have all of your teeth now, as people who talk like you are usually the people with gaps in their mouth where there should be teeth. I have all of my teeth largely because I don't spit fighting words at people like you, idiot.

1 point

Nice! But no cigar!

Stars are referred to as angels throughout scripture, and is detailed incredibly in books of Enoch.

We are just touching the surface of the information and revelation that God is pouring out in these days.

You have to understand the revelation and understanding aspect of the Bible. When Jesus instructed to seek, and to look for the Kingdom like hidden treasures, He was telling us how to find what we need for every time.

The fallen angels looked up and made gods of constellations. These are angels and appointments. When God placed "time" on Day 4.

He did more than earth rotation and a calendar. He placed our times, our seasons, the number of our days, and the work of that time scheduled and appointed.

So, all of your sources are linear.

They have no understanding on the movements of the Spirit of God. And God purposely blinded them, and the Devils they unwittingly serve.

These are His times and purposes, the King and Queen on the chess board do not consult with pawns!

So then if God has blinded them, why seek their wisdom where there is none?

You also need to to realize and understand Christians who hear from God follow the light AS IT IS BEING REVEALED.

So the question is, if He is an unreachable depth, and His Word is hidden treasure, then is it logical to assume everything is already known?

Or is it more logical to look what is known, and expect God to show us more at His appointed time.

He uses the words Appointed time in various terms, He even says not only are events and Prophesy fulfilled at appointed times, He also discusses revelation of these treasures at the appointed time.

Satan is powerful and reads too, shocking, I know.

So if our enemy can pick up the playbook and read it, would it be a wise strategy to not have things hidden, with the Spirit leading His children to find the treasures at their appointed times?

.

Christianity is a walk, it's a following the light and the cloud whenever He moves, which is a picture He gave leading Israel through the desert wilderness when they left Egypt.

Which fyi, ALL of a sudden all these things are being uncovered in these last days. He let deceptions blind the academic skeptic, and all the evil hearts with them, so when His judgement is given, they deserve it by every sealed measure. A slam dunk testimony against them, and a partaking of the blood of those decieved on the earth will be required justice on their heads!

Scarey, and true. The fool in his folly will be dealt the blow of judged demons. Their hearts were against God and his children, those will find no mercy in that day!

Sheol won't ever release them from their torment. God is just, they deserve their punishment for the physical and spiritual deaths they caused, they were instruments of destruction, and doom is their payment IN FULL!

Job 38 is crazy chock full of revelation, God shaking the wicked out!

Earthquake will drop them into the Pit, and the righteous will be separated out as the wicked decending into the wide open mouth of Sheol. They are being marked as we stand.

You are either sealed with His Spirit or your mind is that of oneness of image with the beast of the abyss. fyi no one deserves God's favor, but a willing to understand heart is the one God calls humble, and He exalts the humble. He raises up the humble.

So I'm glad you mentioned Isaiah 14!

Because it is telling you exactly the fate of the wicked, and the star that was once a bright light, that no longer shines in the Heavens, but has been cast down to Sheol. And let out to decieve the Nations, and the people, as God fills them all with the destruction of their flesh and pride, and lust!

Job 38 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,

2 “Who is this that darkens counsel

By words without knowledge?

3 “Now gird up your loins like a man,

And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell Me, if you have understanding,

5 Who set its measurements? Since you know.

Or who stretched the line on it?

6 “On what were its bases sunk?

Or who laid its cornerstone,

7 When the morning stars sang together

And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors

When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;

9 When I made a cloud its garment

And thick darkness its swaddling band,

10 And I placed boundaries on it

And set a bolt and doors,

11 And I said, ‘Thus far you shall come, but no farther;

And here shall your proud waves stop’?

12 “Have you ever in your life commanded the morning,

And caused the dawn to know its place,

13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,

And the wicked be shaken out of it?

14 “It is changed like clay under the seal;

And they stand forth like a garment.

15 “From the wicked their light is withheld,

And the uplifted arm is broken.

16 “Have you entered into the springs of the sea

Or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 “Have the gates of death been revealed to you,

Or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?

18 “Have you understood the expanse of the earth?

Tell Me, if you know all this.

19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?

And darkness, where is its place,

20 That you may take it to its territory

And that you may discern the paths to its home?

21 “You know, for you were born then,

And the number of your days is great!

22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,

Or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,

23 Which I have reserved for the time of distress,

For the day of war and battle?

24 “Where is the way that the light is divided,

Or the east wind scattered on the earth?

25 “Who has cleft a channel for the flood,

Or a way for the thunderbolt,

26 To bring rain on a land without people,

On a desert without a man in it,

27 To satisfy the waste and desolate land

And to make the seeds of grass to sprout?

28 “Has the rain a father?

Or who has begotten the drops of dew?

29 “From whose womb has come the ice?

And the frost of heaven, who has given it birth?

30 “Water becomes hard like stone,

And the surface of the deep is imprisoned.

31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades,

Or loose the cords of Orion?

32 “Can you lead forth a constellation in its season,

And guide the Bear with her satellites?

33 “Do you know the ordinances of the heavens,

Or fix their rule over the earth?

34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,

So that an abundance of water will cover you?

35 “Can you send forth lightnings that they may go

And say to you, ‘Here we are’?

36 “Who has put wisdom in the innermost being

Or given understanding to the mind?

37 “Who can count the clouds by wisdom,

Or tip the water jars of the heavens,

38 When the dust hardens into a mass

And the clods stick together?

39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,

Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,

40 When they crouch in their dens

And lie in wait in their lair?

41 “Who prepares for the raven its nourishment

When its young cry to God

And wander about without food?

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
2 points

Book or Books of Enoch is not scripture. If you are going to use it as a source of truth, you might as well also use the Crayon and the Book of De Vita.

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

I am looking at the books of Enoch as a compliment to scripture. Much is on a shelf. Fyi. I did not even open Enoch till the last few weeks, because I thought like you. God didn't really show me anything out of Enoch yet. Everything I've gotten so far has been Genesis, Job, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and the New Testament.

I don't have Enoch figured out at all yet. But I am seeing some very curious things in Enoch. And I know in the last days things will be made much clearer and they are.

And Jude quotes from Enoch. So Idk, it seems I should at least read it and trust the Holy Spirit to lead me into all truth as promised, and to trust being in the hand of Jesus where no man can pluck me out of, and trust that He promised if I'm a sheep I will hear His voice, and another I will not follow.

These are three scriptures given to me as a new Christian, and they still seem to be at the front of my mind,, as the other promise, the Holy Spirit will bring His Word to remembrance. Which He does all the time.

I think you are under man's traditions, and although you have a heart for God, from what I see, I think you need to get out of this box. There is somewhere between being outside a box and swinging from trees. So if I'm swinging from trees you are boxed in. Come out of your box and you may have more to give me than the packaged traditions of men.

.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

................................................................................

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Enoch walked with God, and God took him.

Noah walked with God so He put him in the Ark!

So it is a walk, we follow Him eating fresh manna everyday, or it turns to maggots.

We follow the cloud by day and the fire by night and that is a walk. The Kingdom is in us, it is in His body. He is the King of Light and we are His light to the world.

So I do not know why you say it is not a walk it's a kingdom.

Isn't it both?

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

And why do you assume a walk is about me?

Paul says I die daily that He may live. (Paraphrased) But you know the scriptures.

1 point

What would Lucifer be angry about? What's his reason for being angry?

Hmmmmm(16) Clarified
2 points

Well.....U clearly didn't read the Bible.... God kicked Lucifer out of Heaven. Duh. Also... God loves humans. Lucifer hates God= he hates humans. End of story.

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Thanks, I hope you have some more great commentary on the Bible

IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

But there are massive logical flaws in that, hence this debate.

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

If God loves humans and Lucifer doesn't, why is it God who does all of the killing in the Bible?

1 point

Don't pay too much attention to ISpittandcuss..he smokes too much weed and has a problem talking right

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

A) Blamed for a bunch of things he didn't do.

B) Hardly hurts anyone in the Bible.

C) Kicked out of Heaven for not thinking humans were so great (you know the people that God wipes out on a regular basis). Did you even read the debate description? Or the Bible?

D) Not being in Heaven and being in Hell. Isn't it your belief that that should make someone angry? Maybe you don't believe that stuff.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So the angel who led the rebellion against God, before there was any evil in existence, is innocent? The one who taught idiots like you to curse their Creator so that they must be destroyed is innocent? He is your leader, leading you into Hell, and and he has done nothing to harm you? Are you that far gone in the dark that you think your leader is better than God?

1 point

This discussion was a big flop until I showed up after more than 100 days

Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

You didn't add anything to the discussion so it is still a big flop.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You followed me here...........in sin which is your leader.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

this was over 100 days old, a total flop with a few dumb comments from Hell bound sinners.....all I did was, a few days ago, said "this one sure was a flop.....and suddenly a bunch of devil-minded monkey men jump in to put on a show.

I guess that makes me the leader here. It will probably die again when I'm done here.......unless you children of the devil want to fight with KHav

1 point

This discussion was a big flop until I showed up after more than 100 days. Who's the leader here?

No! How can you justify a servant's or your personal entertainer's action of feeling proud due to credits you give to him and therefore wanting to take over your whole kingdom. When you provide for him. When brought him into existence and made him whatever he is proud of. Just because you did not create him as the last angel but the number 1 angel. Had he been at the bottom, would over throwing God ever crossed his mind?