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The fair tax is better bvecause it allows people to keep more of their money while at the same time provides the funds for government programs. The fair tax is a 23% sales tax, which is awesome.
Actually it would not. The 23% sales tax would bring in more money to the federal government, meaning it would take more money from the people overall. So it would be a tax increase. Now, lower the number and you would be correct. Make it 15% and everyone would see a nice tax cut, however, we still have the problem with seniors having a huge tax increase burdened upon them.
Do you know who this fair tax would be best for. Individuals without kids. If someone does not have kids they will make out like bandits if they so choose. If someone has kids, they HAVE to spend a certain amount of money on the kids, like clothing, toys, etc. I am talking about the middle class here. This fair tax will have winners and losers, just like any other government program enacted.
I don't currently pay 23% overall in taxes after I get my refund check. If I have to pay 23% for all my goods I will be paying more taxes than I am right now. How does a fair tax give me more money?
I just read that people will get a monthly check from the government depending on how large your family is, no matter what your income is. So, say you have a family of four and total income is 200,000 a year. The government will GIVE you 6700 dollars a year to pay for things. This family works the system and is very frugal with their spending. The government is going to come up massively short in this circumstance. The only way around this is to drop the rebate on everyone, hurting the poor and middle class, or raise the rate to over 50%.
The end result will be SOME of the poor and middle class will revert to stealing when they see how much they will be paying in a national sales tax.
Simply put, you can't get rid of the income tax AND give money to everyone and hope the numbers work out. I don't see it as reasonable. Not to mention that businesses get a free ride. Next thing you know everyone will become a business owner and declare their purchases part of their business. It actually is very easy to get a business license.
What do you think Cartman, I would like to hear your position on this in general.
If you give money to people based on their family size and their income it might work out. If there is a cap to how much is refunded overall and only the poorest people get that refund you can avoid a shortfall. Also, with the business thing, you need an oversight organization like the IRS. It is ridiculous to think the IRS can be eliminated.
Here is the article detailing it all out. From my understanding, Donald Trump would get a monthly rebate check since it is not based on income. The way I look at it is this is the biggest ENTITLEMENT program ever concocted in our history.
Those numbers are almost correct except a family of 4 that makes 26400 a year would get 6072 a year for the basic necessities. This is in 12 increments of 506. The probate would only give a family of four this much regardless of their income.
Your funny I would like to know where you get your information. Businesses don't get a free ride from it. They have to pay the tax for the items they buy too. I don't think you even understand businesses cover their corporate taxes as it is. It always goes to an individual.
Not according to the article from wikipedia. It says business to business transactions are not taxed.
Taxable items and exemptions[edit]
The tax would be levied once at the final retail sale for personal consumption on new goods and services. Purchases of used items, exports and business-to-business intermediate transactions would not be taxed.
Comparisons are used to figure out how things differ. I didn't say anything wrong. I am not judging anything. I was asking a question. You did the research. How would I have more money? It seems like I would have less.
It would be better if you did your own research instead of letting others tell you everything about it. Go to fairtax.org, or there is a book on the subject. But seriously you should do your own research and calculations on the subject. This is so others then cant lie to you if you know the truth. The book is called the FairTax book.
Your job in a debate is to make sure that your opponent is presented with the information needed for him to lose his poor opinion. If you are right about the fair tax, my opinion would actually be worse than yours. If your opinion is better and you have research to demonstrate that, you should present the research information instead of telling me I can keep believing the wrong thing.
I said that you job as a debater is to do something that you then said you refuse to do. There is no strawman here. You can't say anything more clearly than you said you don't want to debate.
Because your refund is a sham. It would abolish the income, payroll, corporate income taxes, death tax, self-employment taxes, gift tax, capital gains tax, alternative minimum tax as well as all the other embedded taxes in your everyday items.
Then it adds the 23% into all of your everyday items. just from the income tax and payroll taxes the average American pays roughly 32% in taxes.
I pay 32% into the system, but my sham refund gives me back my money. I end up not paying 32%. Are you saying the average American pays 32% in taxes after the refund?
The average worker makes 50,084 a year. That is how you get to your 32%. What about all the people who make way less than that? Seems like they will get shafted under this proposal. I know people who pay nowhere near 32%, in fact, many pay just the current payroll taxes, which are under 10%. The argument that the worker actually pays 15.9% in payroll tax is very disputable. There is no certainty that the employer passes it off in the form of lower wages.
Cartman, I was not disputing you, I was disputing mcgrath. I don't know why this site does not put it directly under the person you are responding to.
The first question that needs to be asked is work better for who? That was in your debate headline. You need to clear that up first. Do you mean for the government or for individuals or both.
It would work better for the economy as a whole. Also the probate, not prebate is not ment to cover the sales tax entirely just the basic necessities. Also to add, social security and medicare will not be gotten rid of. The price of goods will stay roughly the same since the consumer will get to keep their entire check, and all the current embedded taxes will be removed from the items. All things, then will have the new sales tax embedded in them. There are no exemptions from this tax. No, a .77 cent item will not have a .23 cent tax. what part of every dollar spent doesn't make sense.
What about seniors who paid the income tax for 40 years or more? Now they have to pay the fair tax on everything they purchase? The only way this would work is if all seniors kept every receipt throughout the year and sent them in to the government to get reimbursed. If the government just sent a certain amount to each senior then some would lose and some would win. It would not be fair to the seniors who saved up for retirement who wanted to spend money, now would it.
A senior who planned for their retirement should not have to pay one single penny more than they are now, otherwise, it is a huge tax increase on them.
Also. think about all the people who will be unemployed from this. Besides the people who work for the IRS, everyone who is a tax consultant will be out of a job.
The proposed fair tax would be a sales tax that involved paying 23% of every dollar. It amounts to a 30% sales taxon the product price. His statement was accurate.
Income Tax was a FAIR(er) tax when we had a Republican President named IKE. It has since been made UN-fair. The so-called "fair tax" is only fair to those who could afford to pay more. 15% of a working mans paycheck is a huge chunk, while to the rich, it's "pocket change"! What's FAIR????
Here is something to think about. Since the IRS will be abolished there will be no audits. So, for instance, say you went to your mechanic and the price of a new engine is 2000 dollars. At 23% that is a 460 dollar sales tax. Your mechanic tells you give me 2100 in CASH and that will be all. The government sees no money and you actually save money and the mechanic also makes extra while the government gets nothing.
There will be two kinds of economies, the credit/debit card and the CASH economy. The next thing you know the government is upping the 23% rate to get back all the money lost in the cash economy. The smart people will pay cash when they can and not pay nowhere near the 23% and the stupid people bear the brunt of this tax.
Now, I would be one of the smart people, so I would make out like a bandit. LOL
I read a couple of articles that states the actual percent would be 30 to possibly 34 percent. Talk about fraud getting around this, it would be everywhere.
Actually if the new engine was 2000 dollars and the mechanic says to give you 2100 dollars they would be ripping you off due to the fact the 23% sales tax being in the cost already.
"critics have a way of dwelling on this 30% [or more] figure...What is at the issue is the mathematical equivalent of a game of semantics."
The fair tax is an inclusive sales tax. if you buy a $100 toaster $23 would be sent to the federal government. Now if you found a $77 toaster from another store that used an exclusive sales tax then adding the $23 would be a 29.9 or 30% increase. Our current sales tax is an exclusive sales tax. Why don't you actually research the bill its self.
I think you are the one that is confused. Under the Fair Tax business to business transactions are NOT taxed. So, if my mechanic pays 2000 dollars for the engine, he is not going to charge me under 2000 dollars, he would LOSE money on the deal. I pay the tax at the time of the sale. He would have to charge me over 2000 so the 23% is included. If we agree to a set cash price that is under the 23% then I am coming out ahead. The government will not see the transaction, I am saving money. The mechanic will make his money on the labor end, which is non taxable.
Exactly, Which would mean the final cost to me with the tax would be over 2300 dollars. By paying cash and negotiating the final price works out for both of us. He was assuming I was going to pay the tax, which I clearly am not.
It would be like me knowing the owner of a jewelry store and the price of a necklace was 1000 with the tax built in. The actual price is 777 dollars. If we agree to a cash price of 877 dollars, he makes an extra 100 dollars and I save 123 dollars by avoiding paperwork and the sales tax. This is how many people will try to get around the sales tax. Each of us benefits, doubtful the owner will not want to make a few extra bucks himself, hence, the little extra for doing it. Of course, if he and I are very close he may give me the entire break. lol
But, the guy will be committing a crime. People like you will force the government to have to spend more money on the new "IRS". Audits will happen again. The tax rate will go up. Damn it man. You ruined it for everyone.
It takes just so much money to run a country. If the FED has little or no income, the states will HAVE to increase THEIR income. It would be a disaster for states with more land and roads than people. The country would be one big clusterfk, and FAR worse than it is now! The so-called "fair tax" would take a far more hurtful piece of a 70 - 100,000 workers income than a multi million income. The "middle class" would find it difficult (to impossible) to exist. Lawyers that the rich could afford would STILL find ways, and lobby to make laws, that would make extreme incomes harder to "find". With no IRS to enforce "checks and balances", we would soon find ourselves a one sided oligarchy! (We're nearly there NOW! Give the conservatives the White House, the Congress and the Senate and it is guaranteed!
Do you want to know how idiotic this plan is. It will tax doctor visits and medication. Boy, there is a great way to get people to improve their health. People will stop seeing doctors and stop spending money on medicine when they need to cut back on something. Freaking brilliant idea.
