does evolution have a problem with the beginning?

Evolution deals with heritable mutations in replicating organisms - so evolution doesn't exist before the first replicating organisms.

The development of those replicating organisms from inorganic compounds is abiogenesis.

I've already posted several items related to abiogenesis to this debate - let me know if you need more information.

There really is no wa to reason with the biology story. The math is against you and your faith is unfounded. What you call is proven is no more then an uproven hypothesis. So you use basic biology principles but beyond that is a story. And an illogical one!

All creation tells of Him.

Theory on Hell I found interesting.

He is going to cast them into all into the lake of fire. The blood shed on the earth has grieved Him to its completion.

Hell is in the center of the earth. He is going to cast Hell and Hades into the lake of fire.

Its interesting Jesus talks about a cavern and hell in the center of the earth. And then talked about throwing into something bigger called the lake of fire. An intense heat beyond the heat of fire.

How do you think Jesus knew about the heat in the center of the earth? And to throw the center into the lake you have to through the whole of it. And to look at the sun you wouldnt call it a lake of fire. Yet in modern day there is solar rain coming out of the sun. Where there is rain there is a lake, rain of fire and lake of fire.

https://youtu.be/ydOOCJAigPc

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The Bible has more proven facts, and a wide diversity of proven facts. Sad how stupid your so called education has made you.

Science hasn't even caught up to the Bible yet.

There is soooo many!

Like, I can prove Him through Bible code against all odds, even showing advanced math in specific places hidden in leters of chater 1 verse 1 of Genesis and John, in two different languages. And in each discussing "In the Beginning"

Which is weird because that phrase is about 1/3 of each verse, and also written in 2 different languages, 1 in Hebrew OT and the other in Greek NT.

They each have advanced math pi and e. And each placed where spiritually applicable in context to the start of both Testaments. Applicable to the beginning to end both defining of the purpose of each book. So that is like impossible odds, yet there it is right in front of our eyes! No dreaming up theories. Its plain as day!

Prophesy fulfilments as prewritten History to degrees of naming people generations ahead of time, also Archaeological finds, science descriptions in the Bible regarding things impossible to know like The Lake of Fire. And its Continuity. And the wisdom, applies beyond experiences and knowledge. No contradictions. Regardless of your steered thoughts there are none. If there are they can be visibly seen as slight transcribing. We believe God. He spoke His word every bit will complete!

The Bible is a dictation which He watched over.

The only people those things bother are unbelievers, and its meant to trip you if you have an evil unbelieving heart.

The Bible says He and His word are a stumbling block to those wise in their own eyes, but really are fools!

Plenty more evidence on our side no matter how much virus soup or bacteria soup you make. You take whats already created, and put ingredients together, and call water soup a hearty meal. You sre blind and confused an unintelligent, get a refund on that education it wasnt worth a dime!

More Bible confirmed daily. There isnt any room for doubt when the facts are indisputable..

ok, so create a cell, clown. God mocks atheist because they are funny, a tragic comedy. .

Funny you cant tell me a logical story of in the beginning.

I guess biology soup only knows everything needed happened to fall right into the pot and was cooked in a precise way, and then there was complete animals including man.

Either answer or admit there isnt a logical answer in biology.

Im not looking for could have. Im looking for someething sure.

Evolution seems sure. Yet they cant explain the basic beginning, the foundation.

Please be clear. Is evolution faith or fact. A logical and biologocally possible beginning will tell us that.

I dont need an argument against God. I need a firm reason to think evolution has a valid logical possible beginning.

Please enrich us with profound beginning of the all powerful intelligent process of evolution. The foundation of life and the process from the beginning.

dumb .

Im not looking for could have. Im looking for someething sure.

Evolution seems sure. Yet they cant explain the basic beginning, the foundation.

Please be clear. Is evolution faith or fact. A logical and biologocally possible beginning will tell us that.

Have you heard of dumbism? Living things could come out of non-living matter? really? has anybody ever seen that happen?

Science only observes nature. Science combined with logic does point to the Creator because it makes no sense to believe living things emerge out of non-living matter, and it makes no sense to believe that intelligence/consciousness rises from mindless matter.

There is evidence that you believe in evolution. The evidence is your own words saying you believe in evolution. It is completely illogical to believe life came from non-living matter, or that intelligence/consciousness arose out of mindless matter.

Science does not explain how things are made, it may explain how things change form. It never observes non-living things come to life, it only observes living things coming from living things. How things are made cannot be explained except God made them. There was nothing, but God was there, and God made everything and science cannot make anything. If you can take a hand full of nothing and make something from nothing, then you can prove your beliefs.....and if you appear to have made something from nothing, you have to prove that the thing you made did not come from somewhere else.

Bad news Bob, you can't be God. Too bad, you lose. God mocks atheists.

For crying out loud, I don't need to look at what believers in evolution claim is their "evidence". I've seen that nonsense all my life. It was shoved in my face as far back as I can remember in every form of media including public schools. I tried to believe it, I actually did believe it for a while, then I realized the implications: living and dying have no real meaning, there is no objective value to life, might makes right as only the strong survive, and there would be no reason to not kill myself if at any time I felt I had enough of this world. Evolution is evil, it is promoted with an evil agenda, conditioning peoples minds to accept brutality. Evolution is the religion of brutes which use it as an idol pretending it excuses their immoralities.

Life did not evolve as told by evolution. If it did then the beginning could be reproduced to show it, and it cant!

God did not leave creation to evolve either. Evolving just a dumb concept. Living creatures reproduce after their kind. They do not reproduce after other kinds.

So the answer is in Genesis "after their kind"

Fallen angels introduced currupted seed by sex with beasts and then when they saw daughters of men, they took them for wives. And the women bore children, that became unnatural cannibals who were giants.

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I thought it was possible that God used time and Evolution.

But in reading the Word, things always pop out at me and they usually end uo being key connections that open the verse up some, and expound on it. Moments of understanding that are revelation and insight. God reveals.

He had me spend a lot of time in the beginnibg of Genesis this year. And Im still seeing things I didnt see yet.

One just occurred to me that removes evolution from a possibility is the defining of evolution as 10,000 mutations, as Cartman had asked. Thats not adaptation thats evolving through species. We are made in Gods image.

It was immediate creation in Gods image. We fell into this dimension where flesh and dust are under the serpents domain. The picture in Genesis of the fall is vertical. (Just mentionig, there is some insight in that)

Also "after their kind" Gods word is very specific to say this. And there is a reason God put into the text this specific categorization of species.

Then the Bible immediately begins to explain mutations of currupted seed. So intermingling seed with seed caused destructive currupted seed. (Study giants in the land.)

Although I dont rely on the book of Enoch, except through what is in the Bible, so independently I dont put on the books of Enoch with the same weight as books that made it into the Bible, I think it was found and given attention now by Divine purpose. And shows a lot and interpreting information, and a lot that was hidden till now. The books of Enoch are amazingly descriptive of cosmos, creation, the fall, life before the flood, and the coming of Jesus and the very last days.

Its age? It reads like Job in vocabulary and style. Job is technically the oldest book in the Bible, and Genesis and the other first four books were likely completely penned by Moses.

Through out the beginning, even down through to David, the currupted seed was discussed in the Bible. These details have been glazed over previously, but now for some reason it seems important to understand for these end of days.

Then you enter into the New Testament and see two images one of beasts, and one of God, you see it in Old Testament also like in Nebakinezzer.

Anyway food for thought and worth the study. If you understand the currupted seed, it brings connections throughout of greater understanding as a whole.

And then the epistles go into descriptions of the different types of flesh of fish of birds of beasts of man etc... and the distinction between fruit, flesh, and spirit, and also the transforming of our physical bodies in the end. These are all code breaking and designed to be hidden and found by those who seek of God with all their hearts, as He ushers in the end of evil and begins the 1000 year reign.

I recommend this video, its two parts and its long but its worth every minute.

https://youtu.be/5ZsZLDWWZMs

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dumb .

dumb .

organic matter is not a living organism.

the complexity of a living cell goes astronomically beyond any ordering caused by thermodynamics in any open or closed system.

What is so "far more complex" about God? He is holy (separate from, independent from all things) and He created all things living and non-living. What's so complex about that? It's you who believes in all kind of nonsense which requires never ending complexities of explanations, never ending changing of conclusions to accommodate variance in data which contradicts your beliefs.......it takes a lot of belief in things you don't know to believe whatever it is you believe in your Hell bent way.

See

hydrothermal vents

asteroids

space ice dust

freeze-thaw cycles

just freezing

etc.

Still trying understand how life is created by the nonsense you spew !

Who said the dust is living? Are you smoking dope again?

it is a history book! It's obviously a history book! It's Ancient history written in a book!

It's the most long term following of one group of people through ancient history all in one book.

You can even see the growth of culture as it progresses through time. It is an eye into people of that day. You can just imagine them living in tents early on like Noah, Abraham, and Jacob.

To houses and the Palace of King Solomon.

Here is physical evidence, please take the time to watch it, it's on Netflix. If you don't then you can't say it doesn't exist.

http://patternsofevidence.com/

The Exact Time of His Death Predicted

MESSIANICPROPHECY00000001.gif

The Exact Day of the Messiah's Death Foretold

Bible Verses about Messianic Prophecy

Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off...

Luke 23:33-34 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."

Luke 23:44-46 Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit.'" Having said this, He breathed His last.

Key Points:

- The prophet Daniel predicted the exact day of the Messiah's death.

- According to Daniel chapter 9 there would be 69 (62+7) weeks or sabbatical years (7 year periods) after the proclamation of Artaxerxes Longimanus (ruler of Persia) for the Jews to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and on Passover the Messiah would be "cut off."

- According to history Artaxerxes Longimanus ascended to the throne of the Medo-Persian empire sometime around July of 465 B.C. and uttered the decree on Passover for the Jews to return home to Jerusalem to rebuild their city.

- 69 weeks of years = 476 years or 173,880 days

Fulfilled Prophecy as Evidence for the Bible's Divine Origin: An Outline

2,000 prophecies, including some 300 prophecies and implications about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus

(book by J. Barton Payne, Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy).

There are no prophetic failures.

While there are both obvious and subtle prophecies, most are very detailed and specific.

http://bibleevidences.com/accuracy-of-prophecy/

Have any of you made it thorough an honest investigation with all the evidence?

Why would one avenue of study, such as science and evolution be proof, and exclusive source of selections for evidenece?

If investigating a crime, do you only accept DNA?

Sciences still leave questions. How then is it objective true investigation if leaving out of objective consideration of copious amounts of other evidence?

There are patterns of evidence in Archaeology, and Ancient History that need to be considered as evidence also. Included for a comple investigation, also prophetic fulfillments are evidence. Judge the evidence yourself, I posted below. Faith should be reasonable, and “ Beyond a Reasonable Doubt!”

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Resources to investigate:

Bible Prophesies Fullfilled

Bible prophecies fulfilled by other nations

More on Bible Prophesies fulfilled

Accuracy of Prophecy - Evidences of the Bible

Secular Sources of Confirmation the Time Period

Is There Any Evidence for Jesus Outside the Bible? | Cold Case Christianity

Below is a well done, very informative documentary that I recommend. Shows physical evidence of history please take the time to watch it, it's on Netflix. If you don't then you can't say it doesn't exist.

Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus

http://patternsofevidence.com/

Video Cold Case Investigation with J Warner Wallace . By an Investigator and Former Atheist

https://youtu.be/3Z0EkWRF7t8

http://bibleevidences.com/accuracy-of-prophecy/

What is there for the atheist

https://youtu.be/cdDi_lyo8uc

http://www.100prophecies.org/page11.htm

http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside- the-bible/

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/ meridian/2010/luther.html

What is There for the Atheist?

Scripture references:

Matt 16

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Matt 13

45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, 46 and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.

Taking a simple approach through records of Biblical genealogies

Genealogy to Moses - Exodus 1,365 BC when calculating years to Moses

1,365 for the Exodus which is in line with archeology finds shown in the documentary film "Patterns of Evidence"

Taking each age recorded for each patriarch's age fathering sons of Joseph, then adding 400 years noted in Bible that Israel was in Egypt, which is approx date of Exodus.

Joseph at about 37 when sons were born. They were born as Bible states 1 year before famine, Jacob and sons came to Egypt within a short time after the famine, sons were born. Joseph was 30 when preparing for the famine. Preparation was 7 years, of building up storage. So they were born in or by the 6th year of preperation.

Scripture then says Israel was in Egypt for 400 years prior to the Exodus.

Equalling 2,635 years from Adam at 0 years old. Years in Eden may or may not be included in Adam's age. I am beginning calculations where the Bible begins years calculations.

I started at 4000 years.

Adam had Seth at 130 years old

So from Adam at 0, then to 1st son counted in genealogies, which is Seth born to Adam at 130 years old. Each age is noted to Isaac born to Abraham at 100 years. Jacob and Joseph are estimates based on context of births.

Bringing Joseph had sons 2235 from Adam at 0 years. And famine bringing Jacob and brothers to Egypt was at the same time frame.

When each age of patriarchs to father sons in the patriarch genealogy we are at 2235 years from Adam at 0. We then add 400 years, since Bible clearly states that Israel was in Egypt. Final estimate of Exodus is 2635 from Adam at age 0.

With this simple approach, the Exodus occurred approximately 1365 BC.

http://patternsofevidence.com/

Rameses was not likely the Pharoah of Exodus.

There was a city referred to as Rameses spoken of in the story of Joseph.

People assumed Rameses was the Pharoah this was a jump to connect a name to a name in the Bible, but the Pharoah of the Exodus is not mentioned by name.

Pharoah named Rameses was possibly named after a beautiful place, like naming a child Paris or Austin.

There are many ways to arrive at what you define as truth? And what you believe, or know, or assume, or think and what is a credible source of a sound position. And its important to understand to what degree your position is credible and reasonable.

What is the objective approach you used to conclude truth, or what is probable, or possible? Or what is just steering through popularity in social attitudes, and to be tested as reasonable or unreasonable selective conclusions for positions held and degree of truth held?

So this debate is focused on how you define your "truth" and show your work, and prove it is a credible truth that has been arrived through reasonable conclusions through fair evaluations, weighing relative arguments objectively, and not just based on a bias or assumption.

So the question is, What are the foundation of facts you used to weigh and determine your views and opinions?

What validation process did you apply to all sides of issues or beliefs?

What criteria did you apply to weigh and apply to conclude your beliefs, or views, or opinions?

Are you foundation of facts persuasively established through an honest comparison?

Are the foundations of facts used reasonable for taking a stand or strong position for what is fair, or right, or is truth in a matter?

Did you arrive at your conclusion without an independent fair objective investigation?

. In general, many people accept what is told to them at face value if the opinions appeal to their mentality or world view, and similar in nature to the other opinions they already hold.

. For Example: - Many people dig their heels in arguements in favor

of Atheism, while hiding behind findings exclusive only to Evolution.

By so doing they refuse to objectively challenge their positions through an honest evaluation of other persuasive evidence and findings. An opinion lacks credible logic and reasoning, if any argument used outside of their defensive comfortable argument or field of study.

A person who is selective only of points that agree with their view is just a noisy whoops whirly bird you shake on New Years Eve. It's meaningless noise!

There isn't any credibility in views left unchallenged! Unchallenged points of debate are futile arguments. Argument that rejects challenge outside their defensive comfort level, are unstable, and have no credible merit!

If your view refuses to address findings from other sources, with potential of evidence proving to have equal merit for persuasion, then your view simply put is just a small opinion of an uneducated idiot!

No matter how smart you think you sound, it's just an admission of how not smart you actually are! As seen often in debates in support or denial of Divine Intrusion.

Those who remain unchallenged in their views because they will only debate through one direction refuse true investigation of evidence worth equal consideration, in the case of these arguments that the possibility of God exist is credible. And reasonable evidence of Divine Intrusion outside of their comfort level arguments in evolution do exist.

And by ignoring it exists it shows a lack of credibility in their entire argument. How can you take a stand without honest evaluation of all evidence? Is there integrity in an argument if evidence remains ignored without them honestly evaluating it?

Since evolution is not fully conclusive in every way, then evolution is not a Deductive Argument.

It may be a convincing Ampliative Argument, but it is not a Deductive Guarentee, or even a Deductive Assurance.

Evolution in itself is an Inconclusive Argument because it is still only an opinion without Absolute certainty Affirmatively Proven beyond any doubt reasonable or unreasonable, in the rules of Absolute Facts, so it remains Debatable. And is unable to conclusively confirm or deny if God Exists or if God Doesn't Exist!

Opinions in debate should pass a test of credibility. Showing the opinion was derived through an objective challenge, and through a thorough investigation, and with an honest approach applying equal weights of measure for points and debating possibility and probability with at minimum an objective review of supports or points that are used in persuasion.

It's evident in every issue debated, it's a human nature character flaw to think winning in opinion by a refusal to weigh the opposing opinions is even a debate in the 1st place!

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Judas in Prophesy - Zech. 11: 12-13 "I said to them, “If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!” So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. Then the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them.”

So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the

potter in the house of the Lord."

This is extremely specific. All thirty pieces of silver are not to be returned. They are to be cast down in the house of the Lord, and they are to go to the potter.

You will recall that Judas in remorse tried to return the thirty pieces of silver, cut the chief priest would not accept them. So Judas threw them down on the floor of the temple and went and hanged himself. The chief priest then took the money and bought a field of the potter to bury strangers in.

Questions is: One man in how many, after receiving a bribe for the betrayal of a friend, had returned the money back to his friends enemies? Then had it refused so in order to return it, it had to be thrown on the floor "in the house of the Lord," and then had those whom he betrayed his friend to then used the returnef money to purchase a field from the potter for burial ground?

Points of evidence -

Hebrews 11: 1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old gained approval. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Here are some points of Christian reasoning to consider. Many atheist think faith is illogical. But it actually has many good reasons to consider faith is logical and has true intelligent evidence. And this is just skimming some of the reasonable thoughts to believe.

Evidence when viewed goes "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt!" Even secular sources like Thallus (52AD)

Thallus is perhaps the earliest secular writer to mention Jesus, his ancient his writings don’t even exist anymore, but Julius Africanus, writing around 221AD, does quote Thallus who previously tried to explain away the darkness occurring at Jesus’ crucifixion:

“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down.

This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

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Here is just some evidence that supports an affirmative verdict "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" regarding biblical facts, including the Resurection:

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1 - The Prophetic Words, and the Biblical Directions of Prophesy, and the Plan, the ultimate bottom line action and goals of Biblical content and Prophesy.

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2 - Because Biblical History is credible it is a source in support of evidence.

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3 - Because Biblical Prophesy is credible in its fulfillments it is an even greater source in support of evidence, especially since prophesy is layered, with many separate prophesies having to also come true for one to come true! - Even greater than knitting cells together in evolution!

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4 - Because eye witness testimony, even outside of the Bible, other documents, Greek and Roman secular offer details confirming the dynamics of Christianity and Persecutions and Martyrdom.

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5 - The accounts are not contradictions, (as though any were lying) the various times and places of writings actually are a confirmation of reliability, people who lie have fuzzy memories in a week, even with practice and easy communications of our day, lies unravel because even the untrained eye can pick out lies, but that's not the case with the four gospels, they confirm accidentally each other's facts, that show true eyewitness independent works, with different perspectives of the same exact event, as you know since you "read the book" the private investigated discusses this.

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6 - The degree of insistence on the testimonies of Christians, and it's growth beyond their group, location, and generation. In comparison Muslims were militant from the start, attracting like violent individuals. It would not have the same magnet effect as peaceful Christians fed to lions. One would excell in dominance, like cell selection, the other would be eliminated as passive cells are dominated.

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7 - The Prophetic Words spoken of concerning the rejection by its "mother religion" and the Prophetic Words stating as Messiah would be rejected, All Nations would hear an exclusive religion, rejected by its originator and accepted world wide!

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8 - 300 prophesies fulfilled in just the one person Jesus

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9 - Martyrdom, the ferverency and

dedication, they most all went courageously against horrible opposition, and most ultimately died for it. And not in a group drinking poison like Jim Jones, Christians often died or were imprisoned alone and often died gruesome deaths.

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10 - Paul a Jew of Jews, happily killing Christians saw what must have been a hologram! Jesus the Risen Lord knocked him off a horse and blinded him, then sent him to talk to his disciples.

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11 - With the persecution and resistance met by Christianity, I would think there would be plenty of documentations and writings stating these rebels are liars and all the miracles are lies.

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12 - Secular sources independent of and even hostile to Christian faith have other historic texts that make the New Testament all the more reliable and credible as it is confirmed also through non-religious sources.

In support of this evidence - Ancient documentation by Thallus in 52 AD stating it, and also astronomers confirmed there would not have been an eclipse that day. So it is a "supernatural event" or a perfectly timed coincidence.

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Notes for Point # 10

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Picture this. Saul/Paul had just led a crowd in Stephen's stoning, Saul was unmoved by it, it was something he was gladly a part of. All the Christians knew of Saul, and he scared of them, they feared for their lives.

Jesus knocks Saul off of a horse, and disarms him by making him temporarily blind. Probably so the Christians wouldn't fear him when he pulled up on his horse. Jesus made him disabled in killing them, so he couldn't harm them.

Jesus sends Saul to get disciples that just saw him murder their friend and brother, Stephen!

Saul was a murderer, and is sitting there in a Christians home waiting for help, for Christian hospitality, kindness, and salvation! For healing, and to be filled with the Holy Spirit! This is crazy evidence! What changed for Saul? Do you think a conversation convinced him?

Paul then goes on to lead the way like a driven work horse to bring the Gospel of Jesus the Risen Christ to the Gentiles.

Saul Jew of Jews - takes on a new name, born again, and brought the gospel out to the Gentiles.

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Notes for Point # 11 Example of a supernatural "coincidence" regarding Jesus. Is noted the darkness and earthquake during the crucifixtion, noted by

The greater challenge of the New Testament would be there are no writings saying the claims of miracles to be fraudulent.

With the persecution and resistance met by Christianity, I would think there would be plenty of documentations and writings stating these rebels are liars and all the miracles are lies.

This would be an even greater expectation, since we have plenty of writings in the affirmative of these supernatural dynamics. Christians had little I'd any power to control anything from the onset of the faith throughout the dark ages.

After all, the are documented by 4 Gospel writers, and in acts and letters.

Catholocism and Constantine, even though he converted he went on to established Catholocism which martyred Christians in the millions who resisted Catholicism. Catholocism was involved in centuries up to almost modern day has waged war against real Bible translation and the common man having it to have a direct contact to God, rather than require poe and priests. The burned their Bibles and writings, and martyred true believers as heretics.

Catholocism wanted to control the populous so only the the Catholic Church had the written Word, hence the "Dark Ages." The one sect remained true to the faith, and the Word was a black market item punishable by prison or death.

I consider these points as even more proof.

No writings found rebutting claims of miracles is also evidence in favor of the Resurection. There are No rebuttals of claims of Jesus' miracles, or of the early Christian miracles.

Which should be more so, in excessive amounts and from all sides of the opposition, from Jews, Romans, and Greeks!

They had even more reason to write against claims, then the Christians who already had much documentation of the miracles and Words of Jesus in all the writings we did and do already have as Christians.

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Notes for Point # 12

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The Gospels have been historically confirmed the same way anything historical has been confirmed.

Even more so, secular sources independent of, and even in hostility to Christian faith have ancient historic texts that confirm details in the Gospels, and the New Testament and affirm them all the more reliable and credible, as it is confirmed through varieties of religious and non-religious sources. And through use of a little common sense.

Such as the the strange darkness from the 6th hour to the 9th hour. And then added documentation with scientifical explanation to be not an eclipse, so what manner of coincidence is it?

Summary, there are reasonable and logical conclusions for believing as found in the historical account of the crucifixion, as noted even the Roman Soldiers concluded this, "Surely He was the Son of God."

I conclude by theses points of evidence, Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, that of course the Resurection occurred. It is a God thing to do according to prophesies clear and detailed as found in His Word the Bible, according to His will and purpose and scheduled at His appointed time!

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The Bible has always been both a physical record and a spiritual record. There are aprox 2000 prophesies that have been fulfilled, and aprox 500 prophesies left to be fulfilled, likely some are in process.

For over 6000 years God's Word layers upon layers of prophesies springboards in play stacked one on another.

Yet the genius of God is unreachable, His depths unknown. In the Bible we have a history book made to be an example giving us a wealth of knowledge, wisdom, advise, guidance, understanding, and He directed civilization through it.

Generations go by all ultimately in orbit around God and His Word!

We either love, hate, or ignore Him, but whether we know it or not, it is in the middle and we all are answering to it. If I asked any of you which of these you are, you all would have an answer. You all have a pat pet answer that you have said so often, you don't even realize it.

Matthew 24:14

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Bible stands in the middle as we go around it, and everyone of us, not one of us hasn't, we all answered.

In every century it was the focus of men. Satan had a short time so he raised up an antichrist who stands between God and man and speakd as if he were God. For over millenniums they martyred the faithful, waged assault on the Word intent to currupt the faith.

Think about it, how did a pope rise to rule the world? Isn't it interesting, all these things are foretold.

You can see Satan’s movements and his demons throughout time, they appear in every era with enslavement and hate growing out of control.

You can see Satan chase after and target Gods people. God's Word and God's people faced brutal hate, and deviations of evil against God's people literally every era from oppressions of the Jews in Egypt, captives in Babylon, under the thumb of Roman rule, to early church martyrdom, the Inquisitions, to Hitler, to Jews and Christians.

This has always been the case, every generation God's Word and His people was standing in the middle. Everyone in every generation answering to Him, many are even on public record. Isn't that wild for such an insignificant book and a non-existent God.

You could even ask Egypt and Babylon, hey you where is God, and even though they have their own gods, they all step back for a split fraction of a second they know who God really is, all aware of Israel's God. And they all answered to it Him.

When we go to trial, we include every source of evidence all prespective, not just from sources that support a pre determined conclusion. Investigation and trial without an independent fair objective investigation is a mistrial.

The determination is beyond a reasonable doubt.

After all the evidence is looked at, we all make a jury decision.

And it is applied to what we conclude.

After all the evidence is given an objective review, do we find God Exists beyond a reasonable doubt, or that He doesn't exist beyond a reasonable doubt.

If evidence is excluded from objective reviw, you don't have a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt, all you have is a mistrial!

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Stick your straw acussations up your nose!

You must live in candy land and chutes and ladders!

Atheist are illogical, because they shut their minds down, and choose not to answer the details out side their box.

It's illogical to dismiss other questions by one theory.

Their whole argument of why there isn't a God is Gods existence isnt based on one subject. Evolution is a moving piece, but what other moving pieces are there?

Evolution doesn't disprove God. And there is stacks of proof He does exist. At that point there are two conclusion I can see, either you are not intelligent enough to even be aware of anything outside your little box, or you want to be unaware.

But then let’s be honest, and give credit where credit is due. Instead of telling people with bigger minds than the atheist, people of Christianity they are illogical, simply just admit you are content in your little box, and atheisrs really have nothing to add especially with any matter of fact authority to discussions about God’s existence, because none climb outside of their boxes.

So they either can't understand, or you won't understand, but there are not enough diagnostics to conclude anything with just evolution! So, it has nothing to do with the intelligence and ability of others who actually aren't stuck in your little place of thinking. Those thinkers are actually the logical among us, not the unthinking atheist!

But they give no reasoning to the others who are using more than two matches without something to strike for a flame!

It's like saying "we understand gravity, so we won't make a plane that can fly above gravity, or a rocket to break through gravity"

Atheist aren't illogical based on their theory of evolution, their illogical because they are narrow minded and hyper-focused on one direction, without answering logically anything else in the many other directions.

Atheism is as illogical as a child believing in Santa, they find their toys arrive under the tree, and the find evidence that mom wrapped them, so in their little minds this one thing is all there is to know about Christmas.

But there is a lot more important to know about Christmas than this little part, Santa. Like the economic impact locally and nationally, or the good and bad of impacts of holidays from Christmas to Mothers Day, there is so many different aspects to understand about Christmas than whether Santa where's a red suit and has a reindeer named Rudolph!

There is incredible depth to know about, like foods, and families, and cultures, knowledge that can spider out to be all kinds of directions.

But atheists are more like a 7 year old boy who just figured out that mom and dad are Santa. The imature mind of the child thinks everything is figured out because they have enough evidence to think mom and dad are Santa, so then there is nothing else to know.

Yet Santa is the smallest thing to know, but to the smarty pants 7 year old, it's the only thing to know. Atheism is just like this logic. Now it's fine for the little child to care only about one aspect. But when sitting at the adult table discussing the financial economics, or the psychology or family or good will social impact, the child taking the whole table and making his theory about Santa the biggest conversation, is just simply juvenile!

So if you didn't notice, I don't think evolution is a logical our exclusive source for if God does or doesn't exist.

There is so much more outside of your little box of Chunky Legos, and that is why you are illogical. Because a reasoning mind can reason with a broad look of information and perceive a bigger logical picture, and the illogical can't find their way out of a cardboard box!

.

Evolution is neither a weight For or Against God's existence.

And the only thing many atheists are logical enough or mature enough to discuss, is if mom wrapped the presents! They are children at the adult table.

Maybe they can sit at the adult table next year, if and when they grow up a little! And have an ability to apply logic broadly, instead of itty bitty and teany weany bits characteristic of an unreasoning and illogical mind!

Pascal Wagner Argument - Says it is in one's own best interest to behave as if God exists. Since the possibility of eternal punishment of hell outweighs any advantage of believing otherwise.

I know this is actually a dumb ass argument. Sorry Saintnow, your arguments are closer to this type of argument. And I don't think anyone should decide for faith or God based on this argument.

Jesus didn't. Jesus taught factually, and the Father revealed Spiritually.

They both gave witness, and at the Testamony of 2 or 3 witnesses all things will be confirmed. Well we actually have a cloud of witnesses.

But the concept given by God is beyond reasonable doubt, as in a court of law.

He never asked for blind faith. It's nice if the simplest can easily follow faith blindly. They also have witness of testimony and great is the simpleton. The least, the child is the greatest. But God also established a degree of proof.

He says in the law, if a prophet speaks and it doesn't come true it's false. If there isn't a confirmation of truthful testimony then it's false.

So God is saying weigh as if in a court of law, establishing truth as factual. So then why would we expect anyone to believe through method of blind faith. The Bible says we are to handle the Word with a convincing degree of ability. As an approved workman handling the truth.

God established in the law at the beginning that our faith is based on proof. Proof of History, of Prophesy, and of Testimony!

My point is one has to be convinced to consider believing anything.

So then, the question is if we can establish a baseline of truth, and the truth happens to be that there may possibly be a God, what would you do with that? Ignore it? Or enter it into the room reserved for evidence?

^^^^

The Dead Sea Scrolls enhance our knowledge of both Judaism and Christianity. They represent a non-rabbinic form of Judaism and provide a wealth of comparative material for New Testament scholars, including many important parallels to the Jesus movement.

They show Christianity to be rooted in Judaism and have been called the evolutionary link between the two.

Christianity is Judaism, with Prophetic fulfilment the difference.

Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets

Prophesies state faith 1st given to Jews will spread out to every nation.

Galatians 2

. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

.Romans 1

. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Revelation 12

. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

.

Ephesians 1

. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

.

Philippians 1

. 27 Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

.

Colossians 1

. 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. For the prophesy below to have come true, God would have had to have fulfilled three prophesies to match history!

To line up with historic accuracy, There would have to be other prophesies fulfilled on which the prophesy below is dependent on. Prophesies are often fulfilled in layers, stacked one on top of another. Inter-dependent on each individual fulfillment, in a sequential order, and falling in their place like dominoes.

Three prohesies had to be accurate and fulfilled in order of sequence for all the other related prophesies to be fulfilled. Not just one! In this example all three related prophesies were fulfilled as they were foretold and written.

Bible Prophesy

Zech 12:2-3 and Zech 14:2-3

. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of TREMBLING unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it…

. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.”

.

1 - The Hebraic religion historically shows a timeline of interactions with God. Judaism is a culture a people of faith detailing prophetic words inclusive of themselves, other nations, in past, present, and in the future.

Details written include their own discipline and judgements. Charged keeping and transcribing every jot and tittle in precision and accuracy.

The Jewish culture enforced strict adherance to scripture, and required the people least to the greatest to memorize it all. Even for the common people it was mandatory.

2 - Jewish scripture upheld by Jewish people have written prophesies that declare a ripping of their faith from themselves. In their own prophetic scriptures, declaring that they themselves will miss the time of the Messiah, and be judged for it.

With others prophesies promising to scatter them among other Nations as if being chased like driven leaves, blown away by strong winds. With other prophesies promising to gather them again and return them to their own land.

ALL these came true. And after WW2 there they were a Nation moved by God like He was a gardener planting flowers.

Then fulfilled prophesied we see in front of our own eyes! Israel surrounded by her enemies as foretold, and they are a cup of trembling, and a burden that brings terror to tear up the Nations that support her.

As it is written, Israel has becomes a Burdensome Stone to those who lift her. Yet Israel will hold her place. Prophesy is History pre-written, clear history is not interpretations of history. Hindsight of course is 20/20.

3 - Prophesies of Abraham and Sarah were not just a promise of decendents by blood, but to father nations. Rejection of Jesus as foretold, which they did, is how the Spirit fulfilled these prophesies.

We see prophetic fulfillments as the Old and New Testaments have been translated into every tongue. Christians serve the Jewish Messiah in every nation and in every tongue, just like prophets foretold, and just like Jesus foretold.

He wasn't just slipping up and accidentally foretelling these things to us. Prophesies like these are repetative throughout the scripture, He intended them to be noticed.

It is as much a miracle that the Jews missed Him in the fulfillment of all the Prophesies of Messiah's coming, than Peter walking on water!

1 - to scatter them to all the Nations, and

2 - then bring the Jews back from all the nations He had scattered them to, other related detailed prophesied.

3 - Fulfilment brought them back after WW2. .. ... Thousands of years after these prophesies!

Coincidence? Or is this inaccurate?

Was Terrorism a Biblical Prophesy?

Was the Middle East Crisis a Biblical Prophesy?

How is it that over thousands of years of this culture of people, who historically have been reasonable in comparison to other nations.

The Jews didn't bring much on themselves historically.

Why then, and how are they a matter that brings TREMBLING (or TERROR!!) to the door of every Nation?

Has Israel been a burden to lift?

When lifting Israel have those Nations face Trembling, and being cut into pieces?

How did the Bible know Nations would lift Israel?

What Nations back then lifted other Nations?

Accurate prophesy?

Is this evidence fair enough or gradping at straws. Bu common sense, its sold at a discount on clearance these days!!!

France and Francine

There are many miracles today. Often they seem like coincidences, more often in other countries. The more selfless we become the more the Spirit moves. It's our lack of faith and distractions that hide miracles from our view.

But we follow Him, not miracles. Signs and wonders follow, they do not lead.

Perhaps there is no greater miracle I can think of than the incredible depth and accuracy of His Word.

Worth saying again:

2000 prophesies fulfilled, 500 prophesies left to be fulfilled, likely some are in process of final fulfilmemt.

For over 6000 years God's Word literally stacked layers upon layers of prophesies sprung into play, stacked up one on top of another. It's like telling the story below to the millionth gazilion the power!

That would be like me saying to you who I don't know;

On Tues you will get a raise and a bonus.

You will take a trip and meet a girl named Alison and she is going to steal your wallet, money, and passport.

You will be then stuck at the American Embassy in France for 10 days trying to sort it out.

And at 7 pm on the 8th day you will meet a girl named Francine, she will be French but have great English skills, she will be interested and you will have a great date with her.

On the 10th day at 4 pm, the embassy will straighten out your passport.

But Francine will interest you so much that you stay for 10 days more.

Then after you leave France you will remain in America for 300 days, and Francine will have an unscheduled trip and you will be together for 5 days till she returns to France.

Your company will close and you will recieve 30,000 dollars for severance.

And with it you will move to France marry Francine, and have 3 children with 7 years. 2 boys and 1 girl.

The girl will be first.

You will remain in France till you are 53 years old and 2 months and 5 days.

Then you will move your family back to America.

Huh, I'm tired just prophesying 1 little thread of 1 life!

.... But what if you didn't get a bonus as I prophesied

You wouldn't have gone on a trip,

The girl wouldn't have stolen your wallet to

Place you at the embassy and no Francine …etc

That is like how God's Word is from Genesis to Revelations.

Did you ever wonder how many prophesies it took to fulfill one?

God moving Nations, President Kings, raising Popes and Pharoahs and tyrants, to Jesus and Reformers and Patriarchs.

………….

The genius of God is unreachable, His depths unknown. In the Bible we have a history book made to be an example giving us a wealth of knowledge, wisdom, advise, guidance, understanding, and He directed civilization through it.

Generations go by all ultimately in orbit around God and His Word!

We either love, hate, or ignore Him, but whether we know it or not, it is in the middle and we all are answering to it. If I asked any of you which of these you are, you all would have an answer. You all have a pat pet answer that you have said so often, you don't even realize it.

The Bible stands in the middle as we go around it, and everyone of us, not one of us hasn't, we all answered.

In every century it was the focus of men. Satan had a short time so he raised up an antichrist who stands between God and man and speakd as if he were God. For over millenniums they martyred the faithful, waged assault on the Word intent to currupt the faith.

Think about it, how did a pope rise to rule the world? Isn't it interesting, all these things are foretold.

You can see Satan’s movements and his demons throughout time, they appear in every era with enslavement and hate growing out of control.

You can see Satan chase after and target Gods people. God's Word and God's people faced brutal hate, and deviations of evil against God's people literally every era from oppressions of the Jews in Egypt, captives in Babylon, under the thumb of Roman rule, to early church martyrdom, the Inquisitions, to Hitler, to Jews and Christians.

This has always been the case, every generation God's Word and His people was standing in the middle. Everyone in every generation answering to Him, many are even on public record. Isn't that wild for such an insignificant book and a non-existent God.

You could even ask Egypt and Babylon, hey you where is God, and even though they have their own gods, they all step back for a split fraction of a second they know who God really is, all aware of Israel's God. And they all answered to it Him.

Except below taken from article link by http://khouse.org/

"If we take any length, we can divide it in half. We could retain the half, and divide it again, discarding the remainder. We take the remaining half, and divide it again, discarding the remainder.

We naturally assume that we could-at least conceptually-do this forever, dividing ever smaller remainders, etc. However, we would discover that when we reach a defining minimum-the “Planck length”-any attempts to divide the remainder results in “non-locality”: being everywhere at once!

It has been proven that all “non-local” particles throughout our apparent universe are somehow intimately connected simultaneously: negligible “travel time” is involved!

Everything we encounter: length, mass, time, energy-are all composed of indivisible units, commonly called “quanta.” This field of study is called “Quantum Physics” and its philosophical implications can be shattering to our presuppositions about our “reality.”

We now discover that the reality that surrounds us is a virtual reality-in fact, a digital electrical simulation!

Scientists are now beginning to suspect that our universe is but a “shadow” of a larger reality. That’s what the Bible has said all along! For deeper study, see our newest briefing, Technology and the Bible.

This article was originally published in the

March 2008 Personal Update News Journal.

Sign up here to receive our free email vesion of Personal Update

https://youtu.be/aIre1u0XskE

You have been argument bombed with straws! ------------------------

😂😅😄😁😇🤗😇😉

It's a phrase and doesn't mean anything? I didn't know UCLA professors were that incoherent. Thanks for explaining. Now I know not to listen to anything they say because what they say is not what they meant and though I believe I understand what I think they said, I can't be sure that what I heard is not what they meant.

They admit by their own words that they are speculation, they believe life emerged out of non-living matter so their science is imaginations of never ending unanswered questions. It's the logical fallacy of begging the question. Look it up. Google "begging the question". That's all this stuff supporting belief in abiogenisis and evolution is...it's begging the question and it's never ending speculations with no proof because it's never is seen to happen.

It's a joke..........it's an April fool's joke.

There is no credibility to the belief that life emerged out of non-living matter. It never happens, scientifically the only thing we know for sure is that all things living came from living things. The logical conclusion is that the originator of living things is The Living God. Believing life emerged out of non-living matter is silly, it's nonsense, it's unscientific, it's a waste of time.

Science observes living things or non-living matter, it never observes non-living matter turning into living things. Living things always come from living things, this is a scientific fact which is observed in nature. To believe that in the past, living things came from non-living matter is silly. People make careers out of silliness because they want their immoralities to be excused.

Are you willing to explain the steps of the beginning?

I was looking for something more concrete.

If evolution explain the beginning.

If you think something different then please explain your view or "facts" of the beginning of life.

I am looking for your facts of origin of life.

With all the biology i want to know the beginning of life from your view.

Is it a coincidence that middle Eastern Countries each possess flags that are the colors of the four horses in Revelations?

White Horse - Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize (2009) ..... Why?

Could he be a Trojan Horse in the White House? Has Obama brought peace?

Or has he brought "false peace?"

1 Thessalonians 5:3

While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.

https://goo.gl/images/IA2Nyo

For the prophesy below to have come true, God would have had to have fulfilled three prophesies to match history! -

To LINE UP WITH HISTORIC ACCURACY, There would have to be other prophesies fulfilled on which the prophesy below is dependent on.

THREE PROPHESIES HAD TO BE ACCURATE FOR THIS, NOT JUST ONE!!! All three were fulfilled.

2 OTHER Bible Prophesies -

1 -to scatter them to all the Nations, and 2 - then bring the Jews back from all the Nations He had scattered them, which are also other detailed prophesied! And bringing them back was fullfilled after ww2. .. ... Thousands of years after these prophesies!

Coincidence? Or is this inaccurate?

Was Terrorism a Biblical Prophesy?

Was the Middle East Crisis a Biblical Prophesy?

How many points can we accumulate for -

Bible Truth or Bible Lie?

It almost seems if it weren't for Israel life wouldn't be quite as disturbed. How is it that 4000 years of these people who really didn't bring much on themselves historically, are the matter that brings TREMBLING (OR TERROR!!!) To the door of EVERY Nation? Has Israel been a burden to lift? When lifting Israel

have those Nations face Trembling, and being cut into pieces?

How did the Bible know Nations would lift Israel? What Nations back then lifted other Nations?

Accurate prophesy?

BIBLE PROPHESY

Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of TREMBLING unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it… For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of

the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle

(Zech 12:2-3, Zech 14:2-3 KJV).”

.

For the prophesy below to have come true, God would have had to have fulfilled three prophesies to match history! -

To LINE UP WITH HISTORIC ACCURACY, There would have to be other prophesies fulfilled on which the prophesy below is dependent on.

THREE PROPHESIES HAD TO BE ACCURATE FOR THIS, NOT JUST ONE!!! All three were fulfilled.

2 OTHER Bible Prophesies -

1 -to scatter them to all the Nations, and 2 - then bring the Jews back from all the Nations He had scattered them, which are also other detailed prophesied! And bringing them back was fullfilled after ww2. .. ... Thousands of years after these prophesies!

Coincidence? Or is this inaccurate?

Was Terrorism a Biblical Prophesy?

Was the Middle East Crisis a Biblical Prophesy?

How many points can we accumulate for -

Bible Truth or Bible Lie?

It almost seems if it weren't for Israel life wouldn't be quite as disturbed. How is it that 4000 years of these people who really didn't bring much on themselves historically, are the matter that brings TREMBLING (OR TERROR!!!) To the door of EVERY Nation? Has Israel been a burden to lift? When lifting Israel

have those Nations face Trembling, and being cut into pieces?

How did the Bible know Nations would lift Israel? What Nations back then lifted other Nations?

Accurate prophesy?

BIBLE PROPHESY

Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of TREMBLING unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it… For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of

the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle

(Zech 12:2-3, Zech 14:2-3 KJV).”

.

Authenticity of the Gospels

I took the account of "Jesus' last words" that are disputes of atheist, and I noticed an element that shows their positioning in the crowd, from the court to Golgotha.

All four are eyewitness accounts.

I took out a pen and paper and detailed just the trial and cross. I did it from each prespective. From it, I can literally tell you where they were standing!

Their eyes telling details told me.

Matt. He was a paranoid scared emotional mess that day.

. 1 - Matthew tells details of Judas, as if he, Matthew, was lerking in the area were he could see the religious leaders congregating. He was there without the other three writers. He notes Judas' sequence of events as though he was watching Judas throw the money back.

.... a) So the Pharisees I'd visualize were conspiring together, probably all in one section. And when Judas returned the silver, Matt saw him, that Judas was distraught, and then later found he hung himself.

.... b) The details Matt gives about the court room seem to be from he observe from lerking around behind the area the Pharisees were congregated. If thats the case, then there is a pretty good chance it's an eyewitness prespective of the court room.

. 2 - John was with Mary, the whole time. Mary being the mother of Jesus was not running and hiding. He stood by Mary. As Jesus' mother she had some freedom throughout the events.

.... a) Mary was inside the court room. John was with her, comforting her, while everyone else was hiding.

.... b) So he is the best most detailed one on details from a ring side seat prespective. And not of the conversations of people outside the court room.

.... c) So his details at court, as well as the cross are the details are from a prespective one one would record as if sitting up front.

.... d) It's the same way at the cross. John was in front, not hiding.

. 3 - So in the court room, John records testimonies and details as if the center hall was in his plain view.

. 4 - At the foot of the cross Jesus is having conversations with John

.... a) No others record personal conversations of Jesus from the cross.

.... b) Others record loud statements heard as if in the crowd

.... c) John records what he can hear because of his position.

.... d) John records "I am thirsty, the others mention Jesus

calling out a statement loudly, then people running around putting vinegar on a sponge giving Jesus a sponge of bitter

wine to drink. But it doesn't match what the statement was, it's like unmatched. These other guys hear a statement, then record actions that don't match what was heard loudly from in the noisy crowd!

.... e) But John records I am thirsty. And them running around giving Him this awful drink.

Every piece tells where all of these men are, and not one is

even trying to tell anther prespective.

And I can go point by point on all four

. 5 - Matthew says - the two thieves were yelling insults.

.... a) Matt goes on and on about people shouting insults. You can really get in Matt's head, it's like his focus is on the screaming so he was in that frame of mind, and in the midst of a hostile crowd.

.... b) If Matthew was on the far left of the thieves. He may only be able to make out some of what the left thief was saying. But could visibly see the thief on the right side yelling back.

.... c) Matthew seems to be on a rant as he mentions the list of people all around him hurling insults, and recants them as if the injustice is beyond reason, he seems to be in shock of it all, and emotionally agitated.

. 6 - Luke seems to be more toward the cross on the right side of Jesus, and can hear the thief on the leftt insulting, and the the thief on the right side of Jesus defending Jesus.

.... a) But it's not a discrepancy, it's the opposite, it fills it prespective of eyewitness like recounts of any event, if you add up all the parts, or better yet create a scene with puzzle pieces of prespectives, you can picture it exactly as it was, as each wrote it from where they personally were during the event.

. 7 - Mark is the only one who records Joseph, the rich guy who donated the tomb, needing to get up "enough courage to request the body of Jesus post mortum"

.... a ) Mark, being somewhat connected to Peter was probably with Peter and the wealthy man named Joseph, on thr edge of the crowd, off to the side just off the street where people were not engaged in the event, but passing by in their everyday routine.

.... b) Mark records more "passers-by material,"

.... c) Even with the details of the trial for Mark are from a distanced observer.

.... d) If Mark was or wasn't an eyewitness could go either way, either he was there as Peter's sidekick hanging with Peter, and writing as more of Peter's prespective being in Peter's circle, and influenced by Peter's prespective by association. Or he wasn't there and recounted details as Peter gave.

------------------

I was amazed when I did it myself, I have determined that historians even biblical scholars complicate things. The professional peer pressure is a likely factor in their declarations. We all need to be scholars. We cannot take anything at face value in these last days.

A flood of deceptions are poured out in maximum proportions. This is by blinding judgement from God. Giving people over to their deceptions, sin, and flesh, all consuming with a gravitational pull that up till recent years has been lifted for some ability to reach out of the dust, and follow the light to the Way of Truth and Salvation. The gravitational pull of the blackhole of Sheol is the end of man.

In the end will lock and seal them under the law and under the "serpent's belly." The serpent is the prosecutor and jailer. Imprisoning all dust and flesh under him.

Only those made righteous through the work of Jesus, providing the Ark to escape being swept away as by flood, through the Ark of the Covenant, through the way of the cross and the resurection.

I went to these accounts myself to answer skeptic criticism of the Gospel accounts validity as eyewitnesses.

Just taking this one event, the biggest event in the Gospels. I found all four written, each with a different prespective from their vantage point of where they were standing or walking during the event.

I detailed each Gospel account during the trial and crucifixtion of Jesus. I could literally see the event from their unique prespectives, of their individual vantage point of where they were standing. And by what they could see, and not see. And what they could hear, and not hear. And what was going on around them according to their proximity and their placement during the entire event from the court up to the last breath of Jesus.

I could clearly see their frame of mind, their personalities, their memory with their emotions of that particular day seen in their writing of the details, and their mental state on that day, their response to a variety of elements that they each separately experienced that day.

This was one time where they were scattered, one time where each would have the most differences in their experience, because being scattered gave each a different vantage point all together because of their unique placements during this event.

Whereas the other chapters of each Gospel are more personality and prespective as from within the group. The trial and cross were actual prespective by their presence and placement during the event, separated from being together within the group.

In my opinion, what "they" say is not the final determination limiting my own responsibility to think. Secular and even many Bible scholars" are guessing, or playing the professional peer review game.

Some conclude what they want to conclude, what they intend to spin as truth, regardless of actual truth. Some are afraid of all their professional peers. And most blogs and sites for or against the authenticity of eyewitness in the Gospels are just a mimick of either version they want to use to support their own views.

--------

So I studied for myself, and found this question of eyewitness authenticity answers itself right in the biblical text itself. By a little reading comprehension, contextual inference, and common sense, the writer shows us who exactly were the eyes of each of the Gospel accounts are.

The court and cross accounts in each Gospel is unique because they weren't viewing the event together as a group.

They were scattered, this portion of the Gospel is written from a more unique and per individual prespective. The disciples were completely separated out of the group, and either hiding alone, or with just a few of the others. We can see that difference in throughout this event specifically.

John was inside the courthouse area with Mary, and at the foot of the cross with Mary.

John was going through this day at Mary's pace, managing Mary's grief, along side her all day.

Luke was the second closest, still hanging low, but his vantage point was inside the court area, but on the side toward where the people exited headed to Galgatha. Luke caught many details of the court case, and also caught some side conversations, after Jesus was sentenced in the court area and also while Jesus was being lead to Golgotha.

Matthew was behind where the Pharisees were, and was outside of the court room, opposite side of were Luke was.

And Mark was not in the court area close enough to detail testimonies or the commotion after the sentencing.

Mark was likely hanging low with Peter, and also along with the rich man named Joseph, who donated his tomb.

Mark's account shows he was likely with Peter and Joseph, the tomb gifter. The account is described as if it were from prespective of one on the furthest edge of the entire event, yet within proximity to record them from a prespective of one standing further away from the action that the other three.

Mark's prespective is from by the road side, where people were going past. Passing through the commotion while going about their daily routine.

Most of Mark's comments are as if from a prespective of watching it all from an area where people passing through, and not where people were in huddled together as spectators inside the crowd. "Passing by" and "shaking their heads." And not from in the midst of the crowd, noise, and chaos.

Mark writes Jesus' criminal sentencing and the crucifixion as recounted by a prespective of one close enough to see the activity outside the courthouse, and hearing bits as people went by them, on the road to Golgotha, but not close enough to record the details of testimonies and conversations.

At the trial John sat with Mary inside the court room, a premium seat. And at the cross, John was directly in front of the cross.

Luke made it to Galgatha before John and Mary. So you can imagine that Mary was an emotional wreck, and John moved at her lead as he comforted her.

Luke made it down to where they were erecting the cross to its upright position before John. He catches Jesus saying Father forgive them ... and also the conversation Jesus had with the thief on the right side.

Luke was standing closer to the thief on the right side. And also seems to be in the mist of a less noisy crowd compared to Matthew's position. Mark pretty much stayed in the business road, at the outer edge or outside of the crowd.

Matthew was standing on the far side of the left side thief, and in the midst of a noisy hostile crowd.

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Predictions are educated guesses or point of reference guesses, they have a basis for prediction which adds a higher likelihood of partial and even complete accuracies.

There is a basis for predictions. Predictions are point of reference, predictive knowledge supported guesses, a baseline of information for a probable guess, an educated guess.

What makes prophesy completely unique?

Prophesy often has no basis for guess or prediction. Biblical Prophesy most often are like cells mutating, selectively knit together to form one living thing. One Prophesy fulfilled likely dependent on several other supporting Prophesies also required to be fulfilled. Prophesies in Sequence are the common thread found in Biblical Prophesy, and often no basis of outcome exists in Prophecies.

Predictions are a natural phenominom. Prophesies are supernatural. They are miraculous because of their complexity. Prophesy is:

1 - God designing events to unfold at scheduled appointed times

2 - God's response to foreknowledge of man's footprint, actions, behaviors, events, and advancements progressing through time according to the free will given you God to man.

Predictions are NOT equal to Prophesies. It is a mistake to view these two terms as similar. They are exclusive unrelated terms.

Predictions are NOT Prophesy, and Prophesies are NOT Predictions!

Say a guy goes to Luna the fortune teller. The guy is a single good looking guy, Luna could predict the guy would find of the love of his life in the summer next year, that's a deductive prediction of fortune telling. These predictions take the cake for the Captain Obvious awards in predictions.

This is NOT Prophesy!

We hear everyday claims of "I knew it!" "I could feel it!" Or "I predicted that would happen!" This is NOT Prophesy!

There is a broad base of knowledge to draw from for higher accuracy of predictions in all of these types of predictions. They are educated or point of reference supported guesses. This is NOT Prophesy!

With that there is an acceptable margin of error that we grade on the curve as perfect predictions, making real prophesy equal to predictions, an then equalize prophesy, desensitized to the difference.

So when we hear "Bible Prophesy" we define it somewhere between all of these types of predictions that's our experience and understanding of predictions or prophesies.

But none of these types of predictions are equal to Biblical Prophesy.

Biblical Prophesy isn't a prediction. It is pre-written history with a level of no allowance for margin of error.

The Prophets Prophesied times, and time periods.

They Prophesied changes in political, regional, geographical, social, economical, religious factors and changes in peace and war. And changes from wars, and in nature.

Prophesied natural disasters, cataclysmic events, famines, floods, earthquake, pestilence, water quality and poisoning, etc!

The Bible prophesied the rise and fall of Kingdoms, of Kings, and of Rulers.

The Bible Prophesied names enemies and friends, and prophesied every detail beginning to end, all in the pages of the Bible.

The prophets prophesied with complete accuracy, all the time and often from no point of reference.

Prophets often had no point of reference or basis to dream up or imagine future events. It would be like Moses predicting the Internet.

No point of reference, if you have a phone you can dream up a cell phone, if communication by camel is all you know, your not likely dreaming up a fax machine or the ability to email a letter.

To some degree point of reference plays a roll in the reach of our imagination.

The prophet's points of reference for much of their prophesies could not have been predictive or dream up the accuracy of details found in their prophesies.

The other aspect, when reading and understanding prophesy is to realize point of reference of the prophet, language of their day, and a badic knowledge of the subject of the prophesy.

if you are unrealistic, for example, looking for modern words to describe modern events, foretold by an ancient prophet then you may feel it seems inaccurate, vague, or incomplete.

This handicap defines your ability or disability to understand the prophesy, your handicap doesn't define prophesy, it only defines your disability to understand and interpret the prophesy.

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Prophetic fulfillments are often met with bogus defensive barriers that truth resistent unbelievers raise to close the door to any real review of challenges, of real truth to their comfortably familiar deceptions.

Truth resistent unbelievers often raise unrealistic expectations in applying prophecies to their historical fulfillments.

Empty arguments based soley on unrealistic under-whelmed attitudes.

Not any real value rebuttals raised to any of my argument points of Bible prophesy. No logical explanation of the differences frpm prophesy and its fullfillment. How details how it doesnt apply, or historic value, or to my many points of evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Yet somehow, these mumbo jumbo arguments are raised based on how the truth resistent say they "feel under-whelmed at the evidence presented."

And that's the only lame argument?

..... Really?

These are empty arguments by any measure when we take in consideration the many rare and unususual biblical events. Biblical history often following the least likely course of direction, through the most unusual sequences of events, with the most unpredictable fantastical, supernatural outcomes.

Accuracy of biblical history is confirmed through linguists, historians, and archaeologists, and validated through more recent digs which uncovered many artifacts notably in an order of occurrence of events, in expected locations, lwith artifacts and many findings of biblical proportions.

Against all odds and probability, land mark events in biblical history seem to follow an atypical chain of events. Taking the most unusual course of direction, each history least expected outcome

that one event, let alone many events found in fantastic biblical historical accounts, as documented per account found in the Bible.

Natural progression would be low unlikely to follow of the sequence in chain of events and outcomes, in combination of 1000s of prophetic of know fulfilled prophesies of men and nations. Circumstances and landmark events following patterned against all odds outcomes in land mark biblical events, against all odds key movement through every generation took unlikely improbable often impossible odds, but as if fatefully outcome had a known outcome.

unlikely and improbable in outcome of events. and unusual sequences of events, with signs that have improbable implications of the evidence of the historic let accounts supernatural circumstances, evidence of Divine Intrusion moving through time with an ultimate end is overwhelming The evidence, especially the combination of all of it is overwhelming not under-whelming! And we are just in snippets of the evidence for thought to consider proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

The lack of reasoning and logic are empty arguments have no worth as a reasonable argument. his follow through example, not far off the evidence just a tad bit below this what would be an extremely over-whelming example is this I dont care if I presented prophesies in the language of modern day and advancements, I'm convinced, if I presented prophesy from Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel even using modern words like motors, guns, planes, TV, phoned, computers the truth resistent would still unseasonably dismiss the application of prophesy even if it wad written in perfect modern day man in the hands of ancient Hebrew patriarchs.

due to differences terminology and familiarity of modern advancements and other related time period differences. If one approaches prophesy with bias and without objectivity then prophesy will not and can not be understood.

Therefore, if you are unable to read and understand prophesy, or unable to be objective in interpretation of prophesy, then misunderstanding is due to the readers personal limitations.

Spiritual illiteracy prevents insight and understanding.

The spiritually illiterate reader is kept in the dark. They are unable to developed skills needed to understand prophesy.

If for any reason the reader can not or will not apply even the most basic skills in reasoning or logic, it may be the result of a foolish darkened mind, or a stuborn hard heart, these attitudes closes the door to their own understanding.

A heart that Comes to Light, Loves Truth, and Seeks God will learn from the Holy Spirit and of the voice of Jesus confirmed in the brethern.

Prophesy interpretations require a willingness to understand, spiritual wisdom, discernment, and knowledge surrounding subjects of prophesy, appropriate application of prophesy in the context of God's nature and character, His will, and His purposes of the past, present, and future.

Prophesy fulfillment, adherance to foundational sound doctrines of Christian faith, understanding scripture context, moral integrity, principles of sound reason and logistic clarity, able to apply accuracy in reading comprehension, and practical, spiritual, and prophetic comprehension.

But above all, the most important element needed in prophetic interpretations require The Holy Spirit of Truth, who opens our eyes to see, our ears to hear, and gives understanding to softened and responsive heart.

Without the presence of the Holy Spirit biblical literacy is not possible, particularly in scriptures rich in prophetic spiritual depth and where idden mysteries are layered within it's texts, reserved for revelation, and made known to those born again of the Spirit. Obscured in God's Word to be sought as hidden treasure, spiritual revelations purposely withheld to the understanding unavailable to the natural minds of natural men.

Jesus Explains Prophesy:

10 And the disciples came and said to

Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

12 For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

14 In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive;

15 For the heart of this people

has become dull, With their ears they

scarcely hear, And they have closed

their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return,

And I would heal them.’

Points of evidence -

Hebrews 11: 1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old gained approval. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Here are some points of Christian reasoning to consider. Many atheist think faith is illogical. But it actually has many good reasons to consider faith is logical and has true intelligent evidence. And this is just skimming some of the reasonable thoughts to believe.

Evidence when viewed goes "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt!" Even secular sources like Thallus (52AD)

Thallus is perhaps the earliest secular writer to mention Jesus, his ancient his writings don’t even exist anymore, but Julius Africanus, writing around 221AD, does quote Thallus who previously tried to explain away the darkness occurring at Jesus’ crucifixion:

“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down.

This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

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Here is just some evidence that supports an affirmative verdict "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" regarding biblical facts, including the Resurection:

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1 - The Prophetic Words, and the Biblical Directions of Prophesy, and the Plan, the ultimate bottom line action and goals of Biblical content and Prophesy.

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2 - Because Biblical History is credible it is a source in support of evidence.

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3 - Because Biblical Prophesy is credible in its fulfillments it is an even greater source in support of evidence, especially since prophesy is layered, with many separate prophesies having to also come true for one to come true! - Even greater than knitting cells together in evolution!

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4 - Because eye witness testimony, even outside of the Bible, other documents, Greek and Roman secular offer details confirming the dynamics of Christianity and Persecutions and Martyrdom.

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5 - The accounts are not contradictions, (as though any were lying) the various times and places of writings actually are a confirmation of reliability, people who lie have fuzzy memories in a week, even with practice and easy communications of our day, lies unravel because even the untrained eye can pick out lies, but that's not the case with the four gospels, they confirm accidentally each other's facts, that show true eyewitness independent works, with different perspectives of the same exact event, as you know since you "read the book" the private investigated discusses this.

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6 - The degree of insistence on the testimonies of Christians, and it's growth beyond their group, location, and generation. In comparison Muslims were militant from the start, attracting like violent individuals. It would not have the same magnet effect as peaceful Christians fed to lions. One would excell in dominance, like cell selection, the other would be eliminated as passive cells are dominated.

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7 - The Prophetic Words spoken of concerning the rejection by its "mother religion" and the Prophetic Words stating as Messiah would be rejected, All Nations would hear an exclusive religion, rejected by its originator and accepted world wide!

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8 - 300 prophesies fulfilled in just the one person Jesus

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9 - Martyrdom, the ferverency and

dedication, they most all went courageously against horrible opposition, and most ultimately died for it. And not in a group drinking poison like Jim Jones, Christians often died or were imprisoned alone and often died gruesome deaths.

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10 - Paul a Jew of Jews, happily killing Christians saw what must have been a hologram! Jesus the Risen Lord knocked him off a horse and blinded him, then sent him to talk to his disciples.

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11 - With the persecution and resistance met by Christianity, I would think there would be plenty of documentations and writings stating these rebels are liars and all the miracles are lies.

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12 - Secular sources independent of and even hostile to Christian faith have other historic texts that make the New Testament all the more reliable and credible as it is confirmed also through non-religious sources.

In support of this evidence - Ancient documentation by Thallus in 52 AD stating it, and also astronomers confirmed there would not have been an eclipse that day. So it is a "supernatural event" or a perfectly timed coincidence.

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Notes for Point # 10

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Picture this. Saul/Paul had just led a crowd in Stephen's stoning, Saul was unmoved by it, it was something he was gladly a part of. All the Christians knew of Saul, and he scared of them, they feared for their lives.

Jesus knocks Saul off of a horse, and disarms him by making him temporarily blind. Probably so the Christians wouldn't fear him when he pulled up on his horse. Jesus made him disabled in killing them, so he couldn't harm them.

Jesus sends Saul to get disciples that just saw him murder their friend and brother, Stephen!

Saul was a murderer, and is sitting there in a Christians home waiting for help, for Christian hospitality, kindness, and salvation! For healing, and to be filled with the Holy Spirit! This is crazy evidence! What changed for Saul? Do you think a conversation convinced him?

Paul then goes on to lead the way like a driven work horse to bring the Gospel of Jesus the Risen Christ to the Gentiles.

Saul Jew of Jews - takes on a new name, born again, and brought the gospel out to the Gentiles.

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Notes for Point # 11 Example of a supernatural "coincidence" regarding Jesus. Is noted the darkness and earthquake during the crucifixtion, noted by

The greater challenge of the New Testament would be there are no writings saying the claims of miracles to be fraudulent.

With the persecution and resistance met by Christianity, I would think there would be plenty of documentations and writings stating these rebels are liars and all the miracles are lies.

This would be an even greater expectation, since we have plenty of writings in the affirmative of these supernatural dynamics. Christians had little I'd any power to control anything from the onset of the faith throughout the dark ages.

After all, the are documented by 4 Gospel writers, and in acts and letters.

Catholocism and Constantine, even though he converted he went on to established Catholocism which martyred Christians in the millions who resisted Catholicism. Catholocism was involved in centuries up to almost modern day has waged war against real Bible translation and the common man having it to have a direct contact to God, rather than require poe and priests. The burned their Bibles and writings, and martyred true believers as heretics.

Catholocism wanted to control the populous so only the the Catholic Church had the written Word, hence the "Dark Ages." The one sect remained true to the faith, and the Word was a black market item punishable by prison or death.

I consider these points as even more proof.

No writings found rebutting claims of miracles is also evidence in favor of the Resurection. There are No rebuttals of claims of Jesus' miracles, or of the early Christian miracles.

Which should be more so, in excessive amounts and from all sides of the opposition, from Jews, Romans, and Greeks!

They had even more reason to write against claims, then the Christians who already had much documentation of the miracles and Words of Jesus in all the writings we did and do already have as Christians.

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Notes for Point # 12

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The Gospels have been historically confirmed the same way anything historical has been confirmed.

Even more so, secular sources independent of, and even in hostility to Christian faith have ancient historic texts that confirm details in the Gospels, and the New Testament and affirm them all the more reliable and credible, as it is confirmed through varieties of religious and non-religious sources. And through use of a little common sense.

Such as the the strange darkness from the 6th hour to the 9th hour. And then added documentation with scientifical explanation to be not an eclipse, so what manner of coincidence is it?

Summary, there are reasonable and logical conclusions for believing as found in the historical account of the crucifixion, as noted even the Roman Soldiers concluded this, "Surely He was the Son of God."

I conclude by theses points of evidence, Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, that of course the Resurection occurred. It is a God thing to do according to prophesies clear and detailed as found in His Word the Bible, according to His will and purpose and scheduled at His appointed time!

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Who knows?

Who knows if the sun existed before fruit trees? Apparently not you.

You can speculate about a lot of things

"hahahahah.......", "in [your] own words they are speculations"

there is no reason to disbelieve the six literal days of creation

Yes, there are lots more reasons:

has the earth, sun, universe, etc. existed for more than 6,000 years?

is there water in the atmosphere?

does water evaporate?

how is there "waters" before not just a sun, but before even light(/heat)?

are the sun and moon in the earth's atmosphere?

is the moon a "light" itself or does it only reflect sunlight?

did birds exist before land animals?

did whales exist before land animals?

do amphibians exist?

did fruit trees exist before any life existed in the oceans?

were all animals vegan before the (non-existent) global flood?

does "after his kind" allow for evolution?

in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth - then, on day 2, he created the firmament which he called Heaven - um?

There are probably several others even though there are only 31 total verses in Gen 1.

you might want to disbelieve the Bible.

I wonder why.

Your science should have an answer. A tangible duplicatable answer. Its science.

Dont start with a living thing. Thats starting after the fact.

In the beginning, how was it formed without destroying itself. And how did it progress and how did nature balance while the process continued and how did the first animals present themselves.

So far all I have is a story of living things after living things existed. No one explained anything other than we have a dna for eyes so some creatures got eyes.

That doesnt answer my question.

I think you cant answer. And, You dont actually know. Lol ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 😅😂😅🙃😄😅😂

He won't mock me. I acknowledge His greatness.

If God mocks all of the fools He will probably come after the theists who don't think God is responsible for science first.

No it isn't. Your version of evolution is just as stupid as your reason for believing in the Bible.