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Debate Info

7
28
He Exists - Here's Evidence He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
Debate Score:35
Arguments:18
Total Votes:36
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Argument Ratio

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 He Exists - Here's Evidence (4)
 
 He Doesn't - Here's Evidence (12)

Debate Creator

ds229(29) pic



Evidence for God's Existence

Debate the evidence for God's existence here. Be sure to have evidence in your posts.

He Exists - Here's Evidence

Side Score: 7
VS.

He Doesn't - Here's Evidence

Side Score: 28
4 points

DNA = code

name a code that does not derive from a source of intelligence

code = language / blueprints / music / morse code

more on this issue http://www.stephencmeyer.org/

Side: He Exists - Here's Evidence
Coldfire(1014) Disputed
6 points

DNA = code

DNA being likened to a type of ‘code’ is an analogy, not an actual classification of what DNA is.

name a code that does not derive from a source of intelligence

No.

The game is rigged. If I can’t think of any you will make an argument from ignorance and conclude “therefore God.”

If I do give some examples, you will just say that those things were created by God. If you believe that God created everything, then even physics and mathematics (which consist of various 'codes') were intelligently designed in your eyes.

You're trying to make people play your game when the dice are clearly loaded.

If the only way you can rationalize belief in God is through dishonesty, then I want no part of it.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

name a code that does not derive from a source of intelligence .... "No"

I'll rest my case .... http://www.stephencmeyer.org/ have a good day

Side: He Exists - Here's Evidence
4 points

In practice, however, DNA is not a code. It is not a cypher or substitution, it is not 'sent' to a receiver who 'reads' it. The majority of it functions in an almost mechanical process, aggregated from numerous chemical interactions. It doesn't even serve as a blueprint- more like a series of molds.

As others have noted, refering to it as 'code' is a simplification that helps us understand dna better by relating it to something we are familiar with. We use this kind of simplification all the time, for many different things.

Compare: Cable modem. Most cable modems are not actually modems (shorthand for modulator/demodulator, referring to their function to transmit and receive digital signals across an analogue medium). Cable lines are almost entirely digital at this point, and cable modems function more like network interface cards than modems. They are simply referred to as modems because they perform the same known and recognized function of establishing connectivity to a WAN.

Compare: Atomic bomb. Nuclear weapons are not bombs that produce an explosion via a combustion reaction; they rather initiate by combining two or more sub-critical pieces of radioactive material to achieve self-sustaining and amplifying critical mass, generating a large pressure wave. They were referred to as bombs because they were originally deployed in the same manner as bombs were, and had an overall effect similar to bombs but on a much larger scale.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
3 points

Did you get hacked? You actually posted something reasonable.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
J-Roc77(70) Disputed
2 points

Knowing who you are and your usual routine this is probably a waste of our time...but what the heck.

"Code" could also just be how us as humans recognize patterns. We recognize faces in clouds, rocks, floor tiles, where no facial patterns were intentionally made. We are evolutionary predisposed to see things as patterns or codes to help make sense of what we see. Because we see patterns as a form of recognition it would make sense we create patterns like the ones you listed.

We have to recognize our own biases when looking at things. The origin of these patterns we see in nature need not have a creator out of necessity. To claim so is a jump in logic, it anthropomorphizes nature adding our own subjectivity to the conclusion rather than being more objective about the conclusion.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PATTERNS AND CODES

PATTERNS occur naturally .. no help required from a 'designer' . . . Many patterns occur in nature without the help of a designer .. snowflakes .. tornadoes .. hurricanes .. sand dunes .. stalactites .. rivers and ocean waves . . . These patterns are the natural result of what scientists categorize as chaos and fractals .. These things are well-understood and we experience them every day

CODES .. however .. do not occur without a designer . . . Examples of symbolic codes include music .. blueprints .. languages like English and Chinese .. computer programs .. and yes .. DNA

The essential distinction is the difference between a pattern and a code .. Chaos can produce patterns .. but chaos has never been shown to produce codes or symbols . . . Codes and symbols store information .. which is not a property of matter and energy alone .. Information itself is a separate entity.

Side: He Exists - Here's Evidence
Stickers(1037) Disputed
2 points

DNA = code

name a code that does not derive from a source of intelligence

code = language / blueprints / music / morse code

See Hume's Fork. We've simply rediscovered a system for determining genetic information, and conceptualized the idea of a god (that is certainly capable of executing codes), however, the relationship between two concepts or ideas has no impact on the contingent.

Even so, this isn't evidence for the existence of god. It's evidence that DNA was engineered by a sentient being. Of course, if you'd like to call any sentient being that created life "god", then I suppose that it works.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
Helix(78) Disputed
2 points

DNA is not a code. Word "code" was used just to give it a name. Same as Black hole is not a hole... you are catching on words...

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
Warjin(1577) Clarified
1 point

I cant disprove god, believe me I tried but at the same time I can't prove a god, what I can disprove is mans interpretation of god meaning any god from any book written by man.

I will say for sure no one can explain why exsistance happen nore the so called nothing that sprung something.

Side: He Exists - Here's Evidence
1 point

CODE IS DEFINED

as communication between an encoder ( a writer or speaker ) and a decoder ( a reader or listener ) using agreed upon symbols . . . DNA's definition as a LITERAL CODE ( and not a figurative one ) is nearly universal in the entire body of biological literature since the 1960's . . . DNA code has much in common with human language and computer languages . . . DNA transcription is an encoding / decoding mechanism isomorphic with Claude Shannon's 1948 model: .. The sequence of base pairs is encoded into messenger RNA which is decoded into proteins .. Genetic information passes from DNA to an RNA copy and then is READ in the cell by the the ribosome which makes a protein molecule based on the genetic information encoded in DNA . . . This is the central tenet of molecular biology . . . Information theory terms and ideas applied to DNA are not metaphorical .. but in fact quite literal in every way . . . In other words .. the information theory argument for design is not based on analogy at all .. it is direct application of mathematics to DNA .. which by definition is a code .... http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/read-prove-god-exists/ ... have a good day

Side: He Exists - Here's Evidence
Stickers(1037) Disputed
1 point

Good morning.

The cell does not "read" the genetic codes (assuming that they were made by a sentient being for the observation of another sentient being) in the sense that you and I "read" our comments, that is misleading. Rather, it "reads" it in the same way that your keyboard "reads" the keys that you type and "makes" them appear in a new form (on the screen). It is not "listening" or "decoding" the actual meaning of the words, sentences, and paragraphs.

As you've already mentioned earlier; DNA is a physical thing. The ways in which man attempts to label each material component of are codes. However, whether or not the substance is created as a code sent to humanity by god is another question entirely. Surely man's intricate concept of labeling this very special molecule is reminiscent of another man's concept of an elaborate and meticulous creation of life, however, the relationships between these ideas must also only exist in the abstract, and thus the connections of these ideas doesn't affect the functions of the physical world.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
3 points

We have equal amount of evidence for gods, smurfs, unicorns... .

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
1 point

Evidance
Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence

Rational logic. Evidence: rational logic

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence

Not one single shred of actual evidence he exists. Couple that with many scientific theories explaining how life on earth and the beginning of the universe occured without the need for a supernatural agent.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence
1 point

Existance of god is only proven by one man who speaks thru 12 people who may or may not have been high during the writings of it. With no proven tales the greatest mystery can't be solved but dont tell the middle east since they kill each other over it.

Side: He Doesn't - Here's Evidence