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The idea that the royal family costs the state money is a fallacy.
The royal family receive a salary from the government (40 million). The royal family have an agreement with parliament that parliament receives the profits from the royal lands (200 million). If they were no longer the royal family then they would take back their land and the treasury would be worse off. This state would be at lest 160 million worse off and possibly much more considering the negative effect on tourism.
Tradition and history are the central points upon which the rest of British culture revolves around. Our monarchy is a living testament of our ability to adapt and mould our government without the need for mass bloodshed and revolution, almost every other nation on the planet who has removed their monarch did so with huge losses to the population and soon afterwards resulted in a void of administration, which were soon occupied by whichever group had the most power at the time.
Historically our monarchy (like many other monarchies) existed to limit the power of the nobility, but uniquely had their power limited by the nobility, thus resulting in a careful balance of authority that was able to be shaped as time developed, resulting in the constitutional monarchy in which we find ourselves today.
Politically, I find our Queen a crucial part of our democracy, in that she is Head of the Armed Forces as well as being responsible for almost all official appointments, thus all British nationalism is directed towards her and not to whoever is Prime Minister at the time. Therefore leading to the Prime Minister and other politicians being scrutinised more heavily without the fear of scrutinisers appearing unpatriotic. In comparison to the U.S Republic system, their armed forces and their school pupils must pledge allegiance to the President, thus any action that criticises their elected Head of State could easily be interpreted as an act of treason.
Additionally, and most obviously, the Royal Family provide a vast economic benefit in the level of tourism they provide to our nation. They are iconic not only to us but to the many parts of the world upon which our nation has affected.
Our monarchy is a living testament of our ability to adapt and mold our government without the need for mass bloodshed and revolution
Umm what? So you've never heard of the English Civil war? The monarchy of England had fucked up the country in many ways, and there is at least one example to disillusion any romanticized view of the monarchy.
Historically our monarchy (like many other monarchies) existed to limit the power of the nobility, but uniquely had their power limited by the nobility, thus resulting in a careful balance of authority that was able to be shaped as time developed, resulting in the constitutional monarchy in which we find ourselves today.
No, it did not. The constitutional monarchy was the forged in the furnace of blood and steel.
Have you ever read Wealth of Nations? Smith explains quite clearly, over and over, that nobility and gov't worked in tandem. And it wasn't just limited to local gov't, either. Workers were punished for protests or strikes, and the few nobles who held a great deal of power easily and quite often worked together in their collective interests to hold the workers down, and (whenever the situation would warrant it) the state would facilitate such efforts.
Your monarchy at this point is completely token, if your monarchy had control you'd be in some deep shit. Period.
Politically, I find our Queen a crucial part of our democracy, in that she is Head of the Armed Forces as well as being responsible for almost all official appointments, thus all British nationalism is directed towards her and not to whoever is Prime Minister at the time. Therefore leading to the Prime Minister and other politicians being scrutinized more heavily without the fear of scrutinizers appearing unpatriotic.
I agree, your current government works quite well and is now considerably better than the US model. I just massively disagree on why.
In comparison to the U.S Republic system, their armed forces and their school pupils must pledge allegiance to the President, thus any action that criticizes their elected Head of State could easily be interpreted as an act of treason.
I don't even...
"I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
Our president is elected once every 4 years and is only the head of 1 of our 3 branches that keep themselves in check. I've never heard of any american being called "unpatriotic" for dissing the president. I should be surprised that you said that, but sadly I'm not.
Additionally, and most obviously, the Royal Family provides a vast economic benefit in the level of tourism they provide to our nation. They are iconic not only to us but to the many parts of the world upon which our nation has affected.
They're iconic of a much more brutal history that the masses have largely forgotten or ignored. That being said, the royal family does provide economic benefits.
"Umm what? So you've never heard of the English Civil war? The monarchy of England had fucked up the country in many ways, and there is at least one example to disillusion any romanticized view of the monarchy."
Pardon me, I meant to address the English civil war. While it was one of the bloodiest conflicts England has ever been in, it can be hardly called a revolution. Yes, the got rid of the King, but they replaced him with a Lord Protector with almost identical powers and restored the monarchy a decade or two later.
And please explain how the monarchy of the UK has "fucked up the country" and also how elected head of states do not "fuck up" countries.
"Have you ever read Wealth of Nations?"
Not all of it, just the major parts when I was studying economics.
"Smith explains quite clearly, over and over, that nobility and gov't worked in tandem. And it wasn't just limited to local gov't, either. Workers were punished for protests or strikes, and the few nobles who held a great deal of power easily and quite often worked together in their collective interests to hold the workers down, and (whenever the situation would warrant it) the state would facilitate such effort"
I'll have to agree with you, but those values which were enforced at that time were equally spread across the globe.
And interestingly enough, our country with a constitutional monarchy has clearly moved on from those times, but what you've just described is almost identical to the economic and political situation in your nation with a democratic republic
""I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
Sorry, it seems that my claim was incorrect and that you are indeed correct , my mistake entirely.
"Our president is elected once every 4 years and is only the head of 1 of our 3 branches that keep themselves in check. "
I am well aware of this as I'm studying American politics.
"I've never heard of any american being called "unpatriotic" for dissing the president."
Doesn't mean it is improbable.
"I should be surprised that you said that, but sadly I'm not."
I'm surprised to hear that you apparently know me so well, considering that this is (from what I believe) our first debate against one another.
"They're iconic of a much more brutal history that the masses have largely forgotten or ignored."
Please expand on why the British monarchy has a brutal history.
And please explain how the monarchy of the UK has "fucked up the country" and also how elected head of states do not "fuck up" countries.
"had", not "has".
I was being very very particular about saying that. Your country is faring well at this point (I've said this before), but what I'm referring to is the time period of the past, not both.
Also, elected heads of state are beyond the discussion. I'm referring to what the monarchy had done wrong, not what the elected states may or may not have done right.
And interestingly enough, our country with a constitutional monarchy has clearly moved on from those times,
I'm not saying that it hasn't now, just that it hasn't always and once even exacerbated the problem.
but what you've just described is almost identical to the economic and political situation in your nation with a democratic republic
Again, you are responding to criticism with more criticism (tu quoque), and with criticism that isn't entirely correct.
But, to address your point directly, this hasn't been the case in US ever, except during wartime or when there has been clear violence in such protests.
Doesn't mean it is improbable.
That's exactly what it is, although even "improbable" is an understatement.
It just doesn't, it's never been played up by even the most liberal news outlets as "unpatriotic" to criticize Obama, or by the most conservative ones to call criticism of say Bush to be unpatriotic.
I'm surprised to hear that you apparently know me so well, considering that this is (from what I believe) our first debate against one another.
This is our second, I believe. And it was a US vs UK style thing (and I'm not talking about the other one at the moment). It's not like it matters, one learns at lot more people through their experiences reading their comments than say the few conversations in proportion. Moving on..
It's not only improbable, it's downright inconsistent with the even the most polarized media outlets.
Please expand on why the British monarchy has a brutal history.
Really? I can just pull up a few articles here and there, and list a few instances in detail (monarchs killing wives, backing religious persecution and war with Ireland being direct traumas). I'll do it if you want, though.
-I apologize for getting short with you :( I was having a bad day and now re-reading my comments I realize that I was not myself.-
France went through 5 revolutions filled with horror and bloodshed, you really want that to happen to Great Britain to solve of problem that doesn't exist?
Which was only something that happened due to the time period. And removing the Royal Family doesn't not resolve that issue either, even the American Republic continued slavery long after the British abolished it.
See, why should the tax payer be paying for Charles' holiday's, at a time when the prime minister is encouraging people to live in only one room in the house, so that way you save n heating bills, as gas prices have gone up by another 9%.
Is that fair? To have the elderly freezing to death in badly maintained nursing homes whilst being mistreated by under-payed, under-qualified staff, while the queen's dogs get a manicure?!
I don't have very strong feelings either way buuuuut:
Costs alone do not determine profitability.
They also generate a ton of revenue through tourism, souvenirs, and even magazines. You're going to have to prove that the costs exceed revenue to a degree that should compel the UK to get rid of them.
Yeah, get rid of them. The only reason to look at England is to see the Royal Baby. If we can make him not royal any more, England can be irrelevant again.
England does exist separately, it is its own country which happens to be part of the united kingdom, the same way Northern Ireland is still part of Ireland even though its also part of the UK
I believe the fellow member was referring to how England does not have its own sovereignty and how ignorant it is for our American friend to refer to Great Britain as England.
Uhhh... are you actually saying that Britain is more relevant than the US? LOL! I hope you enjoy our TV shows, movies, websites... actually, the internet in general, restaurants, food, stores, books, music, iPads, iPhones, anything Microsoft related, etc.
We have an enormous influence on your lives. Sure, you guys have your fair share of important products and inventions, but go ahead and travel around the world and tell me which country seems to be more relevant. Britain or the US?
"Uhhh... are you actually saying that Britain is more relevant than the US? LOL! I hope you enjoy our TV shows, movies, websites... actually, the internet in general, "
Says the guy speaking our language, watching television invented by the British, and American shows which were stolen from British shows. Using the World Wide Web, verbally defecating on our grammar, spelling and literacy. Using light bulbs, telephones, toothbrushes, kettles, bicycles, photography, tins, ATMs, vacuum cleaners and several other developments which were all invented by Britons.
You seriously have the audacity to claim all these things of sole American origin? Has your country blinded you into such nationalist arrogance?
I have never met an individual who has claimed that their nation is the provider of all music or restaurants or food for that matter. Let alone literature and commerce as well.
Sure, Apple and Microsoft are undeniably American companies, but your culture is just a pick and mix of the Old World, with us being the primary influence.
"We have an enormous influence on your lives."
We created your nation, I doubt there is any greater influence.
" Sure, you guys have your fair share of important products and inventions,"
But clearly our inventions are insignificant to the American invention of "food".
", but go ahead and travel around the world and tell me which country seems to be more relevant. Britain or the US?"
Let's look at the globe shall we?
Britain has invaded 90% of the globe, we have shaped and defined nearly all the nations on this planet, including yours. We physically owned a quarter of of the world's landmass and governed over a great percentage of its population, the sun literally did not set on our Empire for a century.
Our sole influence has led to English being one of the most dominant languages speakable, democratic values being widespread, capitalism being the primary economic system and the very borders of the nations in the continent of Africa.
The only reason your country is as powerful as it is today is because we had to fight two whole World Wars while the USA profited at the start and joined in towards the end.
And if you persist in the question on which country is more relevant between our two, I would have to say the United States of America on the parallel that in the 9/11 attacks, I'm sure the madman doing the threatening was more relevant than the fellow flying the plane.
Well, no shit! We have British roots. Did you expect a bunch of Brits to settle America and then come up with a new language?
watching television invented by the British
Sorry buddy, but the Brits didn't invent the television. Rather it was a compilation of different inventions that went into the television. The one to put it all together was an American.
American shows which were stolen from British shows
How about all the British shows based off of American shows? I can give you a list if you want...
Using the World Wide Web
Which wouldn't exist without the internet.
verbally defecating on our grammar
Oh man... color! We need more U's! Where are the fucking U's, those American bastards!? LOL what do you want to do, take credit for our language or complain about it?
spelling and literacy
Eye dohnt no wut ur talking abowt.
Using light bulbs
You mean the invention that we improved and made what it is today?
telephones
Alexander Graham Bell may have been born in Scotland, but he was an American citizen.
toothbrushes
Wow... you guys were the ones who invented the stick with bristles on the end of it? Well, cool! We were the ones who improved upon it and started mass-producing it. Hey, what kind of toothpaste do you use? I bet it's Colgate... that damn American brand!
kettles
Wait... you're Chinese?
bicycles
Oh... so you're French now?
photography
Also a French invention.
tins
Doesn't seem like a very difficult invention... especially since that was an invention based off of another French idea. At least we made it a little easier when we invented the can opener.
vacuum cleaners
The Brit who invented that got the idea from an American. He even admitted it, but he got the patent and then we made the modern vacuum cleaner, once again improving off of something of yours... which was kind of our idea to begin with, but on a side note... Dyson vacuum cleaners are pretty cool, which are obviously British.
You seriously have the audacity to claim all these things of sole American origin?
Damn... I didn't complain about all the shit that you just listed.
Has your country blinded you into such nationalist arrogance?
Lol wtf? Do you think I'm taking credit for the invention of all of that stuff? No, I'm pointing out how our entertainment and food industry have a HUGE effect on your country. Can you deny that? Well, you probably will... but you'd be wrong.
I have never met an individual who has claimed that their nation is the provider of all music or restaurants or food for that matter. Let alone literature and commerce as well.
Oh, good grief. Please tell me that you're just pretending to be dumb. I was talking about exports, not inventions.
Sure, Apple and Microsoft are undeniably American companies, but your culture is just a pick and mix of the Old World, with us being the primary influence.
Not anymore!
We created your nation, I doubt there is any greater influence.
No, you settled in North America. We kicked your asses out and created our nation. The founding fathers were American born with British heritage.
But clearly our inventions are insignificant to the American invention of "food".
Yeah, that comment will probably seem pretty stupid once you read this.
Britain has invaded 90% of the globe, we have shaped and defined nearly all the nations on this planet, including yours. We physically owned a quarter of of the world's landmass and governed over a great percentage of its population, the sun literally did not set on our Empire for a century.
And now look at you!
Our sole influence has led to English being one of the most dominant languages speakable, democratic values being widespread, capitalism being the primary economic system and the very borders of the nations in the continent of Africa.
You do realize that you didn't invent the English language, right? It formed over time out of a combination of other languages.
The only reason your country is as powerful as it is today is because we had to fight two whole World Wars while the USA profited at the start and joined in towards the end.
We aren't European. Do you really want to complain about how we didn't help you enough? The bad guys lost the war. You seem to forget that Germany and Italy declared war on us just a few days after we were attacked by Japan.
"Well, no shit! We have British roots. Did you expect a bunch of Brits to settle America and then come up with a new language?"
Well then I fail to see why on Earth you claimed that your nation had a greater influence on us than we did on you. Of course it's obvious, but you're the person arguing from a ridiculous point of view.
"Sorry buddy, but the Brits didn't invent the television. Rather it was a compilation of different inventions that went into the television. The one to put it all together was an American."
Coming from the guy who claimed America invented the internet. And anyway, John Logie Baird is accredited with inventing the world's first television.
"How about all the British shows based off of American shows? I can give you a list if you want..."
You could, but my list would be longer.
"Which wouldn't exist without the internet."
And how would you use the internet without the world wide web?
"Oh man... color! We need more U's! Where are the fucking U's, those American bastards!? LOL what do you want to do, take credit for our language or complain about it?"
What do you mean your language, I think you'll find English belongs to England and your nation's snide attempts to change small spellings and grammatical rules doesn't make it a brand new dialect.
"Eye dohnt no wut ur talking abowt."
Well at least one of us has the brain capacity to appropriately refute an answer.
"You mean the invention that we improved and made what it is today?"
No, I'm talking about the invention we invented. There's a clue in the name.
"Alexander Graham Bell may have been born in Scotland, but he was an American citizen."
He was born and educated in Britain, he would not have been able to invented the telephone if it wasn't for all the scientific knowledge he gained in Britain.
"Wow... you guys were the ones who invented the stick with bristles on the end of it? Well, cool! We were the ones who improved upon it and started mass-producing it. Hey, what kind of toothpaste do you use? I bet it's Colgate... that damn American brand!"
You didn't invent toothpaste though, and for a matter of fact, I do not use Colgate.
"Wait... you're Chinese?"
"The first electric kettle with a submersible heating element was invented in 1922 by Arthur Leslie Large of Birmingham, England." Wikipedia
Unless of course your nation is so backwards that you still use the old iron kettle and thus thought that was what I was referring to.
"Oh... so you're French now?"
I'm sure somewhere in ancient history the French did indeed invent a mobility device with two wheels, but the bicycle as we know it today was invented by a Briton.
"Also a French invention."
They may have invented the camera, but we invented the practice and the art.
"Doesn't seem like a very difficult invention... especially since that was an invention based off of another French idea."
Well considering that mass produced tins are easier to make that hand-blown glass I would say it revolutionised food manufacturing.
"At least we made it a little easier when we invented the can opener."
Well, clearly you Americans struggle with using knives.
Anyway, you clearly enjoyed yourself going through that list. So I'll give you another one of British inventions.
"Damn... I didn't complain about all the shit that you just listed."
I wasn't the one being dumb enough to claim my country invented "stores".
"Lol wtf? Do you think I'm taking credit for the invention of all of that stuff? No, I'm pointing out how our entertainment and food industry have a HUGE effect on your country. Can you deny that? Well, you probably will... but you'd be wrong."
I like all that evidence you don't have.
"Oh, good grief. Please tell me that you're just pretending to be dumb. I was talking about exports, not inventions."
Ha! Now that makes even less sense, your country export "resteraunts" does it? Those Italian Bistros or Austrian coffee houses all come from America do they?
And what about music, I suppose now the US exports Vivaldi and Beethoven now? Maybe the Beetles are actually American too and they were "exported" to Britain.
"Not anymore!"
Like all that evidence you don't have.
"Yeah, that comment will probably seem pretty stupid once you read this."
No, it just makes you look like you've desperately tried to change your argument. I'm sure a 3rd party would agree with me on this one.
"No, you settled in North America. We kicked your asses out and created our nation. The founding fathers were American born with British heritage."
Now this will be interesting, how exactly did you "kick [our] arses out"?
"And now look at you!"
Yes, our country did do all those things. Are you going to properly dispute the argument or just dodge the points I keep making.
"You do realize that you didn't invent the English language, right? It formed over time out of a combination of other languages."
You do realise that I didn't say anything along those lines at all and in fact you've responded to a completely different point I did not make.
"We aren't European."
There's a reason they don't call it a European war.
"Do you really want to complain about how we didn't help you enough? The bad guys lost the war. You seem to forget that Germany and Italy declared war on us just a few days after we were attacked by Japan."
I'm not complaining I'm just stating the facts. It's an awfully big coincidence that in both World Wars the US jumps on our side as soon as we start winning.
But I suppose that's typical coming from a nation that hasn't won a war on it's own.
Well then I fail to see why on Earth you claimed that your nation had a greater influence on us than we did on you. Of course it's obvious, but you're the person arguing from a ridiculous point of view.
We do, currently.
Coming from the guy who claimed America invented the internet. And anyway, John Logie Baird is accredited with inventing the world's first television.
Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn are credited as the inventors of the Internet. They're both American.
The first fully functional television was invented by Philo Farnsworth, also an American.
You could, but my list would be longer.
Half of the British shows, that were remade for America didn't even last past a few episodes. Most of the ones that did are actually starring the Brits from the original show (ex. Hell's Kitchen, Kitchen Nightmares, The Office (although it didn't star Ricky Gervais, it was produced by him) The Weakest Link, all of those shows produced by Simon Cowell, etc.). It seems to me like Brits are actually the one's behind most of the Americanized British shows.
And how would you use the internet without the world wide web?
Then we obviously rely on each other's inventions, don't we?
What do you mean your language, I think you'll find English belongs to England and your nation's snide attempts to change small spellings and grammatical rules doesn't make it a brand new dialect.
You sure do jump to the worst of conclusions when you read stuff, don't you? I said "our" as in you and me, Britain and America.
Well at least one of us has the brain capacity to appropriately refute an answer.
I don't know, man... I've been having to point out a lot of your misinterpretations...
No, I'm talking about the invention we invented. There's a clue in the name.
What do you use more? The practical household light bulb or the impractical lamp? I would imagine that it's the household bulb invented by Thomas Edison.
He was born and educated in Britain, he would not have been able to invented the telephone if it wasn't for all the scientific knowledge he gained in Britain.
Maybe, but he was still an American citizen. You have to wonder why he moved to America to unveil his invention and didn't just stay in Britain.
You didn't invent toothpaste though, and for a matter of fact, I do not use Colgate.
Well, fuck. You probably use a different American brand, right?
The first electric kettle with a submersible heating element was invented in 1922 by Arthur Leslie Large of Birmingham, England." Wikipedia
Not the first kettle though. If you want to take credit for improvements, then you have to give America credit for most of the inventions that you listed.
Unless of course your nation is so backwards that you still use the old iron kettle and thus thought that was what I was referring to.
You do realize you're talking to an American, right? We don't use kettles like the English do. If you were talking about an electric kettle, then maybe you should have said so.
I'm sure somewhere in ancient history the French did indeed invent a mobility device with two wheels, but the bicycle as we know it today was invented by a Briton.
Once again, talking about improvements... which I admit, I have been doing too, but if that's how you want to play it, then you owe America a lot of credit.
They may have invented the camera, but we invented the practice and the art.
Lol oh boy, you guys were the ones who invented pressing the button?
Well considering that mass produced tins are easier to make that hand-blown glass I would say it revolutionised food manufacturing.
I'll give you credit for commercializing tin cans, that's fine.
Well, clearly you Americans struggle with using knives.
Guns, not knives lol. You guys are the ones that shouldn't be left alone with sharp objects... hints, a particular decapitation in a public place.
Anyway, you clearly enjoyed yourself going through that list. So I'll give you another one of British inventions.
I did. I learned about a lot of French inventions.
I wasn't the one being dumb enough to claim my country invented "stores".
Damn! You still think I was talking about the invention of stores? LOL! Commercialization, exports, etc. Not inventions, products really. Stuff that is American and plays a big role in Britain. You pretty much listed inventions for no reason...
I like all that evidence you don't have.
Experience would be one.
No, it just makes you look like you've desperately tried to change your argument. I'm sure a 3rd party would agree with me on this one.
They'd be dumb too. You actually thought I was taking credit for the invention of food. LOL! Come on, man! I know you aren't that slow!
Now this will be interesting, how exactly did you "kick [our] arses out"?
America isn't a British nation, is it? You lost the Revolutionary, didn't you? I can't wait to hear you repeat the same old "you had help from the French, blah, blah, blah!". So what? That brings us back to your WW2 complaint. If you're all for fighting it alone, then don't complain about how it took us a while to help you out in WW2.
Ha! Now that makes even less sense, your country export "resteraunts" does it? Those Italian Bistros or Austrian coffee houses all come from America do they?
Sorry, skipped over this one. Exports and businesses. Our products and businesses are pretty big over in your country.
And what about music, I suppose now the US exports Vivaldi and Beethoven now? Maybe the Beetles are actually American too and they were "exported" to Britain.
Doesn't hide the fact that our music is big over in Britain. British artists are big here too.
Yes, our country did do all those things. Are you going to properly dispute the argument or just dodge the points I keep making.
I didn't dodge anything, you just didn't take the proper meaning out of my comment. I'll rephrase it... "now look at your small country, whose claim to fame is the past!".
You do realise that I didn't say anything along those lines at all and in fact you've responded to a completely different point I did not make.
Did you not take credit for the English language and get on me for Americans using "your" language?
There's a reason they don't call it a European war.
It didn't really become a World War until Japan attacked us and we got involved, did it?
I'm not complaining I'm just stating the facts. It's an awfully big coincidence that in both World Wars the US jumps on our side as soon as we start winning.
We jumped on your side because the enemy (your enemy) declared war on us.
But I suppose that's typical coming from a nation that hasn't won a war on it's own.
You do what? You have this bad habit of debating in some fantasy context where everything you write down makes sense.
"Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn are credited as the inventors of the Internet. They're both American."
But their internet would be useless without the World Wide Web, its like the inventor of the road claiming credit for inventing the car.
"The first fully functional television was invented by Philo Farnsworth, also an American."
"John Logie Baird FRSE (14 August 1888 – 14 June 1946) was a Scottish scientist, engineer, innovator and inventor of the world's first television; Wikipedia.
"Half of the British shows, that were remade for America didn't even last past a few episodes. Most of the ones that did are actually starring the Brits from the original show (ex. Hell's Kitchen, Kitchen Nightmares, The Office (although it didn't star Ricky Gervais, it was produced by him) The Weakest Link, all of those shows produced by Simon Cowell, etc.). It seems to me like Brits are actually the one's behind most of the Americanized British shows."
You list a few cheap shows which are virtual pig feed on this side of the pond. What you've claimed is impossible to prove or disprove which is why I didn't hesitate to make an equally outrageous claim. We can sit here and list TV shows for all eternity or you can come up with some arguments that you can actually support with more evidence that your "experience".
"Then we obviously rely on each other's inventions, don't we?"
Like the car relying on the road.
"You sure do jump to the worst of conclusions when you read stuff, don't you? I said "our" as in you and me, Britain and America."
Then clearly someone needs to be more clear when using their pronouns.
"I don't know, man... I've been having to point out a lot of your misinterpretations..."
Well you're the one who writes in sarcasm.
"What do you use more? The practical household light bulb or the impractical lamp? I would imagine that it's the household bulb invented by Thomas Edison."
What do you use more the internet or the world wide web? I would imagine it was the world wide web invented by Sir Tim Berners-Lee.
"Maybe, but he was still an American citizen. You have to wonder why he moved to America to unveil his invention and didn't just stay in Britain."
Maybe you could do your pondering elsewhere and I'll wait until you write an argument.
Here's a hint, to find out answers to questions it helps if you use Google.
"Well, fuck. You probably use a different American brand, right?"
I fail to see why my toothpaste is relevant to this debate.
"Not the first kettle though. If you want to take credit for improvements, then you have to give America credit for most of the inventions that you listed."
No, you are correct. The British clearly did not invent boiling water, so the invention of the electric kettle is a minor improvement compared to that caveman with a clay bowl over a fire.
"Guns, not knives lol. You guys are the ones that shouldn't be left alone with sharp objects... hints, a particular decapitation in a public place."
Sorry, I'm sure there have been a multitude of decapitations throughout our history, could you please narrow down the event from the two millennia time frame you originally placed it in.
"I did. I learned about a lot of French inventions."
So you're not going to look at the list at all, nice way of debating, ignore the evidence that doesn't agree with you.
"Damn! You still think I was talking about the invention of stores? LOL! Commercialization, exports, etc. Not inventions, products really. Stuff that is American and plays a big role in Britain. You pretty much listed inventions for no reason..."
Can you please write as if you had an education, I've no idea what your point is but apparently there is some magical American thing that "plays a big role in Britain" and it's got something to do with commercialisation.
"Experience would be one."
What experience? Where you there at the American revolution then?
From what I gather your "experience" consists of an individual who spent their lives watching American nationalist films and probably never left the country.
"They'd be dumb too. You actually thought I was taking credit for the invention of food. LOL! Come on, man! I know you aren't that slow!"
It appears to me that we are not debating on whether Britain should keep the Royal Family, though I'm alright with that change in topic. But neither are we debating on whether America is greater than Britain, we are debating on what the ruddy fuck you keep saying because you debate in a manner of ridiculous claims and sarcastic responses, if you continue to fail at speaking plain English then I cannot see this debate continuing.
"America isn't a British nation, is it?"
Neither is Canada, but Canada do not make claims to kicking our arses.
"You lost the Revolutionary, didn't you? I can't wait to hear you repeat the same old "you had help from the French, blah, blah, blah!"."
So you don't like me telling you facts? Are you afraid I'll shatter that closed mind of yours and ruin some fantasy where some small time American colonists unite for the good of the common man against an evil empire which heavily taxes them for no reason whatsover?
And I find it amusing that you claim I'll repeat the "same old" story, Mr "We kick your arses blah blah blah"
"So what?"
You've just admitted that your claims can be disproven and your reply is "so what"? Is that it? Are you going to continue blatantly ignoring the facts and live is some dream world?
"That brings us back to your WW2 complaint. If you're all for fighting it alone, then don't complain about how it took us a while to help you out in WW2."
I'm not complaining that you arrived late, I'm complaining that your nation takes far to much credit for the war in which they had a minimal amount of contribution to winning.
"Sorry, skipped over this one. Exports and businesses. Our products and businesses are pretty big over in your country."
I like all that evidence you don't have.
"Doesn't hide the fact that our music is big over in Britain. British artists are big here too."
Do you get all these points from Sunday magazines or something?
"I didn't dodge anything, you just didn't take the proper meaning out of my comment. I'll rephrase it... "now look at your small country, whose claim to fame is the past!"."
I just like to rub it in that my country has a past.
"Did you not take credit for the English language and get on me for Americans using "your" language?"
Sorry, I'm completely baffled on trying to work out what it is that you're thinking when you write these responses. I'll just try iron out this little sub-debate.
You asked me which country was more relevant I stated that Britain's actions "led to English being one of the most dominant languages speakable, democratic values being widespread, capitalism being the primary economic system and the very borders of the nations in the continent of Africa."
Your response was: "You do realize that you didn't invent the English language, right? It formed over time out of a combination of other languages."
Of which I then failed to see the dispute (or the relevance) to my original point, you randomly claim that the English did not invent the English language and completely ignore my dispute to your claim that Britain had no relevance in the world.
"It didn't really become a World War until Japan attacked us and we got involved, did it?"
Well in that case it wasn't a World War at all because Switzerland didn't get involved.
"We jumped on your side because the enemy (your enemy) declared war on us."
The USA were conscripting men for the war long before Japan declared war on them.
"It's a good thing we have allies, huh?"
Not when they turn up late for the biggest conflicts in history.
You do what? You have this bad habit of debating in some fantasy context where everything you write down makes sense.
It should! If it doesn't then you're an idiot. Read your question, then read my answer. If you're still lost, then that's your problem... not mine.
But their internet would be useless without the World Wide Web, its like the inventor of the road claiming credit for inventing the car.
And the World Wide Web would be useless without the internet. Did you skip over the part where I said that we rely on each other's inventions?
"John Logie Baird FRSE (14 August 1888 – 14 June 1946) was a Scottish scientist, engineer, innovator and inventor of the world's first television; Wikipedia.
If you get all of your facts from Wikipedia, then you really are ignorant. You do know how Wikipedia works, right?
You list a few cheap shows which are virtual pig feed on this side of the pond. What you've claimed is impossible to prove or disprove which is why I didn't hesitate to make an equally outrageous claim. We can sit here and list TV shows for all eternity or you can come up with some arguments that you can actually support with more evidence that your "experience".
I assume that those American shows that are remakes of British shows are aired in Britain too. If I go online and look at the Box Office Index for the UK, the top movies are all American. Our entertainment is one of our greatest exports and it's huge over there. Am I wrong?
Like the car relying on the road.
Sure, except the Web depends on the Internet in order to work, where as a car doesn't need a road.
Then clearly someone needs to be more clear when using their pronouns.
I really shouldn't have to. It should have been obvious.
Well you're the one who writes in sarcasm.
You come off so naïve, that it's hard not to.
What do you use more the internet or the world wide web? I would imagine it was the world wide web invented by Sir Tim Berners-Lee
Well, like I said... without the Internet, you wouldn't have the Web. The Web is basically an application on the Internet.
Here's a hint, to find out answers to questions it helps if you use Google.
You're starting to sound desperate. I must be winning this debate.
I fail to see why my toothpaste is relevant to this debate.
To show the role that American products play in your everyday life.
No, you are correct. The British clearly did not invent boiling water, so the invention of the electric kettle is a minor improvement compared to that caveman with a clay bowl over a fire.
Oh, so it went from clay bowl to electric kettle? That was a major improvement then!
Sorry, I'm sure there have been a multitude of decapitations throughout our history, could you please narrow down the event from the two millennia time frame you originally placed it in.
So you're not going to look at the list at all, nice way of debating, ignore the evidence that doesn't agree with you.
What makes you think that I didn't look at the list?
Can you please write as if you had an education, I've no idea what your point is but apparently there is some magical American thing that "plays a big role in Britain" and it's got something to do with commercialisation.
Oh, come on! Are you a kid? You insult like one and comprehend information like one too. Go back and reread if you don't understand. This is another example of something that should be very obvious.
From what I gather your "experience" consists of an individual who spent their lives watching American nationalist films and probably never left the country.
That's funny, I've been getting the same vibe from you (except with Britain, not America, of course). You seem to have your head so far up your ass, I'd be surprised if you've ever left your bedroom. I don't know if you noticed, but my user pic is of a Brit. My favorite films, are British films. I would almost rather live in Europe, than the US... but that's because I'm a history nut and you guys have a much more colorful history than us. I have pride in my country though. It's where I grew up. It makes me sick to read the garbage coming from some of the British users, who act like they know how America really is. You don't live here, I do. You say we're full of nationalist propaganda... and now I'm starting to think that British children are getting a faulty anti-American education. It seems like the nationalism is much stronger in Britain, than in America. Yeah, our government consists of a bunch of assholes... but yours is just as corrupt. You're blind if you don't see that.
But neither are we debating on whether America is greater than Britain, we are debating on what the ruddy fuck you keep saying because you debate in a manner of ridiculous claims and sarcastic responses, if you continue to fail at speaking plain English then I cannot see this debate continuing.
Ugh... you're obviously just trying to shift it to look like I'm the one fucking up here. If you don't want to admit that you made a dumb misinterpretation of my comment, then that's fine.
Neither is Canada, but Canada do not make claims to kicking our arses.
Canada still swears allegiance to the Queen, if you haven't noticed.
So you don't like me telling you facts? Are you afraid I'll shatter that closed mind of yours and ruin some fantasy where some small time American colonists unite for the good of the common man against an evil empire which heavily taxes them for no reason whatsover?
Hmmm... so you have a history where you guys are the good guys and we have a history where we're the good guys... and that's surprising to you? Ever think that maybe it's your information that's fucked up?
And I find it amusing that you claim I'll repeat the "same old" story, Mr "We kick your arses blah blah blah"
Oh, so you must remember the Revolutionary War. Did you serve in it? Maybe you're older than I thought... but the history that I and the rest of the World knows, is that you lost the Revolutionary War.
I'm not complaining that you arrived late, I'm complaining that your nation takes far to much credit for the war in which they had a minimal amount of contribution to winning.
We were the Allied Forces. You should really start viewing us as one team during that period, because that's how it was. The United States was the largest supplier of material. In return, you guys helped train a lot of our troops. Your role was crucial to the victory of WW2, but we do deserve credit. Some say, ours and Russia's roles in the War is what made us world superpowers.
I like all that evidence you don't have.
Am I wrong? You're British, you tell me.
Do you get all these points from Sunday magazines or something?
Sunday magazine? Is that a British thing?
I just like to rub it in that my country has a past.
Yeah... and that's one reason why I really like your country, so stop ruining it! lol
Of which I then failed to see the dispute (or the relevance) to my original point, you randomly claim that the English did not invent the English language and completely ignore my dispute to your claim that Britain had no relevance in the world.
Okay, fair enough. What happened was I saw that you mentioned the English language again and remembered a point I wanted to make earlier. The comment itself, shouldn't have been confusing though.
Well in that case it wasn't a World War at all because Switzerland didn't get involved.
I think it had more to do with the amount of countries from across the globe, rather than the countries themselves.
The USA were conscripting men for the war long before Japan declared war on them.
Yeah, as Germany was conquering France. We were getting prepared.
Not when they turn up late for the biggest conflicts in history.
Again, we didn't turn up late. We were attacked. We arrived to our war on time... not until we arrived in Europe, did we become the Allied Forces. We were supplying Britain with material before then.
"It should! If it doesn't then you're an idiot. Read your question, then read my answer. If you're still lost, then that's your problem... not mine."
Here's my response: "Fuck you sideways".
And before you complain that it doesn't make any sense here's my response after your next argument:
"It should! If it doesn't then you're an idiot. Read your question, then read my answer. If you're still lost, then that's your problem... not mine."
Now I've saved us both some time.
"And the World Wide Web would be useless without the internet. Did you skip over the part where I said that we rely on each other's inventions?"
Maybe you should address the whole argument before you start to reference the later parts of it.
"If you get all of your facts from Wikipedia, then you really are ignorant."
Well down my road there is a museum, in this museum is an exhibit specifically about John Logie Baird and the invention of the television. Now I've seen the exhibit and I know what it states to be true but copy and pasting a museum is pretty difficult and so I'll have to source from Wikipedia. Unless of course, you can find a more reliable source that covers nearly all knowledge.
"You do know how Wikipedia works, right?"
What? The concept that anyone can create a page, change or edit it? Could you please explain how that differs from the rest of the internet?
That's a stupid argument, shall we take pictures of a calculator 50 years ago and take a picture of one made by Casio 5 years ago? Which one looks more like the modern calculator? Best we better accredit the Japanese for yet another invention.
"I assume that those American shows that are remakes of British shows are aired in Britain too. If I go online and look at the Box Office Index for the UK, the top movies are all American. Our entertainment is one of our greatest exports and it's huge over there. Am I wrong?"
Yes, you're right the popular trash for the masses over here in the UK is primarily American. I cannot disagree.
"Sure, except the Web depends on the Internet in order to work, where as a car doesn't need a road."
The Car needs something solid beneath it to work, it cannot drive across water. Likewise the World Wide Web was merely a model that needed a worldwide network to function. The internet sufficed.
"I really shouldn't have to. It should have been obvious."
Only in your little world.
"You come off so naïve, that it's hard not to."
Well I'm the one sitting here trying to decipher whether you're being sarcastic or actually are genuinely stupid and it's starting to become very difficult.
"You're starting to sound desperate. I must be winning this debate."
You do love dodging questions even when you ask them yourself.
I suppose I'll answer it for you, Alexander Graham Bell moved to North America because his father was in Newfoundland and was dying, that's the sole reason he left Great Britain. Thus, you haven't successfully refuted my point that Alexander Graham Bell was a British inventor.
"To show the role that American products play in your everyday life."
What language is it you speak again?
"Oh, so it went from clay bowl to electric kettle? That was a major improvement then!"
You've had 20 alone within Obama's administration.
"What makes you think that I didn't look at the list?"
Maybe you did look at the list but the fact is that you avoided addressing it.
"Oh, come on! Are you a kid? You insult like one and comprehend information like one too. Go back and reread if you don't understand. This is another example of something that should be very obvious."
Oh dear, this is Nummi all over again. Someone you can't properly write arguments and refuses to explain the mess it is they call literacy.
"That's funny, I've been getting the same vibe from you (except with Britain, not America, of course). You seem to have your head so far up your ass, I'd be surprised if you've ever left your bedroom."
I have been to; France, Spain, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Holland, China and Hong Kong.
I have indeed left my bedroom.
" I don't know if you noticed, but my user pic is of a Brit. "
My user picture is a penguin, am I an Antarctican? Am I suddenly aware of the plight of penguins?
"My favorite films, are British films. I would almost rather live in Europe, than the US..."
Sorry, next time I debate with someone I'll make sure I stalk them first. Just so I make sure not to make incorrect claims on their interests or hobbies.
"...but that's because I'm a history nut and you guys have a much more colorful history than us. "
I also like my fair share of history and I also watch a fair amount of American films. Which is why I get annoyed at films like "The Patriot" and "U-571" which actively distort history (at my country's expense) to fuel the fetish that is American nationalism.
"I have pride in my country though. It's where I grew up. It makes me sick to read the garbage coming from some of the British users, who act like they know how America really is. You don't live here, I do."
We're not the ones starting these debates. If I remember correctly this was just a nice debate about the Royal family and then you joined in.
"You say we're full of nationalist propaganda... and now I'm starting to think that British children are getting a faulty anti-American education."
If anything we get a pro-American education. The only thing that makes us Anti-american is when we see Americans saying 'Our country was fought against an empire or tyranny and created a nation of freedom, equality (etc).' a statement which itself is an insult to history. I get annoyed when everytime I see an American politician talking about how their nation apparently is the only one which stands for equality of opportunity or economic individualism, or when I find out that the USA is arrogant enough to spy on their neighbours, or when American companies who own businesses in my nation come to my government and say 'Sorry we're not paying any taxes here, but you see we only pay taxes to the US government'.
But then to top it off, we had the BP oil spill. An accident. Which resulted in huge Anti-British protests in the US where Americans set fire to the Union Jack. Or when our own Prime Minister, after meeting with President Obama, goes on television and states that 'Britain must admit that they were a junior partner in the Second World War'.
"It seems like the nationalism is much stronger in Britain, than in America."
And you base this of two guys on a website? Trust me, nationalism is next to non-existent in the UK, the stupid racist groups like the EDL and BNP ruined it for us.
"Yeah, our government consists of a bunch of assholes... but yours is just as corrupt. You're blind if you don't see that."
Our government isn't constantly in the pay of whichever company has enough money to do so. I look at my country and I look at yours. Mine has a decent minimum wage, law enforced working conditions, free healthcare (etc). You remember all that food you claim the US export to Britain? We only see a minority of your 'edible' products because the rest of it is deemed by my government to be "unfit for human consumption". We have a chain of supermarkets here called Asda, it's owned by Walmart, but can't be called Walmart because they are run in completely different ways, solely because we have health and safety laws protecting employees here in the UK.
So when I hear that the US still encourages its children to stand up and pledge allegiance to their 'great' country. Could you please explain what on Earth it is they're pledging allegiance to?
"Canada still swears allegiance to the Queen, if you haven't noticed."
Well, maybe I should have said Australia.
"Hmmm... so you have a history where you guys are the good guys and we have a history where we're the good guys... and that's surprising to you? Ever think that maybe it's your information that's fucked up?"
Well, you've yet to provide evidence for your claim that the U.S 'kicked our arses' and now you want me to provide evidence on my statement?
"Oh, so you must remember the Revolutionary War. Did you serve in it?"
Why would I have to had served in the Revolutionary War to read a history book?
"Maybe you're older than I thought... but the history that I and the rest of the World knows, is that you lost the Revolutionary War."
You lost Vietnam, the whole world knows you lost the Vietnam War. Would you agree that the Vietnamese kicked your arses?
"We were the Allied Forces. You should really start viewing us as one team during that period, because that's how it was."
I like how the allied forces were represented in the film "Saving Private Ryan". I counted a grand total of 0 non-American allied troops. It especially stung when you replaced all the British amphibious landing craft with American transport on the D-Day opening scene, but then again you wouldn't want to hurt that precious American nationalism.
"The United States was the largest supplier of material."
Congratulations on not fighting!
"In return, you guys helped train a lot of our troops. Your role was crucial to the victory of WW2, but we do deserve credit."
Not the amount you claim to.
"Some say, ours and Russia's roles in the War is what made us world superpowers."
Yours and Russia lack of role in the War is what made you world superpowers. You had plenty of time to build up your industry and economy while the largest Empire in the world was fighting one of the greatest wars known to man, alone.
What certainly made your nation a superpower is all that material 'supplied' us was actually a loan, my nation only finished paying it back a few years ago.
And then we get bombarded with "kicked your arses in the Revolutionary War" instead of 'thanks for helping us become a major world power'.
"Am I wrong? You're British, you tell me."
I already disputed it, I'm not going to claim that there a no American businesses here at all, but they certainly do not have the influence you claimed they did at the start.
And anyway, any American influence here is probably matched over there, but I'm sure you'll see in the list of countries I've visited the U.S wasn't one of them.
"Yeah... and that's one reason why I really like your country, so stop ruining it! lol"
Well, your country already does like to tarnish history with prime examples being the films I listed earlier.
"Okay, fair enough. What happened was I saw that you mentioned the English language again and remembered a point I wanted to make earlier. The comment itself, shouldn't have been confusing though."
Well I'll address your new point then, How can you claim that the English Language was not invented by the English?
"I think it had more to do with the amount of countries from across the globe, rather than the countries themselves."
Well in that case, it was already a World War before the US joined, we already had Canada making up for North America.
"Yeah, as Germany was conquering France. We were getting prepared."
But I thought you said that the World Wars were a European conflict and your nation did not want to get involved.
"Again, we didn't turn up late. We were attacked. We arrived to our war on time... not until we arrived in Europe, did we become the Allied Forces. We were supplying Britain with material before then."
Well the fact that your President hated our Empire and actively abused the situation in World War II to try to destroy it.
(Since you dislike my sourcing of Wikipedia, here are two other links, I believe they are American websites)
Maybe you should address the whole argument before you start to reference the later parts of it.
Yeah, for some reason I thought I had said it sooner.
Well down my road there is a museum, in this museum is an exhibit specifically about John Logie Baird and the invention of the television.
How do I know that you aren't full of shit?
What? The concept that anyone can create a page, change or edit it? Could you please explain how that differs from the rest of the internet?
It means the information isn't always reliable.
That's a stupid argument, shall we take pictures of a calculator 50 years ago and take a picture of one made by Casio 5 years ago? Which one looks more like the modern calculator? Best we better accredit the Japanese for yet another invention.
You do know that saying that all of my arguments are "stupid", doesn't make you appear smarter, right?
If you look at a calculator from fifty years ago, you will see that it didn't look much different than today's. If you look at Farnsworth's improvement of Baird's television, you will see that it too, is not much different than the modern equivalent... unlike Baird's. A fifty year gap is a long time though, Farnsworth improved the television in only a few years.
Yes, you're right the popular trash for the masses over here in the UK is primarily American. I cannot disagree
Ha! By the way, I'm sorry that you guys have to deal with that garbage too lol.
The Car needs something solid beneath it to work, it cannot drive across water. Likewise the World Wide Web was merely a model that needed a worldwide network to function. The internet sufficed
In other words, I'm right.
Well I'm the one sitting here trying to decipher whether you're being sarcastic or actually are genuinely stupid and it's starting to become very difficult.
Lol let me know the results.
You do love dodging questions even when you ask them yourself.
If that were the case, then I wouldn't bother replying to every one of your points.
I suppose I'll answer it for you, Alexander Graham Bell moved to North America because his father was in Newfoundland and was dying, that's the sole reason he left Great Britain. Thus, you haven't successfully refuted my point that Alexander Graham Bell was a British inventor.
That's not why he moved to the U.S. His father moved his family to Ontario, Canada in the 1870's(Alexander Graham Bell included) and then later on moved to Washington, D.C. Bell accepted a teaching position in Boston, Massachusetts in 1871. He was inspired to build the telephone after reading an American newspaper ad in 1872 and even further inspired through lectures at MIT. Bell lived the majority of his life in the United States. So, yes... he was British born, but was inspired and created his invention in America.
What language is it you speak again?
'Murican.
You've had 20 alone within Obama's administration.
We're the third largest country on Earth. You're somewhere in the 40's if I remember correctly. Of course we're going to have more.
Maybe you did look at the list but the fact is that you avoided addressing it.
Why would I need to address it? You gave me a link, I clicked it. What more do you want?
I have been to; France, Spain, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Holland, China and Hong Kong.
Yet you act like you know more about my country than I do? I do admit though, I'm surprised that you've been to that many countries.
My user picture is a penguin, am I an Antarctican? Am I suddenly aware of the plight of penguins?
With a British flag behind it, right?
Sorry, next time I debate with someone I'll make sure I stalk them first. Just so I make sure not to make incorrect claims on their interests or hobbies.
You can be a dick, that's fine. Just showing you that I don't hold any bias against Britain the way you do America.
I also like my fair share of history and I also watch a fair amount of American films. Which is why I get annoyed at films like "The Patriot" and "U-571" which actively distort history (at my country's expense) to fuel the fetish that is American nationalism.
That's Hollywood for ya! Do you think all Americans like The Patriot? LOL! We're bright enough to know that it's a movie, not an accurate historical portrayal. There's a reason why it didn't say "Based on a True Story".
U571? The submarine movie? How did that movie portray your country in a negative light?
We're not the ones starting these debates. If I remember correctly this was just a nice debate about the Royal family and then you joined in.
It's a debate about the Royal Family, true... so why did you leave an argument attacking America? That's why I started disputing you.
If anything we get a pro-American education. The only thing that makes us Anti-american is when we see Americans saying 'Our country was fought against an empire or tyranny and created a nation of freedom, equality (etc).' a statement which itself is an insult to history.
It's not too far off. We know that Britain wasn't as evil as some people make them out to be, but we also know that taxation without representation was illegal. The colonists were not receiving their rights as Englishmen. Britain was tyrannical towards the colonists, which is what basically led to the war. I'm surprised that you despise Americans over something you weren't even a part of. We're each other's closest allies now... we should respect each other. You guys aren't the Britain you once were and we're not the America we once were.
I get annoyed when everytime I see an American politician talking about how their nation apparently is the only one which stands for equality of opportunity or economic individualism,
Hmmm... I doubt you ever heard that. If you have evidence to support that, would you mind sharing it with me?
or when I find out that the USA is arrogant enough to spy on their neighbours
Dude! American citizens are just as pissed off over that as you guys, maybe more. If you haven't noticed, our last two presidents haven't been the greatest... and in my opinion, the current one is probably the worst we've had since Nixon, actually... I think he's worse than Nixon.
when American companies who own businesses in my nation come to my government and say 'Sorry we're not paying any taxes here, but you see we only pay taxes to the US government'
The same thing happens with UK companies in America. The pay off would be the jobs we create in each other's country.
But then to top it off, we had the BP oil spill. An accident. Which resulted in huge Anti-British protests in the US where Americans set fire to the Union Jack.
You have to keep in mind that our country is HUGE. We have plenty of crazy ignorant shit-heads, but the normal civilized ones outweigh that population. The crazy ones are the ones who make the news.
Or when our own Prime Minister, after meeting with President Obama, goes on television and states that 'Britain must admit that they were a junior partner in the Second World War'.
Hmm... well, admit it! Lol jk. I look at us as equals, you may not... but I do. We were a team all brought together by a common enemy. WW2 strengthened our alliance, which should be something to be proud of.
And you base this of two guys on a website? Trust me, nationalism is next to non-existent in the UK, the stupid racist groups like the EDL and BNP ruined it for us.
I know a few Brits personally, but they've become pretty Americanized. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your country, actually... I support it, it's just when you start shit-talking your allies, that is disappointing.
American nationalism is also dying, especially with the information released during this administration (spying, Benghazi, etc.).
Our government isn't constantly in the pay of whichever company has enough money to do so
They're under the influence of corrupt politicians... I wouldn't be surprised if a company has them in their pocket as well.
You remember all that food you claim the US export to Britain? We only see a minority of your 'edible' products because the rest of it is deemed by my government to be "unfit for human consumption".
I think most of the food in London should be labeled "unfit for human consumption" LOL! Nah, I agree with them. Our country is getting fat. We need to make some big changes.
We have a chain of supermarkets here called Asda, it's owned by Walmart, but can't be called Walmart because they are run in completely different ways, solely because we have health and safety laws protecting employees here in the UK.
Walmart is the biggest company in the world. They aren't having much success in India though, or so I hear.
We have health and safety laws too.
So when I hear that the US still encourages its children to stand up and pledge allegiance to their 'great' country. Could you please explain what on Earth it is they're pledging allegiance to?
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with Liberty and Justice for all"
That's it. It's an old tradition that just kind of stuck around. I hear that they're thinking about doing away with it.
Well, maybe I should have said Australia.
Australia does too.
Well, you've yet to provide evidence for your claim that the U.S 'kicked our arses' and now you want me to provide evidence on my statement?
Do I need to? You lost. That's pretty obvious.
You lost Vietnam, the whole world knows you lost the Vietnam War. Would you agree that the Vietnamese kicked your arses?
Yes, don't remind me lol. We put up a pretty good fight though.
I like how the allied forces were represented in the film "Saving Private Ryan". I counted a grand total of 0 non-American allied troops.
It's a movie. The main characters were American. Maybe some of the background characters were British, who cares?
It especially stung when you replaced all the British amphibious landing craft with American transport on the D-Day opening scene, but then again you wouldn't want to hurt that precious American nationalism.
I'll make sure to add you guys in there in my next WW2 film.
Congratulations on not fighting!
The same could be said about Syria. Typically, people don't agree with going to war unless out of retaliation... which we did.
Not the amount you claim to.
Prove it.
Yours and Russia lack of role in the War is what made you world superpowers. You had plenty of time to build up your industry and economy while the largest Empire in the world was fighting one of the greatest wars known to man, alone.
You were fighting alone because Germany had conquered everyone around you. You might have suffered the same fate if the allied nations hadn't shown up.
What certainly made your nation a superpower is all that material 'supplied' us was actually a loan, my nation only finished paying it back a few years ago.
We weren't going to give it all away for free! We had already given you guys $3.5 billion dollars worth of equipment as a gift, we also gave equipment to the Soviet Union, France, China, as well as other allies. You guys also had to pay off a loan from Canada. The equipment that was sent to you, helped you significantly.
And then we get bombarded with "kicked your arses in the Revolutionary War" instead of 'thanks for helping us become a major world power'.
Thanks for helping us become a major world power by trying to prevent us from becoming an independent country? Yeah, thanks a lot!
A victory is typically an ass kicking in my mind, maybe not to you. We were victorious over you, maybe that's a better way of putting it.
I already disputed it, I'm not going to claim that there a no American businesses here at all, but they certainly do not have the influence you claimed they did at the start.
A larger influence than any country other than our own.
And anyway, any American influence here is probably matched over there, but I'm sure you'll see in the list of countries I've visited the U.S wasn't one of them.
I can't think of any British companies over here, to be honest. We did have a British retail store out West, but it wasn't very successful. I guess we have a few European car companies as well.
Well, your country already does like to tarnish history with prime examples being the films I listed earlier.
They're just films. How much accuracy do you expect from the guy who made E.T.? lol
Well I'll address your new point then, How can you claim that the English Language was not invented by the English?
Because it's a mix of multiple languages. Latin, Norse, French, etc. You guys get credit for spreading it, but you didn't create the entire language yourselves.
Well in that case, it was already a World War before the US joined, we already had Canada making up for North America.
You mean the country that swears allegiance to the Queen? They declared war on Germany in 1939 and didn't do hardly anything but supply you with material, most of which they bought from us, for a while.
But I thought you said that the World Wars were a European conflict and your nation did not want to get involved.
We didn't, we still had to be prepared though.
Well the fact that your President hated our Empire and actively abused the situation in World War II to try to destroy it.
I'm going to respond to your links here, rather than copying it all individually... and you can use Wikipedia if you want, I just felt like being an asshole lol. I tend to second guess Wikipedia, but a lot of the time it's pretty accurate.
Dude, don't believe that conspiracy bullshit! There are plenty of documents regarding the close friendship between FDR and Churchill. They have so many quotes about each other, but I'll just share one written by Churchill regarding Roosevelt, "I felt I was in contact with a very great man who was also a warm-hearted friend and the foremost champion of the high causes which we served". Historically, I can't think of a closer bond between our leaders than the one between FDR and Churchill. Some people enjoy painting positive things in a negative light, I don't get it.
You Americans wouldn't be hearing about our country in the first place, you're still confused over simple matters such as gun control, free healthcare, abortion and drugs.
When you've decided to put down your burgers and catch up, the rest of us will be waiting here in the civilised world.
We have abortions and we don't have drugs. But when arriving upon the issue we debated it and we resolved it, that is why you don't see our news headline screaming opinions about abortions and drugs.
In Britain we have our own culture and our own native languages unlike you so we will always be superior the US which I don't even consider a country just a united collection of independent European country, it is not your land it is the Amerindians, Britain is our native soil.
They have lost there British identity so that doesn't change much. You still have no real cultural identity of your own you just copy from other countries such as Britain, Ireland, and Italy.
That is kind of why we're called a "MIXING POT"! We're influenced by way more cultures than just European, by the way. Are you racist or something? Would you rather we be a bunch of white rednecks?
That's ridiculous, the Anglo-Saxons took over Britain after the Romans got out of there. Give us a few hundred more years and we can call ourselves natives like you.
That is different because the Anglo-Saxons bred with the native celtics, it was only the ruling class which remained pure Saxon where as the European Americans kept themselves separate entirely from the natives and actually wiped most of them out.
And furthermore the Anglo-Saxons did not take over all of Great Britain just what is now England (excluding Cornwall), Wales and Scotland were not taken by them.
Screw it! I think the Royal Family should srcap the UK! Take their money and buy some third world Central American country where the Queen can rule with an iron fist the way queens are meant to rule!
I am a British republican, I don't see the role of a Monarchy in a modern Democratic society.
Firstly they don't do anything anymore, the Queen is just an ornament, they are just a relic of the old Britain. They get millions of tax payers money to run there palaces and manor houses every year when they have done nothing for any of this, they only get it because of the Family they are born in to.
Why should they get such all of that money given to them just because they are the descendants of a long line of tyrants? It just isn't meritocratic and does not make any sense. Or all of that attention and media focus, seriously what is so interesting and amazing about the royal baby? Why is it superior to other babies just for being somebodies son?
"I am a British republican, I don't see the role of a Monarchy in a modern Democratic society."
Please explain why a "modern democratic society" is more preferable to the constitutional monarchy we currently have?
"Firstly they don't do anything anymore, the Queen is just an ornament, they are just a relic of the old Britain."
The Queen can be very influential in politics, she meets with the Prime Minister weekly and most approve of all bills which are to be made into law. The monarchy may be a relic of old Britain, but I for one found nothing wrong with old Britain, I actually find it preferable to the apprent "new Britain" we have today.
"They get millions of tax payers money to run there palaces and manor houses every year when they have done nothing for any of this, they only get it because of the Family they are born in to."
Every family is born into something, you were born into your parent's wealth. As was every else on this planet, if your argument against the monarchy is that they unjustly inherited their position then you're arguing against inheritance itself and thus are arguing against one of the fundamental aspects of a capitalist society.
And surely you must know of all they have to go through to maintain their position, to study foreign affairs, languages, culture, history, diplomacy and etiquette, to live through their lives untouched by scandal and to ensure that their own opinions do not taint our democracy. One really has to wonder whether being part of the Royal Family is as much a blessing as it is a curse.
"Why should they get such all of that money given to them just because they are the descendants of a long line of tyrants? It just isn't meritocratic and does not make any sense. Or all of that attention and media focus, seriously what is so interesting and amazing about the royal baby? Why is it superior to other babies just for being somebodies son?"
You complain about the royal family, but this equally occurs to all those celebrities who are rude, scandalous and do little for society at all.
What is interesting about these people? The tabloid covering actresses who's lack of weight leads to young girls staring themselves and editing their photos due to peer pressure or the footballers who glamourise an industry that is filled with racism, sexism and hatred, these "famous" people who apparently are "talented" and whom draw attention away from the real pioneers of our society, the scientists, doctors, servicemen and others.
At least the Royal Family value the right things and they promote aspects of our society that we should all be concerned about.
"Please explain why a "modern democratic society" is more preferable to the constitutional monarchy we currently have?"
Because a Monarchy, even a constitutional one is so out dated and archaic, Monarchies are for backward cultures, and Britain certainly is not backwards so we should have no business having them.
"The Queen can be very influential in politics, she meets with the Prime Minister weekly and most approve of all bills which are to be made into law. The monarchy may be a relic of old Britain, but I for one found nothing wrong with old Britain, I actually find it preferable to the apprent "new Britain" we have today." Well even still why does she deserve that influence just because she was born of the royal family when she has done nothing to deserve it? And in the Old Britain homosexuality was illegal, women could not vote and we were committing atrocities around the globe with out imperialism.
"Every family is born into something, you were born into your parent's wealth. As was every else on this planet, if your argument against the monarchy is that they unjustly inherited their position then you're arguing against inheritance itself and thus are arguing against one of the fundamental aspects of a capitalist society."
But the wealth I was born into was what they had earnt not money from the tax payer. Why should money that people have worked hard for be taken from them and given to some one else just because they were borne into a certain family? It is just not logical.
